Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, so new information. Contrary to what was indicated above, or rather, what it seemed to indicate, this is not a policy that has been happening, it is a policy that is GOING to happen. So it's not been the case, it's GOING to be the case. That, I can more fully appreciate and believe.

The US Trade Representative on Friday granted a reprieve to the increased tariffs being levied at China-imported electronic goods. The exemption, valid for one year until 20th August 2020, includes some products that will be welcome to PC hardware enthusiasts, including motherboards, graphics cards, desktop cases, "mouse input devices" valued over $70, "trackpad input units" valued at over $100, and power supply units that output more than 500 W.

 

[Mezoxin]

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/1145932-used-psu-with-melted-satas/

another used unit with damnaged pins due to use of adaptors
Why would anyone need adaptors with an HX1200 , does mining even need more that 10 pcie connectors ?

 

[Karadjgne]

2 words. Starts with F and ends in No. Considering the draw mining cards in a pro setup use, that thing was adaptered like crazy. Guaranteed they were pushing every bit of juice that rail could supply, and Mebe then some. I'd have shipped it back with a large What the **** were you thinking trying to sell this?

 

[Mezoxin]

its strange that he is even asking if he can use it , a couple of days ago someone here on the forums was using his PSU although it produced smoke and was asking for advice for troubleshooting it by a multimeter to make sure it's still OK
https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/kernel-power-41-problem.3564871/#post-21521646

 

[Darkbreeze]

The world is full of idiots and not much more than that is required or necessary to explain why they do the crap they do.

 

[TimeWasterMaster]

Hello all,
new to this stuff, I am building my first pc. I think a 750W is the sweet spot for my needs and eventual future upgrades. So I've been reading (it's hard and dense, I don't understand most of it but I try) that Seasonic SSR-750PX would be a good one but it is sold out everywhere I've checked (except from Newegg at a ridiculously high price from an unreliable company). So I read some more and find that the Corsair RM750x is often top listed in many reviews.
I could go with that, buy it and that would be the end of it but I'm curious.
First, I'd like to know what are your recommandations.
And second, how can I differentiate a good PSU from a not so good one without going too far into details?

Not sure it's the right place to ask this question. Just move it as you see fit I guess.
Thanks.

Edit: Hopefully this https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...ferentiate-a-good-psu-from-a-bad-one.3566567/ will answer that

 

[4745454b]

A real review is the only thing I trust. Which is more than just using a kill a watt and plugging your tower into it. Because that might not put a 100% load on it. And until I see it can handle a 100% load, I'm not trusting it. A tear down showing me the heatsinks, main cap, fan, etc is also very helpful. But until I see these things any PSU is unknown on quality. Because you really can't know until you test it.

750W? Do you really need that? Odds are good you aren't ever going over 550W. Most units can get away with a 450W.

 

[TimeWasterMaster]

It's good that you mentionned a 'real' review, because most reviews I end up on are so basic (even for me who doesnt know much if not nothing) I just don't trust them. On the topic Phaaze started people already linked some interesting links I am trying to browse dispite that cold making my head a beach balloon.
Your question is a good one too. I'm quite sure I am being over cautious with a 750W. Somebody on another forum already pointed that out. Not sure I can mention it here but that same site estimated my needs to 434W. I also plan to add 2 old HDDs, another SSD in a near future, maybe more RAM (currently 16), maybe an optical drive, maybe another fan and for other future upgrades (the SSR-750PX has a 10 year warranty so upgrades are to be expected. I heard of new gen GPU or CPU, cant remember, with a dramatic decrease in power consumption but who knows what tomorrow will bring except for more trouble (yeah I'm an optimisitic)). I am not looking to throw money out the window but I'm not on a tight budget either. I dont mind spending a little more for something I know for sure will perform well and last long. The SSR-750PX was less than 200$ CAD. Fine by me.

