Question Regarding "Harddrive Firmware"

[hakaru_eitara]

Hello :
I'd like to know something please:
—How can I determine if a hard disk's firmware has a problem?
some S.M.A.R.T attributes like : seek error rate, G-sense count, pending sector count, and reallocated sector count might indicate an issue. Is there a reliable method to confirm this?and what are the symptoms of firmware failing when it encounters issues ?

- What causes a hard drive's firmware to become corrupted, malfunction, or not function as well as it did before?


— How can change/reprogrammed a hard disk's firmware microcode?and How can access to hard's firmware ?

— If the firmware is embedded in ROM, can it be pullout? In what situations can the hard disk's ROM be removed?

- How can exactly distinguish whether a problem arises from firmware or from other components(other parts)? Are there devices available to recognize such issues? In many cases, the symptoms can overlap. how an expert figure out problem is exactly due to FW ?

- Some data recovery equipment companies offer devices for firmware repair. My question is: can't firmware issues be resolved with the software rather than requiring hardware tools?in which cases hardware is required ?

Thank You

 

[Lutfij]

Welcome to the forums, newcomer!

How can I determine if a hard disk's firmware has a problem?
Cross reference your particular HDD with the www and see if it's got any reported issues and if a particular firmware version is the root of the issue. I had to do it with Samsung HDD"s back in the day(2 decades ago).

 

[SkyNetRising]

—How can I determine if a hard disk's firmware has a problem?

Generally it doesn't.

some S.M.A.R.T attributes like : seek error rate, G-sense count, pending sector count, and reallocated sector count might indicate an issue.
Is there a reliable method to confirm this?and what are the symptoms of firmware failing when it encounters issues ?

SMART parameters are not firmware.
You examine SMART values, thresholds, data and you can tell, if it is failing or not.

- What causes a hard drive's firmware to become corrupted, malfunction, or not function as well as it did before?

Generally it doesn't.

— How can change/reprogrammed a hard disk's firmware microcode?and How can access to hard's firmware ?

Generally you can't. Unless manufacturer has released tome tool for firmware update.

— If the firmware is embedded in ROM, can it be pullout? In what situations can the hard disk's ROM be removed?

Everything can be disassembled/removed.
The problem is to put it back later and not cause damage in the process. LOL

- How can exactly distinguish whether a problem arises from firmware or from other components(other parts)?
Are there devices available to recognize such issues? In many cases, the symptoms can overlap. how an expert figure out problem is exactly due to FW ?

Those are questions for HDD manufacturer/ service repair/recovery technicians. Not for regular people.

can't firmware issues be resolved with the software rather than requiring hardware tools?in which cases hardware is required ?

Usually this requires specialized hardware.

 

[USAFRet]

I'd like to know something please:

Is the drive in question exposing any performance or usability issues?
If not, leave it alone and don't stress.

If it is, then you research. Look for issues regarding that particular serial number.
Any "problems" are almost never only your drive.

 

[hakaru_eitara]

if it is failing or not

I didn't get that , what failing?

SMART parameters are not firmware

So, can't use SMART to detect current problem earlier or existing if it is ?

Those are questions for HDD manufacturer/ service repair/recovery technicians. Not for regular people.

I like to know .

 

[hakaru_eitara]

Is the drive in question exposing any performance or usability issues?
If not, leave it alone and don't stress.

If it is, then you research. Look for issues regarding that particular serial number.
Any "problems" are almost never only your drive.

I get your point . Thank you
Just I m willing to know about FirmWare and how problems related to that can be distinguished.
Thank you

 

[USAFRet]

I get your point . Thank you
Just I m willing to know about FirmWare and how problems related to that can be distinguished.
Thank you

Drives fail.

Eventually, all of them. May be tomorrow, may be a decade from now.

The important part of "a hard drive" is the data on it. The physical drive is trivial.
This is why a comprehensive backup routine is crucial.

A couple of years ago, I had a 16TB Toshiba Enterprise drive go from 0 bad sectors to over 14k bad sectors in about a week.
It was 7 months old.

Move the data off to some other drive, warranty replacement.
Done.

There was no way to "predict" that was going to happen.
Right up until it started, it was perfect.

 

[hakaru_eitara]

A couple of years ago, I had a 16TB Toshiba Enterprise drive go from 0 bad sectors to over 14k bad sectors in about a week.
It was 7 months old.

Thanks for your response and Oh , so bad , did you alive harddrive ? What did you do ? Had you noticed before bad sector had been increasing ?
Ar moment , do you remember which S.M.A.R.T's attributes were abnormal or increased abnormally and significantly?

