Question RAM speed vs timings

[Finnegan1616]

So I'm saving for a new pc (here's an idea of the specs https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hCbdBc), but I want to make sure I get it right (don't really want to spend $7,000+ on the second best if the best was <1000 more), so I'm trying to choose RAM, but I'm not sure whether how much I should prioritize Speed/Timings/Latency/something else, I thought I read that you can divide the timings by the speed, but I'm not sure, the two main RAM sticks are these G.Skill Trident Z RGB and the Crucial Ballistix MAX, both are 16gb modules, and both have good timing/speed etc, but I came to ask which is better (also don't be bothered by budget, unless it's really crazy like this $4000 ram bundle thing https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ny...8-x-16gb-ddr4-3200-memory-cmd128gx4m8b3200c16, I'm not a millionaire)



tldr: I'm limited to 1.4v by my processor, and want the best ram, so how to I make use of timing/speed/latency etc to find the best, and budget isn't a problem

thanks in advance

 

[jeremyj_83]

You say you want the best and are willing to spend the money. I would change your build to achieve that.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($749.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($132.88 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero ATX AM4 Motherboard ($408.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Royal 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-4000 CL14 Memory ($489.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Royal 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-4000 CL14 Memory ($489.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Gigabyte AORUS Gen4 7000s 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($399.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket Q 8 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($1299.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB Founders Edition Video Card ($1500.00)
Case: Corsair 1000D ATX Full Tower Case ($559.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: be quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 1200 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($399.99 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($147.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS FO48U 47.5" 3840x2160 Monitor ($1500.00)
Total: $8078.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-09 09:07 EDT-0400

For the RAM there is a guide from Tomshardware that deals with RAM timings on the Ryzen CPUs. https://www.tomshardware.com/features/ryzen-5000-ram-guide

 

[Finnegan1616]

You say you want the best and are willing to spend the money. I would change your build to achieve that.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor ($749.00 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 420 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($132.88 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Hero ATX AM4 Motherboard ($408.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Royal 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-4000 CL14 Memory ($489.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z Royal 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-4000 CL14 Memory ($489.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Gigabyte AORUS Gen4 7000s 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($399.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Sabrent Rocket Q 8 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($1299.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB Founders Edition Video Card ($1500.00)
Case: Corsair 1000D ATX Full Tower Case ($559.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: be quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 1200 W 80+ Titanium Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($399.99 @ Amazon)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($147.99 @ Amazon)
Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS FO48U 47.5" 3840x2160 Monitor ($1500.00)
Total: $8078.80
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-09 09:07 EDT-0400

For the RAM there is a guide from Tomshardware that deals with RAM timings on the Ryzen CPUs. https://www.tomshardware.com/features/ryzen-5000-ram-guide

minecraft is apparently heavily based on single-threaded performance, which is the reason for the cpu, also because I plan on waiting for 12th gen intel (which does change the motherboard, but it should still support similar things like RAM

but do you know how to "calculate" what RAM is the best, or if there is just something I can look at to see (like CAS/First Word Latency)

 

[jeremyj_83]

minecraft is apparently heavily based on single-threaded performance, which is the reason for the cpu, also because I plan on waiting for 12th gen intel (which does change the motherboard, but it should still support similar things like RAM

but do you know how to "calculate" what RAM is the best, or if there is just something I can look at to see (like CAS/First Word Latency)

From what I have heard, 12th Gen Intel will probably be DDR5 only on desktop with mobile CPUs being LPDDR4X/DDR5. Overall right now is a tough time to buy a CPU since we are beginning the transition from DDR4>DDR5. That said it will probably only be starting with the 2nd Generation DDR5 CPUs where you start to see a difference for RAM performance. In terms of single threaded performance the Zen 3 Ryzens are faster than Rocket Lake Intel. In terms of IPC, Zen 3 has something like 10% higher IPC than Rocket Lake. Based on what Intel has said for Alder Lake we can assume that CPU will have like 5-7% better IPC than Zen 3.

When it comes to RAM, you have to balance between what the CPU will support for Gear 1 and Gear 2 on the Rocket Lake CPUs or the RAM offset in Zen2/3 CPUs. https://premiumbuilds.com/guides/best-ram-for-intel-rocket-lake-i9-11900k-10850k/ In the grand scheme of things going with a DDR4-3600 CL16 kit on the Intel will provide more than enough performance. You can go with lower timings, but the difference between a DDR43600 CL16 & CL14 will be less than 1%, most likely it will be closer to 0%.