 

[Karadjgne]

With everything mentioned on adding, you are looking at 60w ish area, chump change really, and most of that won't be in full use, you won't be running 2-3 hdds at full tilt, fans at full tilt etc, unless you have them in raid and doing something extreme with the optical burner, requiring full speed fans. Most times you'll just need a realistic load, like in a house there's a heater and ac, but both don't run simultaneous, you aren't maxing out all the amperage draw on every circuit etc.

If you add up the maximum for every component, with a quality psu just move to the next size up. So if you are maxing at 434w, a decent 450w is all you'll need, as generally you won't be seeing anything more than @ 50-70% of that usage, which puts the psu normally working at 50-70%, which is perfect for thermals and economy.

Possible future upgrades. The best FX was the 8350, a 125w cpu that ran upwards of 150w with a decent OC. AMD upgraded to Ryzen, and now you are looking at 104w cpus that even with OC or PBO, barely reach that. Gpus have gon massively down, you needed a 550w for even a small gtx660ti, and a 1660ti is twice as powerful and is happy as a clam on 450w.

So upgrades don't always mean more power. Most pc's, don't have a need for anything bigger than a 650w with a single gpu. Only the Intel 9900k/s and 2080ti does, or either of the Vega cards.

 

[4745454b]

There was a time Nvidia gave us the dumpster fire that was the 480. Large, loud, hot. SLI and CF were all the rage back then. Single cards would use about 200W or more just by themselves. Two of them could hit 300W or more. I think AMDs last "CF on a stick" GPU would hit 375W. You could plan for that to return if you wanted. But there has been a marked decrease in power draw. The 2060, which is a good mid range card only pulls around 150W. Even the 2070s and what not pull around 200W depending on model. Most systems really truly are fine with a 550W. Even with OCing. There isn't any harm in buying a larger model usually. But you don't have to go searching for one just because you are worried about the bad old days coming back. I moved from a 450W to a 550W simply because my 450W couldn't handle a 300W GPU. The odds of you running anything like that are rather slim.

 

[Darkbreeze]

If you want recommendations on a model for your own build, please start a thread and list your full hardware specifications there. It's fine to post a link HERE to that thread, but this thread is not for individual build recommendations. It's for discussion of power supplies in general, and platforms, and relevant information. It's for "is this PSU good", rather than, "What PSU should I buy for this build".

 

[4745454b]

2070s? Just stick with a good 750W or better. I'm not sure why you are going with a SLI setup but you'll need power for that. A single 2070 is fine on a 550W PSU.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I don't think he means 2070s as in multiple. I think he means as in 2070 "Super".

 

[Rogue Leader]

i7 9700K, NH-U12S, 2070s on a Z390 Aorus pro.
No OC, no SLI, no raid, no streaming, no full-reflection-glossiness-ambiant-occlusion-displacement-mapping-and-what-not rendering.
Blender (maybe some Maya), light photo/video editing, nothing on a pro level, 3A games (mostly action role-playing).

So from what I understand thanks to you guys, even a 650W would be overkill. Still, I can't help it but to be cautious (my mother's side) and stubborn (my father's side).
Now if I look at Tom's suggestion for best 650W PSU, another Seasonic (SSR-600TL) which looks fine ('Resilient to high temperatures', 'Fully modular', '4x PCIe connectors' with a very long warranty -12 years), except for the 'Not top-notch transient performance' and the 'Distance between peripheral connectors', it's more than twice the price of their best 750W proposal. I'm not sure as an average user that is what I would be needing.

I got 2 Seasonic (SSR-650TR and SSR-650PD2, somehow pricier than the SSR-750PX) and a couple of EVGA SuperNOVA from reviews I read.
Other suggestions?

Don't buy the SSR-600TL thats a fanless Prime unit. Its great in specific cases and environments. If you don't have that its a bad choice. Those other 2 Seasonic 650W units you found are a different platform (and one of them Titanium rated) and are arguably the best PSU you can buy in that wattage. Thats why they cost so much more.

Anyway, to Darkbreezes point this is not a place for PSU build advice, please start your own Thread.

 

[Karadjgne]

As to prices, most times that's iffy. Many times Vendors will put them on sale if they aren't moving, and will keep inflated prices on units that are in higher demand. That maximizes profits to them, while still showing they can move merchandise to parent companies or stock holders.

