Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

[NightHawkRMX]

I bought the EVGA BR500 for $50 with free shipping brand new, which I was surprised about since it's actually below the MSRP of $55 Tomshardware lists. Has dual PCIe 6+2 pins and sleeved black cables which is nice for this price.

It's hard to come by fairly priced PSUs anymore, just look at the other options at $50
https://ibb.co/dcxHMBb

The BR500 is currently powering a machine with a 2600k and a 2060, has no issues at all. Over the last 2 days, I played through the entire 2013 tomb raider (Steam says 18hr played but I think 1hr of that was previously logged) and it never skipped a beat.

I even clocked the 2600k to 5ghz with an unsafe level of voltage and overclocked the 2060 a bit and the PSU had no issues.

 

[Juular]

Not sure on the reliability of this review, but this is one i found:

What about these ?
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/bitfenix-bf450g-power-supply,5614.html

Bitfenix Formula Gold 650W PSU Review

The Bitfenix Formula Gold 650W is an affordable PSU that offers good performance and high efficiency. The cherry on top is its quiet operation. This unit's only compromise appears to be its native cable design.

www.tomshardware.com

BitFenix Formula Gold 750 W Review

The BitFenix Formula Gold 750 W is one of the quietest PSUs in the sub-$100 category, and it performs very well in all other areas. Its fixed cables are the only compromise - you clearly cannot have it all at such an affordable price.

www.techpowerup.com

BitFenix Formula Gold 750W Power Supply – JonnyGURU.com

www.jonnyguru.com

Does anyone know how different the EVGA BQ and BR are?

EVGA BR is apprently made by HEC, very similar platform to EVGA B 700W (lower wattages are different), be quiet! System Power 9, Cooler Master (just) Masterwatt and Corsair CV 650W (lower wattages are different).
Now EVGA BQ consists of three different platforms, sub 600W are Andyson M5, double forward with DC-DC, also used in Aerocool KCAS Plus, very meh stuff. 650/750W are the same platform EVGA BR most likely with some component changes and 850W is HEC too, similiar but a bit more robust platform (didn't see it being used anywhere but Aerocool KCAS M 850W).
Downline, EVGA BR isn't a terrible unit if it's cheap enough (which 50$ qualifies for IMO) but there are no reviews on it and i'd refrain to power anything but the very budget builds with it.

 

[King_V]

And I can agree with this. And to expand on that, somewhere in here there is an actual exchange of information between Seasonic and one of our members in which Seasonic specifically states that the Core series is their "builder" level unit now, to be considered below the Focus and Focus plus units but above the S12II and S12III models. So, much better than garbage but probably not what most users are looking for when trying to source a typical Seasonic offering.

I also agree though, that currently, you're lucky to even find ANYTHING that isn't a piece of trash OR if it's not one, isn't being sold for a premium that is 50 bucks or more above what it would normally sell for as of last November or December prior to things beginning to go off the rails.

Any chance this info can be inserted in the original post in the Seasonic section?

(you know, like you REALLY needed someone to ask you to do more work 😵)

 

[Darkbreeze]

Done.

 

[maxamillionfeettall]

There was a basic review of the seasonic core GC500 here. It's in russian, but we all know how to google translate I'm sure. Any opinions? (Was this "review" posted somewhere already? idk)

IMO, the heatsinks look a bit light, but the OTP is set at 625W for the 500w unit. The tan fiberglass pcb is to be expected as a budget unit, it's still ugly regardless. It's still a llc half bridge, so I'm sure it's not terrible. I'm mostly uneducated about the vast world of power supplies, forgive my ignorance.

 

[Darkbreeze]

You don't sound ignorant to me, compared to the majority of people who come around asking about power supplies, so give yourself a little credit at least that you're able to understand some of the advanced concepts involved with the platform components.

There are really no reputable reviews of the Core series and because Seasonic themselves have already said that these are a "builder series" unit we can assume that they probably slot in for Seasonic much as the VS or CV units slot in to Corsair's product stack which means, they are not time bomb dumpster fire type units but they are not anything that anybody would want to have to use with their 200 dollar motherboard and 300+ dollar graphics card. Beyond that, for most people, the details probably don't even matter that much. Who really cares beyond the point where the question "is this unit suitable" has already been answered with a big fat no.

