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I'll tell you this. My father, having owned a Mac since the Lisa, and used one nearly every day since, as well as being forced to use a PC at work; also my Mom, who has a Mac for personal use with Windows on it, and is an accountant and uses a PC all day. BOTH of them are complete computer noobs, and know NOTHING about their operation.
Even simple things like installing a printer driver update ends in me getting a phone call "why do I need this." Then NEVER upgrade their software, especially when it costs money, have no clue about the trouble of maintaining data across software versions (especially in things like quicken) when they fail to at least buy every other version, and never know what to do when someone sends them a file they can't open.
Even as simple as time machine is, they ask question on how to set it up. I even found out Dad was paying a website to convert files to PDF for him for use in his business even though the Mac did that out of the box for free...
As complete noobs as they are, having no clue about security (they only have antivirus because I bought it and installed it for them), they do know this: A website should NEVER, EVER ask for your keychain password. If you need a plug-in to watch a video or open a file someone sends you, e-mail them back and tell them to convert it to a "common" format. If a website needs a plug-in other than Java, Flash, or silverlight, LEAVE. And they now the never click on a link to a site without mousing over it to see that the link is actually to the same place it claims to be (and when in doubt, they browse to it by typing in the site name instead of clicking).
On Windows, there are SO many things that can effect your PC simply because you arrive at a site. Any number of applications can spawn trojans, download and install other apps without your knowledge, Apps can run from inside e-mail messages, critical system files are accessible by various applications, once inside, and app can do almost anything to the system. Inside the Mac, with Root disabled and a Unix based permissions model, combined with Apple's strict controls on how and when certain programs can run (and making them show up in various monitors and in the tray), even if someone had a proof of concept virus, and could trick a user (who would have to be a bigger noob than my parents), it still would be governed by permissions and the kernel, and likely it would show up dancing in the dock saying "Hi, I'm a virus and I'm currently running"
The Mac may have a higher "out of the box" footprint for penetration, having flash, java, etc preloaded. Great, who cares. Show me a PC someone owns that also doesn't have that installed on it within a few hours. Comparing 2 stock, unmodified OS is POINTLESS, because NO ONE RUNS IT THAT WAY. You take any PC that's been in operation for 3 months and compare it to a Mac that's been in operation for the same time. Equip both with common apps. Here's what you'll find likely to be the case: Give both of them a comparable AV and AS client.
In Windows, the end-user has likely disabled (or reduced) UAC. They're running with a simple password or none at all and running as admin. There will be half a dozen plug-ins and at least 3 browser bars installed. Their e-mail will have auto-preview turned on (since it's the default configuration), and they'll have passwords saved for a dozen sites in their browser's simple and insecure password manager (from which hackers can read passwords simply by spoofing a URL). They may have current Windows patches, but likely not Office, and certainly not all their drivers. Multiple apps launch to the tray at startup, including at least 1 that connects to the net automatically. If they have backups configured at all, they have no idea if they're running right or not, and have never made an image backup to external media. After 3 months of use, if you trigger a screen pop security alert, they don't read it and just click OK as they all look the same and are half cryptic anyway.
The Mac will have 100% up to date software and drivers across the board. Even office is updated if they installed it. Root will still be disabled, and the user will have a password for each account. They'll probably have a second browser in addition to safari, but there should be a very limited number of plug-ins installed, if there's any toolbar it's just Yahoo and only if they have FireFox installed. Their saved website passwords are locked inside keychain encrypted. The firewall is still on, as are all OS alerts. Very few programs, if any, automatically launch. backups are running, image backups are not required due to the nature of the OS recovery system. If you trigger a security screen pop, they pay attention to what type it is as they look diferent depending on the action, and have a different response required based on what triggered it (launching a file downloaded from the net, a website requesting a password, loading a program that's never een run before, etc), and if it asks for their password, they cross check what they just did before they enter it.
Fact is, lots of people have Pwned a Mac, and there was a pretty big bot net out there created by al the people downloading a torrent of iWork that was infected. However, there is no such thing as a single ITW Mac Virus. For all the surface of attack, for all the Proofs of concept, there is not a single automated program out there infecting Macs. There are a few sites in the dark corners of the web that try to steal identity, but usually that requires the user actually entering the data personally (not swiped from keychain), and usually the only way to get to that site in the first place is to be a victim of social engineering, not a hack. Even the Pwn concepts out there have yet to be exploited because great, you got in, but you still can't DO anything like install a virus, change startup services, or screw with the machine since you can't get root access if it's not enabled, and you don't have the password to do that. Manual hacks yes, but there are no automated virus-like apps. You have to go to a site, download one and manually install it (as part of another app typically) to infect a Mac.
