Phenom Exposed! Shipping with flaky 3rd cores.

[ragemonkey]

Yes, I'm blaming AMD's manufacturing problems, that apparently don't exist since they don't effect ALL phenom CPUs, on something other than the processor. And I'm not blaming it solely on Vista, I'm blaming it on people trying to use a hacked version of a program thats already craptastic to begin with, so they can run it on vista.

All I have to do is point at my sig as my proof. And I can even provide screenies. But no way in hell will I run AMD overdrive on my computer...

I also have the exact same issue on Vista 32. I haven't tried XP.... perhaps I should.

 

[homerdog]

Yes, I'm blaming AMD's manufacturing problems, that apparently don't exist since they don't effect ALL phenom CPUs, on something other than the processor.

Remember, the fastest K8s are still 90nm 😉

 

[yomamafor1]

It sure is easy to tell the Intel inside Idiot outside croud in this thread.
It is not a masking problem, nor a design problem, or it would show up in every chip. It is not a process problem, or it would have shown up in 65 nm X2s. It is not a QC problem, or it would show up in all other product.
It is most likely a motherboard problem. It can probably be fixed with a bios update.
On the other hand, the stupidity problem that a lot of posters in this thread have, will never go away.

I think you're simplifying this issue too much.

It could be a process / masking issue, since the mask used in making Phenom is completely different than X2s.

It could be a quad core design problem, as there are fairly decent number of such report across the internet. Apparently they couldn't get the 3rd core to get above 2.1Ghz, and that is the speed of the highest Opteron is currently offered.

It could be a motherboard problem, only IF all of those encountering this problem are using the same chipset, or the same board, or the same mobo manufacturer. So far I haven't been able to determine that.

On the other hand, I think you're getting too edgy about this.

 

[spoonboy]

Same here. And I agree much respect.

While initially I have only heard the universal "TLB" issue repeated over and over with 99 percent of the repeaters having no clue what it means, It wasn't enough to sway my opinion in that the chip would be better with a new stepping. But this is enough of a legitimate case here to make me not go there. Even with the B3.

I am definitely going to an intel quad core next time around.
While I can understand selling a chip with erratum, as a lot of them have had in the past both intel and AMD, I cannot buy a chip with a bum core. That's Bull.

It also adds weight to the reason they are marketing tri-core chips too.

While I hope AMD sorts this out and gets back in the game, they will not do it on my dime while I am sitting here with a chip that is all effed up giving me BSODs. No way man.

I'm glad I went with the 5000+be for now, and I am sure I will be much more happy with a q6600 or a q9450.
Oh well.

bye then.

 

[rallyimprezive]

this thread is going down hill now.

 

[yipsl]

It sure is easy to tell the Intel inside Idiot outside croud in this thread.
It is not a masking problem, nor a design problem, or it would show up in every chip. It is not a process problem, or it would have shown up in 65 nm X2s. It is not a QC problem, or it would show up in all other product.
It is most likely a motherboard problem. It can probably be fixed with a bios update.
On the other hand, the stupidity problem that a lot of posters in this thread have, will never go away.

Well, I'm getting a 45nm Phenom when they're out and I just spent $449 on ATI's latest card, so I have a certain loyalty to AMD during their financial difficulties. The reason I thought it most likely to be a QA issue is that they planned on releasing triple cores, which implies that a certain number of processors have bad cores. If any of them get past quality control, then that would account for a few reports of a bad second core in over clocking.

I just don't think it's intentional. Even if it's a bios or chipset problem, that brings back the days when some motherboards caused problems for AMD CPU's. Do you think that AMD will disable good working cores just to meet the price point of a promised triple core?

 

[Major_Spittle]

Actually all 4 cores on the Phenom are flaky.

Who cares, it is an AMD processor that was delayed, delayed, delayed, Paper released, delayed, recalled, delayed, delayed.

Why would anyone expect this POS processor to work.

 

[Pyros777]

I guess I should feel lucky I have a 9600BE running at 2.6ghz without issue. (OC'ed through BIOS)

The BSOD the OP mentioned did rear its head when I tried to go for 2.8ghz though.

I'm currently taking a windows server 2k3 class, so I run 4 virtual machines to do my lab assignments. I havent so much as seen a hiccup in performance, a single random reboot, or BSOD.

Either I'm not pushing the virtualization hard enough, or the TLB isnt as big a problem as we have been led to believe.

