PC vs. CONSOLE WAR: PC's are LOSING.

[Master Exon]

Or how when I walk into a Best Buy, or EB Games, or any other electronic outlet there is a huge decrease in available options for purchase when it comes to software and PC accessories.

I think online retailers are giving brick and mortor stores a hard time.

 

[squiZZ]

So the REAL numbers were finally released today and PC Gaming is a powerhouse in the game wars.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6196181.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;2

"In January, leading industry-research firm The NPD Group pegged 2007 US PC game sales as $911 million--a small fraction of the year's nearly $19 billion in US game sales."

However....

"According to the PCGA's Horizons report, games on the oldest active gaming platform generated around $10.7 billion in sales worldwide. Of that, $4.8 billion--nearly half--comes from online revenue, including subscriptions for massively multiplayer games such as the omnipresent World of Warcraft. Digital distribution sales hit $2 billion globally, with in-game and game portal advertising revenues reaching $800 million. (Neither of the latter two categories is included in NPD's reports, although the industry body announced in February that it would begin issuing quarterly reports on US subscriptions sometime this year.)"

/endrumor
/endthread

 

[DannyBoy27]

Good work squiZZ.
/endthread agreed

 

[llama_man]

please name one top PC title that hasn't been severely pirated.

Galactic Civilisations II?

 

[purplerat]

Galactic Civilisations II?

And how so is that? I honestly do not have any hard data on piracy, but my statement was made based on several assumptions that I feel are pretty safe.

-If people want something and can get it for free a percentage always will. The more demand the higher the amount of piracy.

-However if adequet measures are taken to stop piracy the first assumption may not hold true. ie DRM

-Games that are not desirable to a large audience or are just really bad will not suffer as much from piracy. The people behind piracy as well as the people downloading games are usually pretty sophisticated and intelligent. They're not wasting time pirating games they do not want.

I'm not very familiar Galactic Civilisations II, but if you say it's not being pirated and it's a top tier game I would have to guess that it has an effective form of DRM in place.

 

[infornography42]

Actually, Galciv II was the second big game from Stardock. The first being the surprise hit Galactic Civilizations. And it was pirated, but not as much as most other games that had the sales that it did.

Oh and it had no significant DRM. DRM actually does very little to deter piracy with the exception of MMOs and to some degree, consoles.

The main things in GalCiv II's favor are fan loyalty, that it appeals to an older more mature demographic, and that it entered the market at $40 retail. Also you could not get patches without registering it with Stardock and the patches added a lot of content.

 

[purplerat]

Doesn't Stardock work similar to Steam? You have an account which is tied to which games you have. If so that is definitely DRM, which works very well for Steam.

*edit* Woops missed:

Also you could not get patches without registering it with Stardock and the patches added a lot of content.

Yup, that's definitely DRM, and a pretty effective form to.

 

[infornography42]

Yes, Stardock IS DRM and it is effective, however it is very tame DRM as far as customer impact. First it does not limit you at all. You can install the game on as many computers as you want and play them simultaneously, you can install the game and play it without registering it on Stardock (just not patch it), and it does not require the CD in the drive.

It is not significant DRM, but it is effective. This is actually my favorite model of DRM, though I cannot reasonably expect most companies to adopt it because it gives so much control to the user. Steam works in similar ways but locks down the consumer in ways that would be more comfortable to many game companies.

 

[llama_man]

Yes, it's true that you couldn't get the "patches" without registering, but it's worth bearing in mind that the "patches" were to add a lot of additional content, not to fix a botched product. The shipped version worked perfectly and was worth the asking price, so the registration is entirely voluntary and is a bonus. Whilst this may be considered a form of DRM, making it optional and totally non-invasive is a very soft touch.

 

[llama_man]

Oh, and another benefit - if you registered the game, you could download it from the website, so no worries about losing the CD anymore either.

Personally, I think the Stardock model is excellent. The fact that the game is brilliant helps as well, of course.

