Question about ATI cards

[rhysdalegend]

Well iv just built my very first computer 5 months ago,

i7 920
ud4p
6gb ddr3
1tb

etc, well my gtx 285 that i had first went faulty, in the end i was offered credit as a suitable card could not be found.

So now i have 500(AUS) to spend on a card (running off 7800gt atm)
I was looking at some cards and saw the new HD 5000 range, and everyone was saying how great they were.
Why are they so cheap? i was looking at the ATI Radeon™ HD 5870 for only 200dollars!

My mate at school said to always go for nividia as there trustworthy, that ati cards run hot, ati cards are known to crash alot etc

Im slightly leaning towards ATI cards

So are they great cards?

 

[EXT64]

Yes, they are fine. Some do run hot, but they were designed to. And if you get ones with good cooling, they are not hot at all. I think the new 5800s are quite cool. Driver problems are very rare now and more or less on par with NVidia, but these are still fairly new cards and all new cards have some bugs. And where do you see a 5870 for 200 (AUS) ?!?

 

[AMW1011]

Wow, are you sure you can get a 5870 for only 200 dollars?

Oh and your mate doesn't know what he is talking about. The 5870 runs cooler than the GTX 285 and ATI cards do not tend to run hotter or crash more than nVidia cards. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an ATI card or a nVidia card. If you think that I'M the biased one, then check the sig. because I'm running nVidia as we speak.

And yes the 5000 series are great cards.

 

[rhysdalegend]

Yes, they are fine. Some do run hot, but they were designed to. And if you get ones with good cooling, they are not hot at all. I think the new 5800s are quite cool. Driver problems are very rare now and more or less on par with NVidia, but these are still fairly new cards and all new cards have some bugs. And where do you see a 5870 for 200 (AUS) ?!?

Wow, are you sure you can get a 5870 for only 200 dollars?

Oh and your mate doesn't know what he is talking about. The 5870 runs cooler than the GTX 285 and ATI cards do not tend to run hotter or crash more than nVidia cards. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with an ATI card or a nVidia card. If you think that I'M the biased one, then check the sig. because I'm running nVidia as we speak.

And yes the 5000 series are great cards.

Thank You for the replys, i will now go for a 5870 for 600dollars, yea i kinda got the models mixed up lol i accidentally put the hd 5770

So the HD 5870 or a gtx 295?
there in same price range kinda with the 295 bit dearer

 

[AMW1011]

The 5870 is about the same as the GTX 295 in peformance, but since the GTX 295 is an older card and the 5870 a new one, the 5870 will gain some performance yet. Also the GTX 295 is obsolete since the 5870 uses DX 11, something the GTX 295 can't. Lastly, the GTX 295 is a dual card and not a single card meaning it is more likely to have problems like glitches, crashes, performance issues, and heating problems then the 5870.

The 5870 is better in every way, just get it, it is worth more money than the GTX 295 easily.

 

[EXT64]

Yep, agree with AMW. I see few reasons to get the 295. If you really wanted an NVidia card, wait the 2 months to 6 years for the GTX300 line to come out.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Thank You for the replys, i will now go for a 5870 for 600dollars, yea i kinda got the models mixed up lol i accidentally put the hd 5770

So the HD 5870 or a gtx 295?
there in same price range kinda with the 295 bit dearer

here's what THG says:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2464-7.html

"Essentially two conjoined GeForce GTX 275s, the GeForce GTX 295 offers very notable gains over the Radeon HD 5870 in the great majority of game titles, although the Radeon will use far less power doing so."

If you expect that you will upgrade GFX again before XMas 2011, I'd say get the 295. If you expect to keep the card longer than two years, better future proof yaself as, if DX11 turns out to be "the next big thing" , you'll be left out once DX11 goes mainstream in early 2012

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

So the HD 5870 or a gtx 295?
there in same price range kinda with the 295 bit dearer

Well the GTX295 definitely isn't worth more money, it's a card for right now, not 6 months from now.
The HD5870 ties it on performance, but beats it in features and longevity.

"Anyway, the new ATI card seems to be a better buy. It is more economical than the dual-chip flagships of the previous generation and is free from their main drawback – the dependence on software support for multi-GPU technologies."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5870_16.html#sect0

Seem to be little reason to go with the GTX295 at this late stage of the game.

 

[rhysdalegend]

Well the GTX295 definitely isn't worth more money, it's a card for right now, not 6 months from now.
The HD5870 ties it on performance, but beats it in features and longevity.

"Anyway, the new ATI card seems to be a better buy. It is more economical than the dual-chip flagships of the previous generation and is free from their main drawback – the dependence on software support for multi-GPU technologies."

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/radeon-hd5870_16.html#sect0

Seem to be little reason to go with the GTX295 at this late stage of the game.

