Problems with Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD5H-BK

[true blue 2]

I am attempting to setup my brand new GA-Z97X-UD5H-BK motherboard. I am using an Intel i7-4790 CPU and G-Skill F3-2133C11D-16GZL RAM, both of which are on the compatibility lists for this mobo. Leaving everything at default in the bios, the CPU shows a turbo speed of 4.0 GHz, just as expected. Also, without enabling the XMP profile and/or manually tweaking the memory settings, the memory (which is 2133MHz) is only running at 1333 MHz, which is also expected. However, an unexpected problem occurs when I attempt to tweak the memory speed in any way whatsoever. Whenever I attempt to increase the memory frequency at all, whether by using XMP or by manually tweaking it, the turbo frequency of the CPU automatically lowers itself to 3.8 GHZ. I have tried everything my 22 years of experience can think of, including manually tweaking the CPU frequency back up to 4.0 GHz, but nothing will bring the CPU turbo frequency back up to the expected 4.0 GHz unless I set the memory frequency back down to its default level of 1333MHz. What am I doing wrong? Is this normal behavior for this mobo, or is it defective?

 

[synphul]

Something else I just thought of. You mentioned your turbo boost is maxing out at 3.8ghz rather than 4ghz as advertised. Is that running a stress test with all 4 cores active and turbo boost enabled? If so, I'm wondering if it's just acting normal. Maybe this is way off but a brain fart occurred. Turbo boost ratings are 'max' turbo boost. Turbo boost is somewhat progressive and usually 'max' is only reached with 1-2 cores active. It would be normal for the max turbo boost speed to be reduced to 3.9ghz with 3 out of 4 cores active and turbo boost functioning - and with all 4 cores using turbo boost, it would drop once more to 3.8ghz which is exactly what you're getting.

Intel's ratings are based on best case scenario (1-2 cores active) not with all 4 engaged. Others do this as well including the i5's. The 4690k's (without oc) are supposed to be 3.5ghz base, 3.9ghz turbo boost but when all 4 cores are in use under real world program use or stress testing that turbo boost will be lowered down to only 3.7ghz.

 

[synphul]

The only other thing I can think of to try is setting the turbo options manually. Try booting into the bios, at the start of the bios mode move the mouse to the left and click to slide open the uefi bios controls.

http://prntscr.com/6frj69

Once you're in the uefi, click on 'frequency' for cpu controls and down a few lines it should list turbo ratio values. For the 4790 it will probably say 1 core active 40 auto, 2 core active 40 auto, 3 core active 39 auto and 4 core active 38 auto. For the last two, core 3 and 4 actives try taking them off auto and setting them to 40 same as cores 1 and 2 along with the ram being set to 1600 and see if it will save and boot with those settings. If it does accept it, might have to do some thermal testing just to make sure it's ok with those other cores forced to the same turbo as 1 & 2.

http://prntscr.com/6frjvo

 

[true blue 2]

Thanks again for all the replies.

Synphul, it looks like you’ve really got your thinking cap on. I very much appreciate all your suggestions. As logical as they all sound, until now, I have not had this happen with any other i7 I’ve used. Everything you’ve said (as well as the other folks here) all makes sense. I’m just wondering why I haven’t seen any of this behavior before now. (???) I’m guessing I should count my blessing that this is the first time it’s happened. It sounds like I may have been getting lucky for a while now.

As for RAM, I’ve tried 5 different sets, as noted earlier in this post. One of them was actually a set of Patriot 16GB (4x4) 1600MHz and even that will not run at its advertised speed of 1600MHz without forcing the CPU frequency down to 3.8GHz. Absolutely nothing I have tried for RAM (regardless of make/model/advertised speed) will run any higher than 1333MHz without causing the problem. Your suggestion about manually tweaking each core’s turbo speed individually sounds like a good one, but I may have already tried that. I’ve done so many things, I’m starting to forget some of them… LOL. I will go back and try that asap. If it works, I'll let you know.

 

[synphul]

I know how you feel. I've been stumped by stuff in the past that leaves me beating my head against a wall (networking isn't my favorite chore). I'm sure it's not the case but when you said this is the first one/first time this has happened - were the previous successes (40x with xmp) also on a locked 4790? Or were they 4790k's? Sorry didn't realize you'd already tried the 1600 ram.

It's got me perplexed as well. Wish I had similar hardware laying around so I could try messing with it. A lot of it's just theory and specs, haven't set a locked i7 4790 to x40 like you're doing.

