Paul ryan's new budget proposal

[johnsonma]

http://budget.house.gov/UploadedFiles/PathToProsperityFY2012.pdf

He is just pulling our leg right?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Providing for the Common Defense
Streamlining Other Government Agencies
Restraining the Growth of Government by Repealing the Health Care Law
Ending Corporate Welfare
Changing Washington’s Culture of Spending
Strengthening the Social Safety Net ......................................................................................................... 38
Repairing a Broken Medicaid System
Stopping the Abuse of Medicaid by Repealing the Health Care Law
Protecting Assistance for Those in Need
Preparing the Workforce for a 21st Century Economy
Fulfilling the Mission of Health and Retirement Security for All Americans .................................... 44
Saving Medicare
Stopping the Raid on Medicare by Repealing the Health Care Law
Advancing Social Security Reforms
Pro-Growth Tax Reform .............................................................................................................................. 50
Simplifying the Tax Code for Individuals
Stopping Job-Destroying Tax Hikes by Repealing the Health Care Law



Whats wrong with this?

 

[wanamingo]

I dont really see how cutting a 1/3 of education spending would be good for our nation.

No Nasa (Not that its doing great now).

You live in a small town F*ck your roads. Theres no money to pay for it. Because we are cutting transportation and infrastructure by about 25%.

No school lunch aid programs for kids.

What about the CBO estimates that the elderly would be paying double for medicare?

From what Ive been reading it almost looks like a voucher plan thats calculated in advance to force people into private health insurance. And as JDJ so kindly pointed out the other day what about preexisting conditions? Sickle cell anemia, cancer, predisposition to disease. Under Ryans plan the cost of the same plan will go up forcing people into private insurance and I dont know if youve ever had to deal with preexisting conditions but private insurers wont touch you.

This is just putting so much power into large corporations that want nothing more than to make a buck.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Id add, alot of this is of course, OK all of this is negotiable, meaning, strike off much of it in full corrections/changes, so the other side, be it dem or rep, as these proposals wont sit well with either side in its fullness, so they too can go home banging their drum.
But I agree, we have to have some drastic changes til the economy floats us beyond our desires, and hopefully dont approach such a cutting edge in spending ever again

 

[johnsonma]

Here is the other side of the coin. There are quite a few discrepancies between his budget and the predicted budget.
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/01-31-2012_Outlook.pdf

His budget is half done, it doesn't even put in place the means by which he hopes to accomplish what he says for half the things mentioned. His budget says he is going to get the corporate tax to an even 25%, yet he doesn't even have a good plan in place to do this. In fact the main opinion people are getting from his budget is that it would actually INCREASE the deficit marginally. He decreases taxes by such an insane amount that it doesn't even match his budget cuts, which are quite substantial as well.

Not to mention that cutting education funding is just wrong, on so many levels. We are are in a rapidly developing global economy and our country's workforce has to be able compete with the all the other advanced countries. We can not be a nation of uneducated, uncompetitive people, we will never be able to compete with China, India, and other countries when it comes to cheap unskilled labor. We need a highly skilled workforce to compete and find our niche within this global economy.

 

[wanamingo]

The GOP would be happy having a poor uneducated work force. Thats just good business.

I dont want to be a nation of button pushers. America should be pumping out high quality college educated workers. Thats the ONLY way to compete with countries like India. FYI India produces more doctors every year than there are people graduating from American colleges every year regardless of the field. Think about that, and now you have a guy who wants to handicap our ability to train the next generation?

Cuts to infrastructure would force people into population centers, welfare will explode because It would be highly unpopular for any administration to have people dieing in the streets. the CBO has stated that seniors would be paying more for healthcare (Almost 50%). And as Johnsonma pointed out there is a very good chance this will increase the deficit.

 

[riser]

I like his budget. We need to cut the budget. That is a must. It will hurt, yes. We will recover. If we do not, we face absolute financial collapse and all suffer.

 

[riser]

I'm really curious to better understand their arguments and what they think and how to prevent this downfall from happening. This would be one of the things I'm very seriously intrigued about. Yet, I never really get an clear answer on their perspective to understand the viewpoint.

Great conversation to have over a beer. Get those comments flowing.

Also, I'm glad to know there are other people out there who share the same thoughts as I.

 

[johnsonma]

I'm beginning to think people like john and mingo actually want the collaspe to happen. Then it can all be re-built into the socialist utopia they so long for.

