Push vs. Pull Tested

[13thmonkey]

this image http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/8882/psubottom05en.png is wrong

 

[FinneousPJ]

Here, I made a picture of Pull to demonstrate:

See how the fan is pulling the air through the heatsink instead of pushing?

You might want to add citations to some bits where you reference other people's material like Tom's and stuff.

 

[spentshells]

Cool air does not come out of heatsink sir warm air does.

 

[FinneousPJ]

Well that depends on how effectively the heat sink is cooling. Stick a huge cooler on top of a low power Sandy Bridge Pentium and I assure you there will be cool air coming from the heat sink no matter what the load. You could say ideally there is cool air coming from the heat sink.

 

[spentshells]

Well that depends on how effectively the heat sink is cooling. Stick a huge cooler on top of a low power Sandy Bridge Pentium and I assure you there will be cool air coming from the heat sink no matter what the load. You could say ideally there is cool air coming from the heat sink.

No it does not you are simply not thinking this through.

 

[FinneousPJ]

If your computer is not blowing cool air at idle your cooling configuration is insufficient. I have "thought it through" - even tested it: when I had a custom water cooling loop it blew cool air even at full load, overclocked - the maximum CPU temperature was 27 centigrade.

 

[13thmonkey]

It would blow ambient + idle wattage power transferred to the ambient air. Which at idle should be only 15-20W, which would equate to only a 2-3C above ambient as air output temp. Not warm, but not cooler than ambient which is where spentshells is going.

the heat energy taken up by the heatsink will be the same regardless of the heatsink, it'll be of a lower 'grade' i.e. more dispersed and lower temp with a bigger capacity heatsink (heatsinks should in my opinion be rated according to watts able to be dispersed at standard airflows and delta T's) . I say bigger and not better as the quality judgement in better may not work out if you had a heatsink the size of a case for instance for instance it would be massively oversized and therefore probably not better for the job at hand.

 

[FinneousPJ]

Nobody said cooler than ambient lol, that would impossible :/

 

[13thmonkey]

Its the definition of 'cool air' though, spent was being picky I think, your meaning and your words were a little at odds.

 

[FinneousPJ]

Its the definition of 'cool air' though, spent was being picky I think, your meaning and your words were a little at odds.

In which dictionary? So the ambient air can't be "cool" by your definition? :lol:

Cool is defined by Merriam-Webster as lacking in warmth - that seems rather subjective. When I put my hand behind my CPU cooler at idle the flow of air feels cool, as in sufficiently below body temperature.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

Nobody said cooler than ambient lol, that would impossible :/

Interesting to achieve yes, but impossible?
there are some of us that would beg to differ hehe
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/275185-11-exploring-ambient-water-cooling

*Edit, @Muffin spellcheck dude, dissipate 😛


Moto

 

[spentshells]

If your computer is not blowing cool air at idle your cooling configuration is insufficient. I have "thought it through" - even tested it: when I had a custom water cooling loop it blew cool air even at full load, overclocked - the maximum CPU temperature was 27 centigrade.

if the air being pushed out was cool why would it need to be pushed out in the first place ? Why push away cool air when you are trying to cool something ?
Come on guy think about it a little harder


More on this Muffin I am pretty sure the heatsink dissipates (as per moto) the heat not the fan. The fan pushes away the heat dissipated by the heatsink

 

[spentshells]

Interesting to achieve yes, but impossible?
there are some of us that would beg to differ hehe
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/275185-11-exploring-ambient-water-cooling

*Edit, @Muffin spellcheck dude, dissipate 😛


Moto

Nice.

 

[FinneousPJ]

Don't patronize me, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[FinneousPJ]

Interesting to achieve yes, but impossible?
there are some of us that would beg to differ hehe
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/275185-11-exploring-ambient-water-cooling

*Edit, @Muffin spellcheck dude, dissipate 😛


Moto

We're talking about air cooling 😛

 

[spentshells]

Don't patronize me, I know what I'm talking about.

It does not seem that way at all. If the air is cool why is it being pushed away ? Because it is not cool it is warm.