Even simple things like installing a printer driver update ends in me getting a phone call "why do I need this." Then NEVER upgrade their software, especially when it costs money, have no clue about the trouble of maintaining data across software versions (especially in things like quicken) when they fail to at least buy every other version, and never know what to do when someone sends them a file they can't open.
Even as simple as time machine is, they ask question on how to set it up. I even found out Dad was paying a website to convert files to PDF for him for use in his business even though the Mac did that out of the box for free...
As complete noobs as they are, having no clue about security (they only have antivirus because I bought it and installed it for them), they do know this: A website should NEVER, EVER ask for your keychain password. If you need a plug-in to watch a video or open a file someone sends you, e-mail them back and tell them to convert it to a "common" format. If a website needs a plug-in other than Java, Flash, or silverlight, LEAVE. And they now the never click on a link to a site without mousing over it to see that the link is actually to the same place it claims to be (and when in doubt, they browse to it by typing in the site name instead of clicking).
On Windows, there are SO many things that can effect your PC simply because you arrive at a site. Any number of applications can spawn trojans, download and install other apps without your knowledge, Apps can run from inside e-mail messages, critical system files are accessible by various applications, once inside, and app can do almost anything to the system. Inside the Mac, with Root disabled and a Unix based permissions model, combined with Apple's strict controls on how and when certain programs can run (and making them show up in various monitors and in the tray), even if someone had a proof of concept virus, and could trick a user (who would have to be a bigger noob than my parents), it still would be governed by permissions and the kernel, and likely it would show up dancing in the dock saying "Hi, I'm a virus and I'm currently running"
The Mac may have a higher "out of the box" footprint for penetration, having flash, java, etc preloaded. Great, who cares. Show me a PC someone owns that also doesn't have that installed on it within a few hours. Comparing 2 stock, unmodified OS is POINTLESS, because NO ONE RUNS IT THAT WAY. You take any PC that's been in operation for 3 months and compare it to a Mac that's been in operation for the same time. Equip both with common apps. Here's what you'll find likely to be the case: Give both of them a comparable AV and AS client.
In Windows, the end-user has likely disabled (or reduced) UAC. They're running with a simple password or none at all and running as admin. There will be half a dozen plug-ins and at least 3 browser bars installed. Their e-mail will have auto-preview turned on (since it's the default configuration), and they'll have passwords saved for a dozen sites in their browser's simple and insecure password manager (from which hackers can read passwords simply by spoofing a URL). They may have current Windows patches, but likely not Office, and certainly not all their drivers. Multiple apps launch to the tray at startup, including at least 1 that connects to the net automatically. If they have backups configured at all, they have no idea if they're running right or not, and have never made an image backup to external media. After 3 months of use, if you trigger a screen pop security alert, they don't read it and just click OK as they all look the same and are half cryptic anyway.
The Mac will have 100% up to date software and drivers across the board. Even office is updated if they installed it. Root will still be disabled, and the user will have a password for each account. They'll probably have a second browser in addition to safari, but there should be a very limited number of plug-ins installed, if there's any toolbar it's just Yahoo and only if they have FireFox installed. Their saved website passwords are locked inside keychain encrypted. The firewall is still on, as are all OS alerts. Very few programs, if any, automatically launch. backups are running, image backups are not required due to the nature of the OS recovery system. If you trigger a security screen pop, they pay attention to what type it is as they look diferent depending on the action, and have a different response required based on what triggered it (launching a file downloaded from the net, a website requesting a password, loading a program that's never een run before, etc), and if it asks for their password, they cross check what they just did before they enter it.
Fact is, lots of people have Pwned a Mac, and there was a pretty big bot net out there created by al the people downloading a torrent of iWork that was infected. However, there is no such thing as a single ITW Mac Virus. For all the surface of attack, for all the Proofs of concept, there is not a single automated program out there infecting Macs. There are a few sites in the dark corners of the web that try to steal identity, but usually that requires the user actually entering the data personally (not swiped from keychain), and usually the only way to get to that site in the first place is to be a victim of social engineering, not a hack. Even the Pwn concepts out there have yet to be exploited because great, you got in, but you still can't DO anything like install a virus, change startup services, or screw with the machine since you can't get root access if it's not enabled, and you don't have the password to do that. Manual hacks yes, but there are no automated virus-like apps. You have to go to a site, download one and manually install it (as part of another app typically) to infect a Mac.
[citation][nom]False_Dmitry_II[/nom]Definite solution to security: Linux also has a crapton of permissions lockdown. [/citation]
Um... Are you not Aware that OS X is a UNIX OS, fully certified, and that HFS+ uses unix security? Os X is more secure than a common configured Linux box, especially since most Linux users have NOT disabled root (and su- to it regularly if not run as it).
Um... Are you not Aware that OS X is a UNIX OS, fully certified, and that HFS+ uses unix security? Os X is more secure than a common configured Linux box, especially since most Linux users have NOT disabled root (and su- to it regularly if not run as it).