 

[Finnegan1616]

From what I have heard, 12th Gen Intel will probably be DDR5 only on desktop with mobile CPUs being LPDDR4X/DDR5. Overall right now is a tough time to buy a CPU since we are beginning the transition from DDR4>DDR5. That said it will probably only be starting with the 2nd Generation DDR5 CPUs where you start to see a difference for RAM performance. In terms of single threaded performance the Zen 3 Ryzens are faster than Rocket Lake Intel. In terms of IPC, Zen 3 has something like 10% higher IPC than Rocket Lake. Based on what Intel has said for Alder Lake we can assume that CPU will have like 5-7% better IPC than Zen 3.

When it comes to RAM, you have to balance between what the CPU will support for Gear 1 and Gear 2 on the Rocket Lake CPUs or the RAM offset in Zen2/3 CPUs. https://premiumbuilds.com/guides/best-ram-for-intel-rocket-lake-i9-11900k-10850k/ In the grand scheme of things going with a DDR4-3600 CL16 kit on the Intel will provide more than enough performance. You can go with lower timings, but the difference between a DDR43600 CL16 & CL14 will be less than 1%, most likely it will be closer to 0%.

but what is the most important part for ram, is it just the CL, or the first word latency?

 

[jeremyj_83]

but what is the most important part for ram, is it just the CL, or the first word latency?

The lower the CL across the board the better the RAM performance will be and you want 1T at the end. However, you reach diminishing returns quite quickly after DDR4-3600 CL16 to the point where the difference in performance is almost identical. In the tomshardware guide I posted with the Ryzen build. The geometric difference between 4000 & 3600 with the same sub timings (15-16-16-36 1T) was a whopping 0.5% faster for DDR4-4000. The difference in cost between CL14 on both 3600 & 4000 RAM is the 4000 RAM is 75% more expensive. Therefore it doesn't make any sense to go with the faster RAM even though they have the same sub timings so the 4000 RAM is even faster.

 

[geofelt]

At equal speeds, lower cas is better.
But, if you divide the speed by cas you will get about 200.
Cas tells how many cycles it takes to get the ram up to speed, then speed takes over.
Really, it does not matter much except for some very ram heavy apps.
Intel has a very good ram controller that anticipates the need for ram and loads it in advance.
Here is an older study of ram speeds on actual app and gaming performance.
Excepting integrated graphics the difference is minimal.

Skylake Memory Scaling with Kingston Predator DDR4-3000

Armed with a massive 32GB high-end Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4-3000 memory kit, we investigate how DDR4 frequencies and latencies affect real world performance on Intel’s latest mainstream desktop platform. October 13, 2015 by Lawrence Lee Product Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4-3000 32GB...

silentpcreview.com

What IS important is to buy a SINGLE kit of ram, not two 32gb kits.
Ram is sold in kits for a reason.
A motherboard must manage all the ram using the same specs of voltage, cas and speed.
The internal workings are designed for the capacity of the kit.
Ram from the same vendor and part number can be made up of differing manufacturing components over time.
Some motherboards, can be very sensitive to this.
This is more difficult when more sticks are involved.
Go to the motherboard web site and access their ram QVL list.
https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-xiii-extreme-model/helpdesk_qvl_memory
Pick an explicitly supported kit.
I might think that for any kind of gaming, 64gb is not needed; 32gb at most.

Then, If you are looking towards 12th gen, likely, this year,
Not only will the cpu and motherboard change, but the ram will likely be DDR5 for the top performers. Also, plan on windows 11 since it will have optimizations for big/little processors.

 

[hotaru.hino]

but I'm not sure whether how much I should prioritize Speed/Timings/Latency/something else

Prioritize speed first. If this table on Wikipedia is the official JEDEC specs, then absolute latency is practically the same no matter which speed you get. However, most RAM kits at higher speeds you can buy operate at lower latency anyway.

 

[Finnegan1616]

At equal speeds, lower cas is better.
But, if you divide the speed by cas you will get about 200.
Cas tells how many cycles it takes to get the ram up to speed, then speed takes over.
Really, it does not matter much except for some very ram heavy apps.
Intel has a very good ram controller that anticipates the need for ram and loads it in advance.
Here is an older study of ram speeds on actual app and gaming performance.
Excepting integrated graphics the difference is minimal.

Skylake Memory Scaling with Kingston Predator DDR4-3000

Armed with a massive 32GB high-end Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4-3000 memory kit, we investigate how DDR4 frequencies and latencies affect real world performance on Intel’s latest mainstream desktop platform. October 13, 2015 by Lawrence Lee Product Kingston HyperX Predator DDR4-3000 32GB...

silentpcreview.com

What IS important is to buy a SINGLE kit of ram, not two 32gb kits.
Ram is sold in kits for a reason.
A motherboard must manage all the ram using the same specs of voltage, cas and speed.
The internal workings are designed for the capacity of the kit.
Ram from the same vendor and part number can be made up of differing manufacturing components over time.
Some motherboards, can be very sensitive to this.
This is more difficult when more sticks are involved.
Go to the motherboard web site and access their ram QVL list.
https://rog.asus.com/us/motherboards/rog-maximus/rog-maximus-xiii-extreme-model/helpdesk_qvl_memory
Pick an explicitly supported kit.
I might think that for any kind of gaming, 64gb is not needed; 32gb at most.

