I agree that AGP is still one strong interface. I disagree to Mach5Motorsport, though. Having a recent graphics card for AGP doesn't tell that AGP has outlived PCIe 1.1. There are lots of cards out there that are for PCIe 2.0 and 1.1. PCIe is just luckier to support newer cards.
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wild9
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- May 20, 2007
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I am convinced that a moderate graphics card and dual-core CPU are capable of running most modern games. There is always the option of getting slower components and overclocking them.
On the AMD side. Aside from Socket AM2 offering DDR-II capability, the difference in performance between S939 and AM2 is not that big; hence, a S939 3800+ x2 overclocked (or even Operton), together with a nVidia Geforce 8800GS/9600GT would run most games. You can also overclock DDR memory on these older boards.
On the AMD side. Aside from Socket AM2 offering DDR-II capability, the difference in performance between S939 and AM2 is not that big; hence, a S939 3800+ x2 overclocked (or even Operton), together with a nVidia Geforce 8800GS/9600GT would run most games. You can also overclock DDR memory on these older boards.
cleeve
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- Mar 7, 2003
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[citation][nom]ch424[/nom]
Does that mean you had compatibility issues with Vista? Would it be possible to tell us what the situation with drivers is? Just telling us if you can install the AGP HD 3850 and run games on XP/Vista 32/Vista 64 would be sufficient, but ideally could you test it the same way that you did for part one of the review. [/citation]
The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.
I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.
Does that mean you had compatibility issues with Vista? Would it be possible to tell us what the situation with drivers is? Just telling us if you can install the AGP HD 3850 and run games on XP/Vista 32/Vista 64 would be sufficient, but ideally could you test it the same way that you did for part one of the review. [/citation]
The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.
I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.
cleeve
Illustrious
- Mar 7, 2003
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[citation][nom]ch424[/nom]
Does that mean you had compatibility issues with Vista? Would it be possible to tell us what the situation with drivers is? Just telling us if you can install the AGP HD 3850 and run games on XP/Vista 32/Vista 64 would be sufficient, but ideally could you test it the same way that you did for part one of the review. [/citation]
The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.
I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.
Does that mean you had compatibility issues with Vista? Would it be possible to tell us what the situation with drivers is? Just telling us if you can install the AGP HD 3850 and run games on XP/Vista 32/Vista 64 would be sufficient, but ideally could you test it the same way that you did for part one of the review. [/citation]
The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.
I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.
dragon-fly
Distinguished
- May 4, 2006
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In the conclusion:
when we will upgrade our single core Socket 939 Athlon 64 3400+ to a dual core Athlon X2 3800+.
I will tell you guys RIGHT NOW that it will 100% not work on S939 systems with the NF3 chipset, A64x2 and ATI card on Vista.
Yes, thats right, i've tried it. i own an AGP ATI card, Dual Core A64x2 3800+, 3 gigs of ddr 400 ram, and a msi k8n neo2 platinum based on the nf3 ultra chipset.
one just needs to google nf3 ati a64x2 vista and you'd get, in teh first link,
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1030607352
It basically means A64x2 + Ati +nf3 doesnt work in vista. it kills all forms of drive acceleration, causes loss of aero and forget about playing games. A64 single core + ati +nf3 will work beautifully in vista though.
That note should be included in the conclusion.
Nvidia has currently completely dropped support for these users, thus why i now have a quad core intel with a intel based board and radeon 3870 pcie edition.
when we will upgrade our single core Socket 939 Athlon 64 3400+ to a dual core Athlon X2 3800+.
I will tell you guys RIGHT NOW that it will 100% not work on S939 systems with the NF3 chipset, A64x2 and ATI card on Vista.
Yes, thats right, i've tried it. i own an AGP ATI card, Dual Core A64x2 3800+, 3 gigs of ddr 400 ram, and a msi k8n neo2 platinum based on the nf3 ultra chipset.
one just needs to google nf3 ati a64x2 vista and you'd get, in teh first link,
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1030607352
It basically means A64x2 + Ati +nf3 doesnt work in vista. it kills all forms of drive acceleration, causes loss of aero and forget about playing games. A64 single core + ati +nf3 will work beautifully in vista though.
That note should be included in the conclusion.
Nvidia has currently completely dropped support for these users, thus why i now have a quad core intel with a intel based board and radeon 3870 pcie edition.
dragon-fly
Distinguished
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[citation][nom]ch424[/nom]Aha, thank you. Did you try the 64-bit version at all though? The review only mentioned 32-bit Vista. I'm looking forward to Part 2! [/citation]
i personally haev tried. doesnt help.
Tried cat 8.5 as well, no go.
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.[/citation]
Hey, you know what, you are in luck. the asrick has a uli chipset. they have a Patch. Nvidia doesnt. you can Try to find it. i know i had it on my computer at one point, when i desperately wanted to get my X800xl AIW edition working under vista. i have deleted it though.
