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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

A few weeks back I had a problem with a dead PSU. Well I received
a replacement PSU and for the most part everything seems to be ok.
In looking at the voltages the -12v line is showing some strange numbers.
For the most part the voltage is right around -13.0 and I've seen it go as
high as -13.8. Is this something I should be concerned about?

Dave Schaeffer
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

"Dave Schaeffer" <dschaeffer440@excite.com> wrote in message
news:c5jjq1$2gl9f$1@ID-185100.news.uni-berlin.de...
| A few weeks back I had a problem with a dead PSU. Well I received
| a replacement PSU and for the most part everything seems to be ok.
| In looking at the voltages the -12v line is showing some strange numbers.
| For the most part the voltage is right around -13.0 and I've seen it go as
| high as -13.8. Is this something I should be concerned about?
|
| Dave Schaeffer
|
|

Hi Dave -

I wouldn't worry about it. There's basically no current hardware out there
that makes use of the -12v and -5v rails (as I understand, it was pretty
obscure stuff to begin with).

Jef
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Serial ports use negative voltages. Serial ports are
ubiquitous; not obscure. However those voltage variations are
within tolerance of a typical serial port driver and
receiver. Voltage variations by themselves are not
significant. But what is significant is that variations
exist; suggesting a symptom of some future or more serious
problem.

-12 volts has exceed -12.6 volts; unacceptable. So is this
due to a bad ground or due to a failing (or cheapo) power
supply?

Jef Norton wrote:
> I wouldn't worry about it. There's basically no current hardware
> out there that makes use of the -12v and -5v rails (as I
> understand, it was pretty obscure stuff to begin with).
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

I gotta say: How much *current* hardware out there makes use of the -12v
and -5v rails? Specifically: How much *current* hardware out there makes
use of RS-232 serial interfaces? Ubiquitous - sure. Rarely used these
days: also ... sure.

Besides, there's a lot of wiggle room there. The RS-232 v.24 standard
specifies that the Driver Output Signal (loaded minimum) be between +/-5v to
+/-15v, the Driver Output Signal (unloaded maximum) be between +/-25v, the
Receiver Input Voltage Range be between +/-15v and the Receiver Input
Sensitivity be between +/-3v.

The RS-232 DB-9 standard uses the negative voltages on the DTE and DCE
signal pins. Anything -3v or less on either pin 2 or pin 3 specifies DTE or
DCE respectively.

I'll agree "cheapo" power supply regulation... but I certainly wouldn't say
failing.

Jef


"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407E01AE.28FF8BF@hotmail.com...
| Serial ports use negative voltages. Serial ports are
| ubiquitous; not obscure. However those voltage variations are
| within tolerance of a typical serial port driver and
| receiver. Voltage variations by themselves are not
| significant. But what is significant is that variations
| exist; suggesting a symptom of some future or more serious
| problem.
|
| -12 volts has exceed -12.6 volts; unacceptable. So is this
| due to a bad ground or due to a failing (or cheapo) power
| supply?
|
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Keeping -12 volts in spec is so pathetically easy that
regulation is often accomplished with only a single chip
regulator. A whole power supply inside one chip. However
something is so wrong inside the power supply that even -12
volts is not correct.

Same reasoning that was used to launch Challenger and to
stop investigations of what could have avoided the Columbia
disaster are being used to justify failure on the -12 volts.
-13 volts on the -12 volt supply is a symptom, maybe, of
larger or pending problems. Don't justify a symptom that may
be warning of more serious problems. That is what some did
even to kill astronauts.

For -12 volts to be -13 or -13.8 volts says something else
is seriously wrong because maintaining -12 volts is suppose to
be trivial and easy. Don't waste long reasoning to justify a
problem that should never exist. -12 volt regulation is
trivial and could only be that erroneous due to a 'current or
upcoming' failure.