The HD 5870 it is, this will be my first ati card, hope it turns out good! lol my first actual gpu was a gtx 285 which died after 2 months of fun, so cant wait.

Seems there all sold out, looked all round, seems ill have to wait a bit ):

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Well depending on your motivation the HD5850 is a little more than equal to the GTX285 in performance, and more on features, if you prefer not to wait, it's solid and you might be able to save yourself some money if you wanted to game sooner rather than later.

You could also buy the GTX295, but it depends on your needs/wants and supply/demand.

 

[AMW1011]

here's what THG says:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-graphics-card,2464-7.html

"Essentially two conjoined GeForce GTX 275s, the GeForce GTX 295 offers very notable gains over the Radeon HD 5870 in the great majority of game titles, although the Radeon will use far less power doing so."

If you expect that you will upgrade GFX again before XMas 2011, I'd say get the 295. If you expect to keep the card longer than two years, better future proof yaself as, if DX11 turns out to be "the next big thing" , you'll be left out once DX11 goes mainstream in early 2012

With all due respect, that makes no sense. Those "notable" gains aren't very notable and besides, the 5870 will get faster with time.

There is no sane reason in this world, no intelligent reason, to get a GTX 295 over a 5870. The quality of the actual gaming will be the same, because the 5870 doesn't suffer from the multi-card minimum framerate problem, the 5870 wll gain performance in time, and the 5870 runs cooler, uses less power, and has DX11. If you are so inclined you can also overclock the 5870 by amounts unthinkable on a GTX 295.

 

[xaira]

ati developed a bad rep because there drivers were not so good fro a while, but theyre just fine now, ur sure its not the 5770 ur seeing for $200?

anneway, go nvidia if you can, ive started recommending them since theyre the underdog for the moment, gtx275 is a wonderful card, and i find nvidias control pannel is easier to use than catalyst.

 

[EXT64]

They're aren't the underdog yet in overall sales, so I see little reason to pity them yet.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

ati developed a bad rep because there drivers were not so good fro a while,

As bad as the GTX295's that still gets "0 fps" in 3 games tested?
Persistent driver issues is a thing of the past and still very limited to both ATi/AMD & nV (and intel and Matrox and S3), and both have immature drivers at launch but the GTX295 is almost a year old (year since paper launch), so it's not like they are clean, especially about the cards we're specifically looking at.

anneway, go nvidia if you can, ive started recommending them since theyre the underdog for the moment,

Why would you recommend that? You're saying that people should offer bail-outs with their hard earned money? How about sticking to the best fit for the task at hand. I don't care who the underdog is instead try to recommend the best fit. If you wanna recommend an underdog, how about MATROX or S3? Supporting nV for not brining out something to compete with AMD doesn't help anyone. A most improtantly a GTX275 would definitely be a big step BACKWARDS for him as he's replacing a GTX285.

For me the two cards (GTX295/HD5870) are very close, and neither is a 'bad choice', it essentially comes down to GMC vs Ford and whether you value OnStar or Sync, etc. But the HD5K is the new model with all the new features, and the GTX295 is last year's refresh model, which does mean that going forward there are worth differences in the two beyond the PR checkboxes.

The other thing is as he goes forward into the future, far better scaling in adding a second cheap HD5K versus trying to find another cheap GTX295 and then the poor scaling of Quad-Fire.

They're both good, but it just doesn't make much sense to recommend the GTX295 nowadays unless he can't get his hands on the HD5K and he needs something soon-ish/now.

 

[xaira]

is it just me or did i see (running off 7800gt at the moment)? and yes, i know that a 5000 series would be best for op, but nv partners are loosing money, or arent making as much as they were, and theyre cards are perfectly fine, its not like a lack of dx11 or ifinity would kill the op, bailouts arent just up to the govt, so as long as the 5970 is ontop, ill b recommending nvidia and as long as intel is ontop ill recomend amd, xcept 4 phenom, because there was an actual fault with the product, but once the prod is find i dont c an issue\

 

[JofaMang]

Competition needs to be born of mutual threat, not underdog support. Success needs to be rewarded, and used as a beacon for those who are unsuccessful. Without competition, we all lose everytime. Rewarding an underdog for failure is de-evolutuionary. There are products that deserve your money for what they are, not what they used to be, or what they can only dream of being.

If Nvidia offers me a superior product, that isn't priced out of the stratosphere, I will buy it. If they don't, I won't. Everythig is as it should be.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

is it just me or did i see (running off 7800gt at the moment)?

