Psu help !

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avinash.kumar105

Aug 17, 2018
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Hi All,
Below is my system configuration
Processor I5 8600 non k
MOBO gigabyte z370M d3h
Corsair vengeance ddr4 8gb ram
Can u please suggest if 650W psu would be sufficient for this config? Also i have a very old Amd gpu. Probably 7000 series one. Please advice
 
Solution
Karadjgne
Oh lol, the Evga P2/P3 is among the best psus on the market.

And no, your ups doesn't have to follow the psu. With a gtx1060, you are looking at a gaming load of maybe 250w. Having a 650w ups just means you have time to spare, and no matter how hard you are gaming, the ups can take the brunt of any power outages with no loss. If you had a 600w load you'd be limited to what the ups stats say is time at full load, usually a couple of minutes.

One other thing to consider in your search and thats your ups. With Active PFC units such as that Evga P2,/P3, they can be extremely picky about sinewave output. With APFC it's pretty much a must to have the ups output ad Pure Sinewave. This gives a consistent flow of electric along the whole...
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The vs650 is on the lower end in terms of quality for Corsair psu units-with that said its not terrible but not as good as others.
If you could spare a tad more I'd be going for a better unit as it will last you a lot longer-where exactly are you going to be buying from?
 
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With that pc and a gtx 1060, anything decent 450w - 550w is plenty.

Choices are limited in India, there's bad-mediocre at the budget level, then the good stuff only happens when you triple the cost. More than likely, the Seasonic S12-II/M12-II 520w is going to be the best value, although a Corsair CXM 550W (new black/silver models) would be just as good. Antec HCG, CoolerMaster V series, anything Seasonic, thermaltake Tough power (not the smart or TR2!), anything XFX (except XT!), any of the new Corsair (black and silver paint job), older Corsair HX-AXi series are generally what you'll find as decent.
 
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Thanks for the suggestion Karadjgne. I was of the impression that the ups and psu wattage should be inline. My ups is 660W so should i only go for a 650W psu? Is that so ? Also can u comment on evga supernova 650W platinum as it fits my budget..

Thanks !
 
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Oh lol, the Evga P2/P3 is among the best psus on the market.

And no, your ups doesn't have to follow the psu. With a gtx1060, you are looking at a gaming load of maybe 250w. Having a 650w ups just means you have time to spare, and no matter how hard you are gaming, the ups can take the brunt of any power outages with no loss. If you had a 600w load you'd be limited to what the ups stats say is time at full load, usually a couple of minutes.

One other thing to consider in your search and thats your ups. With Active PFC units such as that Evga P2,/P3, they can be extremely picky about sinewave output. With APFC it's pretty much a must to have the ups output ad Pure Sinewave. This gives a consistent flow of electric along the whole curve. The issue with simulated sinewave or square wave is that while it may somewhat resemble a sinewave, it isn't. Yes you get the ups and downs as needed, but during the transition from up to down and vice versa, there's actually 0v. Any decent DC-DC psu has APFC and will see that 0v state as being a power outage, and shut off.

For instance, I have 2 pc's. One has an older group regulated Seasonic M12-II 520w, the other a Evga G2 550w. I have 1 Minuteman Pro 700, which has simulated sinewave. The ups works great on the Seasonic psu, but will not work with the Evga G2. If I pull the wall plug, the battery kicks in and Seasonic stays running, no issues. The Evga shuts down instantly.

This isn't a design flaw in the Evga, it affects any psu with active PFC. Basically simulated/square wave ups with an APFC DC-DC psu is no better than a really good surge protector.

As good as the Evga is, and it's very good, with your system, if you have a simulated sinewave upc, you'd be better off with the Seasonic M12-II or its Antec version, where it'll work with a non-smart ups. If your ups is 'smart' or pure sinewave with AVR, then by all means jump on that Evga Platinum.
 
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Solution
Rexper, no idea why you bothered to link that thread. Ups are not cheap, India is known for issues with electrical reliability. OP has a ups, needs a psu that will work with it, without having to spend out 5 times the amount to find a ups that works with the psu.

Yes, the Evga platinum is the best of that bunch, so what. It probably renders op's ups as absolutely useless as anything other than a surge protector, since when it cuts to batteries, the simulated/square wave will shut down the psu.

And if you actually bothered to read my reply, I also recommended the CXM, but that might not be available to Op, not many of those local stores ship very far without extreme shipping rates, which can negate any savings from a cheaper psu. The Seasonic S12-II is in most stores, even locally, it's protections are fine for the usage. The CX is generally the older style, not the new in many local Indian markets and the CXM is only in a few stores.
 
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Karadjgne. Many thanks for your opinion. I am not technically strong. TBH i don't understand most of the technical points u have put forward. I did a little digup on my UPS. Its not a smart ups. Its APC BR1100CI-IN (https://www.amazon.in/APC-BR1100CI-IN-UPS/dp/B005Y8T0WW?tag=googinhydr18418-21&tag=googinkenshoo-21&ascsubtag=5d823409-6eed-4ff1-89b9-85cf1ca8426b). I believe this is a simulated sine wave one. Pls correct me if am wrong. My primary purpose for the system is to do some video editing and gaming. Nothing more than that. Based on your suggestion am planning to get seasonic m12-II. Will it be good enough ?

