PSU tier list 2.0

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Voltage regulation measures how closely the PSU's DC output voltages adhere to the voltages defined by the ATX12V Power Supply Design Guide Specification across the full range of the PSU's output load. A PSU with perfect voltage regulation would have no variation in its output voltages no matter what load is placed on it.

Ripple voltage is an artifact of the AC to DC conversion process by the rectifier. It appears as a high frequency (i.e. choppers switching frequency or a harmonic of that frequency) AC voltage that is superimposed onto the DC output voltages. Capacitors are used to filter out the ripple but its not perfect so some ripple does still get through. Insufficient filtering in the PSU just means that the attached devices own filtering circuits, if they have a filtering circuit, will have to deal with the high levels of ripple. If the ripple is excessive it can cause damage to the capacitors by overworking them on the attached devices (e.g. motherboard, graphics card, HDD's controller board, etc.)

-K0888
 


That's a plain High Power Element Smart in a 750W flavour with Su'scon on the secondary. Here's a review of the 700W version in NZXT Hale82 V2: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NZXT/HALE82-700-V2/4.html
It doesn't achieve good voltage regulation, pretty bad crossload, awful hold-up time, bad transient load reaction, and okay ripple (except in the unrealistic low-12V heavy-minor rail crossload). The caps won't last long, though the strong fan may help them last a little longer. The fan is apparently noisy too.

turkey3_scratch said:
What would the purpose of a CPU, for instance, having capacitors be in when supposedly the PSU already outputs the proper voltage and current to the CPU?
The PSU doesn't output the proper voltage to the CPU, though - it only supplies 12V. Processors work on much lower voltages, so they have to convert it to the correct values using the voltage regulation modules on the motherboard around the socket (and then further adjusting it using their internal converters, as is the case with Intel CPUs since Haswell).
 
So it seems, according to this person, the EVGA G2 Series does use Capxon capacitors but only the inline caps in the wires. http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/505709-evga-you-sneaky-lying-bastards/ but really those people on that forum make too big of a deal over it.
 


the 1000 G2 and 1300 G2 also use capxon on the modular pcb.

 
The last guy explains it very well:

These Capxon inline capacitors are actually the reasons that these units have such good ripple, so you guys should be thanking Capxon for providing these units with great ripple. Without it, it'd be similar to the GS series. Anyways, it's only on the cables and nothing too serious to concern about. Seeming as these capacitors handle generally smaller loads than the ones inside the PSU, it shouldn't be a big deal. And besides, it's not the end of the world replacing a cable if something would go wrong. It's a lot better than replacing a whole unit.

Put it this way, even if one of these capacitors does break, ripple will still be great with probably 40mv on the 12V rail and 20 on the 5V and 3.3V rails.

Don't worry about it.
 


Bwahaha! That guy is me. I remember reading a Jonnyguru review on the GS series which mentioned the G2 had inline capacitors which is why the GS has slightly less fantastic ripple.

Does Jonnyguru check the inline caps? because @darkbreeze I don't think the guy on LTT is lying about it.
 
I think you're confused Turkey. My point was, the cabling that comes WITH the G2, that has the inline capacitors is unlikely to be the case if you buy custom sleeved aftermarket cables from a third party source, but the unit will still have exceptional properties because the modular board DOES use ALL Japanese caps. The only place there are capxon capacitors in in the cabling, which is just an added benefit that offers exceptional ripple. Without them, it just has very good ripple. Either way, it's better than most units you can buy.

I wasn't trying to indicate ANYBODY was lying. I never even mentioned anything remotely related to anybody lying.
 
On another note, I'm wondering if there has been a change of OEM on the old style non-80plus VP-450 without APC. I've just had a second unit die that was less than three months old and was only being used on a very low power HP prebuilt system that doesn't even have discreet graphics. I had replaced it in my mom's rig simply because the Bestec unit that came with her PC was 5 years old and I figured it was time for a change since it was already surprising it had lasted this long.

I convinced her that it was a good idea and that the VP-450 was a solid replacement for her unit with no discreet graphics and an older Athlon II 640 quad core. Today it wouldn't power on or do anything at all. Pulled the side panel after checking all the wall connections and made sure everything was kosher, and it was. Plugged an S12II in to the board from outside the case, boot. Plugged the VP-450 back in and powered on. Fan spun twice then turned off.

This is the second VP-450 in as many months as I had another one die in a client machine that had been in there less than four months. It was a rather low end business machine with no demanding loads or modern low power state requirements. That seems fishy to me. Either there has been a change or there was a bad batch of units that were shipped out. Both had identical failure methods. Both worked fine when turned off the night before, next day, no go except a brief whirl of the fan. I don't know if this is an FSP quality control problem or if they have just been sitting on the shelf too long, or if they've had a change of OEM for these units, but enough is enough.

I can't afford to have this happen. Like they say, a sample of one, "eh", two in a row with the same failure in different machines, that's enough for me to convict regardless of Torres' review from back when. Too bad as I have been a fan of these units in the past for low power machines.
 
It's not a particularly good power supply one way or another, so it's only natural that it dies more often. It should live at least some time when loaded lightly, though - it's a shame you didn't check for the cause of failure.
 
The first unit was already RMA'd. The newest one is sitting right beside me. I plan to test it tomorrow. Anything specific you think I should look for aside from basic voltage tests? It has absolutely zero burnt electrical odor. Like I said, when triggered for power, the fan is powered for like 1 second and then nothing. I just planned to pin out the wiring and check output.

