Phenom 955 BE or Core i5 750

[OvrClkr]

Yea but the only reason they are comparing the 955/965 to the 750's is due to the fact that AMD has nothing else to offer in the near future, so the comparison is a must....

Hehe, its been quite interesting seeing all these arguments arise since the i5 dropped on Monday....

 

[Wisecracker]

I am looking for the one that would suit my needs. I will be Programming a Lot, and gaming quite a bit aswell. Which one is better for me? (Overclocked or Normal)

Phenom 720BE / Asus EVO AM3 790X: $224

 

[OvrClkr]

yea, that combo is unbeatable...... Should come out to 300.00$ flat with set of some decent DDR3.....

 

[dirtmountain]

Ah, the same old 'CPU doesn't matter when you're running GPU-limited games' argument.

If you really believe that, why not save some money by buying a dual-core instead?

Again if you look at the benchmarks you'll see that for the ones that include the E8400/8500/8600 that in many games they come out on top of the fps race. It's only the games that are optimized for quad cores that they don't perform as well. That is off the topic though, my contention is that the i5 750, the PII 955/965 and the Q9550/9650 are all pretty much equal in gaming. I wish there were benchmarks out that compare them all when overclocked, but so far no site has published those benchmarks.

 

[Onus]

Yes, although I would say "visibly equal in gaming." By which I mean that I'm not going to see a difference between 75 FPS and 90 FPS, even though that's a 20% increase. I will, however, see a notable difference if it leaves $100-$200 in my wallet.
I'm not an AMD fanboy, insisting despite overwhelming evidence that AMD PII performs better than Intel i5. I am, however, a fan of bang for buck, and there I do believe AMD holds the upper hand, has for some time, and it may become even more notable if PII prices drop some more.

 

[yannifb]

Test it. Compare it against my old I7 setup

http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww252/2MCHBoost/xfire.jpg

Not to take sides here but you were trying to prove the I7 is the best, but look at the best system in that chart :lol:

 

[OvrClkr]

What GPU was used in that bench?

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Its seems to me no matter what the benchmarks, there are some AMD bare back riders which profusely refuse to recognise that Intels new kid on the block is better than anything AMD has knocked out.

LOL - 100% agree, except I'd call 'em "AMD bare-butt riders" 'cuz they parade around with their arses hanging out 😀.

It's pretty funny to see the contortions some AMD fanbois will go through to contradict facts that are almost stamped on their foreheads. I can see somebody having a preference for one brand or the other, but seriously - they should be thinking about their wallets instead. Neither Intel nor AMD has any allegiance to anybody except their own stockholders.

Sheesh...

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Is amd going to drop the price of the 965? I sure hope in the 150 dollar range.

Realistically I'd say $180 - $200.

Of course they cannot afford even $200 without their margins remaining deep inside the financial toilet, but then I never did subscribe to the Hector Ruiz school of marketshare-at-all-costs!! 😛.

 

[MarkG]

Again if you look at the benchmarks you'll see that for the ones that include the E8400/8500/8600 that in many games they come out on top of the fps race.

Well, exactly. So if you only care about performance in current games which are GPU-limited, why would you even bother with a quad-core?

Of course if you do only bother about current games which are GPU-limited you'll kick yourself in a year or two when games are more CPU-intensive and a dual-core is unable to keep up and a Phenom II is well behind an i5 or i7; unless you like replacing CPUs every year or two anyway.

 

[Onus]

...
I can see somebody having a preference for one brand or the other, but seriously - they should be thinking about their wallets instead...

I agree with this entirely. That's why, right now, I'd probably base a new rig almost entirely on the GPU requirements, and only then choose a CPU and other components not to bottleneck it below those requirements, at minimum cost.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Not happening, no reason because it is faster than the I5 as much it is more expensive, and AMD officially stated that they won't be lowering their price and that their products are superior.

Not true. Plenty of reputable review benches now that mostly show the 750 as holding its own against the 965, and beating it in some games.

The same review sites almost uniformly state the 965 is overpriced for the performance - AMD needs to drop the price to equal or just below the 750 if they want to maintain marketshare.

