Discussion PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

[Aeacus]

Other than being annoying it really isn't a problem, but it IS annoying, but to say "why haven't they fixed it" is admitting we don't really understand what it is.

Surely there are PSU platforms out there that are more prone to coil whine. So, why even use those platforms? Heck, platform is tested in factory well before it goes into mass production. Better to redo/scrap the coil whining platform prior of mass production, than going ahead with it.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Perhaps you should educate their engineers on that principle. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be willing to listen to me on, well, anything. LOL.

 

[fishyjack]

I ended up RMA'ing it. Coil whine I could deal with - I've had instances where a new piece of hardware had coil while but it went away after a few weeks of being used. However, over the 3 days I was using the G6 it started making a new consecutive noise every day. It started making an electrical scratching/clicking noise that could be heard 3-4 feet away from the PC, *over* the coil whine. I also noticed it ran awfully toasty under game loads, the grate was always uncomfortably warm to the touch even with eco mode off.

Swapped back in my P2 and aside from it's loud as heck fan everything is back to normal and it never goes above room temperature even under heavy load.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I'm glad.

As I was trying to say, any electrical device that makes enough unexpected noise that it is annoying or uncomfortable, should be warrantable. No company puts out devices assuming "it's ok if this makes annoying sounds or frequencies". They don't. SO. Right arm. LOL

 

[Lucky_SLS]

Any info on Thermalright's new PSU lineup? I cannot find any reviews online.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/products/power-supply/#sort=price&A=725000000000,2050000000000&e=6,5,4&m=113

the pricing is competitive. ATX 3.0 and 16 pin power connector...

 

[Aeacus]

Any info on Thermalright's new PSU lineup? I cannot find any reviews online.

This thing?
Review: https://www.f14lab.com/2023/08/review-thermalright-tr-tg1200-1200w.html

Btw, non-English review. Use Google Translate or similar. But it has video too, showing the guts of it + plenty of pics.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

This thing?
Review: https://www.f14lab.com/2023/08/review-thermalright-tr-tg1200-1200w.html

Btw, non-English review. Use Google Translate or similar. But it has video too, showing the guts of it + plenty of pics.

Thanks a lot!

Thermalright advertises that it passes 200% transient power spike as per atx 3.0 spec but the review you have linked says it passes only upto 150%. And that's for the 1200W model. Hopefully all the TG series uses the same platform...

Should be fine for <300w models like the 4070ti I guess.

But 5 years warranty. The TP series offers 7 years

 

[Aeacus]

Thermalright advertises that it passes 200% transient power spike as per atx 3.0 spec but the review you have linked says it passes only upto 150%.

And that's why we need reviews. There's been plenty of false marketing to make poor products look good, but only the in-depth review can show how things really are.

5 year warranty at current date is something i even doesn't look towards to. 7 year warranty maybe, when there isn't better PSU to choose from. While 10 year warranty is the norm at current date.

Speaking of warranty, Seasonic just extended the warranty for their Vertex lineup, from 10 years to 12 years,
announcement: https://seasonic.com/news/post/vertex-series-warranty-upgraded-to-12-years/

This is the 2nd time Seasonic has done this (warranty extension). 1st time was with PRIME units (including the ones i have), which used to have 10 years of warranty, while now have 12 years of warranty.
And this warranty extension applies to all units within series, both already sold and to the ones at stores as well.
So, if you want reliability, look towards Seasonic.

 

[Hyedwtditpm]

I'm about to buy a new rig. I'm a bit out of the loop about the new hardware.

Rig will be based on AMD 7900X + B650E motherboard or Intel 14700K. Both latest gen CPUs. coupled with 4070Ti or 4080.

Iwas told I need a PSU with ATX 3.0 standard and 12 pin power cable.

This is the one I could find . Will this be enough? Do I need anything else?
FSP Hydro GT PRO 850W ATX3.0 PCIe5.0 80+ Gold

Hydro GT PRO ATX3.0(PCIe5.0)

Hydro GT PRO series with 80PLUS gold certificate, over 90% high energy conversion can less heat and LLC topology 450V, 105°C Japanese main capacitors make Hydro GT PRO series a perfect solution for the most extremely harsh working environment. Hydro GT PRO series eliminates the problem of...

www.fsplifestyle.com

 

[Darkbreeze]

You don't "need" a PSU that has that plug. The graphics card SHOULD come with an adapter you can use with any standard ATX PSU that is of sufficient quality, capacity and has at least two 8 pin PCIe auxiliary power connectors. But, you would be wise to start a thread and ask the question there. If you link to it I'm sure one of us will chime in with some help and recommendations.

 

[King_V]

I can't recall if this has come up, and there's a lot of pages to go through, but, while the Corsair CX has apparently gone away, and the CXM is the "replacement" for it . . I'm seeing some references to a 2023 CX model.

I clearly missed something... what is that? Is it different than the CX models that were around before? Something else? How does it compare to the previous CX, the CXM, the CXF, etc?