Last i heard though, nvidia deleted the patch when they bought Uli. Hopefully you guys can still find it somewhere on a forum.
i personally haev tried. doesnt help.
Tried cat 8.5 as well, no go.
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.[/citation]
Hey, you know what, you are in luck. the asrick has a uli chipset. they have a Patch. Nvidia doesnt. you can Try to find it. i know i had it on my computer at one point, when i desperately wanted to get my X800xl AIW edition working under vista. i have deleted it though.
Last i heard though, nvidia deleted the patch when they bought Uli. Hopefully you guys can still find it somewhere on a forum.
dragon-fly
Distinguished
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First, sorry for the mispellings in my last post. i typed quickly and didnt revise it. (personally haev tried = i personally have tried, asrick = asrock)
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.[/citation]
anyways, i found a guide on how to fix the problem on uli based chipsets, mainly the asrock boards.
http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?t=121383
Good luck with that guys! personally i will remain happy with my new system.
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.[/citation]
anyways, i found a guide on how to fix the problem on uli based chipsets, mainly the asrock boards.
http://forum.abit-usa.com/showthread.php?t=121383
Good luck with that guys! personally i will remain happy with my new system.
How about you find yourself a nice Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP-939, or a DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 ULTRA-D motherboard, some nice Kingston HyperX dual DDR3200 Ram, about 2 gigs of it, a processor with 1 Mb L2 cache, let's say ADA4000DEP5AS, some Sata 2 harddrives, running Windows XP SP2 and DX9!
Rerun the test! Post the REAL results!
..or you're affraid you'll ruin Intel's or Nvidia's supremacy?!
Rerun the test! Post the REAL results!
..or you're affraid you'll ruin Intel's or Nvidia's supremacy?!
dragon-fly
Distinguished
- May 4, 2006
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[citation][nom]Piglett[/nom]How about you find yourself a nice Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP-939, or a DFI LANPARTY UT nF3 ULTRA-D motherboard, some nice Kingston HyperX dual DDR3200 Ram, about 2 gigs of it, a processor with 1 Mb L2 cache, let's say ADA4000DEP5AS, some Sata 2 harddrives, running Windows XP SP2 and DX9!Rerun the test! Post the REAL results!..or you're affraid you'll ruin Intel's or Nvidia's supremacy?![/citation]
the problem is that it runs a nf3 ultra chipset. if you look at my post 3 posts ago. it wont run under A64x2 processors under vista.
the problem is that it runs a nf3 ultra chipset. if you look at my post 3 posts ago. it wont run under A64x2 processors under vista.
ut3 performance was surprising.
it runs great on my old athlon64 3500+ with a pcie 7900gs and high settings with AA even.
the 3800 series is supposed to be more powerful than a 7900gs..
so uh...WTF?
it runs great on my old athlon64 3500+ with a pcie 7900gs and high settings with AA even.
the 3800 series is supposed to be more powerful than a 7900gs..
so uh...WTF?
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.[/citation]
Nforce3 has no drivers for Vista, and drivers from XP will not work with dual core when an ATI card is installed. In other words, nVidia cut off the path to upgrade your AGP card on its older chipset.
Why not when you can spend your money on one of their new chipsets and PCI-E cards.
Caveat Emptor for the future though...
Nforce3 has no drivers for Vista, and drivers from XP will not work with dual core when an ATI card is installed. In other words, nVidia cut off the path to upgrade your AGP card on its older chipset.
Why not when you can spend your money on one of their new chipsets and PCI-E cards.
Caveat Emptor for the future though...
bourgeoisdude
Distinguished
- Dec 15, 2005
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[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]The trouble wasn't with the drivers - it's with the Asrock 939dual-SATA2 motherboard. The chipset won't let us use the AGP 3850 in conjunction with Vista IF we are using a dual-core processor. With a single core, it's fine.I have heard this problem is also known on some Nforce chipsets; I'll be looking into it and report in the next review.[/citation]
Interesting. I'm still using my ASRock board with the 4400+ X2 and have used it with a Radeon 3850 PCIe (among other PCIe cards...8800GTS 320MB, 8600GTS, Radeon x700 128MB; also GeForce 6600 AGP and even an old GeForce 4 Ti 4200). All have worked with it just fine, most recently the 3850, 8600GTS and the 8800GTS have worked in Vista as well.
I have been very happy with my ASRock board. I have BIOS 2.2 on it, but I don't see any relevant changes with different BIOS revisions.
Interesting. I'm still using my ASRock board with the 4400+ X2 and have used it with a Radeon 3850 PCIe (among other PCIe cards...8800GTS 320MB, 8600GTS, Radeon x700 128MB; also GeForce 6600 AGP and even an old GeForce 4 Ti 4200). All have worked with it just fine, most recently the 3850, 8600GTS and the 8800GTS have worked in Vista as well.