Jef Norton wrote:
> I gotta say: How much *current* hardware out there makes use of
> the -12v and -5v rails? Specifically: How much *current* hardware
> out there makes use of RS-232 serial interfaces? Ubiquitous -
> sure. Rarely used these days: also ... sure.
>
> Besides, there's a lot of wiggle room there. The RS-232 v.24
> standard specifies that the Driver Output Signal (loaded minimum)
> be between +/-5v to +/-15v, the Driver Output Signal (unloaded
> maximum) be between +/-25v, the Receiver Input Voltage Range be
> between +/-15v and the Receiver Input Sensitivity be between
> +/-3v.
>
> The RS-232 DB-9 standard uses the negative voltages on the DTE
> and DCE signal pins. Anything -3v or less on either pin 2 or
> pin 3 specifies DTE or DCE respectively.
>
> I'll agree "cheapo" power supply regulation... but I certainly
> wouldn't say failing.
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

that would be true unless there is no or poor monitoring on the mobo for the
since it is no longer used. many recent mobo's will report a funky voltage
for -12 or -5 because those monitors are either no longer supported or are
being used for something entirely different.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 130,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407EEDD5.ECBCA4DE@hotmail.com...
> Keeping -12 volts in spec is so pathetically easy that
> regulation is often accomplished with only a single chip
> regulator. A whole power supply inside one chip. However
> something is so wrong inside the power supply that even -12
> volts is not correct.
>
> Same reasoning that was used to launch Challenger and to
> stop investigations of what could have avoided the Columbia
> disaster are being used to justify failure on the -12 volts.
> -13 volts on the -12 volt supply is a symptom, maybe, of
> larger or pending problems. Don't justify a symptom that may
> be warning of more serious problems. That is what some did
> even to kill astronauts.
>
> For -12 volts to be -13 or -13.8 volts says something else
> is seriously wrong because maintaining -12 volts is suppose to
> be trivial and easy. Don't waste long reasoning to justify a
> problem that should never exist. -12 volt regulation is
> trivial and could only be that erroneous due to a 'current or
> upcoming' failure.
>
> Jef Norton wrote:
> > I gotta say: How much *current* hardware out there makes use of
> > the -12v and -5v rails? Specifically: How much *current* hardware
> > out there makes use of RS-232 serial interfaces? Ubiquitous -
> > sure. Rarely used these days: also ... sure.
> >
> > Besides, there's a lot of wiggle room there. The RS-232 v.24
> > standard specifies that the Driver Output Signal (loaded minimum)
> > be between +/-5v to +/-15v, the Driver Output Signal (unloaded
> > maximum) be between +/-25v, the Receiver Input Voltage Range be
> > between +/-15v and the Receiver Input Sensitivity be between
> > +/-3v.
> >
> > The RS-232 DB-9 standard uses the negative voltages on the DTE
> > and DCE signal pins. Anything -3v or less on either pin 2 or
> > pin 3 specifies DTE or DCE respectively.
> >
> > I'll agree "cheapo" power supply regulation... but I certainly
> > wouldn't say failing.
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

Motherboard does not monitor voltages. Monitoring is a
function inside the power supply. Upon voltage failure, then
power supply signals same to motherboard logic. All of which
is irrelevant to this potential problem as suggested by
negative 13+ volts.

TomG wrote:
> that would be true unless there is no or poor monitoring on the
> mobo for the since it is no longer used. many recent mobo's
> will report a funky voltage for -12 or -5 because those monitors
> are either no longer supported or are being used for something
> entirely different.
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Wed, 14 Apr 2004 23:29:50 -0400, w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Serial ports use negative voltages. Serial ports are
>ubiquitous; not obscure. However those voltage variations are
>within tolerance of a typical serial port driver and
>receiver. Voltage variations by themselves are not
>significant. But what is significant is that variations
>exist; suggesting a symptom of some future or more serious
>problem.
>
> -12 volts has exceed -12.6 volts; unacceptable. So is this
>due to a bad ground or due to a failing (or cheapo) power
>supply?
>
>Jef Norton wrote:
>> I wouldn't worry about it. There's basically no current hardware
>> out there that makes use of the -12v and -5v rails (as I
>> understand, it was pretty obscure stuff to begin with).

