Re-Boxing My Exploding Galaxy Note 7 In Samsung's Fireproof Box

[jimmysmitty]

It is better than what Apple did in the past with issues, i.e. the infamous "You're holding it wrong" issue that everyone got a free bumper cover.

Ehhhhh... how can you compare "My phone loses signal strength if I hold it a certain way" to "We've fkd up so bad we're recalling and permanently discontinuing the line"

Not comparing the issue however I always felt that Apple should have recalled the obviously flawed product instead of doing a simple patch to it.

Quite easily. Just don't be biased. Apple have exploding iPhone 7's, they bricked iPhones with a new IOS update, Bending phones - This could lead to battery damage, and more explosions. It's quite easy to make the other side sound worse than they are, so just be in the middle not try to be on one side. :lol:

I have only seen two reports of battery issues with the iPhone 7 and in one of them, the battery merely bloated enough to separate the screen from the body, no harm done. Bricked phones won't spontaneously combust and batteries failing after the phone has been structurally compromised will be a potential issue with any device, nothing specific to Apple or any product there.

The Note 7 on the other hand catches fire without apparent provocation, there have over a hundred reports of it doing so and we have yet to hear what the real cause of the issue was. While batteries may be the obvious suspect, the real ssue could still be a material or design flaw elsewhere. The simple fact that replacement phones have also caught on fire clearly indicates that whatever Samsung first identified as the original cause was either incorrect or only one part of a bigger problem.

My thoughts are with the USB Type-C possibly. Only because it is capable of pulling up to 100w through it and I am wondering if a software or firmware issue is pulling more than it should with the Fast charging feature.

It can't be the SoC, it uses the same one the S7 and S7 edge does in its respective markets (A Snapdragon 820 or Exynos 8890) not do I think it is the Fast Charging version, they stuck with 2.0 instead of 3.0.

It uses the same 2560x1440 AMOLED type screen, just bigger, so that shouldn't cause it.

It does have a Iris scanner and a bit smaller battery than the S7 Edge (3500mAh vs 3600mAh) but other than that they are very similar which makes it odd.

So to me it can only be one of a few things:

1. Software/firmware issue. Software might be less since S&/S& Edge also have Android 6.0.1 but their firmware's might be different due to the S-Pen.

2. Faulty battery

3. Faulty charging connection

4. Faulty design in the layout, doubt it as iFixit found it is almost the same as the S7 and S7 Edge and the battery even has a bit of separation from the components: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Samsung+Galaxy+Note7+Teardown/66389

So to me I would say it is either 2 or 3 since short of the size the thing is almost identical to a S7 or S7 Edge that do not have the same issue.

Yeah, I don't remember a product, phone or otherwise failing so badly and dangerously that the line has been recalled and permanently discontinued.

Apple sure has have their issues, but AFAIK, they've never had a phone recall for ANY reason, and that's not to say they ignore problems. I'm on my 2nd iphone 7. Spent 5 minutes on the phone, walked into an Apple store, and walked out with a new one 10min later.
Samsung is doing the right thing, but should we all shout hooray because they got it right 3rd time?

Apple and Dell recalled millions of laptops due to faulty batteries in 2006 (Apple 1.8 million and Dell 4 million). Not the same product but the same root cause, a Li-Ion battery. It will probably happen again unless they find a better solution for Li-Ion or a better alternative to Li-Ion.

 

[InvalidError]

So to me it can only be one of a few things:

1. Software/firmware issue. Software might be less since S&/S& Edge also have Android 6.0.1 but their firmware's might be different due to the S-Pen.

Firmware is actually more plausible than you think, but you need to expand the scope a little. In modern devices, nearly every chip has an internal CPU of some sort: the touch decoder/digitizer has a DSP, the RF firmware has software defined radio components and baseband processing, same for WiFi, bluetooth and most other key functions. Even power management chips often have internal micro-controllers to coordinate power state changes across multiple rails. Faulty firmware in the PMIC could definitely ruin a Note 7 owner's day.

Another option would be dodgy or damaged components. For example: a bad resistor or capacitor in one of the supply rails' feedback loop could cause the PMIC to fry the CPU, RAM, camera, etc., overheat the battery and cause the battery to fail. A dodgy component here may be as simple as damaged end-caps letting cleaning solvents and moisture inside the component during board manufacture. The assembled board may pass factory testing but the components will corrode post-manufacture/QA. If one of those damaged components ends up in a critical location, you eventually get a catastrophic failure.

I wonder how many hundred or thousand phones Samsung will be testing to hopefully catch some failures as they play out.

