Until we get more informations or even until we see the first review, I suggest everyone stops speculating on the little knowledge we have on that hardware. Only time will tell if there is a problem or not. Altough that threat could have been intersting...Pope, maybe its the way you said it that pissed people off...
even if it drain 100 watt that wont be worse that actual P4 so the new cpu still can be release but with much lesser headroom like original T-bred after a new stepping trouble been "solve" also might not be true wich can happen or the source was speaking of high clock speed will a 4 GHZ drain 100 watt wich in any case is too high.
Normaly Nw was about 15 watt lower that Willi at the same clock speed but having only about 25% more transistor.Presscott run at the same watt but have twice as much transistor compare to NW and cosumation mesure was at what clock speed.As prescoot seen now to start at 3.4 but also having a 3.6 at release.
It will like to have more information i will not be surprise if that at release those figure are not found and be only false rumor.Cuz at any case just with shrink of node they should be able to have lower consumation but with the rest of the others improvement they should go even lower or few or a part goes wrong.
I dont like french test
Normaly Nw was about 15 watt lower that Willi at the same clock speed but having only about 25% more transistor.Presscott run at the same watt but have twice as much transistor compare to NW and cosumation mesure was at what clock speed.As prescoot seen now to start at 3.4 but also having a 3.6 at release.
It will like to have more information i will not be surprise if that at release those figure are not found and be only false rumor.Cuz at any case just with shrink of node they should be able to have lower consumation but with the rest of the others improvement they should go even lower or few or a part goes wrong.
I dont like french test
Mephistopheles
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OK popegoldX, let me get this cleared out: I did not insult you at all. What I said was that you needed to chill out, because to me, it sounded as if you're having pleasure about Intel having troubles with prescott. Of course, what you said was not a problem. It was the way you said it:
*OK, no more waste of time*
Actually, anyway, prescott exceeding 100W is a big problem indeed. It is actually a trend to go up on heat output - remember, some 15 years or so back in time, all processors just needed passive cooling. Hell, even VIA's processors now require cooling... The problem with 100+W heat dissipation is that the cooling is very cumbersome and expensive. Madison, for instance, generates well over 100W of heat. Anyway, engineers are now fighting with physical limits to what they're doing and to the guidelines they're using... Increasing transistor counts and increasing clock rates tremendously impacts heat output. I can only think about what the companies involved will do... If indeed prescott is over 100W at 3.4Ghz, then chances are they will not be able to reach their alledged goal of 5Ghz with this core. With current cooling solutions, they might not even get past 4Ghz with ease...
If this is not a rumor, then there is a problem... Maybe they can iron it out, but it would be hard to do so... Maybe we'll see the dawn of a better cooling solution... Well, it's in their interest to figure it out. Opteron itself is limited by thermal dissipation, as I understand it - and it is brand new tech, which is worrisome. Reports are out of people who were able to OC Opteron to 2.2Ghz on ln2, a rather extreme cooling method. This makes me think that - although I have no confirmation on this - the current A64/Opteron core will have troubles in reaching clock frequencies considerably above 2Ghz...
Anyway, in those matters, it might be a better alternative to sit quietly and wait for time to pass. Maybe it's just a rumor, maybe it's a true problem... but it is not our problem, as long as we don't buy a CPU with insufficient cooling and heat problems.
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
You liked that, didn't you?... Your first reaction to someone who noticed your attitude was to call him/her an intelliot. And I will say this only once, popegoldx: stop saying you've been watching me and I'm an Intelliot. It is a childish way to express a pointless judgment of yours, and it is very insulting. Much more, in fact, than saying you need to take it easy - like I did.
*OK, no more waste of time*
Actually, anyway, prescott exceeding 100W is a big problem indeed. It is actually a trend to go up on heat output - remember, some 15 years or so back in time, all processors just needed passive cooling. Hell, even VIA's processors now require cooling... The problem with 100+W heat dissipation is that the cooling is very cumbersome and expensive. Madison, for instance, generates well over 100W of heat. Anyway, engineers are now fighting with physical limits to what they're doing and to the guidelines they're using... Increasing transistor counts and increasing clock rates tremendously impacts heat output. I can only think about what the companies involved will do... If indeed prescott is over 100W at 3.4Ghz, then chances are they will not be able to reach their alledged goal of 5Ghz with this core. With current cooling solutions, they might not even get past 4Ghz with ease...
