Raspberry Pi 2 Arrives At $35, Can Run Windows 10

[Guest]

The new computer features a quad-core ARM Cortex-A7 processor and 1 GB SDRAM.

Raspberry Pi 2 Arrives At $35, Can Run Windows 10 : Read more

 

[Vlad Rose]

I am so glad now that I put off picking up a Raspberry Pie 1 for xmas I was afraid it wouldn't be powerful enough for my needs, but this one looks like it will handle the job perfectly.

 

[StarBound]

I looked away from RP because I needed something that could run windows but now that you can and it is still one of the smallest devices out there I might just look at it again.

 

[Super_Nova]

Very nice indeed

 

[Vlad Rose]

I looked away from RP because I needed something that could run windows but now that you can and it is still one of the smallest devices out there I might just look at it again.

It may be 'Windows', but not the same as the one running on your desktop. Still a different CPU architecture. Basically, it'll be the same as Windows RT and only apps written for it will work (think app store only).

 

[dstarr3]

WANT with a double-capital W.

 

[IInuyasha74]

I'm still not satisfied enough with the performance of these devices. Given they aren't tied to a battery and can even have active cooling, I feel that they should have at least Cortex-A9 processors with a graphics chip capable of 4k video playback. You can buy a $40 TV dongle that has a quad-core Cortex-A9 chip running at 1.6Ghz, and Mali-400MP4 running at 533Mhz, 2GB DDR3, and 8GB storage. All of which runs off USB power and can sit unnoticed behind your TV. Given that, I don't see the attraction for this.

 

[Vlad Rose]

I'm still not satisfied enough with the performance of these devices. Given they aren't tied to a battery and can even have active cooling, I feel that they should have at least Cortex-A9 processors with a graphics chip capable of 4k video playback. You can buy a $40 TV dongle that has a quad-core Cortex-A9 chip running at 1.6Ghz, and Mali-400MP4 running at 533Mhz, 2GB DDR3, and 8GB storage. All of which runs off USB power and can sit unnoticed behind your TV. Given that, I don't see the attraction for this.

Which stick that is completely open to put an OS on? That may actually be a better option for me (planning on mainly putting retroarch on it and possibly Kodi/XBMC).

 

[Guest]

It can run Ubuntu! Yeees!!

 

[xxsk8er101xx]

Nice I will definitely pick this up and starting building my robot army of Raspberry pi 2's.

 

[Reepca]

got a b+ for christmas. At the same time, my brother got one for me. We both wanted the same thing, and we both got it too early. ARMv7 means it can run ubuntu... man I would love that. Especially lubuntu, since it's meant for potatoes.

Oh well. 1.0B+ should still be good enough for what we want to do.

 

[ZolaIII]

When I told how this is logical and they should have gone with it couple months back when they presented B+ version I only got negative response & tags around hire. It's a shame what this site & community is become. Only thing worse than that is that Broadcom is done with mobile SoC's so their will not be a next gen of Raspberry Pi or at least not backward compatible one.

 

[chaotixblade]

This is absolutely sick. I'll be buying one shortly...

 

[kenjitamura]

How does it compare to the ODROID-C1?

 

[IInuyasha74]

How does it compare to the ODROID-C1?

Overall better. The Odroid-C1 uses Amlogic S805 SoC, which uses Cortex-A5 cores. Those cores are even lower performance than Cortex-A7, and really are a poor choice for just about anything. Even web browsing.

It likely does have a faster graphics chip, but that doesn't matter when the CPU is so slow.

 

[VIPChristian]

What can you use it for ?
Obviously, it's not a gaming computer.

 

[CaedenV]

Hmmm... $35 for this, or $80-120 for the Intel stick thing they are releasing soon? Decisions decisions.

 

[bit_user]

I looked away from RP because I needed something that could run windows but now that you can and it is still one of the smallest devices out there I might just look at it again.

It won't be fast. Per MHz, it's much slower than modern x86 CPUs, and it's clocked at only 900 MHz. Worse yet, its I/O is still USB 2-based, and slow no matter what kind of SDHC card you use.

You'd do much better with a J1900 Celeron, if your budget can accommodate that. Plus, that would let you run full-blown Windows and x86/x86-64 apps.

 

[bit_user]

How does it compare to the ODROID-C1?

Overall better. The Odroid-C1 uses Amlogic S805 SoC, which uses Cortex-A5 cores. Those cores are even lower performance than Cortex-A7, and really are a poor choice for just about anything. Even web browsing.

It likely does have a faster graphics chip, but that doesn't matter when the CPU is so slow.

*sigh* No. I actually signed on with the intention of saying quite the opposite.

Let's start with the cores. They're both in-order single-issue cores, with the A7 being only about 21% more efficient. But the ODROID C1 is clocked 66.7% faster. So, the net result should be ~47% better performance by the C1.

Next, let's move on to to the RAM. The C1 uses DDR3, while Pi 2.0 uses LPDDR2. The chip used by the C1 is spec'd to run as fast as DDR3-2166. Unfortunately, I don't know how fast Pi 2.0's is clocked, but surely not that fast.