 

[Darkbreeze]

I am under the impression, from what I read, that the 2023 "CX" are the same platform as the CV which is not good. I think that is right, I'll have to look into it further but pretty sure that's what the feedback on it was. Either way, even if it's not the CV, it's bad and should be avoided. And, it is completely different from the CX-M units, which still aren't great, but are better than those.

 

[Aeacus]

How does it compare to the previous CX, the CXM, the CXF, etc?

There are two CX-M versions, the initial (from 2017/2018 i guess) and the 2021 model,
pcpp comparison: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/3hkwrH,9HTp99/

As of how CX 2023 compares to others,
pcpp comparison: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/FdRFf7,3Hwkcf,9HTp99,f2fxFT/

Now, i haven't looked into platform differences but apparent differences are;
CX-F - fully-modular + has RGB fan in it
CX-M - semi-modular
CX 2017 - fully-wired + 140mm long
CX 2023 - fully-wired + 125mm long

There are connector amount differences as well.
All-in-all, none of them are good enough for gaming rigs. Maybe only good enough for office builds.

I am under the impression, from what I read, that the 2023 "CX" are the same platform as the CV which is not good. I think that is right, I'll have to look into it further but pretty sure that's what the feedback on it was.

You found this feedback?
link: https://tweakers.net/voedingen/corsair/cx-series-2023_p1559420/reviews/

It's written in Dutch, but in English, it means:

Do not buy! This is a relabeled Corsair CV550. So a diet with group regulation. Definitely not a good successor to the old CX550 that had an excellent LLC + DC-DC platform from CWT or Great Wall. With this CX550, Corsair steps back 10 years in time. What the hell are they doing at Corsair!

Positives
no

Negatives
group regulation
low quality
sleeve bearing fan
noise at >50% load

 

[--SID--]

From the same author https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/77346788#77346788

 

[Darkbreeze]

That's not the one I saw, but it says about the same thing. Either way, if it is what it seems to be, it's about as appealing as a 2010 era TR2.

 

[Darkbreeze]

So, as I mentioned elsewhere, I've been working on this for a while and I'm just pulling back a corner of the car cover so to speak for a second to let those of you who've stuck around a minute despite the fact that I haven't done much at all with this thread for a while have a peek and offer any input that might be relevant. This is just a small sample and yes, it WAS inspired by the old RealHardTechX recommendations list, but there is input from many years worth of communications with people like JG, some of the folks who used to work on HardOCP but are now The FPS review, my own very time intensive investigations and parsing of data, Nvidia and AMD's own data sheets, data from ASUS, Zotac, Gigabyte and other board partners, and hopefully, before it's all said and done, some of you as well. I may even reach out, I know, I know, to some of the "Cultists" because I want it to be something that is useful to everybody and doesn't have to be "knocked" just because it's here or on any particular site. As much as possible anyhow.

So, it's going to be a full on PSU requirements list much like what RealHardTechX used to have, but they are defunct now, but it is not directly representative of all their recommendations. There are a bunch of reasons for this. For many cards, they never included any consideration for transient spikes/Power excursions, and these have been around since, well, a long time. Yes, they are worse now for most models than they used to be but even back in the AMD 200 series days, or even before, they were becoming problematic. A lot of problems with the dual GPU AMD cards were due to this and it took years for people to figure out why, besides just being so damn hot. So anyhow, gonna be something like this when done but if there are other criteria, and I mean, it REALLY needs to be something I haven't thought of to include it, let me know. I can always add a column if it's THAT important. I will also probably revise the front page at some point after I get this done because it's way out of date and needs it. To all who've stuck around to contribute to this thread, no matter what you think I think of you, thank you. It benefits everybody and it's really, well, that's what it's about.

Smaller than actual image of course. You'll want to expand it if you want it bigger.

 

[Aeacus]

So anyhow, gonna be something like this when done but if there are other criteria, and I mean, it REALLY needs to be something I haven't thought of to include it, let me know.

How about those GPUs, where some of the SKUs have PCI-E power connector?

E.g GTX 1650 mostly, doesn't require PCI-E power connector, but some AIB models do have it.

Like MSI GTX 1650 Gaming X 4G (GDDR5),
specs: https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/GeForce-GTX-1650-GAMING-X-4G/Overview

Same with MSI GTX 1650 D6 Gaming X 4G (GDDR6),
specs: https://www.msi.com/Graphics-Card/GeForce-GTX-1650-D6-GAMING-X/Overview

Also, would you differentiate separate versions of GPUs, like;
GTX 1650 GDDR5 and GDDR6
RTX 2060 6GB and 12GB
RTX 3060 8GB and 12GB
RTX 3060 Ti and Ti LHR
RTX 3070 and LHR
RTX 3080 10GB, 10GB LHR and 12GB LHR

Oh, i also see that you've added GTX 1080 Ti SLI config as sole instance from Pascal architecture.
Why add that and no other GTX 10-series GPUs? I'd either remove it, or add entire GTX 10-series lineup as well. And while those GPUs are old, they are somewhat relevant, especially on 2nd hand market.

