PCI EXPRESS X1

[CompTIA_Rep]

An engineering student was walking across campus when another engineer rides up on a shiny new motorcycle.
"Where did you get such a great bike?" asked the first.
The second engineer replied "Well, I was walking along yesterday minding my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike. She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said 'Take what you want.'"
The first engineer nodded approvingly "Good choice; the clothes probably wouldn't have fit."



But wouldn't it be nice to turn down your friend because you didnt have the right connection.... .

Some days, enough is enough.
I keep an older computer around just for that reason...

 

[martyjs]

Thats what I Just said, I'm building my new computer to have as many old connections as possibe, I also keep a box full of cable so if I need to I can still plug in the old lap link and use ethier my serial port or Parallel port if I need to. I do keep one old computer around, (usally my last one that I hand on to my kids)
I also made sure my new board had 4 PCIe ports for future upgradability. 8)
I like as many different ports on my motherboard as possible.
I even made sure the MOBO I pick had a Firewire port as well but I,ve never used it. Always be prepared and I'm not a scout :lol: :lol:

 

[martyjs]

In regard to old computers only 2 months ago I took half a 6 X 4 trailer load of old computer to our recycle centre an old 486, a couple of Pentiums, and old AMD K2 and an old Mac, I kept some of them for over 7 years (and never used them), sometime we just have to move on.

 

[Crashman]

I used FireWire to network laptops before, but then I got a router...

 

[martyjs]

I use a router at home and also use a USB to ethernet adaptor for people who don't have ethernet ports. As I said before I also keep laplink cables for the really old PC's but in all honesty I would realy rather not use the old OS"s any more, I have to jog my memory to much to find any of the old info

 

[mustardman24]

I think the easiest possible way is to say that serial and parallel ports are being phased out of the system. The last 10 or so years there was no need to get rid of them as they were reliable standard. Now with technology like USB being a much more common standard, manufacturers should start to notice the decline in usage in the Serial and parallel ports (granted there are still a few devices [if any now-a-days] being used in the consumer dept). I remember when game ports were common place for joysticks and racing wheels, now my computer doesn't even have one of those ports and I'm perfectly fine with the gameport-USB adaptor that I have. You should start to see a change like that pretty soon as the digital age is expanding greatly every day.

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

Serial should NEVER leave the prebuild market. Large companies still rely on serial to please their outdated users.


it SHOULD be phased out for the elite consumer who wants simple perfection, not looming legacy.

 

[weilin]

ok my turn

PS/2 - take away one, until microsoft has this bug worked out, i still need one to keep my computer functional. I have USB mice and keyboard and i love them. But, when i do a format with xp, i have to install the chipset drivers which apparently include usb drivers which render my input devices non-functional after the restart. i would have to get a ps/2 keyboard to hit that next button to install the updated usb drivers.

Serial - As CCNA, i know its necessary for telneting into routers, switches etc but i wouldnt mind it not being an add on bracket with an header to the board itself. the option could cost a few bucks extra, i wouldn't mind. As long as every company keeps that header univeral (like usb headers). I can adapt. For 99% of my home use and work (ok its a more modern office), i never touch serial

Parallel - ehh it can go, i haven't had a use for it in a long time. There are telnet adaptors for it i think. db-25 to rj45 i think. de-9 is serial. only reason i mess with it now is for hp jetdirect 300x. maybe it should also be like usb - header and pins on the board.

IDE - where's the sata cd drives, i think i've been more than patient. until i see working sata cd drives 1's gonna regretably stay...

pci - just waiting for it to go the way of the isa slot, i understand professional editing equipment still require it but for the common user, pci express is smaller and will probably be cheaper due to the lesser silicon needed.

floppy - its useful, would love to see it go (more room for sata connectors) but unfortunately bios is based on it, and so are so many ppl in the office who insist on using floppies to pass data around even though tehre's a fastethernet network setup. dont ask i dont know why. I tried... even issued usb keys...

ill add to this when i think of more.

solution:

split market into 3 (after market comes out with more pci express stuff and sata cd drives)

Enthusiast board: no legacy other than whats required. It will cost more, but those in this categlory not usually use the old stuff anyways. Give them board headers. Its pins that they can choose to add if htey want one.