Now, for the biggest difference: I/O. I bought a nice, fast SDHC card for my Pi model B, and it's still dog slow. The problem is that it's connected over USB 2.0. The C1 features an eMMC interface that's many times faster. I don't (yet) have one, so I can't say exactly how much, but my experience with the Pi is that I/O to the SD card, USB ports, or anything else you try to connect has been one of its weakest areas. And yet, that's not changed in version 2.

Finally, there's the network. The Pi model B has a USB-connected 10/100 Ethernet port, as does version 2.0. The C1 features an integrated controller and a gigabit phy. I can't even get more than about 75 Mbps out of my Pi. Now, you can argue that 100 Mbps should be enough for most people (assuming v2.0 can even hit that), but you can't argue that it's better than the C1. I certainly don't enjoy waiting while I'm reading/writing files over the network.

An honorable mention is the C1's hardware H.265 decoder, although I'm not sure whether it yet has the necessary software support.

There's really no contest - the C1 is faster in every way. What the Pi has going for it is slightly lower power consumption and unmatched support among the user community. If what you want is an inexpensive, low power single-board-computer for running Ubuntu or Android, then buy a C1. But if you want to tinker and do hardware projects and have a lot of options for using the GPIO port, then get a Pi v2.0.

 

[Reepca]

How does it compare to the ODROID-C1?

Overall better. The Odroid-C1 uses Amlogic S805 SoC, which uses Cortex-A5 cores. Those cores are even lower performance than Cortex-A7, and really are a poor choice for just about anything. Even web browsing.

It likely does have a faster graphics chip, but that doesn't matter when the CPU is so slow.

*sigh* No. I actually signed on with the intention of saying quite the opposite.

Let's start with the cores. They're both in-order single-issue cores, with the A7 being only about 21% more efficient. But the ODROID C1 is clocked 66.7% faster. So, the net result should be ~47% better performance by the C1.

Next, let's move on to to the RAM. The C1 uses DDR3, while Pi 2.0 uses LPDDR2. The chip used by the C1 is spec'd to run as fast as DDR3-2166. Unfortunately, I don't know how fast Pi 2.0's is clocked, but surely not that fast.

Now, for the biggest difference: I/O. I bought a nice, fast SDHC card for my Pi model B, and it's still dog slow. The problem is that it's connected over USB 2.0. The C1 features an eMMC interface that's many times faster. I don't (yet) have one, so I can't say exactly how much, but my experience with the Pi is that I/O to the SD card, USB ports, or anything else you try to connect has been one of its weakest areas. And yet, that's not changed in version 2.

Finally, there's the network. The Pi model B has a USB-connected 10/100 Ethernet port, as does version 2.0. The C1 features an integrated controller and a gigabit phy. I can't even get more than about 75 Mbps out of my Pi. Now, you can argue that 100 Mbps should be enough for most people (assuming v2.0 can even hit that), but you can't argue that it's better than the C1. I certainly don't enjoy waiting while I'm reading/writing files over the network.

An honorable mention is the C1's hardware H.265 decoder, although I'm not sure whether it yet has the necessary software support.

There's really no contest - the C1 is faster in every way. What the Pi has going for it is slightly lower power consumption and unmatched support among the user community. If what you want is an inexpensive, low power single-board-computer for running Ubuntu or Android, then buy a C1. But if you want to tinker and do hardware projects and have a lot of options for using the GPIO port, then get a Pi v2.0.

Only thing I'd like to address is the implication that 75 mbps is somehow remotely slow. 75 mbps is still almost 10 MB/s, which is lightning fast compared to the rate I and most people I know get - the best of which peaks at 1 MB/s (the others I know have, if possible, even slower and less reliable internet).

10 MB/s means downloading an image of ubuntu in under 2 minutes. That's *mindblowingly* fast for most of the people I know.

 

[ZolaIII]

@ bit_user
The SoC on Pi 2 is from some reason under clocked it's nominal speed (used on anything else) is 1.2GHz & can be pushed up to 1.6GHz. The Broadcom's video core VI is much, faster, much more efficient than old MALI 400 (MP4). I don't know from where you got a funny idea that it have a hardware H265 decoder? H265 hardware decoder whose introduced from Arm with a last gen of MALI's (8 gen) & I am certain it won't be used with anything else. Last but not least is that ARM is being intensively criticized for not having or helping in development of open source MALI driver's, on the other hand Video core open source driver got included in mesa & it will mature. Cortex A5 whose never build to go over 1GHz & their is no auto optimizations profiles for it in GCC so you must use A7 profile and optimize some flags by hand. I know this as I worked with a Qualcomm MSM8625 SoC. On the end That Broadcom soc had most design wins from all A7 based SoC's up to date.

 

[bit_user]

Only thing I'd like to address is the implication that 75 mbps is somehow remotely slow. 75 mbps is still almost 10 MB/s, which is lightning fast compared to the rate I and most people I know get - the best of which peaks at 1 MB/s (the others I know have, if possible, even slower and less reliable internet).

I wasn't talking about file transfer speeds over the internet - just my LAN. From my Pi, I use NFS to access volumes on my fileserver. I also run a Samba server on my Pi, so that I can access its files from a Windows PC and potentially other devices.