 

[marshmellow1991]

Call me a pirate. Call me a theif, or call m a good customer. I will have to agree with the quote that demos can be misleading. For that matter, I DO download copies of games of such piracy sites. The only difference is, if I like the game for the first couple levels, I BUY the retail version of the game. If I dont like the game within the first few levels, start>control panel> add/remove programs>remove*game*

 

[purplerat]

Call me a pirate. Call me a theif, or call m a good customer. I will have to agree with the quote that demos can be misleading. For that matter, I DO download copies of games of such piracy sites. The only difference is, if I like the game for the first couple levels, I BUY the retail version of the game. If I dont like the game within the first few levels, start>control panel> add/remove programs>remove*game*

Here's another thread were this topic is discussed in more detail. http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/page-100109_13_50.html
Not that my opinion matters much, but why the hell would pirate a game and then pay for it? If you think you're supporting the developer you're really just fooling yourself. Pirating a game, playing it for a while, deciding you like it and then going out and buying another copy is just as big a waste of money as if you'd just bought a game and didn't really like it.

 

[master_andalf]

It's also sad that by taking all the preventative measures that they do, PC Game Programmers actually diminish the game with all their DRM stuff, so why not pirate a game that doesnt have all that on it??? I dont pirate, because I want to support the game designers, since i am aspiring to be one myself someday, but thats a reason a lot of people pirate games.

Crysis was so heavily pirated because so many people didnt want to waste 60 bucks to see if their computer could even run the game.

 

[purplerat]

Crysis was so heavily pirated because so many people didnt want to waste 60 bucks to see if their computer could even run the game.

That's a horribly misinformed statement. Obviously you have no clue and are just regurgitating some crap you heard elsewhere. Here's the truth. Crytek actually released a fully playable demo some three weeks before the game launched. And this was a title that was hyped for a couple years so everybody knew it was coming and it was going to be a beast to run. If anybody had questions about how it would run, which obviously most did, why the hell would you wait 3 weeks to pirate the game when you could have been thoroughly testing it weeks ahead of time with the demo? The demo even came with a benchmarking tool and the popular third party Crybench tool works just fine with the demo. I'm not 100% positive, put I believe you can even patch the demo to further test how that will work. The point is that Crytek went to great lengths to make sure people could try out their game before buying. But you sit there and say that's why it was pirated!

 

[master_andalf]

@ Purplerat

You are right, there was a demo before hand, i completely forgot about that (at the time my video card was crap so i didnt even bother with it). But still, I have friends who pirate a lot of stuff and when they do games its either to try it out, or to see how well their system will run the game. My apologies for any misinformed prejudgements

 

[purplerat]

At least you admitted your mistake. I've gotten into the same argument about Crysis before and had people still tell me that they pirated instead of the demo because the torrent was faster. Besides the fact that legit sites were the Crysis demo can be found, like NVidia's, are usually pretty I highly doubt that even at their slowest any demo would take 3 weeks to download (unless though dialup).

 

[tracyfearson]

Alas, I think many of you are missing the big picture and the trends that are driving things.

Allow me to share some information that will shed som perspective on the PC gaming situation.

Lets start with:

http://www.geek.com/laptop-sales-exceeded-desktop-sales-in-may/

and this

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/sto...x?guid={02E0DBFD-D157-43C1-B1FB-42F2794866C7}

Specifically:

"Gartner's Reynolds said that for 2008, he estimates notebook unit sales will climb 22.1% on year in the U.S., with notebook revenue rising 12.4%. By contrast, U.S. desktop units are expected to fall 11.6% this year, and sales are forecast to fall by 17.9%."

Yes, I have a PC desktop I built for gaming and it plays everything very well and reliably.

I also own 2 very good notebooks. Each has 2gb of ram and core2duo chips, one has an ATI and one has an Nvidia adapter. I will sum up the gaming on the notebooks by saying, it is less then satisfactory.

Like it or not, there is a gap in capabilities between a PC and a game console. There are also advantages in a notebook vs a desktop. Otherwise, notebooks would not outsell desktops in the US.