And of course if AMD does so - bye-bye margins once again...

 

[fazers_on_stun]

I agree with this entirely. That's why, right now, I'd probably base a new rig almost entirely on the GPU requirements, and only then choose a CPU and other components not to bottleneck it below those requirements, at minimum cost.

Yes, but then if you wanna 'futureproof' your rig for say 18 months or so, the CPU "bottleneck" level will almost certainly rise. Besides, a lot of people such as myself do more than just gaming on our rigs.

IMO, and this is just my personal assessment of what's best for my budget vs. needs, the i7-860 on sale at Microcenter for $229 is the way to go. Has hyperthreading, low-latency PCIe controller which is great for my next-gen single-GPU needs, and will oc when I need to.

I was about to go with the i7-920, but it really exceeds my needs at the moment, although I could afford it.

 

[MarkG]

That's why, right now, I'd probably base a new rig almost entirely on the GPU requirements, and only then choose a CPU and other components not to bottleneck it below those requirements, at minimum cost.

Having to replace CPUs every year probably isn't good for your wallet...

 

[Onus]

Of course not. Which is a big unknown, although socket AM3 is apparently sticking around for a while longer than LGA1156. May be meaningless, and AMD may never catch up, or they may leapfrog. That's one of the things that makes "future-proofing" a myth. There are too many unknowns.

 

[Hellboy]

The price difference between i core 5 setup and a AMD Phenom 2 set up is now nominal, what gives is the better performance now from now on is the new processor from Intel. So in my mind AMD have nothing to offer appart from price cuts which they cant afford.

Time will tell...

 

[jcknouse]

^ +1 The_Blood_Raven...

Here are two builds for comparison...

AM3: $1,144.86
■CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 140W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ965FBGIBOX - Retail
■MOBO: ASUS M4A79T Deluxe AM3 DDR3 AMD 790FX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
■RAM: OCZ Reaper HPC 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model OCZ3RPR16004GK - Retail
■HSF: Scythe MUGEN-2 SCMG-2000 120mm Sleeve CPU Cooler - Retail
■HDD: Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
■PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ... - Retail
■GPU: XFX HD-489A-ZDFC Radeon HD 4890 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
■DVD: SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM
■Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 932 RC-932-KKN1-GP Black Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail
■Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM


Core i5:$ 997.90
■CPU: Intel Core i5 750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80605I5750 - Retail
■MOBO: GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD4 LGA 1156 Intel P55 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
■RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH - Retail
■HSF: COOLER MASTER Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-GP 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU ... - Retail
■HDD: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
■PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ... - Retail
■GPU: XFX HD-489A-ZDFC Radeon HD 4890 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
■DVD: SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223B - OEM
■Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
■Thermal Compound: Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM

The Core i5 build is roughly $200 cheaper, which will perform the same or better than the best AM3 chip.

Just observations about your "comparison":

1) You use high-priced per GB memory in the AMD build, and low per GB memory in the Intel build
2) You use 2nd highest priced AM3 mobo for the AMD build, but used the 13th priced out of 33 for the Intel 1156 build, not to mention the AM3 board features full 16x dual Xfire where the Intel does not, the AM3 board has more RAID capability, offers double the USB ports, etc etc etc
3) You use a higher priced Scythe on AMD and Cooler master on Intel. The CoolerMaster works on both types.
4) You use a higher priced 640GB drive on the AMD vs a 500GB on the Intel. The 500 would work on both.
5) You use a $140 fulltower case on the AMD, and a $110 midtower on the Intel.