Still, this system does all I ask it to, so I have no reason to cry foul. I really feel bad for those who can't even run at stock speed though.

 

[bfellow]

endyen wrote :
It sure is easy to tell the Intel inside Idiot outside croud in this thread.
It is not a masking problem, nor a design problem, or it would show up in every chip. It is not a process problem, or it would have shown up in 65 nm X2s. It is not a QC problem, or it would show up in all other product.
It is most likely a motherboard problem. It can probably be fixed with a bios update.
On the other hand, the stupidity problem that a lot of posters in this thread have, will never go away.

So AMD is wasting their time testing and sampling revision B3? So all this time the motherboards for the Opterons aren't ready either? Wow.

 

[yipsl]

Now, that's a biased attitude. What did you have during Netburst? Were you an Intel fan who defended spaceheater capable 31 pipeline CPU's? Or are you a disgruntled ex AMD fan who went Intel and has to diss AMD for being a disappointment?

The earliest conclusion anyone can make is that a faulty core on a quad core CPU should have been disabled and binned as one of the promised triple cores. If it's not a quality control issue, then I'd be surprised as that's the most logical explanation.

The design is an improvement over the X2, it's not radical change. The B2 errata is only important to those who virtualize. The processor is a good budget choice at stock speeds.

Sure, it's not a Q6600, but could AMD have really skipped 65nm without bleeding more cash? What they need to do is make every 65nm quad core, triple core and dual core based on the Phenom design reach it's market niche and price point without any QA issues.

When you want to look at a POS processor, you've got to examine a Smithfield. Intel's put those out in the past, but if the Phenom is a POS, it's the first for AMD.

 

[MU_Engineer]

Well, from those 2 threads that were both started by the exact same person, I can gleen that most people are having problems on Windows Vista. Like I said I run Windows XP Pro sp3 and haven't had that issue. And since they're running on Windows Vista, they're using a hack/faulty work around to try and use AMD Overdrive.

It is certainly possible that Vista or something running on Vista (such as Overdrive) is the problem, given this anecdotal evidence. What we really need to do is to be able to find out and see if the bug is repeatable in any way and then try to do the same on other OSes like Windows XP, 2000, or a *nix.

Blaming AMD's manufacturing problems on Vista? Cool

It may not be an AMD problem- we'll have to rule out software and driver issues first, then see what boards and BIOSes people are running. If there is no pattern, then it is more likely the CPU than anything else. But you can't just jump to a definite conclusion without doing any research.

 

[Major_Spittle]

Now, that's a biased attitude. What did you have during Netburst? Were you an Intel fan who defended spaceheater capable 31 pipeline CPU's? Or are you a disgruntled ex AMD fan who went Intel and has to diss AMD for being a disappointment?

The earliest conclusion anyone can make is that a faulty core on a quad core CPU should have been disabled and binned as one of the promised triple cores. If it's not a quality control issue, then I'd be surprised as that's the most logical explanation.

The design is an improvement over the X2, it's not radical change. The B2 errata is only important to those who virtualize. The processor is a good budget choice at stock speeds.

Sure, it's not a Q6600, but could AMD have really skipped 65nm without bleeding more cash? What they need to do is make every 65nm quad core, triple core and dual core based on the Phenom design reach it's market niche and price point without any QA issues.

When you want to look at a POS processor, you've got to examine a Smithfield. Intel's put those out in the past, but if the Phenom is a POS, it's the first for AMD.

Yes the Intel's Smithfield and all Netburst processors suck, sucked, and were as worthless then as they are now. If you would like to talk them up or dispute this fact I will post bad things about Intel P4 processors too or do you only spend your time defending $hit processors made by AMD?

 

[jimmysmitty]

this thread is going down hill now.

Word on that. A serious thread that was turned upside down. I guess some people don't care that their Phenom may have a bad core come with it.

Yes the Intel's Smithfield and all Netburst processors suck, sucked, and were as worthless then as they are now. If you would like to talk them up or dispute this fact I will post bad things about Intel P4 processors too or do you only spend your time defending $hit processors made by AMD?

Hey I will defend my 3.2GHz and 3.4GHzEE Northwood Pentium 4's to the bone as before AMD released A64 chips they rocked the socks. And even with their long pipelines they still performed great for me like being able to ripd a DVD9 to a DVD4 in 7 minutes. And I have my 3.4GHZ P4 EE running at a cool 32c idle and 48 under load. But anything Prescott and higher was just too hot and didn't gain much in speed.