Here's someone who had the same issue with an asus board. They changed a setting that fixed it (from xmp to auto). They didn't specify where but the only xmp I know of is ram related. Setting to auto I have a feeling will set your ram back to 1333 but I could be wrong. Maybe try turning off xmp and setting the ram manually?

https://rog.asus.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-57001.html

 

[true blue 2]

I know how you feel. I've been stumped by stuff in the past that leaves me beating my head against a wall (networking isn't my favorite chore). I'm sure it's not the case but when you said this is the first one/first time this has happened - were the previous successes (40x with xmp) also on a locked 4790? Or were they 4790k's? Sorry didn't realize you'd already tried the 1600 ram.

It's got me perplexed as well. Wish I had similar hardware laying around so I could try messing with it. A lot of it's just theory and specs, haven't set a locked i7 4790 to x40 like you're doing.

Here's someone who had the same issue with an asus board. They changed a setting that fixed it (from xmp to auto). They didn't specify where but the only xmp I know of is ram related. Setting to auto I have a feeling will set your ram back to 1333 but I could be wrong. Maybe try turning off xmp and setting the ram manually?

https://rog.asus.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-57001.html

My previous non-K i7 builds have been with 3770, 4770, 4771, and 4790 CPU’s… so no, they haven’t all been 4.0GHz turbo speeds. I think I’ve only built one or two rigs with a K model i7. But none the less, not one of them (until now) has failed to achieve their specified turbo speed when I cranked up the RAM above 1333 or 1600 MHz. Oh, and just to clarify things, I have not built a rig with the 4790K yet. The current rig I’m having issue with is a 4790. I’ve built several with the 4770 and used 1866 and 2133 MHz RAM, primarily with Gigabyte mobos. I’ve been a big fan of Gigabyte mobos for a long time now, and if my clients don’t request a specific brand of mobo, I usually default to Gigabyte. I’ve also built several with Asus mobos, but recently, it’s been all Gigabyte.

The bottom line throughout all this is… regardless of whether I was using a K or non-K, I have never built an i7 rig that I couldn’t run the RAM at or above 1600 MHz and still achieve turbo speeds on the CPU. This one however, I can’t even get above 1333MHz without causing a problem. I just don’t get it.

The link you attached was very interesting, and gave me a few more ideas. I’m not sure the Gigabyte board I’m using aligns real well with the settings they were discussing on the Asus ROG board, but it did give me some ideas to work with. For now, I’ve actually committed to getting this build done. I have removed the fan and heatsink I was using to bench test it, and replaced it with a customized water block I’m going to use for this build. So right now, I have no way to keep the CPU cool to do any further testing. The radiator is already mounted, and hopefully I'll have the pump, reservoir and tubing in place in a couple days. I should be able to fire it up then and try a few more ideas you have given me. Thanks again!

 

[true blue 2]

Hey guys, sorry to keep you waiting. Working full-time and having so many other projects hasn’t left me much time to work on this. I did get all the plumbing and enough of the wiring in to fire this thing up again. I tried the suggestion of manually setting each core to 4.0, but it did not work either. Eventually (one at a time) I took ever setting that could affect the CPU speed/multiplier (even the adjustment that controls the “non-core” settings) and manually set each one of them to a value equal to or compliant with 4.0 GHz. Still no joy. At this point, I’d have to say that what Synphul suggested in one of his posts is actually closest to the truth here. As long as I am attempting to “overclock” the RAM to anything above Intel’s supported specifications, I am going to compromise the turbo speed of my non-k (locked) CPU. The only question that still remains is; why can’t I at least get 1600MHz out of my RAM instead of the 1333MHz limitation I currently have? This one’s going to haunt me for a long time if I can’t get it figured out. I suspect I may be able to get this working by experimenting with different combinations of memory timings and frequencies, but at this stage in the game, I’m hesitant to spend a lot more time playing trial and error.

 

[synphul]

I wonder if there's a way to call intel and speak to someone who's knowledgeable such as tech support (not just a customer service rep). That really is strange. Sorry you've been unsuccessful so far. Maybe it's a quirk with this particular motherboard. I haven't had any issues and haven't seen any lack of capabilities in terms of fine tune control but have only used it with k series cpu's. No experience with this board and locked cpu's so can't really say in that combination.

Edit: true blue 2, sent you a private message

 

[true blue 2]

Hey folks, as I don’t really have a solution for this, how should I select the “pick as the solution” option? Everyone has given such good answers, I feel like I should give someone credit here. Should I just wait until I have a solution, or should I eventually try to decide which suggestion is the closest thing to explaining the reason for the problem?

