Real News on the Japanese Reactors would be nice

[badge]

There is still a 30 miles radius restricted zone around Chernobyl after all these years. The amount of damage and fallout we are dealing with will be for your lifetime.

 

[Crashman]

There is still a 30 miles radius restricted zone around Chernobyl after all these years. The amount of damage and fallout we are dealing with will be for your lifetime.

Dude, you're the one who said to sandbag the reactor. That's the kind of problem they're having to this day at Chernobyl.

I don't know why nobody else has proposed this, but wouldn't "lead bagging" it be better? The problem with sand is that it melts and ruins the integrity of the concrete, wouldn't lead pellets improve the situation if they melted? Remember that lead is a SINK, it can draw the heat out of the rods and disperse it into the surroundings without leaking radiation.

 

[badge]

lead sandbags. this is possible? should be if it is not.

 

[badge]

if lead was used to containg radiation and that lead was compromised, melted etc., the lead would no longer serve it's intended purpose...to limit the amount of "scatter" radiation. Lead used in the proper application, filter etc., can control the amount of scatter radiation, the direction, speed and obviously the amount employed.

 

[mdsiu]

potassium iodide is toxic in sustained dosages - eat iodized salt and deepwater fish instead

 

[badge]

true and good advice. are you an md from siu?

 

[Crashman]

if lead was used to containg radiation and that lead was compromised, melted etc., the lead would no longer serve it's intended purpose...to limit the amount of "scatter" radiation. Lead used in the proper application, filter etc., can control the amount of scatter radiation, the direction, speed and obviously the amount employed.

If a large quantity of pelets melted it would contaminate the lead. But the lead would spread the heat, self sealing. It seems like the solution after that would be to add more lead.

 

[badge]

Lead is used to filter radiation exposure. The lead is precisely conformed, tool and died, into a precise mechanical fit working radiation filter. With lead filters, radiation exposure or the creation of radiation is controlled when using x-ray. What the lead filter controls is the amount of radiation that is employed while controlling the 'scatter'. Also the speed and accuracy of the x-ray (and any radiation) is controlled through the use of lead filters. I wasn't aware that lead actually absorbed radiation. Could be. We have some lead filters that have been in use 25 years now. It's not the filter that wears out or needs replaced, it ithe 'head' or 'tube' that creates the x-ray that weakens over time. Radiation can be 'controlled' and lead is one application to do so. Of course we are dealing with the ultimate 'scatter' or uncontrolled release of radiation effect. It will be interesting to see if lead comes in to play should the facility be 'buried'.

Note I install and I adjust the filters as needed for which particular x-ray of the cranium needed. I also adjust the x-ray head as to the amount of x-ray to produce depending on body size. So, I control the amount, speed, distance and accuracy of the x-ray as well as controll the radiation and particularily the 'scatter' radiation before taking any craniofacial x-ray. One thing I do that is not common in x-ray is to x-ray the cranium. Do you believe we work with oral surgeons asking for my head film because they do not have the equiptment.

As long as I do my job properly, there is no scatter radiation through the use of our 'control'. When that control is not deployed correctly, the scatter radiation is real.

 

[Crashman]

Lead is used to filter radiation exposure. The lead is precisely conformed, tool and died, into a precise mechanical fit working radiation filter. With lead filters, radiation exposure or the creation of radiation is controlled when using x-ray. What the lead filter controls is the amount of radiation that is employed while controlling the 'scatter'. Also the speed and accuracy of the x-ray (and any radiation) is controlled through the use of lead filters. I wasn't aware that lead actually absorbed radiation. Could be. We have some lead filters that have been in use 25 years now. It's not the filter that wears out or needs replaced, it ithe 'head' or 'tube' that creates the x-ray that weakens over time. Radiation can be 'controlled' and lead is one application to do so. Of course we are dealing with the ultimate 'scatter' or uncontrolled release of radiation effect. It will be interesting to see if lead comes in to play should the facility be 'buried'.

Note I install and I adjust the filters as needed for which particular x-ray of the cranium needed. I also adjust the x-ray head as to the amount of x-ray to produce depending on body size. So, I control the amount, speed, distance and accuracy of the x-ray as well as controll the radiation and particularily the 'scatter' radiation before taking any craniofacial x-ray. One thing I do that is not common in x-ray is to x-ray the cranium. Do you believe we work with oral surgeons asking for my head film because they do not have the equiptment.

As long as I do my job properly, there is no scatter radiation through the use of our 'control'. When that control is not deployed correctly, the scatter radiation is real.