Average user: some legacy (parallel, maybe serial built in, pci express and maybe 1 or 2 pci (like isa in its day)

corporate user: almost all legacy, they need everything, some specialized hardware costs a fortune and changing over to pciexpress set is too expensive. Let them have it by reversing the system. 2 pci express slots and rest pci. Parallel, serial etc.

 

[martyjs]

One problem, I'm an Enthusiast and I like the backward compatability cause I love the Challenge that comes from all the newbies (re been working with PC for 2 to 3 years) who keep telling me they can't get this old program running or this old device running. Its fun :lol: :lol: and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
Not all enthusiasts just want to go faster you know. PC people aren't all that different from Car enthusiasts, we all like somethink different :lol:

 

[weilin]

thats fine, i said put the headers on the board so you can have your parallel and serial, just make it like those usb expansions in the back. Some boards by dfi and asus already have this implemented. Add the old connectors on a enthusiast board if you personally wish.

 

[RyanMicah]

Because YOU want the ports removed, so YOU should pay for OUR adapters. And that means including them in every box!

YOU want the part...why should I buy it for you? Adapter or component...either way you're buying it...

Please tell me you get these concepts, if not...I may have to squelch you.

 

[Crashman]

I guess cars shouldn't come with spare tires because you don't know how to change a flat?

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

HUH




/HUH


(always close your tags)

 

[rockyjohn]

As for the whole Serial/Parallel/PS2 port debate: they really REALLY need to take them off the IO backplane. Especially the parallel port that no one uses and is huge.

My HP 6P has been a good, dependable printer for years, and like most laser printers the cost per copy is much lower than for inkjet printers. Thank you motherboard manufacturers for continuing to include parallel ports for it.

Some complain about their continued inclusion - I guess they expect the world to be tailored just for them and no one else. I suspect though that they would not be happy if connections for their legacy system were eliminated or if they had to pay a higher price for smaller production lots of more specialized motherboards.

 

[Talon]

My 2c is that it makes sense for most lower end boards often used for businesses to still include "legacy" ports because they still make great use of those. On the other hand though I see no reason to include these options, especially serial or parallel on "enthusiast" boards because the enthusiast would more than likely not use them to begin with.

Enthusiast boards are very commonly a whole new board nowadays not something just "pumped up" from a low-end massmarket board. So there shouldn't be an issue of taking off parts that were previously there but rather a matter of not including parts that high end users mostly feel unecessary.

I do feel that until things change with the bios, os etc that floppies should remain a little longer and PS2 ports don't hurt my feelings because as an IT professional I often see our vendor ship units with either corrupt or non-existent USB drivers making it impossible to log into the machine without PS2 keyboard. Other than that I'd love to see them go too, what the hell lol

 

[flasher702]

ok my turn

PS/2 - take away one, until microsoft has this bug worked out, i still need one to keep my computer functional. I have USB mice and keyboard and i love them. But, when i do a format with xp, i have to install the chipset drivers which apparently include usb drivers which render my input devices non-functional after the restart. i would have to get a ps/2 keyboard to hit that next button to install the updated usb drivers.

Update your isntall disk and posibly your mobo. Problem solved.

Serial - As CCNA, i know its necessary for telneting into routers, switches etc but i wouldnt mind it not being an add on bracket with an header to the board itself. the option could cost a few bucks extra, i wouldn't mind. As long as every company keeps that header univeral (like usb headers). I can adapt. For 99% of my home use and work (ok its a more modern office), i never touch serial

out-of-band administration for teh security paranoid could be accomplished with USB, or IR, or eSATA, or Firewire. There is a lot of legacy hardware in our server rooms, but all you need is a little adapter for your laptop and you're g2g. It's not like you're hauling a state-of-the-art gaming rig into the server room to check on networking hardware.