If you put together an AMD with similar features to the Intel's parts:

$1,005.92 - MIRs + S/H
■CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz Socket AM3 140W Quad-Core Processor Model HDZ965FBGIBOX - Retail
■MOBO: ASUS M4A78T-E AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
■RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL7D-4GBRH - Retail
■HSF: COOLER MASTER Intel Core i5 & Intel Core i7 compatible RR-B10-212P-GP 120mm "heatpipe direct contact" Long life sleeve CPU ... - Retail
■HDD: SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD502HJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM
■PSU: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power ... - Retail
■GPU: XFX HD-489A-ZDFC Radeon HD 4890 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail
■DVD: SAMSUNG Black 22X DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223B - OEM
■Case: COOLER MASTER HAF 922 RC-922M-KKN1-GP Black Steel + Plastic and Mesh Bezel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

This would be a more fair comparison. As well, AMD has not adjusted their price points yet in reply to the release of the Intel product. If that happens, the pricing will probably be a virtual equal.

But, it's not that different at this point being $15.

 

[jcknouse]

Not true. Plenty of reputable review benches now that mostly show the 750 as holding its own against the 965, and beating it in some games.

The same review sites almost uniformly state the 965 is overpriced for the performance - AMD needs to drop the price to equal or just below the 750 if they want to maintain marketshare.

And of course if AMD does so - bye-bye margins once again...

I love AMDs, but I totally agree with what you reference. For $40 more, the PII 965 offers practically nothing.

I have yet to go look at new Intel specs compared to the 955 and 720 etc., but I'm going to check it out.

December rolls around, I might be building my first Intel-based box ever. We'll see.

 

[eyemaster]

If the cooler comes with the CPU, why would you buy a cooler already? Yes, if you overclock it more than 300mhz, otherwise, keep it stock.

 

[jcknouse]

True. Usually though, systems done here are "enthusiast" rather than just "stock". That's why people usually include a better HSF in a build.

I know I always do. Even on a budget build, so I can squeeze out all the use of the CPU that I can.

 

[OvrClkr]

If the cooler comes with the CPU, why would you buy a cooler already? Yes, if you overclock it more than 300mhz, otherwise, keep it stock.

I would say a roughly 80% of users here on Tom's would rather buy a cooler with their build, rather than skimp on it and regret it later down the road...Most users who buy the 750 will want to overclock regardless... Same as most that have a Black Edition CPU...... Very few will be satisified at stock speeds when they know that it doesn't take much to get a 15-20% performance gain....Buying a cooler for your CPU is considered a wise investment since it basically takes care of you CPU in hot conditions...This is why you normally buy a CPU cooler before you begin a new build.... [:jaydeejohn:5]

 

[jcknouse]

I usually will add/modify at least 2 fans in a case to improve airflow.

How about you, OvrClkr?

 

[OvrClkr]

On my last build I used an Antec 300 and yes I had to buy 4 additional 120mm fans and a fan-controller just to keep the noise down....

I remember when I purchased my Kuma 7750, the stock cooler was horrible and loud, not to mention how ugly it looks....

 

[jcknouse]

I've never used a stock HSF fan since...um...K6-3/550 I think.

I always bought quiet fans that were huge to cool stuff.

Plus, I built a system in an ARK midtower case that had 11 fans, including 2 slot fans, 3 HD cooler fans and the 140mm PSU fan. The reason? Things were so cramped in that thing, I had to keep air forced through it to keep the 9850 cool.

Of course, my old Athlon Thunderbird didn't heat my whole room like the 720 x4 BE and dual 9800GTX+s will lol

I am getting ready to build a new system at the end of the year. I might just start after Thanksgiving (when the pre-Christmas sales start) and pick up pieces here and there through the end of the year and build the cheapest top-end machine I can.

 

[Cryslayer80]

I love AMDs, but I totally agree with what you reference. For $40 more, the PII 965 offers practically nothing.

I have yet to go look at new Intel specs compared to the 955 and 720 etc., but I'm going to check it out.

December rolls around, I might be building my first Intel-based box ever. We'll see.

Hm, there are many fanboys here who don't want to read the entire statement just because I promoted 945/955 in some other posts over I5. And I didn't comment on I5's performance, I just said what AMD said. I will try to find that article. The ignorance of the people on Tom's knows no bounds. And you want a CPU that consistently performs better than a $1000 CPU in gaming, encryption and x264 encoding to be $150? Ignorance people, you are FULL of it.

PS: I was referring to fazers of course, bad quote, can't get used to Tom's here 😉