Yes, lead reflects most particles and absorbs others, it only needs to be thick enough...I proposed lead because it also acts as a sink, so they could sink the heat into the ground through the pool walls if they rods had good contact with the walls (via lead). My idea is to find a permanent solution to the heat problem, that also helps them deal with the radiation problem.

Edit: From what I learned in Physics, it does the same thing as Gold only slightly less effectively. As you'll remember, Gold foil was used in the original experiments that confirmed our most widely-accepted model of atomic structure. If we wanted "better" we could us gold, but I'm thinking several tons of metal just for the cooling pond might be a bit of a procurement problem...

 

[badge]

Be interesting to see if lead is used in the end to containg the leaking radiation. I suppose at this point the radiation levels omitted into the atmosphere could be stronger before weaker. Be interesting to watch how this plays out. The creation of the scatter radiation has to get weaker or burn out at some point. How to containing it until it does seems to be a perplexing question. This is an instance when you don't want to say, "give it time." I think some measures to solve such a future situation should be top priority. What's the lifespan of the reactor doing what it's doing with the material it has currently in the condition it is in? Probably no one really knows. I can't venture even a guess.

 

[Crashman]

Be interesting to see if lead is used in the end to containg the leaking radiation. I suppose at this point the radiation levels omitted into the atmosphere could be stronger before weaker. Be interesting to watch how this plays out. The creation of the scatter radiation has to get weaker or burn out at some point. How to containing it until it does seems to be a perplexing question. This is an instance when you don't want to say, "give it time." I think some measures to solve such a future situation should be top priority. What's the lifespan of the reactor doing what it's doing with the material it has currently in the condition it is in? Probably no one really knows. I can't venture even a guess.

All I know is that sandbagging the thing will make it a moderate problem for many many years. By moderate I mean it will leak a far larger amount of radiation, leading to a larger no-man's land and freaked-out Americans.

Larger than what? Larger than if they got it under control, of course. Sandbags don't solve the problem they only reduce the damage of an ongoing problem.

 

[badge]

TMI and Cernobyl surely gave incintive to find a solution for this situation as it has occured once again. All the education and technology since those disasters appears to have gone into building bigger better, newer facilities. The U.S. has hundreds of these power plants. No plan should one 'fail'. There's a nuclear power plant on the Pacific Ocean about 60 miles from here. It fails and the people responsible for it's operation have no idea of how to stop the resulting radiation? Just stay away? There must be enough nuclear material and power in that facility to spew for most the upcoming decade. We have bit off more than we can chew in this regard. It is all very overwhelming.

 

[Crashman]

TMI and Cernobyl surely gave incintive to find a solution for this situation as it has occured once again. All the education and technology since those disasters appears to have gone into building bigger better, newer facilities. The U.S. has hundreds of these power plants. No plan should one 'fail'. There's a nuclear power plant on the Pacific Ocean about 60 miles from here. It fails and the people responsible for it's operation have no idea of how to stop the resulting radiation? Just stay away? There must be enough nuclear material and power in that facility to spew for most the upcoming decade. We have bit off more than we can chew in this regard. It is all very overwhelming.

There's enough nuclear waste in most of these facilities to continue their operation for a couple hundred years, if only we could separate it properly. Oh, and we can, we just don't.

The problem I see is too much high-level waste, hence the problem with the pools they're having now.

BTW, I don't even know why we're using this type of reactor in the first place, considering its high amount of waste and constant need for monitoring. Here's some light reading:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Experimental_Breeder_Reactor_II

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Dude, you're the one who said to sandbag the reactor. That's the kind of problem they're having to this day at Chernobyl.

I don't know why nobody else has proposed this, but wouldn't "lead bagging" it be better? The problem with sand is that it melts and ruins the integrity of the concrete, wouldn't lead pellets improve the situation if they melted? Remember that lead is a SINK, it can draw the heat out of the rods and disperse it into the surroundings without leaking radiation.

Now they'd be adding toxic heavy metal to the mix 😛..

I dunno - that thought occurred to me as well - dump lead on the melted cores and then cap with concrete. However the lead would eventually find its way into the groundwater, but the reactor is at the edge of the ocean anyway..

 

[fazers_on_stun]

potassium iodide is toxic in sustained dosages - eat iodized salt and deepwater fish instead

Saw somewhere that it would take 27 pounds of iodized salt to equal the amount of iodine in one potassium iodide pill - you'd die of salt poisoning long before you got to even 4 ounces.. Not to mention what it'd do to your blood pressure (before you died that is) 😛..

 

[Reynod]

LOL - I'm considering stealing that for a sig line. If I ever get into a hippy forum that is..