Then, If you are looking towards 12th gen, likely, this year,
Not only will the cpu and motherboard change, but the ram will likely be DDR5 for the top performers. Also, plan on windows 11 since it will have optimizations for big/little processors.

I'll keep that in mind, especially the bolded bit (also I think intel said 12th gen is more around this time next year...
absolutely getting windows 11, the 10 is just there because 11 isn't an option

I was also just about to settle on 2 DDR4-3600 32gb 8.888fwl 16cl ram kits (in other words, 128 gb of DDR4-3600 with ~9 first word, 16 cas)

Prioritize speed first. If this table on Wikipedia is the official JEDEC specs, then absolute latency is practically the same no matter which speed you get. However, most RAM kits at higher speeds you can buy operate at lower latency anyway.

hm, well


I found some 4000Mhz sticks with 9 and 18 latencies? does that sound good?
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/m...00000000&Z=65536002,65536004,131072004&page=1

 

[geofelt]

FWIW, rumor is LAUNCH Nov 19:

Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake-S Desktop CPUs & Z690 Motherboards Launching on 19th November

Our sources have confirmed that Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake-S Desktop CPU lineup and Z690 motherboards are launching on 19th November.

wccftech.com

 

[Finnegan1616]

FWIW, rumor is LAUNCH Nov 19:

Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake-S Desktop CPUs & Z690 Motherboards Launching on 19th November

Our sources have confirmed that Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake-S Desktop CPU lineup and Z690 motherboards are launching on 19th November.

wccftech.com

I think/thought they meant November 19 2022 (I think I'm getting 12th gen mixed up with 7/10nm tech)

 

[hotaru.hino]

hm, well


I found some 4000Mhz sticks with 9 and 18 latencies? does that sound good?
https://pcpartpicker.com/products/m...00000000&Z=65536002,65536004,131072004&page=1

To me latency doesn't matter because 1. it's been going on a downward trend over time anyway and 2. most times the absolute latency is within a handful of nanoseconds. Maybe those handful of nanoseconds matter in some use cases, but I don't do something that demands that much precision. Focus on RAM speed first. Then if you find a number of kits with the same speed, go with the lower latency.

However I do have to suffice with a caveat: faster RAM speeds has rapidly diminishing returns. For instance, going above DDR4-3600 on Ryzen processors is not a good idea unless you overclock the memory controller because that's how fast the memory controller can operate. You can use faster RAM, but latency will go up because the memory controller can't service the RAM every clock cycle. Not sure about Intel, but historically Intel's CPUs don't really see improvement past a point either.

So basically, the sweet spot is DDR4-3600 for the latest stuff.

 

[Finnegan1616]

To me latency doesn't matter because 1. it's been going on a downward trend over time anyway and 2. most times the absolute latency is within a handful of nanoseconds. Maybe those handful of nanoseconds matter in some use cases, but I don't do something that demands that much precision. Focus on RAM speed first. Then if you find a number of kits with the same speed, go with the lower latency.

However I do have to suffice with a caveat: faster RAM speeds has rapidly diminishing returns. For instance, going above DDR4-3600 on Ryzen processors is not a good idea unless you overclock the memory controller because that's how fast the memory controller can operate. You can use faster RAM, but latency will go up because the memory controller can't service the RAM every clock cycle. Not sure about Intel, but historically Intel's CPUs don't really see improvement past a point either.

So basically, the sweet spot is DDR4-3600 for the latest stuff.

I think I'm going with this kit, has a decent amount (lots) of RAM, it's one kit, it's 4,000Mhz (pretty fast), and has relatively low CAS/First Word Latencies

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/cg...-gb-ddr4-4000-cl18-memory-f4-4000c18q-128gtzr

 

[jeremyj_83]

I think I'm going with this kit, has a decent amount (lots) of RAM, it's one kit, it's 4,000Mhz (pretty fast), and has relatively low CAS/First Word Latencies

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/cg...-gb-ddr4-4000-cl18-memory-f4-4000c18q-128gtzr

The difference in performance between the CL18 3600 and CL18 4000 isn't worth the $200 price difference.

