Question about short folks dual wielding ...

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To partially get rid of the penalty for dual wielding, you use a small
(or tiny) weapon in your off hand.

Halflings and gnomes are small beings, and treat all weapon size
classes as one larger; can't wield large, medium are two handed, small
are one handed, and presumably tiny are treated as a small weapon.

It seems that for a short dude(tte) to eliminate the same partial
penalty, (s)he would have to wield a tiny weapon in the off hand. Is
this true?

MadKaugh

 

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kerchmar.randy@epa.gov wrote:
> It seems that for a short dude(tte) to eliminate the same partial
> penalty, (s)he would have to wield a tiny weapon in the off hand. Is
> this true?

According to the manual, yes.
--
My NWN Work So Far: http://tinyurl.com/6xy2f
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- Tip from Doom3 Manual

 

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kerchmar.randy@epa.gov wrote:
> To partially get rid of the penalty for dual wielding, you use a small
> (or tiny) weapon in your off hand.
>
> Halflings and gnomes are small beings, and treat all weapon size
> classes as one larger; can't wield large, medium are two handed, small
> are one handed, and presumably tiny are treated as a small weapon.
>
> It seems that for a short dude(tte) to eliminate the same partial
> penalty, (s)he would have to wield a tiny weapon in the off hand. Is
> this true?

Indeed. That's what tiny weapons are for. An elf ranger may wield a
long sword/short sword combination; a halfling ranger will have,
instead, a short sword/dagger combination. (As examples.)

 

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<kerchmar.randy@epa.gov> wrote in message
news:1104445306.466893.52400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> To partially get rid of the penalty for dual wielding, you use a small
> (or tiny) weapon in your off hand.
>
> Halflings and gnomes are small beings, and treat all weapon size
> classes as one larger; can't wield large, medium are two handed, small
> are one handed, and presumably tiny are treated as a small weapon.
>
> It seems that for a short dude(tte) to eliminate the same partial
> penalty, (s)he would have to wield a tiny weapon in the off hand. Is
> this true?
>
> MadKaugh
>

Yes. When I started my halfling rogue she was going to use a rapier and
dagger. No luck there, as the rapier is 2h for her.I then tried two
shortswords, but that didn't work either, due to the size penalty. In the
end I gave up and read the manual, and now she is quite happy with
shortsword and dagger.

The main problem with this combination is low damage, as she gets no
strength bonus. This has been partially offset by a couple of levels of
fighter and the ?weapon specialisation? feat, which gives her a +2 to damage
with the shortsword. When she was starting out she had a few fights where
the only way she could harm an opponent was with a critical.


--
Merlin

"There are 2 rules to being a success in life: 1. Never give out all the
information."

 

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<kerchmar.randy@epa.gov> wrote in message
news:1104445306.466893.52400@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> To partially get rid of the penalty for dual wielding, you use a small
> (or tiny) weapon in your off hand.
>

BTW, this is slightly inaccurate. If the off-hand weapon is light, the
penalty for both hands is reduced by 2. A light weapon is one that is one
size rank or more smaller than the character using it*. i.e. Tiny for small
creatures (halflings and gnomes) and tiny and small for medium creatures. If
you could have an ogre PC you could dual wield a greatsword and longsword
with the same penalty as a gnome with a shortsword and dagger.

*Except the rapier, which for some reason counts as a light weapon when
wielded off-hand by a medium creature.


--


Merlin

 

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Merlin Fradley wrote:
> *Except the rapier, which for some reason counts as a light weapon when
> wielded off-hand by a medium creature.


Err...no. The rapier counts as a "light" weapon for use with the Weapon
Finesse feat. It does not count as a "light" off-hand weapon. A medium
creature dual-wielding with a rapier in the off-hand will incur the
additional -2 penalty for using a medium weapon off-hand.
--
Barry Scott Will
Pyric RPG Publications
http://www.pyric.com/

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

Hong wrote:
> It's just unfortunate that this thread wasn't titled "Question about
dual
> wielding short folks". Now _that_ could have spawned some fascinating
> discussion.

Right now, I'm dual-wielding my short f.... wait, no way I'm going to
finish that sentence. That's just not right.