Every machine on my network has a Gigabit link, except for an old laptop and my Pi. And I'm itching to upgrade my PCs to 10 GigE, as soon as NIC and switch prices fall some more. Even my 8-year-old PS3 has gigabit.

 

[bit_user]

@ bit_user
The SoC on Pi 2 is from some reason under clocked it's nominal speed (used on anything else) is 1.2GHz & can be pushed up to 1.6GHz.

They were actually planning to release it at 800 MHz, but pushed it up to 900 (http://makezine.com/2015/02/02/eben-upton-raspberry-pi-2/). At that speed, they say it will get hotter than the old Pi's, when all four cores are maxed. I'm sure some people will overclock their Pi 2.0's, but I wonder how far they can push it without exceeding the power available through the USB power connection. Also worth considering is the fact that the LPDDR2 probably doesn't have nearly as much headroom and will surely be a bottleneck.

I don't know from where you got a funny idea that it have a hardware H265 decoder?

From the AMLogic S805 datasheet, I quote:

One additional processor offloads the Cortex-A5 CPUs by handling all video CODEC processing. The Amlogic Video Engine (AVE) is a dedicated hardware video decoder and encoder capable of decoding 1080p resolution video ... The AVE supports full formats including MVC, MPEG-1/2/4, VC-1/WMV, AVS, RealVideo, MJPEG streams, H.264, H265 and also JPEG pictures with no size limitation. The independent encoder is able to encode in JPEG and H.264 up to 1080p at 30fps.

Sure, there are faster things out there than the S805. I'm not saying it's the ultimate SoC. But even if you take away any potential advantages the ODROID C1 has from its higher clockspeed, it's still a winner in my book for simply avoiding the I/O bottlenecks that cripple the Pi. Speaking from experience, the Pi's I/O is excruciatingly slow. I could hardly believe they didn't fix that.

 

[bit_user]

I'm still not satisfied enough with the performance of these devices. Given they aren't tied to a battery and can even have active cooling, I feel that they should have at least Cortex-A9 processors with a graphics chip capable of 4k video playback. You can buy a $40 TV dongle that has a quad-core Cortex-A9 chip running at 1.6Ghz, and Mali-400MP4 running at 533Mhz, 2GB DDR3, and 8GB storage. All of which runs off USB power and can sit unnoticed behind your TV. Given that, I don't see the attraction for this.

They're constrained by cost and by a desire to remain compatible with Model B+ cases, peripherals, and software. And why would they care about 4k playback? The Pi's primary mission is to be a low-cost education platform. The makers and tinkerers are probably second. And they're probably least concerned about anyone who just wants a cheap media player for their 4k screen.

If you want more performance, a couple options are the ODROID-U3 (quad- Cortex-A9 @ 1.7 GHz) and ODROID-XU3 (8-core A15/A7 big.LITTLE config @ 2 GHz). And I'm sure there are comparable products, from other manufacturers. I've just spent more time looking at ODROID, because I find their C1 so compelling for its price. But I'd also recommend the J1800 and J1900 Celerons as higher-end options.

I don't think any of those will deliver 4k playback, but feel free to tell us if you find something that will.

 

[Vlad Rose]

I'm still not satisfied enough with the performance of these devices. Given they aren't tied to a battery and can even have active cooling, I feel that they should have at least Cortex-A9 processors with a graphics chip capable of 4k video playback. You can buy a $40 TV dongle that has a quad-core Cortex-A9 chip running at 1.6Ghz, and Mali-400MP4 running at 533Mhz, 2GB DDR3, and 8GB storage. All of which runs off USB power and can sit unnoticed behind your TV. Given that, I don't see the attraction for this.

They're constrained by cost and by a desire to remain compatible with Model B+ cases, peripherals, and software. And why would they care about 4k playback? The Pi's primary mission is to be a low-cost education platform. The makers and tinkerers are probably second. And they're probably least concerned about anyone who just wants a cheap media player for their 4k screen.

If you want more performance, a couple options are the ODROID-U3 (quad- Cortex-A9 @ 1.7 GHz) and ODROID-XU3 (8-core A15/A7 big.LITTLE config @ 2 GHz). And I'm sure there are comparable products, from other manufacturers. I've just spent more time looking at ODROID, because I find their C1 so compelling for its price. But I'd also recommend the J1800 and J1900 Celerons as higher-end options.

I don't think any of those will deliver 4k playback, but feel free to tell us if you find something that will.

You are right that the Pi is meant for development/education, however most buyers end up buying them for either a cheap media player or for emulators. In that case, there are better options at the same price (MK809IV is one).

Wow those ODROIDS are expensive (starting at $180). Again, unless you're strictly looking at using it for development or must run an ARM processor, you're better off going with a mini-itx system at that point; AMD APU + mini-itx board + memory can easily fit under that budget.

The MK809 4k claims 4k playback, and is under $100.

The title of the article I think is a little misleading. Most people when they think "It can run Windows 10", they're thinking a full blown computer or media playback; not a device meant for development.