 

[synphul]

Still no joy? Sorry to hear that. Honestly I don't know if a 'best answer' needs selected or not. Unfortunately nothing has changed your situation or explained the odd behavior you're experiencing. Maybe you can ask a mod to close the thread or what you should do? Appreciate the thanks in trying to help you out but to be honest I'm not worried about a 'best answer' rating on my end. Not really in it for the uptick in answers, just trying to help folks out (and learn new things in the process). If you do end up selecting a best answer, Tradesman1 and SR-71 were the first ones to try and help you.

 

[true blue 2]

Sorry folks, I was down a couple weeks with a BAD internal infection. While recently discussing this issue with some colleagues, one of them told me had the exact same problem with a Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD4H and i7-4770 (non-K). As long as he left the RAM settings at mobo default, his CPU would run at the full 3.9 GHz turbo mode without issue. The moment he tweaked up his RAM speed (manually or using XMP), his CPU would fall back to 3.7 GHz turbo mode and could not be adjusted any higher despite anything he tried. He was even nice enough to send me screen-shots of his bios, and it was in fact, doing the same thing mine is. He too, never found a solution to the problem. I’m pretty convinced now this has something to do with the locked multiplier of the non-K cpus. What I’m not sure of now is if it’s a coincidence that we are both using Gigabyte mobos, or if Gigabyte’s mobo architecture may have something to do with it.

 

[true blue 2]

Well folks, I final got around to closing this post. The computer in questioned was finished and delivered to the customer over a month ago now. He is very happy with it, but hasn’t ever figured out how to get the full 4.0GHz out of the i7-4790 CPU. I’m sorry I didn’t close the post sooner, but I was hoping to have the time to revisit and/or research this issue a little further and actually come up with an answer. Best I can tell, Synphul’s theory about the over-clocked MC on a locked CPU seems to make the most sense, so I’ve selected it as the “Best Answer” in lieu of a permanent fix.

Thanks again to everyone who helped out here.

 

[synphul]

Glad the customer is happy with it. Wish there would've been a clear cut solution or fix to the issue or at least an identifiable reason why.

 

[true blue 2]

Glad the customer is happy with it. Wish there would've been a clear cut solution or fix to the issue or at least an identifiable reason why.

Thanks Synphul. I appreciate your support on this. 😀

 

[pcbonez]

Most modern CPUs and RAM speeds ultimately go back to some multiple 'times' 100MHz or 133MHz.

It looks like you are trying to use a multiple of 133MHz for the RAM (16 x 133 = 2133MHz, 10 x 133 = 1333MHz) yet when you manually adjust the CPU you are using a multiple of 100MHz (as you said 40 x 100MHz = 4000 MHz).

Try using 133MHz for the CPU too. (Like 30 x 133 = 3990MHz)
Or.. Try them both at some multiple of 100MHz.

Yeah. Modern motherboards are supposed to automatically take care of that mismatch but in practice they are not 100% reliable - especially near the limits of their range.
.

 

[Chaitanya Soni]

You mentioned trying to run 2133 ddr3 on the ud5h-bk with an i7 4790 correct? Not 4790k? I wonder if part of the issue running the ram at overclocked speeds (technically max supported by intel is 1600) is using a locked non k cpu? If it's locked, I wonder if it's not able to up the internal memory controller to the speeds needed for 2133. I haven't personally tried running ram above 1600 on a ud5h (I have 2, they're both non 'bk' but essentially same board, no spec differences). From what I've heard from others, getting the ram above 1600mhz may take a slight oc on the cpu to raise the on die memory controller a little and this is something a non 'k' cpu wouldn't be able to do. Even though the mobo along with many other z97 mobo's advertise support up to ddr3 3000 or 3200, it's still going to be limited by the cpu since it controls the memory - not the motherboard. Anything over 1600mhz (max stated official intel support) would be considered overclocked ram.

I got the z97x ud5h bk mobo wid i5 4690k & gskill tridentX f4-2400c10d-16gtx 16gig ram which runs automagically on 2400 with XMP Profile 2. This system runs stable at 2400mhz ram and turbo to 3.9ghz. I did do a render test at 4ghz and got awesome results, again with the ram in same config. 1.40hrs .avi 608*272 to h.264 same res in 20 mins, no effects. Mind well I do not have a graphics card. The oc required no voltage bumps, turned it right back down as there are no custom coolers in there (yet). Btw the temps were in the 60s with the stock heat sink and paste. While it's possible for me to overclock the dimms to 3.1(did it once), it would be worse for me in performance as it looses accuracy in rendering, greatly helps in pixel pushing tho.... Hope I helped