If this is not a rumor, then there is a problem... Maybe they can iron it out, but it would be hard to do so... Maybe we'll see the dawn of a better cooling solution... Well, it's in their interest to figure it out. Opteron itself is limited by thermal dissipation, as I understand it - and it is brand new tech, which is worrisome. Reports are out of people who were able to OC Opteron to 2.2Ghz on ln2, a rather extreme cooling method. This makes me think that - although I have no confirmation on this - the current A64/Opteron core will have troubles in reaching clock frequencies considerably above 2Ghz...
Anyway, in those matters, it might be a better alternative to sit quietly and wait for time to pass. Maybe it's just a rumor, maybe it's a true problem... but it is not our problem, as long as we don't buy a CPU with insufficient cooling and heat problems.
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Dont believe everything you read *poopy*. Especially when it comes from the inquirer. They hate Intel even more than you; believe it or not.
You are totally grasping at straws to get a little dirt on Intel. When are you going to learn?
Wanted: Large breasted live-in housekeeper. Must be a good cook, organized, and willing to pick up after me.
You are totally grasping at straws to get a little dirt on Intel. When are you going to learn?
Wanted: Large breasted live-in housekeeper. Must be a good cook, organized, and willing to pick up after me.
Mephistopheles
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<i>(he is, isn't he? for some reason, this guy is terribly agressive... I don't quite know why he's so anxious... He needs to calm down.)</i>
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Hmm. I really dont believe or even really care if one processor or the other is pushed out farther. Like stated just means less choices. Doesnt really matter who releases first the other will be right behind it within a few days, just means more R&D for the other! or R&R....w00t!! i cant wait till i go on vacation this week.
The customer is not always right.
If they were, they would do my job.
The customer is not always right.
If they were, they would do my job.
Yes...i agree...the inquirer should not be used as a primary source of info...they give you a heads up...but do i beleive every little thing that they say/speculate...no. I think that we are forgetting that both of these cpus are breaking new ground...so it may take a little time to get everything ironed out...think of it this way the first AXP cpus could not overclock for $hit...now look at them now...they are one of the best overclocking cpus out...we just need to sit on our hands for a while...and not kill eachother with our speculation...
That being said...immagine the day when cpus ship with pelts and water cooling kits...it will happen some day...
There is no smell better than fried silicon
That being said...immagine the day when cpus ship with pelts and water cooling kits...it will happen some day...
There is no smell better than fried silicon
ok so its not WHAT i said ... its HOW i said it.
Ok i can buy that a lil. I will test this later and deliver some negative AMD news the exact same way .. and see if the same people who attacked me.... attack me again..
100 - 1 odds say they wont?
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by popegoldx on 07/23/03 02:42 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Ok i can buy that a lil. I will test this later and deliver some negative AMD news the exact same way .. and see if the same people who attacked me.... attack me again..
100 - 1 odds say they wont?
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by popegoldx on 07/23/03 02:42 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Mephistopheles
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You're right. *Mephistopheles sits on own hands*
Yes, CPUs are heating up as years go by. If we all had water cooling kits, we could all use faster computers...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
spud
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Sit on yer hands how in the hell can you play with yerself... oh ya hehe maybe yer a chick...
-Jeremy
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<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?pcm=1400777" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>
-Jeremy
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Mephistopheles
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spud, spud, spud... I guess I had that coming...
Anyway, it wasn't my idea. it was pIII_man's idea! Talk to him about that...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Anyway, it wasn't my idea. it was pIII_man's idea! Talk to him about that...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
spud
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Crazy son of a... I'm gonna have to be straight up with him, no lube just course hard hand spliting facts. Then let him down with a gentle touch to let him know hes wrong...
But on a serious note the 100watts consumption is no big deal at all. There is issues with draw but not overall heat output. I wouldnt be concerned with this since draw is never a sole heat output gauge. Much of that energy will be expelled in other forms such as radio and output signals. Read somewhere that generally speaking most semi conductors let most energy from draw out in the form or data output and radio waves. One major feature of the Alpha series was its scalability but also the signal clarity it had with its ultra high quality transitor designs. Which is now evident in the Pentium 4 line with the double pumped ALU 6.4ghz transistors inside the 3.2 thats damned impressive if you ask me. Thats also the beauty of high quality engineering.
Also I thought the Itainium 1 and 2 had like 350+ish watts heat output which is fairly remarkable considering the actual CPU is like 30-35million transistors. Almost 100% sure it has less transitors than the current P4 but with cache and the onboard L3 brings her up to 350+ transistors.
