[SOLVED] Question regarding lanes on B/H series boards

[Jo_Hardy]

Question regarding Intel DMI 3.0 (& 4.0) lanes on B series vs H series boards and help choosing the right motherboard chipset

Hi all,

I'm in the midst of sourcing components for my first new build in almost a decade (9+ year old i5 3470 represent)!

For the new build, I will be using a GTX 1060, a PCIe 3.0 1 TB M2 SSD, an M2 Wifi module, a SATA 500 GB SSD, a 2 TB SATA HDD and a Logitech G29 plugged in; along with the usual kb/mouse. I plan on adding a PCIe 4.0 SSD later this year.

I was originally going to buy a B560 series motherboard, having already obtained an 11400. But I was unaware of this whole DMI thing until very recently - when seeing articles mentioning 12th gen's new DMI 4.0 - thus learning that B series motherboards only have x4 lanes!​

1. Now I wonder if my planned build will benefit from me biting the bullet and going to 12th gen, in terms of smoothness/not saturating the DMI lanes? Because my current 9 year old B75 series chipset motherboard offers the same number of lanes and thoughtput to (and from) the CPU as an 11th gen B series motherboard would. I guess it is just human feeling (vs rational thinking), but I feel like that might be a bottleneck for all my components^. Will it?

2. What sort of impact does more lanes make vs more thoughtput in equal number of lanes? Will DMI 3.0 x8 lanes be better for my situation than DMI 4.0 x4?

Spoiler: I could afford to upgrade to 12th gen if it can help my situation

I could afford to sell off my 11400 and buy a 12400f (the jump in performance alone seems worth it, plus having 2 PCIe 4.0 M2 slots vs 1 slot) + a B660 motherboard (probably the Aorus Pro AX, worried about possible VRM issues since many 11th gen B series motherboards are bad).

Sadly H570,H670 motherboards aren't available in my country (Sri Lanka) at the moment and they are very rare as most stores only sell Z series and B series. Even the cheapest Z series costs more than the most expensive B series. But depending on how critical having x8 lanes is (after you guys share your advice), I'll try to wait a few months and snag an H series.

As a bonus, could someone explain how and where the DMI x4 connectivity of a B series motherboard might be a limiting factor/cause stutter or be a chokepoint? Will that be mitigated by the new 12th gen B660 series with their DMI 4.0 (vs the DMI 3.0, which Intel has used since Ivy Bridge), OR do you need more lanes, so an H570 or Z570 with their x8 lanes? Thank you sooo much 🙏

Any and all help and advice is most welcome😃and I truly apologise for my lack of understanding.
Thanks again for all the help ​

Spoiler: PS - Just an interesting observation on inflation in my country

Back in 2011 the USD was ~110 lkr (lankan rupees). I recall helping my friend build a Sandybridge PC with an H67 motherboard. In 2012 the US dollar hit 133 lkr so I used a B75 for my own build, costing similar money ~12000 rupees. Back then B series wasn't so popular for gaming and was targeted more for small business stuff.

Fastforward to 2022 and the dollar is 210 rupees. And a B series motherboard starts at 26500 rupees. The B560 Aorus Pro AX is 450000 rupees, while the new B660 Aorus pro AX is 55000 rupees! And no, wages haven't really doubled in that time, a teacher earns ~60000 a month. Enough to buy that motherboard and starve😭

 

[kanewolf]

Hi all,

I'm in the midst of sourcing components for my first new build in almost a decade (9+ year old i5 3470 represent)!

For the new build, I will be using a GTX 1060, a PCIe 3.0 1 TB M2 SSD, an M2 Wifi module, a SATA 500 GB SSD, a 2 TB SATA HDD and a Logitech G29 plugged in; along with the usual kb/mouse. I plan on adding a PCIe 4.0 SSD later this year.

I was originally going to buy a B560 series motherboard, having already obtained an 11400. But I was unaware of this whole DMI thing until very recently - when seeing articles mentioning 12th gen's new DMI 4.0 - thus learning that B series motherboards only have x4 lanes!​

1. Now I wonder if my planned build will benefit from me biting the bullet and going to 12th gen, in terms of smoothness/not saturating the DMI lanes? Because my current 9 year old B75 series chipset motherboard offers the same number of lanes and thoughtput to (and from) the CPU as an 11th gen B series motherboard would. I guess it is just human feeling (vs rational thinking), but I feel like that might be a bottleneck for all my components^. Will it?

2. What sort of impact does more lanes make vs more thoughtput in equal number of lanes? Will DMI 3.0 x8 lanes be better for my situation than DMI 4.0 x4?

Spoiler: I could afford to upgrade to 12th gen if it can help my situation

I could afford to sell off my 11400 and buy a 12400f (the jump in performance alone seems worth it, plus having 2 PCIe 4.0 M2 slots vs 1 slot) + a B660 motherboard (probably the Aorus Pro AX, worried about possible VRM issues since many 11th gen B series motherboards are bad).