 

[USAFRet]

Thanks for your response and Oh , so bad , did you alive harddrive ? What did you do ? Had you noticed before bad sector had been increasing ?
Ar moment , do you remember which S.M.A.R.T's attributes were abnormal or increased abnormally and significantly?

It was a drive in my NAS, and the NAS OS told me.

 

[hakaru_eitara]

It was a drive in my NAS, and the NAS OS told me.

😑🙁🥴
What had been happened in that 4 days? What did you do ?
Did it have any mechanical problem ?
Finally, what did you do? Sent to recovery data or you did by yourself?

 

[fzabkar]

HDD - computer within computer:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?p=19087#p19087

A hard drive stores its firmware in two places. A small part is stored in a serial flash memory IC ("ROM") on the PCB, but the bulk of it is stored on the platters in a hidden, reserved "discware" area (System Area, SA). Firmware modules can become corrupted due to flipped bits in the ROM (I repaired one today), or the discware can become corrupt due to bugs or bad heads. Often when a head goes bad, those firmware modules which are updated during run-time become unreadable or corrupt. These modules typically include SMART, translator and defect lists.

Firmware modules are accessed using undocumented Vendor Specific Commands (VSCs).

Firmware problems in the ROM usually result in a no-spin scenario. Firmware problems in the SA usually cause the drive to hang and remain busy during its POST, or the drive may report a factory alias instead of its model number, or it may report a capacity of 0.

 

[USAFRet]

😑🙁🥴
What had been happened in that 4 days? What did you do ?
Did it have any mechanical problem ?
Finally, what did you do? Sent to recovery data or you did by yourself?

7 months old.
Warranty replacement.

When a drive starts to go bad, there is nothing you, the user, can do to "fix it".

This is specifically what backups are for.

 

[hakaru_eitara]

flipped bits

Thank you. I find an youtube video to see what causes bit flipping!!!! I understand what yiu mean.

(I repaired one today),

How did you understand problem is due to ROM ? and did you pullout ROM or by repairing you mean something like reprogram manually or updating it ?

translator and defect lists.

These are two SMART attributes showing discware issue when head going bad ?

 

[fzabkar]

The Grown Defect List (GList) and Primary Defect List (PList) are two firmware modules in the discware. When a head becomes weak, or a sector goes bad, the bad sector is replaced with a spare. This means that the SMART and GList modules need to be updated. The bad sector shows up in SMART as a reallocated sector, and the read error rate attribute may also reflect this.

If a drive doesn't spin up, and if it makes no sound, then the PCB is the first suspect. The ROM can be dumped using a professional software tool, or it can be read in a chip reader, either by desoldering it or by connecting a pogo pin adaptor or chip clip to the ROM in-circuit.

I have written my own tools to analyse ROM dumps, but in the most recent case I used F3RomExplorer (freeware) together with my own repair tool (open source).

 

[hakaru_eitara]

The Grown Defect List (GList) and Primary Defect List (PList) are two firmware modules in the discware. When a head becomes weak, or a sector goes bad, the bad sector is replaced with a spare. This means that the SMART and GList modules need to be updated. The bad sector shows up in SMART as a reallocated sector, and the read error rate attribute may also reflect this.

If a drive doesn't spin up, and if it makes no sound, then the PCB is the first suspect. The ROM can be dumped using a professional software tool, or it can be read in a chip reader, either by desoldering it or by connecting a pogo pin adaptor or chip clip to the ROM in-circuit.

I have written my own tools to analyse ROM dumps, but in the most recent case I used F3RomExplorer (freeware) together with my own repair tool (open source).

Thank you.
Storing firmware data apart from ROM and on the platter—where it can be scratched or, as you said, a weak head can cause defects—seems strange.

Firmware module which is designed to control and monitoring different parts of HDD could be damaged if one component or one area of platter defected !

Thanks for your explanation 🙏

 

[fzabkar]

Some firmware modules are related to security. Those are best stored in discware.

The size of the firmware modules is generally too big to fit within the limited onboard memory.

This resource contains firmware dumps from many different drives:

https://files.hddguru.com/index.php

 

[hakaru_eitara]

The size of the firmware modules is generally too big to fit within the limited onboard memory.

Just for fun 😁😀 manufacturer can make onboard memory larger or using new tech to minimize the size and increase capacity😃

This resource contains firmware dumps from many different drives:

https://files.hddguru.com/index.php

Thank you 🙏