Parallel - ehh it can go, i haven't had a use for it in a long time. There are telnet adaptors for it i think. db-25 to rj45 i think. de-9 is serial. only reason i mess with it now is for hp jetdirect 300x. maybe it should also be like usb - header and pins on the board.

exactly. All of this crap legacy stuff could be headers, or an add-in card (A PCIe1x addin card perhaps)

IDE - where's the sata cd drives, i think i've been more than patient. until i see working sata cd drives 1's gonna regretably stay...

Affordable SATA optical drives are here (expensive ones have been here for quite some time): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827106046

pci - just waiting for it to go the way of the isa slot, i understand professional editing equipment still require it but for the common user, pci express is smaller and will probably be cheaper due to the lesser silicon needed.

Again, exactly. For PCIe we're waiting on the manufacturers to switch over. Everyone with a new computer is ready to through the cards in. For the other connectors you might have some difficulty finding something to actually put in them.

floppy - its useful, would love to see it go (more room for sata connectors) but unfortunately bios is based on it, and so are so many ppl in the office who insist on using floppies to pass data around even though tehre's a fastethernet network setup. dont ask i dont know why. I tried... even issued usb keys...

BIOS is not based on floppy (again, you might need to get a newer mobo if it isn't working properly with USB. Or you might just need to update your BIOS or change a BIOS setting) you can boot from USB or CD-ROM. You can also easily hack those "for FDD only" BIOS update utilities and put them on CD-ROMs or USB drives and boot from them (I just updated my nForce4 mobo's BIOS by booting from CD-ROM with a floppy disk image on it). It's a matter of staying abreast of current technology. If you take away your user's FDD drives they'll switch over to USB drives in a flash (heh, heh.... pun) like the other things I've listed it take very little effort. One thing that you CAN'T do is install storage drivers during an install of any version of window WinXP 32bit or previous (I haven't tried any newer ones) but you can update your install disk and put the drivers in it which makes the process even easier.

Virtual Floppy Drive (used for ripping floppy images to CD): http://chitchat.at.infoseek.co.jp/vmware/vfd.html

ill add to this when i think of more.

solution:

split market into 3 (after market comes out with more pci express stuff and sata cd drives)

Enthusiast board: no legacy other than whats required. It will cost more, but those in this categlory not usually use the old stuff anyways. Give them board headers. Its pins that they can choose to add if htey want one.

Average user: some legacy (parallel, maybe serial built in, pci express and maybe 1 or 2 pci (like isa in its day)

corporate user: almost all legacy, they need everything, some specialized hardware costs a fortune and changing over to pciexpress set is too expensive. Let them have it by reversing the system. 2 pci express slots and rest pci. Parallel, serial etc.

The real solution is just don't put them on the backplane. Dell doesn't because they know their users don't need them and it saves them ~$.20 per mobo per useless connector they remove. All the manufacturer has to do is NOT sauder the parts onto the board, then the mobo will be cheaper. Every time I buy a mobo I'm PAYING to have legacy crap on there to keep legacy users happy (if they are so happy with their legacy crap why are they buying new computers???). For people who desperately want the ports they can use an adapter, or headers, or buy the version that comes with the ports on it. For specialty boards that space can be used for things that enthusiasts might actually want and use.

Sorry to pick on you weilin, but you brought up pretty much every argument for keeping the legacy ports in a clear and concise manner so I wanted to address them all

With a little reseach and perhaps a little money on adapter hardware (I have a USB FDD for example for working on older systems, it cost $20 and now I never need to buy a FDD for any computer ever again) you can free yourself from legacy hardware. I haven't even touched that stupid USB FDD in almost a year.

Chrashman: These old legacy connectors are fix-a-flat. Knowlege is the real spare tire. I'm tired of being forced into having an entire case of fix-a-flat in my trunk because some people refuse to learn how to change a tire properly.