Many many thanks!
 
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Yep, sure will. I've had my older M12-II running 24/7/365 for the last 5 years, only shutdown for cleanings or when the power goes out for longer than my ups can keep it running, and it's been flawless. Might not be the best output psus, they were for quite a while, but Seasonic builds a solid, dependable, quality psu that's not going to burn down your house and will work with your APC BR series.

The BR series uses a step-approximated sinewave. Also known as approximated or modified sine wave. Refers to a sine wave that instead of looking like a smooth curve where the voltage gradually ramps up and down over the course of the cycle, there are a series of “steps” or jumps in voltage from one plateau to another.


It's the part between the top and bottom red lines where voltage = 0v, the pure sinewave has a constant voltage. That 0v state is what messes up DC-DC APFC psus. It's not a problem for the older, group regulated designs. There's 50-60 of those cycles per second, so you'd be looking at a psu that has 50-60 chances per second of tripping over that 0v state.
 
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Completely utterly and totally not true. This is a power supply highly reviewed despite its age and known worldwide for its quality. Its protections are correct based upon its older design and have been well discussed and established.

That Johnnyguru thread is useless, I have seen myself high end ActivePFC PSUs switch off when battery switching on a simulated sine wave UPS. Its enough of an issue that APC has introduced a more value lined pure sinewave product, because Cyberpower has been eating them for lunch in that market.

And you haven't taken into account the users location where his options are limited, especially on the UPS front.
 
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I’ve also seen many APFC power supplies have no problem with simulated sine wave UPS.
What makes you think one EVGA having issues with 1 UPS therefore means no EVGA PSU is compatible with any simulated step PSU.

I don’t understand why DC or group regulated secondary design would have an impact. These problems occur in the primary stages, not on voltage delivery.
I would like to see where you found this statement?
Again, I’ve seen many use DCDC APFC PSUs with simulated sine wave UPSs.
It shouldn’t be ignored, but there aren’t any simple rules.
The are several things that could make a PSU have issues, such as too low voltage cap, too short hold up time, and many components I don’t have much knowledge on.

There are new Corsair CXs available in a few stores including mdcomputers.

As a side not, I dislike the S12ii/M12ii and here are my reasons:
If you can afford a grey label Corsair CX, Cooler Master MasterWatt, be Quiet System Power 9 or Pure power 10 400, cooler master GM even, it puts the S12ii in poor value.
They lack many important protections, such as OTP, OCP at all (most single rail PSUs will atleast have OCP on minor rails), no UVP on 12v rail.
It’s also using an outdated topology, group regulated and double forward, which leads to loose voltage regulation in modern systems, no C6 / C7 sleep state support.
 
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It depends on the UPS. On my wife's system we have an APC BR1000G which is simulated sine wave, and her EVGA 550 G2 has no problem with it. Its also a higher end unit (the APC). One of my prior PSUs the EVGA 750 B2 did not like a Triplite simulated sine wave unit I had. I also had multiple Dell and HP desktops not work with APC simulated sinewave units. My Seasonic Prime also doesn't like simulated sine wave.

My point is your anecdotal evidence and mine seem to contradict eachother. But ignoring both this is a commonly known issue with SOME PSUs and UPS units. APC cited it in releasing their newest line (the Active PFC issue), its in their best interest to make sure their UPS units work with all PSUs all of the time.

To add to this though the S12II and M12II are both ActivePFC so they may well have problems here too. Its really hard to tell without testing them. From everything I've encountered it really depends how sensitive the Active PFC circuit is.

If he can get a Corsair CXM thats great, but we have encountered many users here with UPS units in other countries that are both simulated sine wave, and in many cases far lower end than what we can get here in the US (even ones they sell there made by APC). So it or the Seasonic may have problems. Doesn't change the fact you have decided to ignore our previous discussion and go straight for the jugular on the S12II with outright fallacies.
 
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Mostly it's in the difference of the sinewave. Not all simulated outputs are the same, they'll vary, everything from a modified square wave to an almost heartbeat looking wave. Stepped is the worst, having a definite 0v state, even pure square is better. But thats also according to just how long the holdup time is. Old group regulated psus had longer holdup times, a byproduct of their circuitry design. Newer dc-dc have shorter holdups, the Evga 550w G2 actually fails the ATX standards in this, and the 650w is barely better. So you get psus that are so tightly wound they look for any excuse to shut down. DC-DC can be just too exacting on protecting themselves. It's the sheer amount of time spent at 0v state, or the time below the trip limits of the psu that messes things up. Mix the right psu with the right wave and no worries, works great, mix the wrong psu or wrong wave or both, and apfc kicks the bucket.

Some ups, like my minuteman pro use a simulated sinewave, it's actually reasonably close to a pure wave, but not enough for the G2, even though it's stated that it's apfc compliant. Works like a champ on my Seasonic, never had an issue, fails every time on the Evga.

Buying a psu that will work with the ups is far better than buying a better psu where there's a 50% chance of failure 50-60 times a second. Law of averages state that's basically a 100% chance of failure, just a matter of when.
 
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