 

[Zerk2012]

So I'm saving for a new pc (here's an idea of the specs https://pcpartpicker.com/list/hCbdBc), but I want to make sure I get it right (don't really want to spend $7,000+ on the second best if the best was <1000 more), so I'm trying to choose RAM, but I'm not sure whether how much I should prioritize Speed/Timings/Latency/something else, I thought I read that you can divide the timings by the speed, but I'm not sure, the two main RAM sticks are these G.Skill Trident Z RGB and the Crucial Ballistix MAX, both are 16gb modules, and both have good timing/speed etc, but I came to ask which is better (also don't be bothered by budget, unless it's really crazy like this $4000 ram bundle thing https://pcpartpicker.com/product/ny...8-x-16gb-ddr4-3200-memory-cmd128gx4m8b3200c16, I'm not a millionaire)



tldr: I'm limited to 1.4v by my processor, and want the best ram, so how to I make use of timing/speed/latency etc to find the best, and budget isn't a problem

thanks in advance

I would ask what this PC would be used for?
Most of your parts look like just random overpriced parts that you could spend less and get the same performance.

Example you can overclock the i7 0.2 and get the same performance.

PassMark Software - CPU Benchmarks

PassMark Software - CPU Benchmarks - Over 1 million CPUs and 1,000 models benchmarked and compared in graph form, updated daily!

www.cpubenchmark.net

2K less with so close to the same performance you could not tell a difference.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bxdzt8

 

[gskill support]

Here are the memory kits and specifications G.Skill has validated for the Asus ROG Maximus XIII Extreme motherboard:

https://www.gskill.com/configurator...524725352&chipset=1612504860&model=1612505248

 

[Finnegan1616]

The difference in performance between the CL18 3600 and CL18 4000 isn't worth the $200 price difference.

I mean, is there any part of that pc that is worth it?

I would ask what this PC would be used for?
Most of your parts look like just random overpriced parts that you could spend less and get the same performance.

Example you can overclock the i7 0.2 and get the same performance.

PassMark Software - CPU Benchmarks

PassMark Software - CPU Benchmarks - Over 1 million CPUs and 1,000 models benchmarked and compared in graph form, updated daily!

www.cpubenchmark.net

2K less with so close to the same performance you could not tell a difference.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/bxdzt8

yeah, but I'd rather have top of the line rather than use 6k for next to top of the line, then I have bragging rights for at least 2 weeks until they release a processor that is 1% faster, and in 10 or so years, unless they come out with something truly revolutionary, this pc will still be pretty near top of the line

for example, take my current pc, my dad bought it for ~$3,000 5 years ago, and it's still above average, with an i7-8700 and gtx-1080, whereas the average gamer uses a 1060 and I think an i7-6700, and at the time the parts weren't even on the top 10, so it should be relatively "future proof"

also I'll probably use it for flexing, and in a few years, college

 

[Zerk2012]

I mean, is there any part of that pc that is worth it?

yeah, but I'd rather have top of the line rather than use 6k for next to top of the line, then I have bragging rights for at least 2 weeks until they release a processor that is 1% faster, and in 10 or so years, unless they come out with something truly revolutionary, this pc will still be pretty near top of the line

for example, take my current pc, my dad bought it for ~$3,000 5 years ago, and it's still above average, with an i7-8700 and gtx-1080, whereas the average gamer uses a 1060 and I think an i7-6700, and at the time the parts weren't even on the top 10, so it should be relatively "future proof"

also I'll probably use it for flexing, and in a few years, college

Their no such thing as future proofing.
Never heard of Flexing.

You get to a point very quickly building a PC where you can add a lot more to the cost and get none to very little gain.

That is also making me question the massive amount of money your spending on the storage or even if you need 64gb of memory.

If your talking about building one for bragging rights you might rethink your priorities. Build you a 4K PC. Unless your using perfesional work programs where time is money your just wasting money.

 

[jeremyj_83]

I mean, is there any part of that pc that is worth it?

yeah, but I'd rather have top of the line rather than use 6k for next to top of the line, then I have bragging rights for at least 2 weeks until they release a processor that is 1% faster, and in 10 or so years, unless they come out with something truly revolutionary, this pc will still be pretty near top of the line

for example, take my current pc, my dad bought it for ~$3,000 5 years ago, and it's still above average, with an i7-8700 and gtx-1080, whereas the average gamer uses a 1060 and I think an i7-6700, and at the time the parts weren't even on the top 10, so it should be relatively "future proof"

also I'll probably use it for flexing, and in a few years, college

To be honest there is a LOT of waste in that build out that you have. You could easily spend 1/2 that and have a computer that is 99.5% as fast or possibly faster depending on the application.