 

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On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 05:04:24 GMT, Barry Scott Will
<nwn_usenet@cavecreations.net> wrote:

>
>Err...no. The rapier counts as a "light" weapon for use with the Weapon
>Finesse feat. It does not count as a "light" off-hand weapon. A medium
>creature dual-wielding with a rapier in the off-hand will incur the
>additional -2 penalty for using a medium weapon off-hand.

It's just unfortunate that this thread wasn't titled "Question about dual
wielding short folks". Now _that_ could have spawned some fascinating
discussion.


--
Hong Ooi | "COUNTERSRTIKE IS AN REAL-TIME
hong@zipworld.com.au | STRATEGY GAME!!!"
http://www.zipworld.com.au/~hong/dnd/ | -- RR
Sydney, Australia |

 

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Hong Ooi wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 05:04:24 GMT, Barry Scott Will
> <nwn_usenet@cavecreations.net> wrote:
>

> It's just unfortunate that this thread wasn't titled "Question about
dual
> wielding short folks". Now _that_ could have spawned some fascinating
> discussion.

I think the short folks would count as a large weapon, so you couldn't
dual wield them with the available races. 'Tis a shame. The game really
needs this ability. "I parry your blow with my halfling and smack you
with my gnome!"


Madkaugh

 

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everlast wrote:
> kerchmar.randy@epa.gov wrote:
> > It seems that for a short dude(tte) to eliminate the same partial
> > penalty, (s)he would have to wield a tiny weapon in the off hand.
Is
> > this true?

> According to the manual, yes.

Can you cite a page? I could not find it spelled out in detail, which
is why I asked the original question. All the manual says AFAICF is
"small weapon in the off hand".

MadKaugh

 

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Barry Scott Will wrote:
> Merlin Fradley wrote:
> > *Except the rapier, which for some reason counts as a light
> > weapon when wielded off-hand by a medium creature.

> Err...no. The rapier counts as a "light" weapon for use with
> the Weapon Finesse feat. It does not count as a "light" off-hand
> weapon. A medium creature dual-wielding with a rapier in the off-
> hand will incur the additional -2 penalty for using a medium
> weapon off-hand.

How this works for a medium creature is spelled out pretty well in the
manual. Two hand wield has a penalty based on the size of the weapon in
the off hand, not the weight. The rapier is a bit tricky, but the info
is there.

How weapons work for a halfling or gnome is not clear. The manual says
"treat weapons as one size larger" but leaves it up in the air as to
when this is relevant. Well, some things are obvious. You flat out
can't hold a large weapon anymore. (Except a large crossbow. Go figure.
The stirrup and crank are positioned for a medium character, but you
can load it, too!) And you will need two hands for medium weapons. But
how they work with the feats is not clear.

I asked the one question I had the best answer for, the one the manual
seemed to address; can someone confirm that a short guy has to wield a
dagger or some such in the off hand to get the reduction of the two
weapon penalty.

How Weapon Finesse works for a halfling or gnome is not clear to me,
either. Since strength means the same thing for any size creature, it
makes sense that "light" would as well. So finesse ought to work just
like it does for medium folks, which leaves you the odd effect of the
rapier, a two handed finesse weapon. But I am not sure of this, there
are other possible interpretations. The manual doesn't say that Weapon
Finesse or Light Weapon are different for short folk, but is this weak
confirmation or an oversight?

There is no in-game indication of when you have it right, either. It
would be helpful if offhand penalty weapons and non-finesse weapons
(when you have the feat) had a color background - your character should
know if the weapon feels right.

MadKaugh

 

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Barry Scott Will wrote:
> kerchmar.randy@epa.gov wrote:

> You know, it takes about ten
> minutes to run a trainer module
> and check this out for yourself.
..
..
..
> There, I saved you ten minutes.

I would not have used a training module to analyze the game, so you
saved me more than ten minutes. I guess I'll download a trainer. Thanks
for the tip and info.

MadKaugh

 

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Archived from groups: alt.games.neverwinter-nights (More info?)

kerchmar.randy@epa.gov wrote:
> How Weapon Finesse works for a halfling or gnome is not clear to me,
> either.


You know, it takes about ten minutes to run a trainer module and check
this out for yourself. Small creatures must wield a tiny weapon in the
off hand to avoid the additional -2 penalty. Rapiers do not work as
finesse weapons for small creatures.

There, I saved you ten minutes.
--
Barry Scott Will
Pyric RPG Publications
http://www.pyric.com/