 

[4745454b]

Gah. I always forget about that card.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Gah. I always forget about that card.

I don't think normal 2070 can sli either. The 2070 supers can as they are basically a 2080.

 

[Barkfunklerbunk]

I find it a little mind boggling to peruse the completed builds on pcpartpicker and see a powerful $5000 system with a not so good cheap PSU. What is the logic in that? Spend all that money, and cheap out on a very important component. In this ecig forum that I am a member of, we are constantly having to preach about battery safety, and choosing reputable brands/models of batteries that have been tested. Maybe it is similar phenomenon with PSUs in the PC world.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

What is the logic in that?

The logic is that the PSU doesn't affect your framerate, so some people tend to cheap out on them.

Some people also don't realize that a good name brand doesn't make a PSU good.

 

[Barkfunklerbunk]

The logic is that the PSU doesn't affect your framerate, so some people tend to cheap out on them.

Some people also don't realize that a good name brand doesn't make a PSU good.

Well, it will drop your framerates to 0 if your PSU gets toasted 😛

I'm just very thankful for resources such as this forum. Sorry to jump in this thread, I just wanted to vent.. about a matter that really doesn't effect me! 😵

 

[Karadjgne]

I'm good with it. It's a totally valid point. Pcp is sorta setup decently as far as build process goes, so ppl just follow the queues. They'll have a budget, spend out on fast cpu, big cooler, overboard mobo, huge gpu, fancy ram, excessive storage, expensive case and have pennies left over for the psu.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Nothing wrong with you posting in this thread. That's what it's here for.

The "logic" to what you described, is the fact that most people in that scenario have money, but no brains or practical experience in designing and building systems so they take the advice of others who equally have no brains or knowledge.

The fact is, a faulty, weak or problematic power supply CAN, and WILL, affect FPS, so that logic holds about as much water as a cup with holes at both ends. Out of spec voltage or ripple, has an effect on graphics card performance. Fluctuations out of spec can affect performance, of everything, including drives, CPU, memory and the motherboard AND can have an affect on stability, which can definitely have it's own effect on performance.

The biggest issue here is that people don't see a review comparing the FPS of a system with a very good PSU to those of a system using a very cheap PSU, or any real world information on how often the system with the cheap PSU will fail, underperform, damage hardware or otherwise simply make life miserable at some point, so it not a consideration to them like the fact that they see the difference between two different tiers of graphics card does.

Basically, they believe it doesn't matter so long as it "works", but "works" is very subjective and is open to interpretation when it comes to the idea that a less expensive PSU probably WON'T "work" as long and will probably greatly increase the chances that some form of damage to your motherboard and graphics card capacitors sooner rather than later because cheap units rarely if ever have good ripple suppression and management and ripple heats caps which will absolutely cause performance issues or death of the component at some point whether soon or later.

 

[TimeWasterMaster]

Dark: Sorry, didn't mean to highjack any thread. Will do as recommanded. Don't hesitate to remind me if I do that kind of mistake again, I'm an honnest slow learner (not a smart-a**).

4745454b: 2070 super indeed.

Rogue: Thanks for the warning, I read the review for the SSR-600TL and figured out it wasn't for me.
For the other 2 Seasonic, what do you mean by 'different platforms'?
And yes, I got it the first time.

Kara: About prices, I'm not sure it's always that easy. See that SSR-750PX is popular (and out of stock in many places - contacted Seasonic and will not be available before february in NA if anyone is interested) and still its price remained low. It's one reason why it's often listed as one of the best-valued-psu.

 

[TimeWasterMaster]

Is it ok to buy a PSU from 4 years ago like the SSR-650TR for the more modern components (performance and connectors wise)?
I've read many reviews on this PSU from the beginning of this thread and they're all dated from 2016/2017.

 

[Karadjgne]

It's a Prime Titanium. There pretty much isn't any better unit. There's arguably some equitable, but the differences are so minute as to not bother with. It's one of those units where even advances in technology on brand new designs still can't top its performance.