Sadly H570,H670 motherboards aren't available in my country (Sri Lanka) at the moment and they are very rare as most stores only sell Z series and B series. Even the cheapest Z series costs more than the most expensive B series. But depending on how critical having x8 lanes is (after you guys share your advice), I'll try to wait a few months and snag an H series.

As a bonus, could someone explain how and where the DMI x4 connectivity of a B series motherboard might be a limiting factor/cause stutter or be a chokepoint? Will that be mitigated by the new 12th gen B660 series with their DMI 4.0 (vs the DMI 3.0, which Intel has used since Ivy Bridge), OR do you need more lanes, so an H570 or Z570 with their x8 lanes? Thank you sooo much 🙏

Any and all help and advice is most welcome😃and I truly apologise for my lack of understanding.
Thanks again for all the help ​

Spoiler: PS - Just an interesting observation on inflation in my country

Back in 2011 the USD was ~110 lkr (lankan rupees). I recall helping my friend build a Sandybridge PC with an H67 motherboard. In 2012 the US dollar hit 133 lkr so I used a B75 for my own build, costing similar money ~12000 rupees. Back then B series wasn't so popular for gaming and was targeted more for small business stuff.

Fastforward to 2022 and the dollar is 210 rupees. And a B series motherboard starts at 26500 rupees. The B560 Aorus Pro AX is 450000 rupees, while the new B660 Aorus pro AX is 55000 rupees! And no, wages haven't really doubled in that time, a teacher earns ~60000 a month. Enough to buy that motherboard and starve😭

How many NVMe devices do you plan on?
The link between the CPU and chipset is much less important today because most of the high bandwidth interfaces (RAM and graphics) have been consolidated onto the CPU.
2nd and 3rd NVMe devices use PCIe lanes off the chipset. This traffic has to traverse the DMI interface. If you plan on a single NVMe device, then you won't be impacted.

 

[Lutfij]

For the new build, I will be using a GTX 1060, a PCIe 3.0 1 TB M2 SSD, an M2 Wifi module, a SATA 500 GB SSD, a 2 TB SATA HDD and a Logitech G29 plugged in; along with the usual kb/mouse. I plan on adding a PCIe 4.0 SSD later this year.
The wifi can be negated by buying a board that has WiFi bundled on it and then worry about having the primary slot on the board work with a PCIe 4.0 SSD. You seem to also give off conflicting information, you've mentioned inflation at the end of your thread whereby you reference a teacher's salary(and their profession) are you a teacher? If so, then you might want to think of your build in a rational manner. If you're going to loose more by swapping over to a newer platform all in the name of more...lanes? I'd work around the mishap by getting any NVMe SSD on the board, then grabbing any 2.5" SSD after the NVMe and wrap up the build.

Chasing behind numbers for you might not be the right objective considering the cost of living is higher where you're located.

 

[Jo_Hardy]

How many NVMe devices do you plan on?
The link between the CPU and chipset is much less important today because most of the high bandwidth interfaces (RAM and graphics) have been consolidated onto the CPU.
2nd and 3rd NVMe devices use PCIe lanes off the chipset. This traffic has to traverse the DMI interface. If you plan on a single NVMe device, then you won't be impacted.

Thank you! I guess a PCIe 3.0 SSD and a PCIe 4.0 SSD are both NVMe devices? I already own the PCIe 3.0 SSD, and I'm planning to get a PCIe 4.0 when they become more mainstream later this year. So in this case will the DMI interface be an issue? and would it be better resolved by having more lanes (x8) or by having DMI 4.0?

Thanks again! 😃

For the new build, I will be using a GTX 1060, a PCIe 3.0 1 TB M2 SSD, an M2 Wifi module, a SATA 500 GB SSD, a 2 TB SATA HDD and a Logitech G29 plugged in; along with the usual kb/mouse. I plan on adding a PCIe 4.0 SSD later this year.
The wifi can be negated by buying a board that has WiFi bundled on it and then worry about having the primary slot on the board work with a PCIe 4.0 SSD. You seem to also give off conflicting information, you've mentioned inflation at the end of your thread whereby you reference a teacher's salary(and their profession) are you a teacher? If so, then you might want to think of your build in a rational manner. If you're going to loose more by swapping over to a newer platform all in the name of more...lanes? I'd work around the mishap by getting any NVMe SSD on the board, then grabbing any 2.5" SSD after the NVMe and wrap up the build.

Chasing behind numbers for you might not be the right objective considering the cost of living is higher where you're located.

Thanks! I understand what you said about the WiFi, but wouldn't it still require communication via the motherboard chipset/take up bandwidth nevertheless? I could very much be mistaken.

Hehe no, thankfully I'm not a teacher (although I used to volunteer to teach English to kids at a non profit pre-covid, if that counts). Thanks for the suggestion But I'm ok with spending extra on it, would require a long explanation;

Spoiler: hence this spoiler

It's like this; I prefer peace of mind, while feeling that I got myself a decent deal. I may sell my system sometime next year depending on foreign university entrance timing. An 11th gen with the bad reputation of being power hungry and having the VRM issues is going to be a harder sell an year from now, if it comes down to it. Meaning 12th gen will hold better than it. and be similar to how Haswell held value; if DDR5 pricing continues to remain out of reach for most for more than an year.