 

[King_V]

And I can agree with this. And to expand on that, somewhere in here there is an actual exchange of information between Seasonic and one of our members in which Seasonic specifically states that the Core series is their "builder" level unit now, to be considered below the Focus and Focus plus units but above the S12II and S12III models. So, much better than garbage but probably not what most users are looking for when trying to source a typical Seasonic offering.

There are really no reputable reviews of the Core series and because Seasonic themselves have already said that these are a "builder series" unit we can assume that they probably slot in for Seasonic much as the VS or CV units slot in to Corsair's product stack which means, they are not time bomb dumpster fire type units but they are not anything that anybody would want to have to use with their 200 dollar motherboard and 300+ dollar graphics card. Beyond that, for most people, the details probably don't even matter that much. Who really cares beyond the point where the question "is this unit suitable" has already been answered with a big fat no.

Wait . . I'd kind of assumed that Core was a little better than that, but maybe it was just me reading too much into this. I mean, the S12II is generally accepted as "rock solid, but an old design" no?

I mean, I know the S12III so far is a big fat "nope," but if someone was building a PC, say gaming, mid-level stuff, but definitely using an add-in GPU, and they were stuck between choosing the S12II, or the Core, what would you recommend?

 

[NightHawkRMX]

The core SEEMS to be a cut-down focus, at least to me. It seems to be a far better unit than a S12ii/M12ii.

From what I understand the S12ii was generally well built and has a lot of pros. It uses mostly Japanese 105c capacitors and a fluid dynamic bearing fan. Also, it is 80+ bronze efficient, has active PFC, and has a 5 year warranty. Those features are better than many modern budget PSUs.
https://www.hardwaresecrets.com/seasonic-s12ii-bronze-520-w-power-supply-review/5/
But it's about a decade old, group regulated (no dc-dc) and lacks a lot of modern protections. I believe due to its lack of uvp protection and being group regulated, it can have voltages go out of spec in a modern PC where the 12v rail is loaded far more than any other rail. This can cause issues.

I have used a M12ii 520GM semi-modular PSU in a PC a few months ago. The PC was nothing fancy, sporting an i5 3550 and a GTX960, but the PSU never gave me any trouble, even though this particular one was likely produced 5+ years ago since it was semi-modular, unlike the newer fully modular M12ii evo. Meanwhile, I have a CX600 that is roughly the same age that was DOA thanks to a failed Chinese cap, unlike the nicer Japanese ones in the M12ii.

The Core GC seems to have a lot of pros. 80+ gold. 7-year warranty. LLC Resonant with DC-DC. Uses mainly Japanese 105c capacitors. A modern protection set. Looks like a high-end PSU from specs sheet. The review says it's performance is good.
https://occlub.ru/testodrom/42914-seasonic-core-gc-500-i-gc-650-obzor-100-bjudzheta-kuda-nuzhno
However, one point to the S12ii/M12ii is that the Core uses a cheap sleeve bearing fan rather than a longer-lasting fluid dynamic bearing found in S12ii/M12ii. Luckily if this fan fails It will be covered by the 7-year warranty. Also, the Core GC seems to use a single layer PCB, which isn't really an issue, but it is a way to cut costs.

 

[Juular]

Also, the Core GC seems to use a single layer PCB, which isn't really an issue, but it is a way to cut costs.

Entire Core lineup, GC, GM and GX.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Wait . . I'd kind of assumed that Core was a little better than that, but maybe it was just me reading too much into this. I mean, the S12II is generally accepted as "rock solid, but an old design" no?

I mean, I know the S12III so far is a big fat "nope," but if someone was building a PC, say gaming, mid-level stuff, but definitely using an add-in GPU, and they were stuck between choosing the S12II, or the Core, what would you recommend?