 

[randomizer]

Not really,
the new Athlon x2s that are coming out are phenom based

I thought they weren't calling them Athlons, oh well

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

I thought they weren't calling them Athlons, oh well

Craplons?
Defectorons?
Recallerons?
Delayerons?
TLBerons?

 

[jimmysmitty]

I thought that the new X2's were being based off of the old architectur and just clocked higer? Or maybe I am just crazy.

 

[randomizer]

Craplons?
Defectorons?
Recallerons?
Delayerons?
TLBerons?

Thunderbarons?

 

[zenmaster]

It is certainly possible that Vista or something running on Vista (such as Overdrive) is the problem, given this anecdotal evidence. What we really need to do is to be able to find out and see if the bug is repeatable in any way and then try to do the same on other OSes like Windows XP, 2000, or a *nix.

It may not be an AMD problem- we'll have to rule out software and driver issues first, then see what boards and BIOSes people are running. If there is no pattern, then it is more likely the CPU than anything else. But you can't just jump to a definite conclusion without doing any research.

If they swap the CPU and the issue goes away, it's not a software issue.
If it was a software issue, the issue would remain.

If they swapped CPUs and the issue remained, it could then be motherboard or software related.

Even if you Changed the OS or Changed the Motherboard and the issue went away there could still be a CPU problem. It could just be that the other software does not use the feature causing the issue.

 

[randomizer]

So really it could be a software/hardware combination issue.

 

[homerdog]

If they swap the CPU and the issue goes away, it's not a software issue.
If it was a software issue, the issue would remain.

Thank you, that was easy.

 

[TechnologyCoordinator]

 

[Evilonigiri]

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/microsoft/library/stapleseasy.jpg

I'm having a little problem here. I can't seem to push it.

*Attempts to push the button*

Grrr...

*Grabs sledgehammer and smashes monitor to smithereens*

 

[randomizer]

I found it quite easy, you just need to e-push it.

 

[MU_Engineer]

If they swap the CPU and the issue goes away, it's not a software issue.
If it was a software issue, the issue would remain.

If they swapped CPUs and the issue remained, it could then be motherboard or software related.

Depends on what CPU they swapped in there. If they swapped one Phenom 9600 in there for another Phenom 9600 and the problem went away, the problem was clearly with the first Phenom 9600. But if you swap in an Athlon 64 X2 for a Phenom, those are two different pieces of hardware with different drivers and BIOS code used to support it. That swap made about as much sense as swapping in a NVIDIA 8800 GT in the place of a Radeon HD 3870 to see if there was a problem with the HD 3870. YOU NEED TO USE A DIFFERENT OS WITH THE EXACT SAME HARDWARE TO RULE OUT DRIVER/SOFTWARE PROBLEMS.

Even if you Changed the OS or Changed the Motherboard and the issue went away there could still be a CPU problem. It could just be that the other software does not use the feature causing the issue.

It could also mean that the implementation of the feature on the working setup is correct and the implementation on the non-working setup is bugged. That is why the conditions that cause the BSOD need to be identified so they can attempt to be repeated. If it is a certain call to the hardware failing and causing a BSOD and the same call using a different OS or driver does not fail, then it is the specific software setup you're using that is bugged and not the hardware.

 

[endyen]

can you elaborate, or would that request just offend u even more?

I would be happy to.
It's not the first time that the Intel croud has jumped to a conclusion about AMD quality. Turned out it was all about Via.
This thread is all based on unsubstantiated rumour, yet many here are acting as if spreading FUD is a good thing.
Give it some honest thought. How often have we seen people say this is crap or that is crap, when the problem lays somewhere else. If this were a real situation, dont you think one of the many tech sights would have picked it up by now?
The AMD clean room team have done a great job, considering what they have to work with. They are consumate professionals. All changes are done in small steps with ongoing checks. Every piece of equipment is under sever scrutiny. They are absolute perfectionists. They will not let a chip leave thier shop, if it is not exactly up to grade or better. They are consumate german workers.
The design then? It is a symetrical design. All cores, on all phenoms and barcelonas are the same. You can not have a design problem if it is affecting less than 1% of product.
Why do I say it's a mobo problem? Because mobo makers are having problems getting bios out for thier old AM2 boards.
This is a tech site. If you dont know all of this and a whole lot more, you should read but not post, unless you have a question.
If, on the other hand, you feel compelled to jump on an unsubstantiated roumor, so you can kick a wounded dog, well, you know what that makes you.