Plus Intel had mentioned the 1700 socket might be like AM4, supporting at least raptor lake processors and possibly even 14th gen.
All of that means, I'll have a much easier time selling it off next year to someone that wants a good upgradable platform. And if heavier taxes are announced on imports or the rupee floats (can't rule either of em out, the way our economy has been falling the past few months). I won't lose anything. And in the meantime I'll have a system that is about 10-15% faster which won't hurt in sim racing, and with peace of mind knowing I did what I could to alleviate (DMI) bottlenecks.

I understand your reasoning though Thanks for it.

 

[kanewolf]

Thank you! I guess a PCIe 3.0 SSD and a PCIe 4.0 SSD are both NVMe devices? I already own the PCIe 3.0 SSD, and I'm planning to get a PCIe 4.0 when they become more mainstream later this year. So in this case will the DMI interface be an issue? and would it be better resolved by having more lanes (x8) or by having DMI 4.0?

The real life performance difference between NVMe 3.0, 4.0 and SATA SSDs is minimal for most use cases. 4.0 PCIe drives sound great with high benchmark numbers, but you won't see any difference between 3.0 and 4.0. Most of the time you won't see any difference between SATA and 3.0 drives. The change from spinning to solid state is huge. The changes between different types of solid state? Not much. I don't believe you will lose any measurable real-world performance.

 

[Jo_Hardy]

The real life performance difference between NVMe 3.0, 4.0 and SATA SSDs is minimal for most use cases. 4.0 PCIe drives sound great with high benchmark numbers, but you won't see any difference between 3.0 and 4.0. Most of the time you won't see any difference between SATA and 3.0 drives. The change from spinning to solid state is huge. The changes between different types of solid state? Not much. I don't believe you will lose any measurable real-world performance.

Thanks again

Will keep this in mind. What if I were to purchase an extra SSD (even if PCIe 3.0 rather than 4.0; since I wouldn't go back to buying a SATA SSD if the prices aren't significantly different), in that case which would be less liable in causing any bottlenecks, 4 lanes of DMI 4.0, or 8 lanes of DMI 3.0?

Just a question out of curiosity. I'm most inclined to follow Lutfij's advice and not complicate things and stick with what I already have (the 11400), and thus go out and buy a motherboard for it. Trying to figure if i should try to get an H series with the extra lanes

 

[Jo_Hardy]

For the new build, I will be using a GTX 1060, a PCIe 3.0 1 TB M2 SSD, an M2 Wifi module, a SATA 500 GB SSD, a 2 TB SATA HDD and a Logitech G29 plugged in; along with the usual kb/mouse. I plan on adding a PCIe 4.0 SSD later this year.
The wifi can be negated by buying a board that has WiFi bundled on it and then worry about having the primary slot on the board work with a PCIe 4.0 SSD. You seem to also give off conflicting information, you've mentioned inflation at the end of your thread whereby you reference a teacher's salary(and their profession) are you a teacher? If so, then you might want to think of your build in a rational manner. If you're going to loose more by swapping over to a newer platform all in the name of more...lanes? I'd work around the mishap by getting any NVMe SSD on the board, then grabbing any 2.5" SSD after the NVMe and wrap up the build.


Chasing behind numbers for you might not be the right objective considering the cost of living is higher where you're located.

The real life performance difference between NVMe 3.0, 4.0 and SATA SSDs is minimal for most use cases. 4.0 PCIe drives sound great with high benchmark numbers, but you won't see any difference between 3.0 and 4.0. Most of the time you won't see any difference between SATA and 3.0 drives. The change from spinning to solid state is huge. The changes between different types of solid state? Not much. I don't believe you will lose any measurable real-world performance.

Thanks both of you I decided to take Lutfij's advice and get myself a motherboard that has inbuilt wifi (and bluetooth) and stick to my 11th gen platform

I've solved the issue I had. My fear was whether having only 4 lanes of DMI 3.0 might be a bottleneck in some manner for my new build. What I failed to realise was that 11th gen Intel processors allow a PCIe 4.0 SSD to directly communicate with the CPU, forgoing the chipset! So there's no bottleneck to worry about in the scenario that I have only the 4.0 SSD.

For the case where I have both a 4.0 SSD and a 3.0 SSD, the 3.0 SSD would be connected via the chipset utilising the DMI 3.0 lanes and only saturating the 4 DMI 3.0 lanes when it is running at max (huge file transfer etc). Otherwise it won't show any slowdown. And for peace of mind, I could fix that issue by simply purchasing an H series motherboard (which has 8 DMI 3.0 lanes vs the 4 lanes in a B series chipset motherboard)

But I'm most likely going to purchase a B560 series motherboard, since it won't make a difference most of the time and it's super hard to find a good H570 series motherboard here.

Thanks again to you both I'd select best answer from both if I could