I have never heard of flexing until looking it up right now. Overall the system requirements aren't very high according to Adobe.
Flex Builder 4 system requirements

Windows

• 2-GHz or faster processor
• Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 3, Windows Vista® Ultimate or Enterprise (32 or 64 bit running in 32-bit mode), Windows Server® 2008 (32 bit), or Windows 7 (32 or 64 bit running in 32-bit mode)
• 1 GB of RAM (2 GB recommended)
• 1 GB of available hard-disk space
• Java™ Virtual Machine (32 bit): IBM® JRE 1.5, Sun™ JRE 1.5, IBM JRE 1.6, or Sun JRE 1.6
• 1024 x 768 display (1280x800 recommended) with 16-bit video card
• DVD-ROM drive
• Eclipse 3.4.2 or 3.5 (for plug-in installation)

You can run that on an old computer from 2010 without any issues. You don't need a super high end system to run that.

When I built my current desktop in 2013, I was planning on using an i5 but got a good deal on an i7. Overall with the additions to bring it to 32GB RAM, the now very dated GPU, and adding a 2TB NVMe drive I have spent at most $2k and it has lasted me for 8 years. For gaming it would still be fine if I had a better GPU. There are limitations to what I can do from my professional side (VMware Administrator) as a home lab due to only having 32GB RAM. However, outside of being used for a home lab or video editing it is still quite usable.

Here is a new build out for you that will be better balanced in the price/performance area. This does include some "premium" features such as a high end case, PCIe 4 NVMe drive, and CL16 RAM. Going with a different case, PCIe 3 NVMe only drives, and CL18 RAM could easily drop the price another $200.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($389.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($107.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard ($195.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($154.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Gigabyte AORUS NVMe Gen4 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Mushkin Pilot-E 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($193.50 @ Newegg)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB Founders Edition Video Card ($1500.00)
Case: Fractal Design Define 7 Dark ATX Mid Tower Case ($181.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS FO48U 47.5" 3840x2160 Monitor ($1500.00)
Total: $4529.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-10 09:16 EDT-0400

To get Windows for cheaper follow this guide https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-or-cheap,5717.html. Your monitor isn't a bad choice being a 4k OLED and highly regarded. One other thing to look at would be something in the 3840x1600 resolution areas. I personally have found that ultrawide monitors are of more use than a standard widescreen format. While you would lose some vertical resolution, you would have a wider screen which is MUCH nicer for FPS or professional work. Alternatively there are 4k ultrawides or the Samsung Odyssey G9 which is 5120x1440 @ 240hz (2x 27" 1440p monitors without the bezel). You could also use the Ryzen 5900X once that is in stock to have a 12c/24t CPU. However, the 5800X is already very good and goes toe to toe with the i9-11900k. I only did 32GB RAM because for 99.9% of usage that is more than enough for the next decade. Right now 8GB is minimum, 16GB is standard, and 32GB is used for high end. Anything more than that you are doing specific professional work.

 

[Finnegan1616]

Their no such thing as future proofing.
Never heard of Flexing.

You get to a point very quickly building a PC where you can add a lot more to the cost and get none to very little gain.

That is also making me question the massive amount of money your spending on the storage or even if you need 64gb of memory.

If your talking about building one for bragging rights you might rethink your priorities. Build you a 4K PC. Unless your using perfesional work programs where time is money your just wasting money.

my father bought a pc 5 years ago and the only reason I'm buying a new one is so I can have one if/when I move out

it has 128gb of memory, and once again, a mix between bragging rights (flexing) and future proofing, I just have trouble believing I can ever use 8tb of storage, even in 30 years

I also want to have some enjoyment of building a new pc, and I'm planning on an engineering degree, so I might have to render stuff in college, just a possiblity

To be honest there is a LOT of waste in that build out that you have. You could easily spend 1/2 that and have a computer that is 99.5% as fast or possibly faster depending on the application.

I have never heard of flexing until looking it up right now. Overall the system requirements aren't very high according to Adobe.
Flex Builder 4 system requirements

Windows

• 2-GHz or faster processor
• Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 3, Windows Vista® Ultimate or Enterprise (32 or 64 bit running in 32-bit mode), Windows Server® 2008 (32 bit), or Windows 7 (32 or 64 bit running in 32-bit mode)
• 1 GB of RAM (2 GB recommended)
• 1 GB of available hard-disk space
• Java™ Virtual Machine (32 bit): IBM® JRE 1.5, Sun™ JRE 1.5, IBM JRE 1.6, or Sun JRE 1.6
• 1024 x 768 display (1280x800 recommended) with 16-bit video card
• DVD-ROM drive
• Eclipse 3.4.2 or 3.5 (for plug-in installation)

You can run that on an old computer from 2010 without any issues. You don't need a super high end system to run that.