 

[turkey3_scratch]

Something is going on, either they're pushing batteries too hard with the device, not enough failsafe's built in, using cheap overrated batteries that can't handle it or something.

It can't be brushed off like "well what do you expect from a $20 phone".

Or Samsung's root issue might not be the battery at all. Safely using lithium batteries requires strict adhesion to the battery's charging and discharging specifications. Any flaw in the battery management circuit can also cause batteries to fail catastrophically.

Self-igniting batteries are not any more acceptable in a $20 phone than a $1000 one. If a $20 phone was found to have an abnormal rate of spontaneous combustion, it would get a recall ordinance from consumer protection too.

Then how come there are all these dangerous computer power supplies without protections and that will catch on fire before even being pushed to their rated specifications and nothing is done about those?

 

[InvalidError]

Then how come there are all these dangerous computer power supplies without protections and that will catch on fire before even being pushed to their rated specifications and nothing is done about those?

How many of those dangerous power supplies are illegal or unauthorized imports with fraudulent safety certification marks or no safety certification whatsoever? Consumer protection cannot force a foreign manufacturer to recall products it doesn't distribute in your country and even if it tried to, it has no jurisdiction to impose any sanction that the company might care about when the company decides to ignore recall notices.

BTW, safety certification does not care that the PSU fails catastrophically even at 0% load. It only cares that the PSU fails without causing significant damage to property or injuries. If it blows up or put itself out within the prescribed amount of time after catching on fire in a self-contained way, that's a pass as far as UL is concerned.

 

[jimmysmitty]

So to me it can only be one of a few things:

1. Software/firmware issue. Software might be less since S&/S& Edge also have Android 6.0.1 but their firmware's might be different due to the S-Pen.

Firmware is actually more plausible than you think, but you need to expand the scope a little. In modern devices, nearly every chip has an internal CPU of some sort: the touch decoder/digitizer has a DSP, the RF firmware has software defined radio components and baseband processing, same for WiFi, bluetooth and most other key functions. Even power management chips often have internal micro-controllers to coordinate power state changes across multiple rails. Faulty firmware in the PMIC could definitely ruin a Note 7 owner's day.

Another option would be dodgy or damaged components. For example: a bad resistor or capacitor in one of the supply rails' feedback loop could cause the PMIC to fry the CPU, RAM, camera, etc., overheat the battery and cause the battery to fail. A dodgy component here may be as simple as damaged end-caps letting cleaning solvents and moisture inside the component during board manufacture. The assembled board may pass factory testing but the components will corrode post-manufacture/QA. If one of those damaged components ends up in a critical location, you eventually get a catastrophic failure.

I wonder how many hundred or thousand phones Samsung will be testing to hopefully catch some failures as they play out.

PMIC firmware would make sense but it should be a simple OTA update to all the phones. I mean they sent one out that cut the original Note 7s battery to only charge to 80%.

That said, from what I have read Samsung has not been able to reproduce the issue in a controlled lab which, as having been in PC repair, makes it even harder to figure out.

 

[InvalidError]

PMIC firmware would make sense but it should be a simple OTA update to all the phones. I mean they sent one out that cut the original Note 7s battery to only charge to 80%.

The MAX77838's datasheet does not appear to be available but other Maxim PMIC chips make no mention of any user-accessible firmware and their block diagrams seem to suggest hard-wired logic or mask-programmable controller instead. Limiting the battery charge to less than 100% is simple enough to do without touching the PMIC logic/firmware: simply change the values that get programmed into the PMIC's registers (end of charge voltage, maximum charge current, maximum temperature, etc.) over the I2C bus. A flaw in the PMIC, the values it receives from the CPU or corrupted I2C bits by other devices on the I2C bus are still possibilities though.

Whatever the issue is, it is really curious how the S7 which uses nearly all the same parts got spared.

 

[jimmysmitty]

PMIC firmware would make sense but it should be a simple OTA update to all the phones. I mean they sent one out that cut the original Note 7s battery to only charge to 80%.

The MAX77838's datasheet does not appear to be available but other Maxim PMIC chips make no mention of any user-accessible firmware and their block diagrams seem to suggest hard-wired logic or mask-programmable controller instead. Limiting the battery charge to less than 100% is simple enough to do without touching the PMIC logic/firmware: simply change the values that get programmed into the PMIC's registers (end of charge voltage, maximum charge current, maximum temperature, etc.) over the I2C bus. A flaw in the PMIC, the values it receives from the CPU or corrupted I2C bits by other devices on the I2C bus are still possibilities though.

Whatever the issue is, it is really curious how the S7 which uses nearly all the same parts got spared.

I can see that.

And short of sensors for the S-Pen and the Iris scanner, it is pretty much the same.