I have been very happy with my ASRock board. I have BIOS 2.2 on it, but I don't see any relevant changes with different BIOS revisions.
dragon-fly
Distinguished
- May 4, 2006
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[citation][nom]bourgeoisdude[/nom]Interesting. I'm still using my ASRock board with the 4400+ X2 and have used it with a Radeon 3850 PCIe (among other PCIe cards...8800GTS 320MB, 8600GTS, Radeon x700 128MB; also GeForce 6600 AGP and even an old GeForce 4 Ti 4200). All have worked with it just fine, most recently the 3850, 8600GTS and the 8800GTS have worked in Vista as well.I have been very happy with my ASRock board. I have BIOS 2.2 on it, but I don't see any relevant changes with different BIOS revisions.[/citation]
that is because your asrock board is based on a ULI chipset. Uli, before being bought out by nvidia, released a patch that fixed the problem. Nvidia on the other hand.... bought over uli, cut off support, etc etc. not exactly my favorite company, which is why i am now on the intel and ati camp.
that is because your asrock board is based on a ULI chipset. Uli, before being bought out by nvidia, released a patch that fixed the problem. Nvidia on the other hand.... bought over uli, cut off support, etc etc. not exactly my favorite company, which is why i am now on the intel and ati camp.
Retrogame
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- Aug 31, 2007
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I am looking forward to seeing part two. My system was put together as a "bridging" system; recycling parts that had been used to upgrade a previous computer, and initially that included the X850 Pro video card.
Ultimately, I don't really think that going beyond a DX9 card with a socket 939 mobo and cpu is really worth it. Having said that, I'm sure that it would work great in my system and give a small boost, but the trouble is the CPU, even as an overclocked dual core, is still "underpowered".
The only games that I have trouble with ARE CPU-intensive, such as Supreme Commander. Mind you, I have a philosophy of starting at maximum and then working my way down; but once you're CPU-bottlenecked, you find that lowering the settings on the game doesn't make it run any faster.
Here's the core of my system, such as it is:
CPU: Athlon64 4200+ X2 (base 2.2 Ghz, OC'd to 2.8 GHz)
RAM: 2 GB OCZ w/copper heatspreaders, set to run at 333 DDR (166) and the FSB OC'd to 255 from 200 Mhz to achieve overclock. (Ram nets out running at 423 Mhz DDR, and the CPU gains ~27.25% clock speed).
Video: Sapphire X1950 Pro AGP, 512 MB GDDR3
Motherboard: ASUS A8V-MX MicroATX
This is an extremely stable overclock, and even at full load, the CPU doesn't really get that hot. I've never had drive issues or problems with the video card, other than it can overheat under extreme pressure. And I just use the stock coolers for both.
I feel that it's actually good that the games now use the CPU more now... it always felt stupid that your CPU investment was much less important than your graphics controller.
Ultimately, I don't really think that going beyond a DX9 card with a socket 939 mobo and cpu is really worth it. Having said that, I'm sure that it would work great in my system and give a small boost, but the trouble is the CPU, even as an overclocked dual core, is still "underpowered".
The only games that I have trouble with ARE CPU-intensive, such as Supreme Commander. Mind you, I have a philosophy of starting at maximum and then working my way down; but once you're CPU-bottlenecked, you find that lowering the settings on the game doesn't make it run any faster.
Here's the core of my system, such as it is:
CPU: Athlon64 4200+ X2 (base 2.2 Ghz, OC'd to 2.8 GHz)
RAM: 2 GB OCZ w/copper heatspreaders, set to run at 333 DDR (166) and the FSB OC'd to 255 from 200 Mhz to achieve overclock. (Ram nets out running at 423 Mhz DDR, and the CPU gains ~27.25% clock speed).
Video: Sapphire X1950 Pro AGP, 512 MB GDDR3
Motherboard: ASUS A8V-MX MicroATX
This is an extremely stable overclock, and even at full load, the CPU doesn't really get that hot. I've never had drive issues or problems with the video card, other than it can overheat under extreme pressure. And I just use the stock coolers for both.
I feel that it's actually good that the games now use the CPU more now... it always felt stupid that your CPU investment was much less important than your graphics controller.
Mach5Motorsport
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- Sep 4, 2003
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Hey jv_acabal
My comment was to tweak those that say after every new AGP card review that its a dead interface. People claimed that after the Nvidia 7800GS ATi wouldn't bother! Wrong! It's now years after the debut of PCIe 1.0 and AGP cards are still being released in the era of PCIe 2.0 (yeah, not in great amounts) yet the ATi 3850 is certainly not a low level card.