I'm no expert but I'd use the Core. The S12 is ancient in PSU terms.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Well, like I said, there are no reviews, so I guess it can go either way. Seasonic themselves, as noted elsewhere in this thread, are the ones who said that the Core units are "builder" series models and to me a builder series is about equivalent to a VS or an older CX, maybe a plain box style older Seasonic. If they are better than any of that, then Seasonic should revise their terminology to not call them builder quality units OR everybody else should INCREASE the quality level of what their builder quality units consist of.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Perhaps not a well-known source, but I did link a Russian review above.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Any review that I can't read without a translation, doesn't get read. Period.

Sorry Russia. Sorry China. Sorry, whoever else that applies to. That's just the way it is. Aris is not a native English speaker and he is able to speak and write in English to convey his reviews and data, so can most all of the people on the JG forum who do reviews in other countries, most of whom are not native English speakers either, so if somebody wants to be considered relevant and credible, and want the majority of the communities to bother with reading their reviews, they can learn to do so as well OR at the least have it done. Even so, I really have no interest in visiting links that end in .ru.

To much history there with unsavory behavior from those kinds of websites AND I don't support a country that limits their entire population to an intranet.

 

[King_V]

Well, like I said, there are no reviews, so I guess it can go either way. Seasonic themselves, as noted elsewhere in this thread, are the ones who said that the Core units are "builder" series models and to me a builder series is about equivalent to a VS or an older CX, maybe a plain box style older Seasonic. If they are better than any of that, then Seasonic should revise their terminology to not call them builder quality units OR everybody else should INCREASE the quality level of what their builder quality units consist of.

Given the gold rating (I know, it's just efficiency) and the 7 year warranty, I would guess that it's Seasonic creating a new level for "builder" quality. Given how crappy some "builder" stuff is, I'd say this is a very positive thing.

Any chance of getting a review of it on Tom's Hardware? I'd love to see Aris's take on the Seasonic Core.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I don't understand why nobody has done a review yet if they are any good. Why has Seasonic not sent out review samples to reviewers? Why have reviewers not used review sample funding to purchase them, not even one single one? They've been out for a while now, no reason I can see. There MUST be something more going on IMO.

Gold and warranty don't REALLY matter. We've seen a LOT of units with both gold (Or higher) and long warranties before that weren't very good. Just look at the EVGA NEX Supernova G1 units. They did not do well in reviews, especially not considering the cost of those units compared to other much better models, but had both Gold ratings AND a 5+5 year warranty (Extra 5 years if you registered it within 30 days of purchase). A score of 8 for performance on JG for the 650w G1 tells us a lot. Not terrible, but not good either.

I suspect that there has to be some reason why Seasonic has not sent review samples out considering these have been out since early 2019. Even some of the older CX units had reviews, as have many MUCH lower quality models.

 

[Juular]

Any review that I can't read without a translation, doesn't get read. Period.

Ever heard of Google Translate ?

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Ever heard of Google Translate ?

Its even built into chrome. How else would I read it?

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, I've heard of it. I've used it. It sucks. Just check the JG forums if you want evidence of it. Even the foreign speaking PSU review guys over there can't stand it, and there are actually discussions about it on their forum. Google translate likes to mangle The mask's reviews in particular.

But regardless, there is no compelling reason for me to have to ever go visit a Russian or Chinese website to read a review. If the manufacturer wants me, or most users, to ever read a review of their product, they will make sure it gets into the hands of the sites and reviewers that will do so and provide a review in English. If they don't, then frack 'em, I didn't want to buy or recommend their unit anyhow.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

It's not perfect of course, no translator is. However, it is good enough to get a general idea of what they are saying.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with you guys. If I have to go through all that, it's simply not worth my time and USUALLY when I've had to go through all that in the past, it has turned out to be a review that is well below the acceptable standards of what we've come to expect anyhow, which again, makes it not worth the time to bother. I'm sure there ARE some exceptions, but not enough to spend any additional time worrying about it.

If they can't be bothered to translate it into English and ensure that it finds it's way somewhere that the mainstream PSU crowd can EASILY find and consume it, then they are probably creating it only for a relatively small regional market anyhow.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

If I have to go through all that

It's as simple as clicking the link and reading, at least for me. Google Chrome automatically does it and honestly, it's not that bad to read.

I'm not saying that review was great as I am not an expert on differentiating a good review from bad one myself, other than in cases where they don't even bring out any testing equipment.