When I built my current desktop in 2013, I was planning on using an i5 but got a good deal on an i7. Overall with the additions to bring it to 32GB RAM, the now very dated GPU, and adding a 2TB NVMe drive I have spent at most $2k and it has lasted me for 8 years. For gaming it would still be fine if I had a better GPU. There are limitations to what I can do from my professional side (VMware Administrator) as a home lab due to only having 32GB RAM. However, outside of being used for a home lab or video editing it is still quite usable.

Here is a new build out for you that will be better balanced in the price/performance area. This does include some "premium" features such as a high end case, PCIe 4 NVMe drive, and CL16 RAM. Going with a different case, PCIe 3 NVMe only drives, and CL18 RAM could easily drop the price another $200.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($389.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($107.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard ($195.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($154.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Gigabyte AORUS NVMe Gen4 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Mushkin Pilot-E 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($193.50 @ Newegg)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB Founders Edition Video Card ($1500.00)
Case: Fractal Design Define 7 Dark ATX Mid Tower Case ($181.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS FO48U 47.5" 3840x2160 Monitor ($1500.00)
Total: $4529.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-10 09:16 EDT-0400

To get Windows for cheaper follow this guide https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-or-cheap,5717.html. Your monitor isn't a bad choice being a 4k OLED and highly regarded. One other thing to look at would be something in the 3840x1600 resolution areas. I personally have found that ultrawide monitors are of more use than a standard widescreen format. While you would lose some vertical resolution, you would have a wider screen which is MUCH nicer for FPS or professional work. Alternatively there are 4k ultrawides or the Samsung Odyssey G9 which is 5120x1440 @ 240hz (2x 27" 1440p monitors without the bezel). You could also use the Ryzen 5900X once that is in stock to have a 12c/24t CPU. However, the 5800X is already very good and goes toe to toe with the i9-11900k. I only did 32GB RAM because for 99.9% of usage that is more than enough for the next decade. Right now 8GB is minimum, 16GB is standard, and 32GB is used for high end. Anything more than that you are doing specific professional work.

about ultrawide monitors, sorry, but it's kind of dumb

you're paying more money for less screen area, and I would rather take the 4k above the extra hz from the G9, I'm not a professional gamer, I'm probably going to be playing mainly minecraft, so extra hz is more of an added bonus

the 11900k is just to give the idea of intel-based, partially bc intel 12th gen/10nm will be out by the time I buy it, and also because I like intel

my current pc has these specs


i7-8700 (14nm I think, 4 cores, 3.2ghz, seen boosts up to 4.28)
gtx 1080 (not ti, but still pretty decent)
32gb DDR3-2133(I think) RAM
2tb sata ssd storage



the next pc will be around these specs

i9-12900k (or whatever is best) (3.5gz, up to 5.3, 16c 24t)
rtx 3080 ti (unless something better comes out)
128gb DDR5-4000 (probably)
8tb M.2 pcie gen 5 storage (probably)

basically, when I buy it, intel is going to be top dog, and that's why it has intel parts, to get an idea of compatibilities

 

[Finnegan1616]

To be honest there is a LOT of waste in that build out that you have. You could easily spend 1/2 that and have a computer that is 99.5% as fast or possibly faster depending on the application.

I have never heard of flexing until looking it up right now. Overall the system requirements aren't very high according to Adobe.
Flex Builder 4 system requirements

Windows

• 2-GHz or faster processor
• Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 3, Windows Vista® Ultimate or Enterprise (32 or 64 bit running in 32-bit mode), Windows Server® 2008 (32 bit), or Windows 7 (32 or 64 bit running in 32-bit mode)
• 1 GB of RAM (2 GB recommended)
• 1 GB of available hard-disk space
• Java™ Virtual Machine (32 bit): IBM® JRE 1.5, Sun™ JRE 1.5, IBM JRE 1.6, or Sun JRE 1.6
• 1024 x 768 display (1280x800 recommended) with 16-bit video card
• DVD-ROM drive
• Eclipse 3.4.2 or 3.5 (for plug-in installation)

You can run that on an old computer from 2010 without any issues. You don't need a super high end system to run that.

When I built my current desktop in 2013, I was planning on using an i5 but got a good deal on an i7. Overall with the additions to bring it to 32GB RAM, the now very dated GPU, and adding a 2TB NVMe drive I have spent at most $2k and it has lasted me for 8 years. For gaming it would still be fine if I had a better GPU. There are limitations to what I can do from my professional side (VMware Administrator) as a home lab due to only having 32GB RAM. However, outside of being used for a home lab or video editing it is still quite usable.

