[SOLVED] Question about situation with ungrounded outlets, gfci, Zero Surge protector, pc, and UPS

[caesiumx133]

Recently bought a house and later found out that most the outlets aside from a couple in the kitchen are ungrounded, and there's no non-bank-breaking way to get them grounded without haven't some professional asbestos removal done. Managed to find a surge protector that doesn't rely on ground (Zero Surge) to at least add some protection for my pc I built that way, and am having gfci outlets put in to off more protection for us humans living here. Was also planning on getting a Cyberpower UPS to help for power outages.

I was reading this topic

Damage of a ungrounded pc

Hi guys, Tomorrow my pc parts will arrive and I have the following questions concerning grounding: 1. I don't have a grounded outlet in my room and I want to install windows as soon as possible. Will using an ungrounded outlet do any harm on my pc in the short term? (given there are no...

forums.tomshardware.com

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This post in particular concerned me

"This is the correct answer, and I really suggest you take it seriously. If you plug the PC into an ungrounded outlet and there's any sort of current leakage in your components, that charge which would normally go to ground will instead build up in your case. Basically your case will turn into a giant capacitor. And when you reach over to turn off the computer, that capacitor will discharge through you possibly electrocuting you. "

Someone later in the thread asked if the gfci outlet would help protect a person from that, but the question was never answered. Can someone give an answer to that question?

If I have gfci outlet, with the Zero Surge surge protector plugged into it, the UPS into the surge protector, and then pc, monitors, etc. plugged into the UPS should things most likely be fine? Is that too much of a chain of stuff? Starting to wonder about the trade off the UPS benefit vs another thing downstream of the surge protection that could have an issue.

Hopefully this plan is at least better then nothing since selling the house several months out of purchase isn't an option due to selling fees, but also want to make sure nothing in this plan isn't going to leave me worse off somehow. And if it is enough to be decently safe, would be nice to know to easy my mind, as I have been quite stressed out about the whole situation.

 

[caesiumx133]

Sounds like my old place when I got it.
I spent every weekend for almost an entire summer rewiring the place going room by room.

Oh fun...

 

[Darkbreeze]

Actually, it shouldn't be massively expensive to simply have an electrician or capable enough handyman install a single incoming new circuit from the panel to the room where you intend to use this system. I don't see any reason why you'd have to do other rooms or outlets, just the one you are concerned about that will be used with the PC and UPS or whatever.

If I lived near you I'd install a new breaker in the panel, pull the run to the room and install the outlet for like 300 bucks, depending of course on how far the room is from the panel. Might be less or more in your region and depending on the run. Or, as Bob said, with sufficient research and patience, you could always attach to the new wire and pull the run yourself but if you are not handy and somewhat proficient with these kinds of things it's likely a lot better to get somebody who knows what they are doing to do it, especially if you need to pull a permit. If you are the homeowner you can usually pull a homeowner permit for the new work or an electrician will generally handle that part if you have them do it and they'll get it inspected if necessary. Often it is not if it is simply an upgrade to an existing outlet. Or at least, often they simply don't bother.

 

[caesiumx133]

Actually, it shouldn't be massively expensive to simply have an electrician or capable enough handyman install a single incoming new circuit from the panel to the room where you intend to use this system. I don't see any reason why you'd have to do other rooms or outlets, just the one you are concerned about that will be used with the PC and UPS or whatever.

If I lived near you I'd install a new breaker in the panel, pull the run to the room and install the outlet for like 300 bucks, depending of course on how far the room is from the panel. Might be less or more in your region and depending on the run. Or, as Bob said, with sufficient research and patience, you could always attach to the new wire and pull the run yourself but if you are not handy and somewhat proficient with these kinds of things it's likely a lot better to get somebody who knows what they are doing to do it, especially if you need to pull a permit. If you are the homeowner you can usually pull a homeowner permit for the new work or an electrician will generally handle that part if you have them do it and they'll get it inspected if necessary. Often it is not if it is simply an upgrade to an existing outlet. Or at least, often they simply don't bother.