Did you bother to read the rest of the message, ie: "well my gtx 285 that i had first went faulty, in the end i was offered credit as a suitable card could not be found.", so as a replacement the GTX275 is a big step backwards for him.

and yes, i know that a 5000 series would be best for op, but nv partners are loosing money,

Who cares? They've been losing money for over a decade on all sides of the equation, read about Hercules dropping out of the market back in the Radeon 9700 era. It's not the OP's job to bail these guys out because they have no product, it rewards st00pidity, not someone who has brought out a new product and fallen short even, which might be a far more noble thing to support than supporting a company that has done little recently to advance their own line.

so as long as the 5970 is ontop, ill b recommending nvidia and as long as intel is ontop ill recomend amd, xcept 4 phenom, because there was an actual fault with the product, but once the prod is find i dont c an issue\

Then as long as you do that, I'm going to point out that people like the OP should ignore anything you have to say because you have an agenda not in keeping with the OP's needs, and your advice is as bad if not worse than a fanboi or troll. [:thegreatgrapeape:5]

Simple concept, reward good work by recommending the best product, don't recommend a POS because you have some personal agenda.

 

[sinny1]

@ xaira: please do not recommend to people things just because they're "underdogs," people, especially me, ask for recommendations/suggestions because we want the best bang of our bucks (that's also many of the articles are about)

@ rhysdalegend: i would go for the 5870, like many had said, it is a little weaker than the 295, but it has better features and the dx11 will save u from having to get a new video card in the future for dx11 games, i almost bought a 295 off someone for about $350(it was cheap and the 5870 werent in stock, so it was very reasonable to get the 295, but there were some delay on the other end, so i bought the 5870 right when newegg has them) i've been running the card for about a week now, and it is totally awesome! oh and the 295 is still a little bit more expensive than the 5870... don't know what nvidia is thinking... maybe the 5000series is still low on supplies? but still...

 

[EXT64]

They can't sell the 295 for any less and make money off of it (if they are even now). Its only purpose is to technically exist and be 'slightly' faster than a 5870. It is not meant to actually be sold any more.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

With all due respect, that makes no sense. Those "notable" gains aren't very notable and besides, the 5870 will get faster with time.T

Argue with the THG reviewer not me.

There is no sane reason in this world, no intelligent reason, to get a GTX 295 over a 5870.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/batman-arkham-asylum,2465-11.html

and the 5870 runs cooler, uses less power

Odd how many posts I remember reading where and temperature were non issues when when comparing a 295 and a 4870x2

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=711&pageid=22

Sorry, but I happen to agree with the THG reviewer and think both cards are quite viable choices. I couldn't criticize anyone for choosing the one that best fit their needs. Since we won't be seeing other than token support (read "I can put on the box that I am DX11 compliant but I didn't really invest anything into it") for DX11 till Fall 2011, DX11 compatability is really not that important..

THG's November "Best GFX cards for the Money" roundup includes only 2 category "wins" for an ATI 5xx series cards whereas the ATI 4xxx series cards take 10 wins and nVidia takes 4 wins ? Seems THG doesn't think DX11 is all that important over the near future. Again, given the choice between the argument you have presented and those THG roundup results, I gotta go with THG on this one.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Odd how many posts I remember reading where and temperature were non issues when when comparing a 295 and a 4870x2

Not really, considering the faster card also used less power and thus generated less heat and also lower temps, so what exactly was Odd about that?

Other than it doesn't really have anything to do with this situation where the power and heat differences are quite significant and the performance differences are nowhere near as significant, therefore the tie breaker is the things people focus on.
Pretty easy to see why it gets more mention than when there was a distinct advantage for just one solution.

Since we won't be seeing other than token support (read "I can put on the box that I am DX11 compliant but I didn't really invest anything into it") for DX11 till Fall 2011, DX11 compatability is really not that important..

Got any links or reviews to back up that time line? Seems like the nV line about it for the Fermi fans.
Interesting how PhysX offers no more than 'Token support' for physics and a pretty dead future, yet you cheerlead that pretty heavily.

For someone who's advocating upgrading before Xmas 2011, it's interesting you would recommend the one solution that would have little benefit from a dual card configuration, and have little resale value in the DX11 future after already having a higher purchase price.

So what's it that's favouring the GTX295 again? ~5% performance difference in some games?

 

[michaelmk86]

If you are so inclined you can also overclock the 5870 by amounts unthinkable on a GTX 295.

Do you kwon that the GTX295 OC better than the HD5870? The GTX295 can be overclocked about 17% and the HD5870 about 10%.

 

[xaira]

but how much power does the 295 use in comparison i wonder

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlL4aombWyo

ps, buy nvidia at least until fermi hits

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Ive already given links that show 10-20% driver improvements on perf for both nVidia and ATI cards after 1 year.
So, the 295 already is used up, whereas the 5870 is just starting to come into its own.
The 5% that the 295 does win in will disapate, and itll lose in other games, thus making it a lessor option that runs hotter, uses more power and has no current option, DX11.
Id only recommend a 295 for those who refuse to buy ATI

 

[EXT64]

Do you know the ETA on the 9.12 driver set? I'm curious to see if the potential shown in the Betas made it through to the final set.