[citation][nom]False_Dmitry_II[/nom]Definite solution to security: Linux also has a crapton of permissions lockdown. [/citation]
Um... Are you not Aware that OS X is a UNIX OS, fully certified, and that HFS+ uses unix security? Os X is more secure than a common configured Linux box, especially since most Linux users have NOT disabled root (and su- to it regularly if not run as it).
Um... Are you not Aware that OS X is a UNIX OS, fully certified, and that HFS+ uses unix security? Os X is more secure than a common configured Linux box, especially since most Linux users have NOT disabled root (and su- to it regularly if not run as it).
drip50291
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Windows is hands down the most secure OS. But ppl love to hack it. Even today with more users on windows and more malware, viruses, and such it is still the most secure. It comes down to the user downloading and installing bad things. The point of no return is the block or allow popup. Windows brings its guns to fight until YOU THE USER presses allow. Then windows drops its guard BECAUSE YOU SAID SO! Point being its idiot users and total noobs that create infected computers NOT an unsecured OS. (Well in Macs case yes, because apple is just a terrible company)
[citation][nom]g-systems[/nom]"I would've bought a Mac if there was more software support, but I decided on a PC since I can do just about anything that I want with it, and if it get's broke, I can find inexpensive repair shops." [/citation]
Seriously, still on that old game huh?
First off, I bought my wife a MacBook Pro explicitly because it CAN run windows, in a VM in real time via Coherence, so she can run the very few Windows Apps her school requires her to have, and a few games not ported to Mac as well. However, OS X is her daily, primary OS, and most days Windows never even boots. Software support, really? Its a non-issue, and hasn't been for years. Over the next few years as we replace PC licenses with Mac licenses, Windows will be used even less, and her school is formally adopting open source and starting next year will be offering both Mac and PC software for the new smartboards and will finally vbe off IE6 for the school sites.
As for "finding inexpensive repair" first of all there's no such thing as inexpensive PC repairs unless you do it yourself once the machine is out of warranty. 2 hours labor for a 3 year old machine, plus parts? buy a new, more powerful machine for less that that... As for Warranties, you can bring a Mac to any number of places, including Bestbuy, Apple Stores, and local Apple retailers, and most repairs are done on site within a day. Apple warranties are cheaper across the board for 3 year support, their phone support is AMAZING. they actually do something other than say "reformat then call us back if you still have an issue") and will help with just about anything, including non-break/fix support issues like "how do I do this..."
I've kept VERY good track of the costs associated with PC hardware maintenance and repair, and done exhaustive 3, 4, and 5 year TCO and budget analysis of PC (both vendor and in-house built) and Mac repair. Macs cost about the same up front for comparable hardware. the Mac Tax is gone, check out a 27" iMac to even custom built PCs, a 13" white macbook to any machine with a 9400GPU or better (screw intel GMA if you;re running anything other than Linux nowadays), or a 15" pro to a professional grade notebook. Mac is cheaper acrtoss the board. The 27" iMac in particular is currently $380 cheaper than PARTS on new egg, excluding speakers, camera, keyboard, mouse, OS, and IR sensors. A PC requires typically $600 in software licenses over it's 3-5 year lifespan, and is almost guaranteed to need a RAM upgrade. OS X, even if you buy Office for it, typically requires under $400 in licenses over 5 years, and may or may not require a RAM upgrade (OS X has maintained the same performance or better on the same hardware since OS 10.3) Finally, a 5 year old Mac is likely to sell on eBay for 1/3 to 1/2 it's original purchase price. I can't get 30% of the price of a PC after 1 year, and I can't typically get more than $50 after 4. TCO of a Mac is FAR less, often half the cost of a comparable PC over 5 years. Yes, out of warranty, the mainboard is an expensive repair if it has a soldered on processor. It's equally expensive in a PC notebook. You don't out-of-warranty replace failed mainboards that far out in a PC, just RAM, HDDs, etc, which are commodity parts on either side of this fence. Macs cost the same to have someone else repair as PCs in most cases. The savings over it's lifetime, comparable starting price (within $200 +/- for the same specs, and we are talking matching specs to needs, not buying the lowst price POS you can get that's useless for your needs), and adding its resale value, the Mac is simple a much cheaper system, and with the money saved, you port your Windows license over to parallels and run the non-native apps you need and call it done.
For reference. I've sold the following on eBay:
iMac 3G (blue, 333MHz slot load), 5 years old, $650.
iMac 4G (lamp) 1GHz 768MB, 5.5 years old, $780 plus shipping.
iMac G5 20", 3 years old, $520 plus shipping.
iBook 14" G4, 3.5 years old, $400. (at a GARRAGE SALE!)
