PSU tier list 2.0

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If it has 360W on the +12V rail, it's an old design. Not an attempt to be deceptive and not necessarily junk. The ZM500ST is from 7 years ago. The Akasa you're thinking of is even older. By your logic, a Seasonic S12/M12 is junk too. Sure.. it's not something I would use today. It uses old technology that doesn't support newer CPU's sleep states and is inefficient at very low loads. But that doesn't make it junk in the same way a 1953 Corvette isn't junk even though it gets 13 miles to the gallon.

What IS junk would be a PSU that out-right LIES to you about being a 500W because it has "300W on the +12v, 180W on the +3.3V and +5V combined and 20W on the +5VSB" because all they're doing is adding up the rails.

I see a difference between "old tech" and junk. I'm not going to recommend "old tech", but I'm not going to say it's junk if it's not junk.

 
Well to be truthful, the S12/M12 was decent, back in the day, but has been discontinued for some time. So to find one today, you won't be seeing the 396/408w, as it'll be used. Chances of finding NiB are slim. The GB was a good step forward over the HT design, but even those are discontinued. So where's the line? Old tech? Definitely. Reliable for sure, built solid. But if you want to pair a gtx1070 with a 500w psu, I'd not think about ever saying the S12 500 was good enough at 396w, but the S12-II at 480w is a different story.
If it can't do the job, it's junk, worthless, don't even bother trying to use it, just like those psus you refer to as fabrications and outright lies on ability which are common enough in the less than $30 range at full retail prices.
I guess it's just a matter of perspective.
 
Even S12II is old tech. Anything that doesn't use DC to DC for the +3.3V and +5V rails and doesn't pass ErP Lot 6/Energy Star would be "junk" by your definition, therefore even the S12II is junk.

You can't just draw a blurred line of what's junk and what's not based on how much is available on the +12V rail. If one 520~550W has 480W on the +12V rail and the other has 360W and they both cost the same, than the one with 480W is a better value, but they both can be equivalent in build quality.

And the S12-II/M12-II is missing OCP and UVP because it uses a HY-510N IC. At least Enhance uses the PS223 which does have OCP and UVP. So if you really want to get down to it and split hairs... The Seasonic is actually junk for more legit reasons than "old tech". 😀
 


Which is anything with DC to DC. Dead give away without a proper review is if 95%+ of the PSU's total power is available on the +12V rail.
 


Good rule of thumb to know.
 


Yes,

I wouldn't buy a non Haswell Certified S12II or M12II TODAY if I needed a new PSU. There is the EVO Version that is, but they are more expensive than the older units current pricing. But then you can buy a newer current unit for around the same price range give or take.

I do have one older M12II 620W Non EVO that is 7+ YO and another M12II 650W (Non EVO) that is Haswell Certified that's 4 YO. Both are currently still being used and work fine, both on older systems, 1st Gen I7 and 3rd Gen I5 respectably.

However the new system is running an X-Series 650W (Newer Version).

I seem to think Seasonic is slowing replacing the current X-Series with the Prime Gold as the 2 high wattage models are already discontinued.





 
For a Ryzen, the Haswell c-states compatability of newer psus is a moot point. I see many new builds with the lower range gpus like a 1050ti and R3 or lower R5 using a $40 S12-II 520. For the needs and ability, it's a win-win proposition
 


Certainly for not first world countries I agree.
But for first world countries , I can usually spot something like a G unit under 60 dollars, that I would recommand over a 40 dollar s12ii unit.
 
The argument still stands that S12ii protection circuitry kind of sucks. No undervoltage protection on the 12V rail, which means it could potential fry your computer compared to a PSU that has UVP on that rail. And there is no overcurrent protection. And of course no OTP, but that missing is more common. These are simply facts.

And I know some people don't seem to care about protections, but for electronics I think it's important. I don't know the exact pricing of how much protection ICs cost for manufacturers, but I'm sure Seasonic saves a good deal of money using the HY-510N protection IC compared to better ones found in a lot of units that don't have "Japanese capacitors".

There two reviews, which a folk on Jonnyguru showed me, expose the flaws of the S12ii that other reviews failed to expose because of their limited testing.

http://ru.gecid.com/power/seasonic_s12ii-520_bronze_ss-520gb_2015/?s=all
https://nl.hardware.info/reviews/5926/seasonic-s12ii-v2-520w--620w-review-met-nieuwe-fan

At 500W load the S12ii 620W was 59dB. 59dB! That's so freaking loud. Both the 520W and 620W ones seem to be loud. Of course, lighter loads aren't nearly as bad, so that's fortunate, but it's still something to consider.

So you know, I guess you have to consider some things.
 
It's funny. I have an older M12-II, the semi-modular version, sitting right next to my feet, pushing an OC 3570k and a 660ti that's at 124% OC. And even as hard as I have ever pushed the pc in games or testing, I have yet to ever be able to distinguish the possible sound of the psu fan over the system fans, gpu fans, aio fan etc.
Now I'm sure in a pc that's really underpowered, where the psu is maxing out long before the rest of the system, then it'd be possible to pinpoint the noise, but most systems barely get to @70% psu when pushed hard, and usually sit @30-50% at not all usage.
So max output noise on a psu fan at 100% usage is just one of those facts that really doesn't carry much weight with me. If it was 60db at a 50% load, that'd be a different story.
 
Protections are like an insurance policy. They're there if you need them, and you hope to never need them.

When I was saying the S12/M12-II was "junk", I was largely being facetious. If you can use a sliding scale of junkiness based on +12V rail capability, I can call something junk for not having all of the safety protections available. 😉
 
OCZ Technology OCZGXS850: How would you rate the quality of this power supply? It was installed originally in the following seven year old system: i7-930 / 12 GB RAM (2GB x 6) / GTX 750 / 1 TB HDD.

hgIdD1C.jpg
 
If it was installed in the beginning, 7 years ago, then you are already suffering from capacitor degradation. To what extent is unknown, but the longer it goes on, the worse it gets until one day it just goes bang. At which point you'll need to do 2 things. Replace the psu anyways, it'll be toast, and pray that any protections in the psu actually worked and no further damage was done.

It's 7 years old. It had a good run. Time to retire it.
 
True, don't believe that unit has UVP, so it'll prolly over amp everything. Hard to say for sure without getting in there with a multimeter, I don't trust most voltage readers for the 12v rail, both my psus (M12-II and Evga G2) read at 8.1v according to Hwmonitor lol. But I'd suspect that unit would be running closer to 11v atm.
 



Which is a good reason to buy the newer updated quality units if buying TODAY for a new system.

I think the older units are fine for older machines if replacing units, but I wouldn't put one of them in a new machine.

We are seeing a rash of recommendations for the outdated units to be used with the latest hardware.

Now there was a Seasonic M12II that is Haswell Certified while not EVO, I have one now, a 650w unit I got about 4 years ago. Good luck finding one of those today.


 


The one I have is. 😉

Haswell Certified.

Model SS-650AM


There was the Old M12II 620 Model SS-620GM Non Haswell Certified.

And the M12II 650W Model SS-650AM that I have that is Haswell Certified.

Then the M12II 620W EVO Model SS-620GM2, also Haswell Certified.
 
Only the 750W and 850W models that use DC-to-DC circuit design are Intel Haswell Processor Ready. Look at the text under the Intel Haswell Processor Ready logo. The 520W and 620W models are group regulated circuit design.

Seasonic_M12_IIBronze_EVO.jpg
 


That list is from May 14, 2013 and isn't for the full modular M12II Bronze EVO Edition. It's for the discontinued semi-modular M12II Bronze Series.
 
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