Here is a new build out for you that will be better balanced in the price/performance area. This does include some "premium" features such as a high end case, PCIe 4 NVMe drive, and CL16 RAM. Going with a different case, PCIe 3 NVMe only drives, and CL18 RAM could easily drop the price another $200.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($389.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($107.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard ($195.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($154.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Gigabyte AORUS NVMe Gen4 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Mushkin Pilot-E 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($193.50 @ Newegg)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB Founders Edition Video Card ($1500.00)
Case: Fractal Design Define 7 Dark ATX Mid Tower Case ($181.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS FO48U 47.5" 3840x2160 Monitor ($1500.00)
Total: $4529.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-10 09:16 EDT-0400

To get Windows for cheaper follow this guide https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-or-cheap,5717.html. Your monitor isn't a bad choice being a 4k OLED and highly regarded. One other thing to look at would be something in the 3840x1600 resolution areas. I personally have found that ultrawide monitors are of more use than a standard widescreen format. While you would lose some vertical resolution, you would have a wider screen which is MUCH nicer for FPS or professional work. Alternatively there are 4k ultrawides or the Samsung Odyssey G9 which is 5120x1440 @ 240hz (2x 27" 1440p monitors without the bezel). You could also use the Ryzen 5900X once that is in stock to have a 12c/24t CPU. However, the 5800X is already very good and goes toe to toe with the i9-11900k. I only did 32GB RAM because for 99.9% of usage that is more than enough for the next decade. Right now 8GB is minimum, 16GB is standard, and 32GB is used for high end. Anything more than that you are doing specific professional work.

also, not sure how I'd feel about pirating windows on an 8k pc

 

[Finnegan1616]

To be honest there is a LOT of waste in that build out that you have. You could easily spend 1/2 that and have a computer that is 99.5% as fast or possibly faster depending on the application.

I have never heard of flexing until looking it up right now. Overall the system requirements aren't very high according to Adobe.
Flex Builder 4 system requirements

Windows

• 2-GHz or faster processor
• Microsoft® Windows® XP with Service Pack 3, Windows Vista® Ultimate or Enterprise (32 or 64 bit running in 32-bit mode), Windows Server® 2008 (32 bit), or Windows 7 (32 or 64 bit running in 32-bit mode)
• 1 GB of RAM (2 GB recommended)
• 1 GB of available hard-disk space
• Java™ Virtual Machine (32 bit): IBM® JRE 1.5, Sun™ JRE 1.5, IBM JRE 1.6, or Sun JRE 1.6
• 1024 x 768 display (1280x800 recommended) with 16-bit video card
• DVD-ROM drive
• Eclipse 3.4.2 or 3.5 (for plug-in installation)

You can run that on an old computer from 2010 without any issues. You don't need a super high end system to run that.

When I built my current desktop in 2013, I was planning on using an i5 but got a good deal on an i7. Overall with the additions to bring it to 32GB RAM, the now very dated GPU, and adding a 2TB NVMe drive I have spent at most $2k and it has lasted me for 8 years. For gaming it would still be fine if I had a better GPU. There are limitations to what I can do from my professional side (VMware Administrator) as a home lab due to only having 32GB RAM. However, outside of being used for a home lab or video editing it is still quite usable.

Here is a new build out for you that will be better balanced in the price/performance area. This does include some "premium" features such as a high end case, PCIe 4 NVMe drive, and CL16 RAM. Going with a different case, PCIe 3 NVMe only drives, and CL18 RAM could easily drop the price another $200.
PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X 3.8 GHz 8-Core Processor ($389.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: ARCTIC Liquid Freezer II 280 72.8 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($107.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard ($195.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($154.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Gigabyte AORUS NVMe Gen4 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($169.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Mushkin Pilot-E 2 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($193.50 @ Newegg)
Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 24 GB Founders Edition Video Card ($1500.00)
Case: Fractal Design Define 7 Dark ATX Mid Tower Case ($181.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Gigabyte AORUS FO48U 47.5" 3840x2160 Monitor ($1500.00)
Total: $4529.42
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2021-09-10 09:16 EDT-0400

To get Windows for cheaper follow this guide https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-or-cheap,5717.html. Your monitor isn't a bad choice being a 4k OLED and highly regarded. One other thing to look at would be something in the 3840x1600 resolution areas. I personally have found that ultrawide monitors are of more use than a standard widescreen format. While you would lose some vertical resolution, you would have a wider screen which is MUCH nicer for FPS or professional work. Alternatively there are 4k ultrawides or the Samsung Odyssey G9 which is 5120x1440 @ 240hz (2x 27" 1440p monitors without the bezel). You could also use the Ryzen 5900X once that is in stock to have a 12c/24t CPU. However, the 5800X is already very good and goes toe to toe with the i9-11900k. I only did 32GB RAM because for 99.9% of usage that is more than enough for the next decade. Right now 8GB is minimum, 16GB is standard, and 32GB is used for high end. Anything more than that you are doing specific professional work.

also I think those Flex System Requirements are for 2008 lol, double the cpu, get 32/64x more ram, 5,000x more storage, windows 10 pro, then it's a flex

 

[jeremyj_83]

also, not sure how I'd feel about pirating windows on an 8k pc

You aren't pirating Windows at all. These are legitimate Window's licenses that MS sells to companies for cheap for them to resell.