MBP 15" Core 2, 2.5 yrs old, $940
Power Computing PowerTower Pro w/ 604 and 486 processors (VM platform) 6 years old, $900
In contrast:
Gateway 2000 PIII 600, 3 years old, $75.
IBM thinkPad w/ P4 and 1GB, 2.5 years old, $100.
Dell gaming computer (pre XPS line, can't remember name) P4 w/HT and ATI graphics, 2.5 years old, $90.
Custom built rig, Core2duo custom overclocked, 2GB RAM, dual raptor drives, SLI GPU, initial cost to build just shy of $2,000, 2.5 years later only $260.
My current rig, only 18 months old, I'm planning on selling next month to get an iMac 27" once they get the screens fixed, Core quad extreme, 4GB DDRIII, Dual ATI 4850s, RAID 5 data drives (with hot space, 2.25 TB presented) and dual high performance OS drives in a stripe (250GB each). I pulled it off eBay with 1 hour left when the high bid was only $190. i have a standing offer from a good friend for $400 for it. Pathetic resale pricing. Nearly every single system both more expensive than a Mac I had at the same time, sold younger in it's days, and not one sold for more than a cheap mac notebook at a garrage sale...
At the office, at my previous firm, we used to annually offer used machines coming out of rotation to employees in a blind bid system. We'd sell a couple hundred used PCs each year, several servers, and a several dozen macs. Every time, the macs would get 2-3 times the bid value of the PCs. Back in 2006, we were surprised to find out that 26 Macs actually sold for more total money than 114 PCs. 2 of the Mac towers actually took in more money than any of the Dell servers did....
The Macbook Pro 15" I just bought in November btw: $1820, including the 2.66, 4GB RAM, 7200RPM drive, 9400/9600M GT GPUs, dual radio Wireless N Mimo 2.4/5GHz, Bluetooth, SD reader, webcam, 7 hour battery (and yes, with wifi on, it regularly lasts more than 6 hours on a charge!), a copy of parallels 5, and the display port adapter? That was $240 less than the same equipped Dell, which would have been a 16" machine made of plastic, no IPS display panel, and only a 3 hour battery, no backlit keyboard, that weighed 2 lbs more. It was $100 less than a similar HP, but the HP has a slower CPU and a slower RAM bus, and only about 100GB less storage, with all the Dell's limitations as well. Acer had nothing similar at any price. I expect to sell this mac in 2-3 years for close to $1,000. That means my 3 year cost average for a MBP is about $850 for hardware. I can't buy ANY notebook with a GPU in any class for that price.
Seriously, still on that old game huh?
First off, I bought my wife a MacBook Pro explicitly because it CAN run windows, in a VM in real time via Coherence, so she can run the very few Windows Apps her school requires her to have, and a few games not ported to Mac as well. However, OS X is her daily, primary OS, and most days Windows never even boots. Software support, really? Its a non-issue, and hasn't been for years. Over the next few years as we replace PC licenses with Mac licenses, Windows will be used even less, and her school is formally adopting open source and starting next year will be offering both Mac and PC software for the new smartboards and will finally vbe off IE6 for the school sites.
As for "finding inexpensive repair" first of all there's no such thing as inexpensive PC repairs unless you do it yourself once the machine is out of warranty. 2 hours labor for a 3 year old machine, plus parts? buy a new, more powerful machine for less that that... As for Warranties, you can bring a Mac to any number of places, including Bestbuy, Apple Stores, and local Apple retailers, and most repairs are done on site within a day. Apple warranties are cheaper across the board for 3 year support, their phone support is AMAZING. they actually do something other than say "reformat then call us back if you still have an issue") and will help with just about anything, including non-break/fix support issues like "how do I do this..."
I've kept VERY good track of the costs associated with PC hardware maintenance and repair, and done exhaustive 3, 4, and 5 year TCO and budget analysis of PC (both vendor and in-house built) and Mac repair. Macs cost about the same up front for comparable hardware. the Mac Tax is gone, check out a 27" iMac to even custom built PCs, a 13" white macbook to any machine with a 9400GPU or better (screw intel GMA if you;re running anything other than Linux nowadays), or a 15" pro to a professional grade notebook. Mac is cheaper acrtoss the board. The 27" iMac in particular is currently $380 cheaper than PARTS on new egg, excluding speakers, camera, keyboard, mouse, OS, and IR sensors. A PC requires typically $600 in software licenses over it's 3-5 year lifespan, and is almost guaranteed to need a RAM upgrade. OS X, even if you buy Office for it, typically requires under $400 in licenses over 5 years, and may or may not require a RAM upgrade (OS X has maintained the same performance or better on the same hardware since OS 10.3) Finally, a 5 year old Mac is likely to sell on eBay for 1/3 to 1/2 it's original purchase price. I can't get 30% of the price of a PC after 1 year, and I can't typically get more than $50 after 4. TCO of a Mac is FAR less, often half the cost of a comparable PC over 5 years. Yes, out of warranty, the mainboard is an expensive repair if it has a soldered on processor. It's equally expensive in a PC notebook. You don't out-of-warranty replace failed mainboards that far out in a PC, just RAM, HDDs, etc, which are commodity parts on either side of this fence. Macs cost the same to have someone else repair as PCs in most cases. The savings over it's lifetime, comparable starting price (within $200 +/- for the same specs, and we are talking matching specs to needs, not buying the lowst price POS you can get that's useless for your needs), and adding its resale value, the Mac is simple a much cheaper system, and with the money saved, you port your Windows license over to parallels and run the non-native apps you need and call it done.