Hey Reynod - can you start a leftover Hippy forum?? 😛 I think Badge would love to sign up, and maybe SS too 😀.

The News and Leisure section is where we encourage you to post "captivating" stories that you think will get others to engage positively. I tried to tidy things up and kick things along.

We get a lot of traffic for this area - check the sheer number of "reads" for some of the threads.

As badge is the master of off-topic discussions expect that things will meander along ... I will let things run their course and only close threads that have been inactive for a while. You can ask for them to be reopened too !

The only rules are that you need to follow the TOU ... so you can't discuss Mrs Phillips here ... well ... not graphically, and you need to post something that is "Newsworthy" ... whatever that means I can't begin to explain as I am merely a disabled forklift driver in real life ... and possibly uglier than your dog.

Crashman's de-industrialisation comment was a doozy ... yes.

RE: Hippy forum we would need Pike to post here ... he was the last surviving hippy from the old forum ...

badge is "hippyish" but his taste in music doesn't end with Bob Dylan ... and he is way too capitalistic ... has flash cars and servants.

badge possibly has servants for his servants ... who might dress as hippies?

StrangeStranger is more like James Dean than a hippy ...

 

[badge]

3. Shielding: The term 'biological shield' refers to a mass of absorbing material placed around a reactor, or other radioactive source, to reduce the radiation to a level safe for humans.[1] The effectiveness of a material as a biological shield is related to its cross-section for scattering and absorption, and to a first approximation is proportional to the total mass of material per unit area interposed along the line of sight between the radiation source and the region to be protected. Hence, shielding strength or "thickness" is conventionally measured in units of g/cm2. The radiation that manages to get through falls exponentially with the thickness of the shield. In x-ray facilities, the plaster on the rooms with the x-ray generator contains barium sulfate and the operators stay behind a leaded glass screen and wear lead aprons. Almost any material can act as a shield from gamma or x-rays if used in sufficient amounts.

My comment: This information relates to the idea of preventing 'scatter' radiation. In Japan you have damaged radioactive material compromised to the point of emitting harmful amounts of radiation into the atmosphere. And no 'biological shield' to contain or even limit the radiation. With my work in x-ray the only way to create the 'scatter' effect is to engage the tube (reactor or light source if you will) without the system's built in 'biological shield'...the proper lead filter. With x-ray the amount, speed and accuracy to which the lead filtered light is applied is controlled. Radiation is controlled in the clinical x-ray setting. Any 'biological shields' that were in place in Japan's reactors have been breached totally. Raw unfiltered, uncompromised radiation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_protection

 

[badge]

Quote: badge is "hippyish" but his taste in music doesn't end with Bob Dylan ... and he is way too capitalistic ... has flash cars and servants.

I only appear that way to attract attention. A problem you hippies obviously never had a problem with.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[buwish]

That guy could single handedly run the world out of moose. 😀

 

[badge]

I think He married Cher for a couple of days back in the 70's. Any word on when Cher's next Farewell Tour is scheduled?

 

[buwish]

Found an interview/article with Richard Thornburgh, the governor of Pennsylvania at the time of the TMI incident. He offers some good advice for what the Japanese need/needed to do in terms of getting the correct information out there:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/dailybeast/20110312/ts_dailybeast/12884_threemileislandmeltdownrichardthornburghsadviceforjapan_1

 

[Reynod]

The interview with the GE engineer who quit when working on the Mark I was also very good.

Japan should seriously invest in those wave generators ... next time a tsunami hits they should be able to sell surplus power to Russia ... instead of buying LPG from them (now).

 

[badge]

Yeah there have been a lot of news flashbacks about three mile island in recent days. That facility is still operating. The one reactor that was not damaged is still in operation. From what I understand most of the radiation that was leaked in 1979 was contained within the facility.

 

[fyasko]

fact is nuclear power plants are safe... tsunamis are not... all these "journalists" are idiots, nuclear power is safe. we need more nuclear power stations in america, burning coal isn't good for anyone except coal miners.

 

[buwish]

I've read a few books on the TMI incident (I am not saying that I am an expert or anything like that), read a lot of the NRC stuff, and checked out old newspaper articles. My opinion is that the whole thing was blown out of proportion at the time, mainly because there was a serious lack of info coming from the plant itself and alot of assumptions from the NRC, federal, and state officials. The governor did a good job handling it though, as he made sure that the info was the best he could get before making a decision. Yes, it was a partial meltdown and that is not to be taken lightly, but overall the amount of radiation released was minimal in comparison to what it could have been.