 

[jeremyj_83]

also I think those Flex System Requirements are for 2008 lol, double the cpu, get 32/64x more ram, 5,000x more storage, windows 10 pro, then it's a flex

That was the most current information about Flex system requirements that I found. From Stackoverflow in 2017 "Flex is technically still officially supported (since 2011, by the Apache Foundation rather than by Adobe), but considering the deprecation of Flash, along with its diminished presence in developer questions, it’s hard to say that it’s a technology with a future." Basically flex is a dead technology and thinking that you need more specs than the official 2008 ones for Flex is not worth while.

128GB RAM for a desktop is not worth the money. Sure you have bragging rights but by the time 128GB is needed for a desktop that one will be LONG dead. In 2012 4GB RAM was minimum, 8GB was mainstream, and 16GB was high-end. 9 years later we have only doubled those recommendations. Once you get to 32GB RAM, Windows is able to expand out almost fully into RAM so most things are cached. For example my desktop after 8 years of use will boot using 8GB RAM. Right now I am running Slack, a VPN, Outlook, RDP secession, and 4 tabs in Firefox and I'm using 10GB RAM out of 32GB. Of the 22GB free, Windows is using 21GB for cache. It will probably be AT LEAST 5 years before 32GB is more mainstream. As I've said before, unless you are doing certain professional work or using it as a home lab you won't see any benefit going more than 32GB RAM. Whenever I get around to building my next desktop I am going to go 64GB RAM. However, I will be using it for a VMware home lab so lots of RAM is required.

Right now we don't know if Intel is going to be king. All we have are rumors. AMD has shown that adding their V-Cache can increase gaming performance by 15% or a generational performance growth. That added V-Cache could keep AMD on top of Intel when Intel released Alder Lake. Most people in the industry figure Intel won't be caught up to AMD until at least 2025. Rocket Lake is at an IPC disadvantage compared to Zen 3 and Alder Lake might only slightly overtake Zen 3 for IPC. On the server side the Ice Lake Xeons have only caught up to Zen 2 based Epycs. Sapphire Rapids (the server equivalent to Alder Lake to be released H1 2022) will only get them to current Zen 3 based Epycs (those were released 5 months ago).

 

[Finnegan1616]

You aren't pirating Windows at all. These are legitimate Window's licenses that MS sells to companies for cheap for them to resell.

it had the "free" option (pirating) in the link, I thought that was what you meant

That was the most current information about Flex system requirements that I found. From Stackoverflow in 2017 "Flex is technically still officially supported (since 2011, by the Apache Foundation rather than by Adobe), but considering the deprecation of Flash, along with its diminished presence in developer questions, it’s hard to say that it’s a technology with a future." Basically flex is a dead technology and thinking that you need more specs than the official 2008 ones for Flex is not worth while.

128GB RAM for a desktop is not worth the money. Sure you have bragging rights but by the time 128GB is needed for a desktop that one will be LONG dead. In 2012 4GB RAM was minimum, 8GB was mainstream, and 16GB was high-end. 9 years later we have only doubled those recommendations. Once you get to 32GB RAM, Windows is able to expand out almost fully into RAM so most things are cached. For example my desktop after 8 years of use will boot using 8GB RAM. Right now I am running Slack, a VPN, Outlook, RDP secession, and 4 tabs in Firefox and I'm using 10GB RAM out of 32GB. Of the 22GB free, Windows is using 21GB for cache. It will probably be AT LEAST 5 years before 32GB is more mainstream. As I've said before, unless you are doing certain professional work or using it as a home lab you won't see any benefit going more than 32GB RAM. Whenever I get around to building my next desktop I am going to go 64GB RAM. However, I will be using it for a VMware home lab so lots of RAM is required.

Right now we don't know if Intel is going to be king. All we have are rumors. AMD has shown that adding their V-Cache can increase gaming performance by 15% or a generational performance growth. That added V-Cache could keep AMD on top of Intel when Intel released Alder Lake. Most people in the industry figure Intel won't be caught up to AMD until at least 2025. Rocket Lake is at an IPC disadvantage compared to Zen 3 and Alder Lake might only slightly overtake Zen 3 for IPC. On the server side the Ice Lake Xeons have only caught up to Zen 2 based Epycs. Sapphire Rapids (the server equivalent to Alder Lake to be released H1 2022) will only get them to current Zen 3 based Epycs (those were released 5 months ago).

I meant to say future resisting, not proofing