To buy a "game" notebook is still very pricey. It is cheaper to buy a notebook and a game console then a gamers notebook.

Heck, with the current notebook prices, you can buy a notebook that will do practical applications just fine and a game console for less then a gamers desktop PC.

This is why many industry people are not targeting games for a PC release. Here are the key points:

1. Development takes several years for most quality games.

2. Installed base determines potential sales.

3. PC market is more dynamic (i.e. changing) then consoles.

4. Fixed hardware and software specs speeds up development and gets you to market faster.

5. Uncertainty...... must a game for a PC be designed that when released 3 years from now it will play on a desktop, notebook, PC or MAC for the largest possible installed base?

This is why a PC is less relevant today for game designers then it once was.

I do not expect such a situation to continue. There are several things coming out that I predict will make PC as a game platform enjoy a strong revival in the near future. AMD has started a trend that I see continuing with their integrated platforms. By adding enough GPU power on an integrated platform for reasonable gaming on a desktop, I foresee that the same is just around the corner for notebooks. Once you have a stable (i.e. will still be around and compatible in 3 years) and backwards compatible graphics options (i.e. new hardware runs old stuff, just faster) in a notebook that can keep up with game consoles, PC games will flourish once again.

AMD, Nvidia and Intel have technologies out or in development that hints at this possibility.

Just think if you could by a $750 notebook that did office applications, played blu rays disks, and played games as well as an Xbox, why would you buy an xbox?

 

[Guest]

[***. *** ing *** THE PEOPLE WHO DOUBT TECHNOLOGY AND PC GAMING,THOSE OF YOU WHO DO,I PITTY YOU,AND WISH U WELL ON SPENDING MONEY OUT UR ASS FOR *** THAT SUCKS.


CIAO,Oblivion Master

 

[MxM]

ZOMBIE THREAD!

As for PC games dying - they simply shifted sales into online aria (STEAM, Impulse, D2Drive, etc) - in some sense PC games are already in the future, while with console games you still have to go and buy physical copy of the game.

 

[Komomu]

I know this is old but PC's are better than consoles in hardware....

But for consoles.... uuuummm something ,it's good i guess?

but consoles rule in............................................................................................(30 mins.) that's right they only have one type of specific hardware such as controllers with 2 analog sticks.

 

[tinmann]

Consoles are cheap compaired to what it cost to buy or build a gaming rig that will run games like Crysis smoothly and with all the bells and whistles enabled. I have an Xbox 360, a Ninetendo Wii, Playstation 1 and 2 and a old Sega Saturn ( just for Vitual Cop 1 & 2) and I hardly ever play any of them. For online games the mouse and keyboard still rule.

 

[Moonfrost]

I spend about 20+ hours a week playing PC games, and the last console I bought was an N64. So I'm probably as much far on the PC end of the spectrum as you can get. And I have to admit that I have a hard time finding anything to play these days.

Consoles do seem to be massively outpacing the PC, and it's a real shame. In my opinion gaming has fallen into the same routine as Hollywood blockbusters. It's about generic mass-marketed entertainment with no regard to any artistic value or true innovation in gameplay.

To me, consoles have always felt like advanced toys more than something for serious gaming. Nobody I know that has one has ever shown me anything to dispel that idea. When I think of the few games I've really enjoyed in recent years, I can't help but think of how several of them would have been better without the influence and limitations imposed by consoles being so dominant.

Ultimately, I think the problem isn't that most good games are now made for consoles instead of PCs. The real problem is that as consoles have become dominant, hardly any really good games are being made at all anymore. Most innovations are ones that are in the direction of making gaming into fun toys for the masses, not a serious and legitimate form of media.

Sorry if this is way too late, but it seems this thread is still getting hits...

Anyway, the only thing I was going to say that calling consoles "advanced toys" is absolutely ridiculous, and really shows your ignorance about them...it almost sounds to me the N64 was the ONLY console you had/played (which had more kid's/simple games than most consoles).

 

[randomizer]

This thread really needs to die now.