-Jeremy
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5341387" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?pcm=1400777" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>
But on a serious note the 100watts consumption is no big deal at all. There is issues with draw but not overall heat output. I wouldnt be concerned with this since draw is never a sole heat output gauge. Much of that energy will be expelled in other forms such as radio and output signals. Read somewhere that generally speaking most semi conductors let most energy from draw out in the form or data output and radio waves. One major feature of the Alpha series was its scalability but also the signal clarity it had with its ultra high quality transitor designs. Which is now evident in the Pentium 4 line with the double pumped ALU 6.4ghz transistors inside the 3.2 thats damned impressive if you ask me. Thats also the beauty of high quality engineering.
Also I thought the Itainium 1 and 2 had like 350+ish watts heat output which is fairly remarkable considering the actual CPU is like 30-35million transistors. Almost 100% sure it has less transitors than the current P4 but with cache and the onboard L3 brings her up to 350+ transistors.
-Jeremy
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=5341387" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?pcm=1400777" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A> HardWareBoss
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Thats right. Thats why I'm not losing any sleep on what's going on with Prescott. I do not work for Intel. Their people can lose sleep over it.
HardWareBoss
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Mephistopheles
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350 Watts? I don't think so, that's way too much. I'd expect something the likes of 115±15W or so, but not much more. I think I actually read that somewhere, can't recall where though. Certainly nowhere near 350W. 350Watts on a CPU die would inevitably burn the thing up, I guess...
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
Kelledin
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BTW, going by Babelfish, 100W is the thermal design power (TDP). That's a figure Intel uses for "typical" power draw, not max power draw. Intel lists it in their datasheets and tells OEMs, "target this heat level when you consider cooling. sure it can go higher, but our stuff will automatically slow down then, so all's peachy." TDP tends to be about 75% of max theoretical power draw.
Northwood's max theoretical power draw is somewhat over 100W. Intel lists about 70-80W as "typical", depending on MHz and all that of course.
So if this is true, and if I'm grokking it correctly, then the Prescott's "typical" power consumption is about as bad as Northy's "maximum" power consumption.
This really wouldn't be good. AFAICT the Northwood is getting cut off at 3.2GHz precisely because it's pushing the reasonable limits of heat. Sure it can overclock high, but god damn...how would you feel about wiring a common household light bulb inside your computer case?
Probably this Prescott heat issue would be solved by a stepping rework, or another feature castration like the Willamette. Let's hope it's just a stepping rework.
Or better yet, let's hope it's just a bogus rumor.
<i>I can love my fellow man...but I'm damned if I'll love yours.</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kelledin on 07/24/03 03:13 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Northwood's max theoretical power draw is somewhat over 100W. Intel lists about 70-80W as "typical", depending on MHz and all that of course.
So if this is true, and if I'm grokking it correctly, then the Prescott's "typical" power consumption is about as bad as Northy's "maximum" power consumption.
This really wouldn't be good. AFAICT the Northwood is getting cut off at 3.2GHz precisely because it's pushing the reasonable limits of heat. Sure it can overclock high, but god damn...how would you feel about wiring a common household light bulb inside your computer case?
Probably this Prescott heat issue would be solved by a stepping rework, or another feature castration like the Willamette. Let's hope it's just a stepping rework.
Or better yet, let's hope it's just a bogus rumor.
<i>I can love my fellow man...but I'm damned if I'll love yours.</i><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by kelledin on 07/24/03 03:13 AM.</EM></FONT></P>
Kelledin
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Studies at Ace's have shown that heat is really <i>not</i> the problem. Their tests had the fastest Opteron drawing something like 60W at peak, rather less than current Athlons at typical. Plus, Opteron has quite a bit larger core surface area to dissipate heat.
I'm thinking the Opteron needs a stepping rework. Remember, Athlon on .18u didn't really reach its full potential until Palomino. Same for Athlon on .13u--it didn't get full potential until TBred-B. Fortunately, AMD seems to use the first-run production chips in places where high MHz and OC'ability aren't so critical--i.e. servers and laptops. I imagine that's what's happening with Opteron getting intro'd first, and Athlon64 coming later.
<i>I can love my fellow man...but I'm damned if I'll love yours.</i>
Mephistopheles
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Yes, I saw that thing about Opteron's heat dissipation - I checked later, only <i>after</i> I posted. It looks great!
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
<font color=red><b>M</b></font color=red>ephistopheles
HardWareBoss
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They have to. You can't bring out a new CPU that only clocks at 2.2 GHZ. I don't beleave AMD is in the stone age.
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