Edit:
One more thing, RTX 30-series may have the 12-pin PCI-E power connector. E.g RTX 3080 Fe for sure has it, instead of two 8-pin PCI-E connectors. Are you adding this clause also into your list regarding GPU power connectors?

Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/nvidia-geforce-rtx-3080-unboxing-preview/4.html

 

[Darkbreeze]

Right, so, no. Not going to allow for EVERY possible configuration. What I AM going to do is make it clear in the preamble that I CANNOT account for EVERY model out there and that people need to understand that if you have a model that is specifically a high power draw type model, like the Kingpin stuff, you NEED to look at what the board partner has specified, in addition to what I am specifying, and then make a decision which I hope will include (If reasonable) adding maybe another 100w to the recommendation. Like most things in life, and especially in tech, nobody can account for EVERY fracking iteration or possible combination of parts.

If for example you are running a high TDP HEDT type system, well then of course you will need to add something to the recommendations, no matter WHO made them, because that is NOT a typical system. I will plainly state that because I know we cannot expect everybody to have "common sense". We can however, expect them to read, and if they don't, then that is their problem.

 

[Darkbreeze]

And to your other question, no. Clearly you did NOT pay attention to the fact that I said this was a work in progress. It is not even remotely "done" so I am not excluding ANYTHING, just haven't got there yet. But thanks for the input.

In fact, for models that support more than just two card CF or SLI, I am including, as much as possible, x3 and x4 recommendations as well. Are we cool now? LOL.

 

[Lucky_SLS]

@Darkbreeze maybe replace 900/800/600W with 1000/850/650W in the recommended PSU wattage column?

we used to have 600W models, but i cannot think of any good units for today's standards. I know that you mean "minimum wattage required" in that column but this just creates confusion for newbies.

 

[Aeacus]

Clearly you did NOT pay attention to the fact that I said this was a work in progress.

I DID pay attention that your list is in progress and not complete, hence why i asked with my edit;

Are you adding this clause also into your list regarding GPU power connectors?

Regarding RTX 30-series, i'd still put an asterisk to those whereby indicating that they may come with 12-pin PCI-E power connector (if too much work to check each and every SKU of RTX 30-series). So that people can look it up for themselves for their version of a GPU.

Same asterisk can be added to GTX 1650, whereby indicating that the GPU may come with 1x 6-pin PCI-E connector.

Adding asterisk doesn't give you much additional work, but it clarifies a lot. Else-ways (without asterisk), the list shows misinformation, whereby e.g: saying none of the GTX 1650 comes with power connector while in fact, some GPU versions do come with power connection.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Right, I get that, but given the fact that SOME OEMs have gone back, recently, to offering some somewhat ok models that are on the 600/700 etc. capacities, I'm going to stick with what the data says. If nothing "reasonably good" is available, then of course, a person will want to opt to round UP to the next highest available capacity and often that is the best thing anyhow. If somebody opts to round down, then they will be going against what I will expressly recommend against in the preamble. And again, if they won't read, then that is their problem.

 

[Eximo]

Yeah, that stood out to me as well. Haven't seen a 900W PSU in ages.

On the bigger cards at least, should probably look at a few AIB cards. A quick look at partpicker shows 19/28 models for the 3080Ti use 3 8-pin PCIe connectors. So the majority there use 3 and not 2.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I DID pay attention that your list is in progress and not complete, hence why i asked with my edit;

Regarding RTX 30-series, i'd still put an asterisk to those whereby indicating that they may come with 12-pin PCI-E power cable (if too much work to check each and every SKU of RTX 30-series). So that people can look it up for themselves for their version of a GPU.

Same asterisk can be added to GTX 1650, whereby indicating that the GPU may come with 1x 6-pin PCI-E connector.

Adding asterisk doesn't give you much additional work, but it clarifies a lot. Else-ways (without asterisk), the list shows misinformation, whereby e.g: saying none of the GTX 1650 comes with power connector while in fact, some GPU versions do come with power connection.

Let's hold off on getting into anything until after the list is actually done. Unless it's actually something that requires it's own column on the spreadsheet, because if there IS, I'd rather not have to add that all in after everything else is done. If there is not, then I'd rather do edits than worry about it right now because it would likely only affect specific models or maybe a specific architecture.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yeah, that stood out to me as well. Haven't seen a 900W PSU in ages.

On the bigger cards at least, should probably look at a few AIB cards. A quick look at partpicker shows 19/28 models for the 3080Ti use 3 8-pin PCIe connectors. So the majority there use 3 and not 2.

Yes, I will spell that out too but thanks for the input. Connector specifications will be based MOSTLY on FE models. But I will make some allowances, and have, if IN GENERAL the board partner models require something different. I am NOT going to create a new row for every model that has an especially power hungry card out there. As I said, that will be up to the user to look at the OEM product spec page and make their own determination on what they need. If you think I'm going to make another row for every Kingping model out there, for example, you're nuts. LOL.

This is a GENERAL recommendation, with caveats, and I will clearly spell out the caveats in the preamble once I get to that point. Cool man.