For reference. I've sold the following on eBay:
iMac 3G (blue, 333MHz slot load), 5 years old, $650.
iMac 4G (lamp) 1GHz 768MB, 5.5 years old, $780 plus shipping.
iMac G5 20", 3 years old, $520 plus shipping.
iBook 14" G4, 3.5 years old, $400. (at a GARRAGE SALE!)
MBP 15" Core 2, 2.5 yrs old, $940
Power Computing PowerTower Pro w/ 604 and 486 processors (VM platform) 6 years old, $900
In contrast:
Gateway 2000 PIII 600, 3 years old, $75.
IBM thinkPad w/ P4 and 1GB, 2.5 years old, $100.
Dell gaming computer (pre XPS line, can't remember name) P4 w/HT and ATI graphics, 2.5 years old, $90.
Custom built rig, Core2duo custom overclocked, 2GB RAM, dual raptor drives, SLI GPU, initial cost to build just shy of $2,000, 2.5 years later only $260.
My current rig, only 18 months old, I'm planning on selling next month to get an iMac 27" once they get the screens fixed, Core quad extreme, 4GB DDRIII, Dual ATI 4850s, RAID 5 data drives (with hot space, 2.25 TB presented) and dual high performance OS drives in a stripe (250GB each). I pulled it off eBay with 1 hour left when the high bid was only $190. i have a standing offer from a good friend for $400 for it. Pathetic resale pricing. Nearly every single system both more expensive than a Mac I had at the same time, sold younger in it's days, and not one sold for more than a cheap mac notebook at a garrage sale...
At the office, at my previous firm, we used to annually offer used machines coming out of rotation to employees in a blind bid system. We'd sell a couple hundred used PCs each year, several servers, and a several dozen macs. Every time, the macs would get 2-3 times the bid value of the PCs. Back in 2006, we were surprised to find out that 26 Macs actually sold for more total money than 114 PCs. 2 of the Mac towers actually took in more money than any of the Dell servers did....
The Macbook Pro 15" I just bought in November btw: $1820, including the 2.66, 4GB RAM, 7200RPM drive, 9400/9600M GT GPUs, dual radio Wireless N Mimo 2.4/5GHz, Bluetooth, SD reader, webcam, 7 hour battery (and yes, with wifi on, it regularly lasts more than 6 hours on a charge!), a copy of parallels 5, and the display port adapter? That was $240 less than the same equipped Dell, which would have been a 16" machine made of plastic, no IPS display panel, and only a 3 hour battery, no backlit keyboard, that weighed 2 lbs more. It was $100 less than a similar HP, but the HP has a slower CPU and a slower RAM bus, and only about 100GB less storage, with all the Dell's limitations as well. Acer had nothing similar at any price. I expect to sell this mac in 2-3 years for close to $1,000. That means my 3 year cost average for a MBP is about $850 for hardware. I can't buy ANY notebook with a GPU in any class for that price.
Ok. This is the second Tom's Hardware article in as many days where you guys say "his or her" instead of "their". It's a different author too...
drip50291
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1st of all your significant other doesn't know much about computers to begin with so of course she's gonna use a mac its easier to use thus its for noobs.
2nd. PC repair? YOUR ON TOMSHARDWARE WE ALL DO OUR OWN PC REPAIRS NOOB. And yea its gonna take a day depending on the problem not the OS. I worked at circuit city and most computers would be done in an hour. They just tell you a day in case something happens and it just works for everyone's schedule like that. O and there's far more places to bring a PC than a MAC.
3rd. So you keep very good track of parts pricing? DO U REMEMBER WHEN APPLE CHARGE a 400% PRICE INCREASE FOR ALL THERE UPGRADES?!
4th. You cant compare certain companys (Dell) and have them represent windows. There are so many companies that sell windows machines. One of them is bound to suck (Dell, Acer, Gateway..just to name some familiars)
5th. Hardware wise..dude i cant even spec out a G5 pro with amazing graphics: COMPATIBILITY REVOLVES AROUND WINDOWS. Putting windows on a mac doesn't help your point that MACs are better. If you need to put the competitions OS on your system your obviously not doing something right.