Gabriel Torres 2009 review gave this unit high marks, and I've seen JG threads where he indicates it's recommended for low power systems. I've never had any troubles using them in these kinds of builds in the past, but two failures in a short period of time, on different units and in two separate machines is more than coincidence. Both ordered through the same vendor. And regardless of how it stacks up against better units, it should absolutely be suitable for replacement of OEM units in prebuilt systems that don't have discreet graphics, but after two dying I don't know.
 
I agree with DB. The VP-450 received good marks, including on teardown, so it has to raise questions either of QC or of a fundamental change such that the new units aren't the same PSU. DB's experience makes me glad I didn't buy one recently...
 
Such a letdown. I have to find a new go-to low cost unit for mainstream machines now. Unfortunately, most units of any real quality are geared for enthusiast machines and come with a premium or have features/cables/costs not really necessary on OEM replacement scenarios. The VP-450 was a perfect fit in most these cases but I'm a fan of the old fool me rule and won't be giving them a third opportunity. I would however like to see if I can determine why this unit failed.
 
For mainstream units that don't need a PCIe power cable, check out the low-end Seasonics. Most are Haswell-compatible. Check SATA connector count though, I think one or two of the older ones might only have two. They're around $34-$36 shipped; less if you buy a few of them at once.
 
The problem is that there isn't any review of the VP450 that would let us fully judge its electrical performance. The old review at Hardware Secrets doesn't measure in detail many important factors.

To see how well a PSU performs, we should at least see:

a) voltage deviation across the whole load range, and not just the highest value - we have to know at which point the voltage was furthest away from the nominal value; whether it happens at low load or high load and what kind of deviation can we expect at the usual load levels.

You should be able to calculate it from the tables, or see on the graphs like this (simple example):
SauXa6H.png


b) voltage drop across the load range - measures how far the voltage dropped from low load to full load. Diodes and MOSFETs on motherboards and graphics cards can stand being fed 12.5V or 11.70V constantly, as long as it's in spec. But when they are getting 12.4V one second, then suddenly 11.65V for a moment, then again 12.3V or so as the power consumption in the system changes, they wear quicker.

You can output 12.4V at 10% load and 11.7V at 100% load - that's fine and in spec, but as you jump from low loads to high loads, the voltage change is significant.
If you were outputting the same 12.4V at 10% load and 12.3V at 100% load, then the worst-case voltage deviation is the same (3.3%), but the voltage drop across the load range is far smaller.

Here's how it can look:
vKMCf7k.png

They both stayed within ~2% of their nominal values, but the right one could hold its value much tighter.

c) ripple - how much ripple and noise is there at the outputs at different load levels, both high-frequency and low-frequency.

d) If the website has the right tools, they may also measure transient load reaction - how much the voltages drop when you hit them with very brief loads. Good results are a combination of voltage deviation and voltage drop, because the values cannot drop below the ATX specifications, and it's also preferable when the total drop is as little as possible.
HardOCP tests transient response, as does crmaris.

For example: you're outputting 12.20V on the +12V rail, and you hit it with a transient load. It dropped to 11.72V. The drop is 0.5V, but it didn't drop outside of the ATX spec.
On another PSU, you're getting 11.70V. When hit with a transient load, it drops to 11.39V. The drop is lesser than the first unit, but it dropped out of ATX tolerance range.


e) Another thing that reviewers are usually able to measure is hold-up time, which measures how long the PSU can keep the voltages in spec when the power is cut. Say, you live in a neighbourhood with frequent brown-outs - a PSU with good hold-up time will work fine when the input AC isn't fine for 13ms, but a worse PSU will just shut off. You lost your unsaved work, documents, and some hard drives can be hurt too.





In the VP450 review, we can only see the following:

a) ripple and noise (for all load levels) - it reaches 75-80mV, which isn't low.
b) voltage deviation - only that it never exceeded 3%, the actual values across the loads are unknown,
c) exhaust temp, efficiency, power factor - not directly related to the power your components get.

We don't know one of the most important things - how the voltages changed over time, so we have no way of knowing at which point did the voltages deviated furthest from the nominal value, and also how much they dropped over the full range. Reading that they never deviated further than 3% is not enough, because that leaves a lot of different possibilities:


We don't know hold-up time, crossload, or transient response either.

So from the important things we only know ripple, which is high - and also that voltages don't deviate further than 3% at any point. The other most important characteristics are unknown, so that's a shame.
Good marks for efficiency, ability to output full power and working OCP are nice points, but the most important things you look at in a power supply are voltage behaviour and ripple suppression.


There's also the build quality side to this, but you can all read that - the fan is sleeve bearing, and the secondary capacitors are Capxon KF and Teapo.

So, I wish Gabriel Torres had included more detailed results in this review, rather than only ripple analysis and single-digit voltage regulation comment, because we simply don't know how good this PSU is - and if we only go by ripple (from the performance measurements), it's over the half of the ATX limit.
He later started including load/voltage tables in his reviews, so that's nice.
 


Yes, this is one of the problems I run into. Without purchasing additional Molex to SATA adapters, most of the low cost/low power units have only two SATA connectors and for systems with an SSD, HDD and optical drive, which is pretty standard fare, they don't work.
 

Have you got any other equipment other than a DMM?
 
There are some - for example, crmaris (formerly The Lab, now TechPowerUP and recently Tom's Hardware) has the best, most accurate testing equipment of all power supply reviewers, and he tests the widest range of PSU performance factors.
 
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