Ignore the -`12v and -5 volt measurement. The tool you are using
is out of date These voltage are not used on modern motherboards.
Modern serial chips generate the requisite negative voltages
internally from a single +5 volt rail.

See:-

http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/374

John Lewis
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

"motherboard does not monitor voltages..."

is that a fact? I think you better get caught up on your facts. modern
boards *do* have monitoring on the board.

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 130,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"w_tom" <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:407F3099.642AF17C@hotmail.com...
> Motherboard does not monitor voltages. Monitoring is a
> function inside the power supply. Upon voltage failure, then
> power supply signals same to motherboard logic. All of which
> is irrelevant to this potential problem as suggested by
> negative 13+ volts.
>
> TomG wrote:
> > that would be true unless there is no or poor monitoring on the
> > mobo for the since it is no longer used. many recent mobo's
> > will report a funky voltage for -12 or -5 because those monitors
> > are either no longer supported or are being used for something
> > entirely different.
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

TomG wrote:
>
> "motherboard does not monitor voltages..."
>
> is that a fact? I think you better get caught up on your facts. modern
> boards *do* have monitoring on the board.


AHhhh but ....
is it the 'matched pair' type that lites up under use ????

🙂
Qed.
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

my matched pair light up all the time <vbg>

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 130,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"0_Qed" <nano.bot@shaysnet.com> wrote in message
news:40803EF6.498E@shaysnet.com...
> TomG wrote:
> >
> > "motherboard does not monitor voltages..."
> >
> > is that a fact? I think you better get caught up on your facts. modern
> > boards *do* have monitoring on the board.
>
>
> AHhhh but ....
> is it the 'matched pair' type that lites up under use ????
>
> 🙂
> Qed.
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

TomG wrote:
> my matched pair light up all the time <vbg>

Geezus!!!!

How "they" do =that= ????

Care to 'share' your technique ???

How do "they" activate ???
Do you have to 'monitor' them ... or is activation awgamagic ??/

BTW ... hows the implant doing ???
Just asking ... no harassment intended ...

Damn ... how come I've never come across this "feature" ???

🙂
Qed.

PS- Is =that= why you always carry a 100', 12vdc , jumper cable with you
on service calls ... 2nd floor stuff , et al.

PPS- Where can I get 100' jumper cable ???

PPPS- Damn.
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

too many questions... too little time ;-)

--

Thomas Geery
Network+ certified

ftp://geerynet.d2g.com
ftp://68.98.180.8 Abit Mirror <----- Cable modem IP
This IP is dynamic so it *could* change!...
over 130,000 FTP users served!
^^^^^^^




"0_Qed" <nano.bot@shaysnet.com> wrote in message
news:40812FA5.13CD@shaysnet.com...
> TomG wrote:
> > my matched pair light up all the time <vbg>
>
> Geezus!!!!
>
> How "they" do =that= ????
>
> Care to 'share' your technique ???
>
> How do "they" activate ???
> Do you have to 'monitor' them ... or is activation awgamagic ??/
>
> BTW ... hows the implant doing ???
> Just asking ... no harassment intended ...
>
> Damn ... how come I've never come across this "feature" ???
>
> 🙂
> Qed.
>
> PS- Is =that= why you always carry a 100', 12vdc , jumper cable with you
> on service calls ... 2nd floor stuff , et al.
>
> PPS- Where can I get 100' jumper cable ???
>
> PPPS- Damn.
 
Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Apr 2004 18:12:01 +0200, "Jens C. Hansen [Odense]" <"Jens
C. Hansen [Odense]"> wrote:

>0_Qed wrote:
>> TomG wrote:
>>
>>>my matched pair light up all the time <vbg>
>>
>> Geezus!!!!
>>
>> How "they" do =that= ?
>
>http://www.mbreview.com/corsair40pro.php


Clearly a new interpretation of "flash" memory... just to make light
of the subject. Whoops! that went down like a LED balloon... ;-)


patrickp

patrickp@5acoustibop.co.uk - take five to email me
 
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