However, a reviewer being from a different region that speaks a different language does not make it any worse.

Not every other country needs to translate their articles into English. So what if the article is meant for Russians? That doesn't mean it does apply to Americans since we have the exact same product available, granted we run on different voltages.

Oh and I just realized your pfp is RGB, nice.

 

[Juular]

Honestly, you don't even need to translate a PSU review in most cases, it's the data that speaks and if there are no good data then there are no need to translate it at all. It's the case with most Russian reviews, they're good only for internal pictures, some Chinese ones are good, FCPowerup for example, but otherwise i kinda agree with you that Google doesn't do a good job on translating Chinese, but again, data speaks for itself.

 

[Saga Lout]

The only thing you need to know about a Chinese PSU is the brand from which it's been copied. Intellectual Property doesn't seem to be in their language.

Given all that and the fact that the PSU is the most important part in your PC, I wouldn't go near a Chinese clone.

If China sues me for this comment, I'll stop eating their food.

 

[Juular]

The only thing you need to know about a Chinese PSU is the brand from which it's been copied.

You don't seem to be very well aware that pretty much all PSUs are actually made in China, even those who claim to be Taiwanese are either just have HQ or engineering team there and still manufacture in China (like Seasonic) or have very small factory in Taiwan for some manufacturing stages whereas for the mast part manufacturing still goes on in China (like HEC). Not to mention that there are plenty of solid fully Chinese OEMs with a good product stack who don't copy stuff from anyone and develop it themselves ...

 

[Aeacus]

Few things to point out since people still seem to get Seasonic lineups wrong.

It seems to be a far better unit than a S12ii/M12ii.

M12II is comparable only to S12II 80+ White PSUs since M12II PSUs are also 80+ White and produced in the same time period.

The actual S12II talked about is S12II 80+ Bronze and it's M-series equliveant is M12II EVO 80+ Bronze.

Or to put it short:
S12II 80+ White and M12II 80+ White are equal.
S12II 80+ Bronze and M12II EVO 80+ Bronze are equal (almost, see below).

But it's about a decade old, group regulated (no dc-dc) and lacks a lot of modern protections.

Another thing to point out is that not all S12II / M12II EVO PSUs are group regulated. M12II-750 EVO and M12II-850 EVO are actually DC-DC regulated.

Also, just because PSU is group regulated doesn't instantly mean it's bad. Sure, the group regulation is older technology compared to the DC-DC but there are newer DC-DC PSUs out there that actually are much worse than the pinnacle of group regulation technology seen in S12II/ M12II EVO PSUs.

As far as protections go, those protections that were required back then, Seasonic also added to their PSUs.
It's like saying '55 Bel Air is a bad car since it doesn't have airbags and seat belts. While in reality, car itself isn't bad at all but at that time, those protections weren't required.

Also, those "a lot" of protections S12II / M12II EVO group regulated PSUs are missing are actually only two: OCP and OTP.
M12II-750 EVO and M12II-850 EVO do have all 6 protections present: OPP, OVP, UVP, OCP, SCP, OTP.
With that, i won't say that they miss "a lot" of protections.

I believe due to its lack of uvp protection and being group regulated, it can have voltages go out of spec in a modern PC where the 12v rail is loaded far more than any other rail.

Well, if you load group regulated PSU in a way they aren't designed to handle, you'll get out of spec voltages. However, in his S12II-520 review, OklahomaWolf had this to say:

While the first CL test did see the 12V climb out of spec, the second CL test did not see a corresponding out of spec increase on the 5V. It gets close, but does not go out of spec. This unit is remarkably well behaved for a group design.

This is what I like to see - not many rigs these days will present a load like the one from test CL1. Such loads went out with the Pentium III and a few select Socket A motherboards. CL2, on the other hand, is possible on modern rigs, and I love that I did not see out of spec numbers there. Well done, Seasonic.

On to the voltages in the five progressive tests. Again, the S12 II looks to impress, with abnormally stable (for group regulation) readings. 5V is within 1% regulation, and the other two voltages come in just outside of 1%. Very nice indeed.

Review: https://web.archive.org/web/2015010...odules.php?name=NDReviews&file=print&reid=185