I don't half *** stuff when I set my mind to it OMG, going all the way to a communism utopia, helllllllll yeaaaaaa buddy!

 

[johnsonma]

I like his budget. We need to cut the budget. That is a must. It will hurt, yes. We will recover. If we do not, we face absolute financial collapse and all suffer.

His attempt at a budget isn't even close to what a real budget would look like, its a political ploy. Why would you cut spending by so much just to make another deficit, it makes no sense, must of been high when he thought this up.

 

[riser]

Can you point me to the pages you are referencing in his budget plan?

 

[riser]

I've seen up to page 31 also. I stopped after the 10% reduction of government workforce through attrition.

 

[johnsonma]

Page 50 for the tax reform, the budget cuts and sprinkled throughout the document. He just assumes to much which it comes to the budget, like he can predict how everything will pan out.

As for the lack of seriousness, here is an article from the New York Times, don't dismiss it because it says new york, it makes valid points.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/paul-ryans-multiple-unicorns/

 

[riser]

I don't see anything worse in the way they propose their solution than what Obama's budget does though? Everyone assumes their actions creates an increase. The CBO is notoriously horrible in predicting the impact of the changes.

His cuts aren't meant to be graceful and all rainbows and unicorns. It will hurt some. But it is for the better.

 

[johnsonma]

Ryan is also counting on a rise in revenues after a couple years of deficit from economic growth due to the tax cuts on individuals and businesses. He is an economist and historically tax cuts do stimulate economic growth/activity.

That reality predates ancient Egypt. Even Jack Kennedy did it. OMG!

It truly is hard to take the NY Times, otherwise known as one of the many mouthpieces of the Administration, seriously on anything economic. They are nothing more than White House stenographers.

Why did Bush's tax cuts not start a period of sustained economic growth then?

 

[riser]

2001, 9/11 hurt.
Housing collapse, 2004/2005, continuing on through and still going.

Bush has a series of bad events during his presidency and I think in 30-40-50 years, he'll be regarded as a better president than what people think today. He had hurricanes to deal with to boot and bad tornados.

Most presidents would have failed horribly in those events. He did well considering the amount of pressure on it. Yet, we have Obama.. who had to deal with an oil leak in the Gulf and really has failed miserably at that. Other than that.. he really has been tried on anything.. and I'm grateful because he's really not doing that good of a job with the basics.

 

[riser]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/03/21/geithner_asked_what_would_be_very_last_debt_ceiling_request_says_a_lot_would_make_you_feel_uncomfortable.html

 

[musical marv]

Providing for the Common Defense
Streamlining Other Government Agencies
Restraining the Growth of Government by Repealing the Health Care Law
Ending Corporate Welfare
Changing Washington’s Culture of Spending
Strengthening the Social Safety Net ......................................................................................................... 38
Repairing a Broken Medicaid System
Stopping the Abuse of Medicaid by Repealing the Health Care Law
Protecting Assistance for Those in Need
Preparing the Workforce for a 21st Century Economy
Fulfilling the Mission of Health and Retirement Security for All Americans .................................... 44
Saving Medicare
Stopping the Raid on Medicare by Repealing the Health Care Law
Advancing Social Security Reforms
Pro-Growth Tax Reform .............................................................................................................................. 50
Simplifying the Tax Code for Individuals
Stopping Job-Destroying Tax Hikes by Repealing the Health Care Law



Whats wrong with this?[/quotemsg he is a lot of bullshit like the rest of the Republicans. All talk and no action.

 

[riser]

Marv, you're a funny guy.

 

[johnsonma]

It did. Bush inherited a near borderline full blown recession in 2001.

Then a tiny little incident known as 9/11 happened. The objective of that little incident was to cripple our economy and they didn't do a bad job really. The airlines and financial institutions took a huge hit. Morgan Stanley alone lost like 60 floors in that tragedy. But, it didn't really work as intended because the entrepreneurship and resiliency of the American people is constantly underestimated.

Up until 2006 the US enjoyed near full employment. 5% or less unemployment is historically considered by economists on the left and right to be full employment (its not a bad rate in SimCity either). The downturn began in 2006-07 strangely coinciding with the Democrats taking over the House and Senate in the midterms.

The Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac housing bubble is THE catalyst of the financial collapse and the strong downturn in the economy that spiraled down in the aftermath. Trillions in wealth were lost; seemingly overnight.