We did have a suggestion like that before, not sure if exactly the same. The electrician we brought in didn't want to go that route for whatever reason. The guy who initially suggested it that we had in before that had also wanted to just go around and wire all the ground pins to the neutrals in each outlet and everything I read was like DON"T EVER DO THAT DANGEROUS NOO!, so we got a bit put off feeling from him and weren't sure what to make of the other suggestion from him either due to that. That person estimated about 1500-2k to run it all the way up to the two upstairs rooms we need it. Not sure about local permits, so would need to look into that. But that was an idea we would be ok with if actually decent/acceptable to do.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I'd call around to several electricians etc. and get several estimates on just pulling a new three wire from the panel to that specific outlet. I would not wire the ground pins to the neutral. No.

 

[Karadjgne]

Upstairs makes things easy on one hand, there's attic space, so wires can be run down walls with little difficulty. On the other hand, the panel is often downstairs or outside, and without drywall damage, often impossible to reach due to framing, blockers, headers, flooring, plumbing or hvac.

If the panel is in the garage, that offers the second best option, as you surface mount emt to a junction box, go up from there to an existing outlet as a pull station, then up into the attic. Outside is the easiest option, straight up the wall with emt into the soffit. Then paint the pipe to color match.

And no, a halfway competent electrician isn't exactly cheap, even doing it as a side-hustle.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Much depends on the age of the house when the wiring was last installed, but for older houses that don't have modern romex it is very unusual, in my experience anyhow, for the in wall wiring to be horseshoe nailed or otherwise fastened to the framing (Although usually exposed wiring will be) so it's generally not difficult for an electrician to pull using the old wiring as the cheat. Even installing new, not hard.

It's an almost simple matter to install a new run from box to upstairs outside the wall using conduit, straight up the wall, and straight in through the wall where you want the new outlet. Hardest part is usually drilling through the exterior stucco if it has it and making sure there is no pre-existing wiring in between the framing where you want to jump in at. But, I usually do all my own stuff and I certainly don't get electricians prices when I do it for others so.............

Like I said, if you can find a reputable handyman with electrical experience it would be much cheaper but you want to be sure they know what they are doing AND you WILL need to pull a permit if it's an all new circuit in most cases although regionally and locally rules can have some fundamental differences. But, might not be something you want to have to deal with either so...........

 

[Paperdoc]

A couple additional thoughts.

1. Ground screws to Neutral wires at outlets? NEVER!!! You were right to be highly suspicious of that guy!
2. Using the old cable to pull a new cable through some walls might well work. There are two possible problems, though. ONE is whether the old cable is actually stapled down and often it is not. The SECOND is that many walls now are built with horizontal blocks of 2x4 across the gap between studs to act a fire stops, which means that any cable vertical run must pass through holes bored in those stops. That MAY make pulling cable though them a bit harder. Older houses (like mine) have no such fire stops, so my own re-wiring job 50 years ago went much more easily. Now, IF the destination is on your second floor, then surely there WILL be floor plates between levels in the walls and hence some bored holes in them. But if those are the only holes for feeding though, that is not too bad. In my case in rewiring the entire house, I established a couple of bays between studs on lower and upper floors, opened the wall, and ran all upper-floor cables all the way from basement into the attic, then back down where needed.
3. Regarding wiring permits and inspection, there are regulations requiring such to ensure the job is done properly. But in addition, INSURANCE companies will NOT insure a home without approved electrics, and will VOID any policy where there are unapproved electricals that MIGHT contribute to a claim.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Right, agree with all that, BUT, if the building is old enough to have only two wire wiring and only two slot outlets then it is very unlikely that it is new enough that there are fire breaks in the wall. Even so though, I've had good success pulling past these before if you wrap electrical tape tightly and firmly around about the first foot of both wires, with them overlapped, and go past the ends of the overlap by about two inches on both ends. Still, it's probably not something they are going to want to do themselves anyhow if they came here to ask the questions they've asked, but you never know.