I can always build a PC from newegg with more features better performance and less money than buying a shitty Apple.
6th. And we're talking about security here buddy. Dont bring your fanboy crap into windows territory.
2nd. PC repair? YOUR ON TOMSHARDWARE WE ALL DO OUR OWN PC REPAIRS NOOB. And yea its gonna take a day depending on the problem not the OS. I worked at circuit city and most computers would be done in an hour. They just tell you a day in case something happens and it just works for everyone's schedule like that. O and there's far more places to bring a PC than a MAC.
3rd. So you keep very good track of parts pricing? DO U REMEMBER WHEN APPLE CHARGE a 400% PRICE INCREASE FOR ALL THERE UPGRADES?!
4th. You cant compare certain companys (Dell) and have them represent windows. There are so many companies that sell windows machines. One of them is bound to suck (Dell, Acer, Gateway..just to name some familiars)
5th. Hardware wise..dude i cant even spec out a G5 pro with amazing graphics: COMPATIBILITY REVOLVES AROUND WINDOWS. Putting windows on a mac doesn't help your point that MACs are better. If you need to put the competitions OS on your system your obviously not doing something right.
I can always build a PC from newegg with more features better performance and less money than buying a shitty Apple.
6th. And we're talking about security here buddy. Dont bring your fanboy crap into windows territory.
eyemaster
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Lol, I hope the last one was a joke! lol! --- "Dino Dai Zovi, independent researcher: "Neither. Consumers should see if Apple's iPad or the forthcoming devices based on Google's Chrome OS suit their needs because both are significantly more secure than any general-purpose desktop system, Linux, Mac, or PC.""
silentbobdc
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In response to zelannii - most of the people here do their own PC repairs/upgrades and I'm not sure when you got your numbers but the PC I just build would have cost more than double to buy from Apple (priced this week via NCIX/NewEgg and the Apple official website). I can add a 1TB hdd to a mac for $300 or buy it and install it in my PC for $90 - A DVD burner is $100 vs ~$28 on sale at any online retailer, ram prices are double to triple RETAIL for generic low speed gear. As for laptops I'm not sure you even tried to find something good. ASUS has a nice G51Jx-A1 model that goes for under $1500 with 6gb a core i7 processor, Nvidia GTS 360 1gb vid card and a 500gb 7200rpm disc as well as tons of other features.
If you're gonna defend mac at least try to make yourself sound reasonable and make your prices honest.
Oh and good luck with that warranty. God forbid you smoke (not that I do, its a filthy habit) but as we've seen posted here and around the web, apple will void that "cheaper warranty" you bragged about quicker than you can say "trendy douchebag". As for me, the parts I built my rig with all have 3-year or lifetime warranties that cost me ZERO dollars.
If you're gonna defend mac at least try to make yourself sound reasonable and make your prices honest.
Oh and good luck with that warranty. God forbid you smoke (not that I do, its a filthy habit) but as we've seen posted here and around the web, apple will void that "cheaper warranty" you bragged about quicker than you can say "trendy douchebag". As for me, the parts I built my rig with all have 3-year or lifetime warranties that cost me ZERO dollars.
ZEPd3Z
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I don't know why there is less malware on macs, When generally mac Users Have money and are supposedly less technically knowledgeable about their Computers compared to PC Users... maybe because most hackers are PC's and Hate MAC's that they wouldn't even touch the stuff?
It's actually even less of a market. In the US Apple have about 10% market share. Worldwide that drops to somewhere between 4 and 5% though.
Targeting Dell or HP would make more sense than targeting Apple if you go by market share.
Targeting Dell or HP would make more sense than targeting Apple if you go by market share.
[citation][nom]mayne92[/nom]Stay away from the porn sites 
[/citation]
There are a fair share of attacks lurking around in adult oriented sites but the most prevelent location for viruses and other exploits are circulating through file sharing networks. This includes torrents file sharing and Frostwire, Limewire, and similar networks. I quit using the Frostire type method of sharing since there was a very high rate of content that had viruses bundled within it. Folks if you download a song or movie or any other media file use common sense because you have be aware that no media file would only be 100 kilobytes in size. A typical song is a minimum of 3 mbs and any media file less than 300kb is nothing but a virus.
Keep a good AV program running and don't be stupid and you will never get a virus.
[/citation]There are a fair share of attacks lurking around in adult oriented sites but the most prevelent location for viruses and other exploits are circulating through file sharing networks. This includes torrents file sharing and Frostwire, Limewire, and similar networks. I quit using the Frostire type method of sharing since there was a very high rate of content that had viruses bundled within it. Folks if you download a song or movie or any other media file use common sense because you have be aware that no media file would only be 100 kilobytes in size. A typical song is a minimum of 3 mbs and any media file less than 300kb is nothing but a virus.