 

[Motopsychojdn]

@Finneous, I wasn't patronising you man, you hadn't specifically said air cooling and claimed lower than ambient was impossible, I responded on that basis,
sorry if offence was caused, it wasn't intended
Moto

 

[FinneousPJ]

@Finneous, I wasn't patronising you man, you hadn't specifically said air cooling and claimed lower than ambient was impossible, I responded on that basis,
sorry if offence was caused, it wasn't intended
Moto

No, not you, the guy with the mask 😀

 

[spentshells]

No, not you, the guy with the mask 😀

Hey I see what you are trying to say after reading other peoples comments.


MUFFIN as for your images the top one should not show cool air coming out as the air is being warmed by passing over the heatsink and exhausted from the case because it is warm not cool right ?

 

[FinneousPJ]

It seems there's some sort of miscommunication going on here. I'll try and elaborate my points the best I can.

a) there's no chance the air coming out of a heatsink is cooler than ambient. By cool I mean if the heatsink is doing it its job if you put your hand in there it should feel cool.

b) The function of the heatsink is not to blow warm air out. The function of the heatsink is to pull air from the CPU by means of heat pipe technology in this case, then dissipate the heat through cooling fins. If the air coming out the heatsink is hot, that actually means it's not dissipating the heat fast enough. Obviously that's not a problem as long as the heat plateaus at a reasonable level.

 

[amuffin]

Here, I made a picture of Pull to demonstrate:

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2310/pullv.png

See how the fan is pulling the air through the heatsink instead of pushing?

You might want to add citations to some bits where you reference other people's material like Tom's and stuff.

I'll be borrowing that.... 😍

 

[amuffin]

Hey I see what you are trying to say after reading other peoples comments.


MUFFIN as for your images the top one should not show cool air coming out as the air is being warmed by passing over the heatsink and exhausted from the case because it is warm not cool right ?

Wouldn't be considered "cooler" air? Right? Correct me if I am wrong here....

 

[BVKnight]

Performance Differences:
Push offers 2C-4C difference in performance when compared to Pull. This is on average a 2.8-5.6% difference between the two. Even though the temperature difference doesn’t seem like a lot, it can be crucial to users who want the best possible temperatures.

As the data shows, when a fan pulls hot air from a heatsink, it will perform better than a heatsink pushing the air. Keep in mind these temperatures will never be reached during real world applications and uses such as gaming and common tasks like internet browsing. However, temperatures will be different between both fan setups regardless of the task being given. Remember, temperatures may be different for everybody, this is because ambient temperature is different in many parts of the world.

I have underlined where there is an error. This statement should be reversed. You say later on that Push is more effective than Pull. You should also add a second mention of the word "fan" in the second part of that sentence, so it doesn't sound like the heatsink is what is pushing the air.

This goes beyond the original scope of your experiment, but I would like to see what difference there is between mounting the heatsink vertically (like you have it now) versus horizontally, with a heatsink model that uses heatpipes. I have heard that the "wicking" effect that the heatpipes use is reduced by gravity when you have them mounted vertically, which is why I have mine mounted horizontally.

 

[spentshells]

It seems there's some sort of miscommunication going on here. I'll try and elaborate my points the best I can.

a) there's no chance the air coming out of a heatsink is cooler than ambient. By cool I mean if the heatsink is doing it its job if you put your hand in there it should feel cool.

b) The function of the heatsink is not to blow warm air out. The function of the heatsink is to pull air from the CPU by means of heat pipe technology in this case, then dissipate the heat through cooling fins. If the air coming out the heatsink is hot, that actually means it's not dissipating the heat fast enough. Obviously that's not a problem as long as the heat plateaus at a reasonable level.

B is wrong I am sorry if I was coming off as rude earlier but you are not being helpful since this is a science project.

The fan blow the heat off of the heat sync this the air coming off of it is warmer than it was upon intake *truth

 

[spentshells]

Wouldn't be considered "cooler" air? Right? Correct me if I am wrong here....

Exactly warmer air is coming off the back of the heatsink else where is the heat going ?