PCI vs. PCIe is still in a cross-over periord, but serial, parallel and PS2 ports and FDD drives were yesterday's technology several years ago. Let them DIE. Pleeeeeease. Every chance you get refuse to buy them and educate yourself on the status and use of their replacement technologies. You don't have to be an early adopter to stay abreast of *current* technology. Watching people who go gaa gaa over C2D and 8800 whine and complain about how much they need a FDD and PS2 port on the backplane and couldn't possibly be bothered to buy an adapter or header is ridiculus. Do laptops come with FDD drives, serial ports, parallel ports, and PS2 ports? No. Do people miss them? Not really. They have better things to do with that space and cost. Can you get laptops that have some of these ports and can you get adapters that have all of them? Absolutely. So what's the complaint? Your brand-new computer might not be out-of-the-box compatible with 5year old hardware but there would be easy work-arounds? Some people don't want this stuff, and almost none of use need it. Why should we all cater to the lowest common denominator, especially for so-called "enthusiast" systems that are anything but the lowest common denominator.

 

[RyanMicah]

Every time I buy a mobo I'm PAYING to have legacy crap on there to keep legacy users happy (if they are so happy with their legacy crap why are they buying new computers???).

This is what I'm saying...we're PAYING for stuff we don't need. If he wants old crap, then he needs to pay the price, not everyone else. He's obviously a moron. That's like trying to find an antique car and telling GM that they should include the antique car in their production so that he doesn't have to pay so much for an antique. It's ludicrious.

I'm tired of being forced into having an entire case of fix-a-flat in my trunk because some people refuse to learn how to change a tire properly.

Bingo. Crashman, you can't win this argument. You're fighting a new majority of users who are using MODERN technology. Upgrade already. If you want old hardware support, YOU pay for it. For the MAJORITY of users who have moved on to much better things...we don't care to pay for old parts we don't use. Screw off already.

 

[weilin]

nah ur not picking, im fine with it, im a semi sitting on the fence person thats leaning towards progress.

ps/2:
slipstreaming drivers really isnt possible because i work with a lot of system and incorporating drivers from all manufacturers is nearly impossible not to mention keeping them up to date.

serial/parallel:
i favored removing serial and parallel as brackets for headers.

ide:
pardon me, i didnt see that light on drive. I was hoping for a silver sata drive...

FDD:
floppy, it should go as soon as i can be independent of them. I tried removing all the floppies from teh office, only, i had 35 emails complaining the slot disappeared the day after, it wasn't worth the head ache.

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

USB floppy for me... $10 bucks. I used my first floppy in over 2 years the other day trying to print from an OLD (no usb old) computer.

XP needs the floppy drive to install raid drivers.... but everything else can go.

 

[flasher702]

bah, no need to be callin teh crashman names. I think sometimes he just likes to be argumentative (not entirely unlike myself). He's a good guy though. Despite his SFF hating statements he has more experience with micro-atx boards then most people around here xD

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

Well Crashman @ 40k posts, wins.


how many posts you need to get site admin? Crashman.. you are due.

 

[Crashman]

Crashman, you can't win this argument...we don't care to pay for old parts we don't use. Screw off already.

It sounds like I just did win. I didn't know you were really that kind of person.

 

[flasher702]

Abit AB9-Pro

No Serial, No Parallel, conspiciously placed heatsync. This is much better. Still need to get rid of the PS/2 but they had room for 2 ethernet, 4USB, 2 optical, 1 eSATA, and 6 analogue audio. Get rid of the PS2 ports, 3 audio ports, put video on it instead and make it micro ATX and I will be extremely happy.

 

[Crashman]

You don't need to get rid of all that to add the ports you want, you can have 3 analog and 2 digital audio ports, 2 network connections, ESATA, and still have room for 2 serial ports (or one serial and one VGA) plus parallel and PS/2 ports.

Its been done, the ports you want don't require removing any of the ports you don't want.

 

[CompTIA_Rep]

thats not the point though.



Say No To Legacy - thats the point... its protesting.

Bah, this has gotten way out of hand. As an IT, and fixit computer guy, maybe I am just tired of fixing all these old systems and dealing with compatibility issues, and reliving old nightmares with dos and 9 pin serial.