My comment was to tweak those that say after every new AGP card review that its a dead interface. People claimed that after the Nvidia 7800GS ATi wouldn't bother! Wrong! It's now years after the debut of PCIe 1.0 and AGP cards are still being released in the era of PCIe 2.0 (yeah, not in great amounts) yet the ATi 3850 is certainly not a low level card.
pauldh
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- Jan 1, 2004
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SLI 8800GTS G92 doesn't even saturate PCI-e 8X/8X in current games, never mind needing PCI-e 2.0. Google - evga nforce 750i sli review
AGP is dead in that NVidia gave up on it and you can't buy a 8800GTX caliber card or go dual GPU's. But that doesn't mean there is no demand for it or that the AGP bus is saturated with current cards/games. And, there is still plenty of gaming life left in capable AGP machines thx to the HD3850.
AGP is dead in that NVidia gave up on it and you can't buy a 8800GTX caliber card or go dual GPU's. But that doesn't mean there is no demand for it or that the AGP bus is saturated with current cards/games. And, there is still plenty of gaming life left in capable AGP machines thx to the HD3850.
Thanks for still taking in to consideration older architectures. I have the ATI HD 3850 512MB AGP 8x... but there is actually another company who makes this card too... I bought it from HIS. (At TigerDirect.com) I have encountered a couple of issues with this card however... one, the driver keeps failing. I contacted HIS support and they had me patch it with a hot fix: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&questionID=31542 The other issue is lack of 3D support for OpenSolaris... hopefully with ATI's open source driver initiative they will correct this issue. I also run Linux and I will be testing the card there granted the drivers work there too. ATI definitely makes the fastest AGP card out there by a long shot, but the down side is it's only for Windows... nVidia owns everything else!
Hopefully this new patch will keep thing's stable and not rebooting on me out of the blue. Otherwise it's back to nVidia. I am using a Supermicro P4SCT mobo with this card and 4Gigs of ram. Right now I have a 3ghz P4 Prescott but I just ordered a P4 3.4 EE chip that is finally down a good price. This rig is like a 57 Chevy.... very fast for it's time but not what you would want to game with. I am running Vista Ultimate 32bit and I am primarily using this rig for working at home so I just really need it to support all the nice Vista Ultimate bells and whistles... which it does rather well. Hey maybe it will even play SC2 when it finally comes out (fingers crossed)
Hopefully this new patch will keep thing's stable and not rebooting on me out of the blue. Otherwise it's back to nVidia. I am using a Supermicro P4SCT mobo with this card and 4Gigs of ram. Right now I have a 3ghz P4 Prescott but I just ordered a P4 3.4 EE chip that is finally down a good price. This rig is like a 57 Chevy.... very fast for it's time but not what you would want to game with. I am running Vista Ultimate 32bit and I am primarily using this rig for working at home so I just really need it to support all the nice Vista Ultimate bells and whistles... which it does rather well. Hey maybe it will even play SC2 when it finally comes out (fingers crossed)
I would love to find a review of ghetto boards like the one I have. Which is an AM2 Mobo with AGP. I have an AMD 5600x2 and 2GB DDR2 running an overclocked x1950 and running Assasins Creed and UT3 and GOW at 1280x 1024 and 1600x1200 with AA with maxed settings at silky smooth frames.
Samizdat2003
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Excellent article and I'm really glad you're reviewing an AGP card! When will part two of the article appear? I have a dual core (Athlon X2 4400+) on a socket 939 mobo (Asus A8V) with 2GB RAM, currently with an old Radeon 9600XT. My gaming needs are light (*especially* compared to this crowd!) and I'm looking for a way to squeeze as much out of the AGP bus before eventually upgrading, because otherwise my rig is good enough for my current needs. This card looks like just the ticket, and I'm really interested in the second part of the review. Thanks!
anonymous x
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- Apr 22, 2008
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Looking for an upgrade on my old 9600XT for my dually+AGP AMD based system. This is a great review and look forward to the second part two.
You could also try this. Since AGP covers a lot of graphics cards, old and new, there is no way to compare between them to find a good upgrade. My 9600XT was reviewed 5 years ago and there is no way to compare it to newer cards, like the 2600pro or XT, or the 3650 on AGP, cards that I am looking into for an upgrade.
It would be great if you took the most popular AGP cards of yesteryear and put them through their paces against the newer ones, with todays OS's, software and games so that people can decide what to upgrade to.
Thanks.
You could also try this. Since AGP covers a lot of graphics cards, old and new, there is no way to compare between them to find a good upgrade. My 9600XT was reviewed 5 years ago and there is no way to compare it to newer cards, like the 2600pro or XT, or the 3650 on AGP, cards that I am looking into for an upgrade.
It would be great if you took the most popular AGP cards of yesteryear and put them through their paces against the newer ones, with todays OS's, software and games so that people can decide what to upgrade to.
Thanks.
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