Bull**** he did, the actual impact of the destruction of the world trade centers had very LITTLE impact economically. Entrepreneurship? Give me 5 examples of entrepreneurship being the reason that we recovered from the terrorist attacks, talk about rhetoric. The world trade center was important but it was not vital by any means.

The housing bubble created the illusion of economic stability and full employment, in the end it is the biggest reason we are where we are today. I asked you why the tax cuts didn't create SUSTAINED economic growth and you gave me half answers, the answer is because the tax cuts combined with the housing bubble and two wars were the perfect storm for a recession. They weren't the only things, but they were pretty big reasons that help lead us to where we are.

 

[johnsonma]

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/03/21/geithner_asked_what_would_be_very_last_debt_ceiling_request_says_a_lot_would_make_you_feel_uncomfortable.html

Talk about a loaded question, yeesh!

 

[johnsonma]

2001, 9/11 hurt.
Housing collapse, 2004/2005, continuing on through and still going.

Bush has a series of bad events during his presidency and I think in 30-40-50 years, he'll be regarded as a better president than what people think today. He had hurricanes to deal with to boot and bad tornados.

Most presidents would have failed horribly in those events. He did well considering the amount of pressure on it. Yet, we have Obama.. who had to deal with an oil leak in the Gulf and really has failed miserably at that. Other than that.. he really has been tried on anything.. and I'm grateful because he's really not doing that good of a job with the basics.

What the hell did Bush accomplish while he was president? NCLB? That was suppose to be his crowning achievement and it turned out to be hazardous to education throughout the nation.

He inherited the biggest economic downturn since the great depression and you think that he hasn't been tried on anything? How delusional are you? He pushed through healthcare reform that has been in the making for 20 years, yet he hasn't been tried on anything. He has been faced with more prejudice and disrespect than any president since the formation of our Country, and yet, he hasn't been tried on anything. Bush's biggest struggle was with the terrorist attack and he failed miserably at that, just like with hurricane katrina.

 

[riser]

But a valid question given his position and his remarks on fixing the economy. He has expectations that a huge amount of money will still need to be borrowed to start fixing the things this administration is doing wrong.

 

[johnsonma]

No, actually it had quite an impact. It very nearly destroyed our airline industry. If you remember there were some very large mergers of the airlines as a result in order for them to simply survive the aftermath. Tens of thousands of jobs were impacted not mention the loss of weatlh. So, your wrong there.

There was very large financial impact as well. Up until 9/11, many companies, financial insitutions, banks, etc. did not have disaster recovery procedures in place, i.e. a backup. Tons of financial transactions were lost when the towers came down. The solution to the lost records was basically a do over of September 10th, a very similar scenario to what happened in Tom Clancy's book Debt of Honor; it was Jack Ryan's idea. So again, your wrong there.

If you need examples of entrepreneurship then you are economically retarded. Just look around john. It's happening all around you. I could give you 5 million examples.

The housing bubble was the catalyst to the financial collapse. The housing bubble was mainly the brainchild of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd. If you want to put someone in prison over it, then send them.

Your completely wrong OMG, it's like you haven't even researched it. The airlines were already struggling, and mergers are a natural part of business, they are doing pretty good now. Entrepreneurship had nothing to do with us surviving the terrorist attack economically, no idea where you came up with that. Its a natural part of capitalism, why you are singling it out is beyond me.

www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31617.pdf

The housing bubble just covered up the reality that our economy was not doing very good under Bush, its that simple.

 

[johnsonma]

Your completely wrong john. The airlines are always struggling, have been for decades. The loss of revenue when the planes were grounded and the drop off in travel for years after 9/11 nearly crippled them. The loss in commerce resonated throughout the economy.

The economy on under Bush was by no means stupendous. But it also wasn't a borderline depression as propigated by the MSM day after day. We had moderate growth, and near full employment for the majority of the Bush administration.

You are lying to yourself if you thing that the economy was doing well under Bush. It was all a facade created by the housing bubble, it was not real, the truth is we were already in trouble before the housing bubble covered it up and in the end it made it exponentially worse.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/315191-why-the-airlines-are-finally-profitable-part-ii

There were other far more important issues involved with the struggles of the airlines. You are overstating the impact of the terrorist attack, out of fear maybe? That was the real crime against us, making us fear them.