Keep a good AV program running and don't be stupid and you will never get a virus.
Microsoft should pay guys in Russia to code viruses specifically for Macs. Then when they come up with a crushingly powerful virus that completely debilitates all Macs, Microsoft should come out with a well timed commercial making fun of the issue where Justin Long is in a full body cast and the role of the PC is played by The Rock.
MAYBE that will drive Apple's ego down and force them to start lowering prices to attract clients! Then consumers will have more choices. Hooray!
(I'm obviously kidding I don't think Microsoft should pay Russians to write Mac viruses... the Chinese can do it for less)
MAYBE that will drive Apple's ego down and force them to start lowering prices to attract clients! Then consumers will have more choices. Hooray!
(I'm obviously kidding I don't think Microsoft should pay Russians to write Mac viruses... the Chinese can do it for less)
- Jul 16, 2009
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So basically Mac security is founded on being unpopular.
If Mac and PC occupied exactly 50% each of the market I wonder, are there actually that many tree-hugging hippy nimrods in the world?
If Mac and PC occupied exactly 50% each of the market I wonder, are there actually that many tree-hugging hippy nimrods in the world?
The short version: they are the same, because users are fucking idiots. Howsabout repeating the question, specifically excluding "click on theze appz0rs to see pr0nzors!" vulnerabilities? How much of a "security expert" can any of the above be, given that neither "limited user accounts" or ACTIVEX(FFS) were mentioned?
[citation][nom]g-systems[/nom]The "but" and "if" are very important articles of a sentence.For instance: "I would've bought a Mac if there was more software support, but I decided on a PC since I can do just about anything that I want with it, and if it get's broke, I can find inexpensive repair shops."
...[/citation]
You didn't really get my point. What I was trying to say is it doesn't really matter "if Macs got more marketshare". They don't and therefore less people target them. Period. If I was gonna make an online money transfer for example I sure as hell wouldn't use Windows. I'd rather use a Mac. Or the best option of all, a Linux live-cd. And since I brought it up I think people underestimate the value of Linux. Getting free of Windows crackers legion and Macs ridiculously overpriced stuff.
...[/citation]
You didn't really get my point. What I was trying to say is it doesn't really matter "if Macs got more marketshare". They don't and therefore less people target them. Period. If I was gonna make an online money transfer for example I sure as hell wouldn't use Windows. I'd rather use a Mac. Or the best option of all, a Linux live-cd. And since I brought it up I think people underestimate the value of Linux. Getting free of Windows crackers legion and Macs ridiculously overpriced stuff.
milktea
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- Dec 16, 2009
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When there's a will, there's a way. When there's a security opportunity, there's hackers. And there are different type of hackers. Ones that just want to make a statement, but does not steal. The other evil ones steal from you without you knowing. Since Windows market share is huge, hackers would perfer to attacked it to make a statement. On the otherhand, attacking a MAC is less desirable just to make a statement; small market. Therefore, that only leaves the evil hackers for the MAC. So MAC users be warned! Watch what's going through your router.
datawrecker
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- Sep 10, 2009
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Every time someone mentions that Macs do not have software support they fire back with, "But, we can load Windows making the software available to us." What you do not realize is every time you say that you only strengthen the argument that software support for Macs is crap. If there was real support you would not have to load Windows into your Mac. What
I like about Microsoft is that they have managed to convince Mac users to install Windows on the hardware. Thus expanding their reach. Microsoft has its main products in the door at Apple. Apple has a phone...
Apple Genius? I think not.
I like about Microsoft is that they have managed to convince Mac users to install Windows on the hardware. Thus expanding their reach. Microsoft has its main products in the door at Apple. Apple has a phone...
Apple Genius? I think not.
boredreader
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- Jan 14, 2010
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[citation] If I was gonna make an online money transfer for example I sure as hell wouldn't use Windows. I'd rather use a Mac. Or the best option of all, a Linux live-cd. [/citation]
I don't see how you a think MAC or a Linux Live-CD would be more secure for an online transaction over Windows. I can guess you are not aware that performing online transaction requires a client software "browsers" that interacts with a server which will require authentication, certification, and other means of security measure that a particular service employs.
I would assume that based on your chain of thoughts, it is more secure for you to shop newegg from a MAC than it is on a Windows PC?
I think not!
I don't see how you a think MAC or a Linux Live-CD would be more secure for an online transaction over Windows. I can guess you are not aware that performing online transaction requires a client software "browsers" that interacts with a server which will require authentication, certification, and other means of security measure that a particular service employs.
I would assume that based on your chain of thoughts, it is more secure for you to shop newegg from a MAC than it is on a Windows PC?
I think not!
G-Systems
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- Feb 2, 2010
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[citation][nom]Jarmo[/nom]You're just enforcing his point. None of your examples seems to suggest that adding an "if" makes it so, or that you'd believe it.[/citation]
Beautiful! And just in case you're wondering, I am the one who thumbed you up...
What I am ultimately alluding to--minus the sarcasm, of course--is that the assertion that Macs are safer because less people use them is true. However, if there is a comparison between which is more secure, the victor is Windows.
To rest on Macs being safer because less people use them is truly a misconception. This isn't an article about the opinions of users--these are security experts; these aren't pundits.
Headline: "PC-vs-Mac in Security"
For the user not concerned about security, but concerned about the prevalence of threats, Mac would be the better buy. In the end if you're a professional with no concern for games nor compatibility with anyone else but what Apple has to offer, then Mac is a perfect choice for you. Being that a good percentage of the population of the world use Windows-based Personal Computers, then Mac may not be the way to go.
But that's beside the point.
Ultimately, what I am saying is that in regards to security against bad software, Windows has more support and more experience. Thus, Windows is more SECURE...
I can acquiesce to the reality that Mac is SAFER...but Windows is more SECURE... In the end, Mac's "safety" is no match for Win's "support."
--Happy Posting!!
Beautiful! And just in case you're wondering, I am the one who thumbed you up
...What I am ultimately alluding to--minus the sarcasm, of course--is that the assertion that Macs are safer because less people use them is true. However, if there is a comparison between which is more secure, the victor is Windows.
To rest on Macs being safer because less people use them is truly a misconception. This isn't an article about the opinions of users--these are security experts; these aren't pundits.
Headline: "PC-vs-Mac in Security"
For the user not concerned about security, but concerned about the prevalence of threats, Mac would be the better buy. In the end if you're a professional with no concern for games nor compatibility with anyone else but what Apple has to offer, then Mac is a perfect choice for you. Being that a good percentage of the population of the world use Windows-based Personal Computers, then Mac may not be the way to go.
But that's beside the point.
Ultimately, what I am saying is that in regards to security against bad software, Windows has more support and more experience. Thus, Windows is more SECURE...
I can acquiesce to the reality that Mac is SAFER...but Windows is more SECURE... In the end, Mac's "safety" is no match for Win's "support."
--Happy Posting!!
G-Systems
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- Feb 2, 2010
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[citation][nom]znegval[/nom]You didn't really get my point. What I was trying to say is it doesn't really matter "if Macs got more marketshare". They don't and therefore less people target them. [/citation]
I've conceded that Mac is "safer"...but the point is that Windows is more "secure"...
In regards to Linux--I like it! I wish OpenSuse didn't have the licensing issues (and thus the driver unavailabilities), but Ubuntu 9.10 is working just fine. Whenever I wanna surf the Web quickly, Ubuntu w/ G-Chrome is beautiful!
However, Linux' market share of PC usage is a drop in the ocean of Microsoft. I don't know why people keep fighting the reality. Am I the only one who remembers when MS was sued because of their apparent monopoly? Remember when the company was broken in two?
The remains of that monopoly are alive and well in the reality that you can go practically nowhere without seeing a Windows-based PC.
Why are people not happy that Windows IS more secure than OSX? Should it not be? With so many users, would you like to not know that any of you can be easily penetrated?
Come on...just accept it. You (and I, for that matter) can continue to run Linux until our computer hardware dies several years from now (if ever), but MS is going no where (yeah...dual-booting with XP--waiting for a stronger system (preferably with USB 3.0 & SSDs) to build for Windows 7.
So, I don't think that your point is void...I just find it incomplete...
--Happy Posting!!
I've conceded that Mac is "safer"...but the point is that Windows is more "secure"...
In regards to Linux--I like it! I wish OpenSuse didn't have the licensing issues (and thus the driver unavailabilities), but Ubuntu 9.10 is working just fine. Whenever I wanna surf the Web quickly, Ubuntu w/ G-Chrome is beautiful!
However, Linux' market share of PC usage is a drop in the ocean of Microsoft. I don't know why people keep fighting the reality. Am I the only one who remembers when MS was sued because of their apparent monopoly? Remember when the company was broken in two?
The remains of that monopoly are alive and well in the reality that you can go practically nowhere without seeing a Windows-based PC.
Why are people not happy that Windows IS more secure than OSX? Should it not be? With so many users, would you like to not know that any of you can be easily penetrated?
Come on...just accept it. You (and I, for that matter) can continue to run Linux until our computer hardware dies several years from now (if ever), but MS is going no where (yeah...dual-booting with XP--waiting for a stronger system (preferably with USB 3.0 & SSDs) to build for Windows 7.
So, I don't think that your point is void...I just find it incomplete...
--Happy Posting!!
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