Report: Intel Haswell Causing Concern Among Mobo Makers

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[citation][nom]luciferano[/nom]My computer from 2003 has a far faster CPU than any phone available, although its graphics is easily far inferior to many phones and tablets. Also, phone CPUs have crap FPUs compared to CPUs of the early 2000s and very late 1990s despite creeping up on them in integer performance.[/citation] I did say "2000", not 2003... there was a bit of a jump with Athlon XP/64 CPUs.

And if we talk about the new iPhone5 CPU which is about twice the performance of the previous 4S, which keeps up with the current Androids... then our phones are hitting 2002~03 CPU performance.

In 2000, my gaming card was the Voodoo Banshee (twice the performance of Voodoo1). I'd say cellphone graphic tech is about 2004 (GeForce Ti4600) level. I think in 2 years, our graphics may hit 2008 desktop levels (8600GT).
 
[citation][nom]ricardok[/nom] I only have:
1 wireless keyboard/mouse combo (usb)
1 monitor (hdmi)
1 headset (usb) and... that's all..
Internally: 4 sata being used.
externally: 2 usbs being used on the back, 2/3 on the front being used randomly.
So, I agree with CaedenV, I'm one of those that would enjoy having a smaller (and quieter) setup.

What it has that's a waste of space on the mobo?
- 7.1 sound that's so noisy that's impossible to use. / 2 gigabit ethernet ports (I fail to see why 2)
- 6 USB ports on the back (4 to me would be ok, + 4 on the front)
- 6 SATA ports (4 of those are Intel/JMicron ones that slow down the post for about 7 seconds)
- 2 eSATA on the back (would make more sense on the front).
- Floppy connector. Why, oh why?
- Optical audio out (I can see this working on an HTPC but on a fully fledge desktop?)[/citation] Then perhaps what you should get is a no-frills motherboard. Like the $45 ASRock H61M-DGS Micro ATX?
It still has that psky VGA port, but you slap an HDMI adapter to the DVI port. 6 USB ports, basic audio and 2 PCIe slots. That is about as featureless as they make them. Foxconn makes a mini ITX board with all those same ports even. Your board is old, so no need to blame SATA for performance issues. eSATA is dead... never quite worked right, crappy connector and short cables. USB3 and Thunderbolt destroys eSATA.

What your needs are, isn't the same as others. I'll spend $80 for a full featured Z77 mATX board like the GIGABYTE GA-Z77MX-D3H (Its $130 on newegg, but $80 in Dallas - go figure! But Newegg is tossing in 8GB RAM for free) I get a whole lot more for my $35 extra over a no-frills board:
- 4 memory slots / 4 PCIe Slots (I can do 8x8 SLI or Crossfire in PCIe 3.0)
- 2 SATA 6GB / 4 SATA 3GB ($50 more gets me 4 SATA 6GB/6 USB3.0 onboard - but Im going for size)
(With only a single SSD, maybe two... 2 SATA 6 ports is enough)
- 3 types of video ports (don't need, using gaming card)
- 8 USB ports (2 are 3.0)
- 5 audio ports
Firewire would be nice... 🙁



 
WHat we need is innovation. How about the mobos make a socket that lets you power the motherboard whilst you exercise kinda like from your bike as you pound round jigging to Miley Cyrus on YouTube.
 
No matter how much gets integrated into the CPU over time, there will always be new technology and features that will take a few years before they get integrated into the CPU or chipset. So motherboard makers will always be the only ones in a position to implement and offer the latest tech and features and differentiate themselves by how well they integrate these new features while making sure everything works well together.
 
[citation][nom]Shin-san[/nom]Though Intel I think used to be Foxconn.[/citation]

Intel was never Foxconn, but Intel branded motherboards are manufactured by Foxconn.
 
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]And it has a single PS/2 connector![/citation]
My 1155 Asus board only has one PS/2 connector and it was very annoying, as both my keyboard and mouse were PS/2. I had to use an extremely garbage USB mouse until I could upgrade.

I wish they'd just keep making motherboards with two PS/2 ports, for a few more years at least.
 
[citation][nom]luciferano[/nom]VGA can be dropped so long as we still have DVI-I, but I see no reason to drop microphone and line in. I don't use line in much anymore, but I stilll use microphones often and even if most people don't these days, a lot of people do and it's not like one or two additional audio jacks are really in the way of anything. Besides, audio jacks could be made to be dual-purpose. For example, one of my older computers had the line in and the second set of speaker channels sharing a port. Most people using surround sound wouldn't care about a microphone nor line in and most people who use microphone/line in probably don't use surround sound, so this could make sense.Besides, not every mainstream board has legacy ports such as PS/2, floppy, IDE/PATA, and serial/parallel port connectivity.Two Ethernet ports can be very useful for anyone who wants to do LAN teaming or have two LAN connections or simply having a spare should the primary fail. I've used machines that had two Ethernet ports on the board and I've throw in two additional Ethernet adapters to get even more for some networking solutions. It's an especially helpful feature for home servers, many of which use small boards.[/citation]
I am not saying to remove all legacy everything from every single mobo. But instead to make them extra features.
As an example: I just built a system for my MIL, and here is what she has connected:
1) wireless internet
2) monitor with onboard speakers running through HDMI
3) Wireless keys/mice on a single USB
4) webcam/mic via USB

-printer is on wireless
-her 'backup server' is just a drive plugged into the wireless router

It is a great high end home PC, that could game with the best of them if it had a proper GPU, but the point is that this is all the connectivity that 90+% of the market looks for or cares about. Sure I need more connectivity for my own rig, and I am sure that many readers here are in the same boat as me, but our rigs are not just for browsing the web and gaming. Many of us are using our rigs as home servers, or editing/production rigs, and we have a hundred different things plugged in all over for external drives, card readers, CC sliders, USB cables for phones and other portable devices, cameras (video and still), flash drives, etc. But for the typical home/business/gamer user they do not need all of that connectivity to have a very nice and yet very functional system.
 
[citation][nom]Pherule[/nom]My 1155 Asus board only has one PS/2 connector and it was very annoying, as both my keyboard and mouse were PS/2. I had to use an extremely garbage USB mouse until I could upgrade.I wish they'd just keep making motherboards with two PS/2 ports, for a few more years at least.[/citation]
They have been making USB keyboards for some 14 years now, and they stopped making mainstream PS/2 devices about 5 years ago. It is time to let the interface die.
 
I think a lot of people are missing the point. This talk of stripping out "legacy" stuff is like selling a car without door handles. It may be interesting, and may save a few bucks, but in the end how many customers are you really gonna get to buy your product with some small gimmick like that? The notes about adding wireless, on-board memory, and improved on-board audio aren't bad ideas, but again how much value will that really add? With memory so cheap, who wouldn't just settle for buying their own? Considering that audiophiles will always prefer an add-on card, there is a limit to what benefit and appeal advertising audio drivers will gain, especially since some are talking about using speakers embedded in their monitors or using headphones. And wireless would ultimately be about as standard as LAN if mobo makers started to put it in.

What they will need is something new. Added USB ports will only go so far. Thunderbolt will only go so far. I don't know what that thing is, but they'll need something completely new to impress but that can also be leveraged in a different way across manufacturers.
 
[citation][nom]DRosencraft[/nom]I think a lot of people are missing the point. This talk of stripping out "legacy" stuff is like selling a car without door handles. It may be interesting, and may save a few bucks, but in the end how many customers are you really gonna get to buy your product with some small gimmick like that? The notes about adding wireless, on-board memory, and improved on-board audio aren't bad ideas, but again how much value will that really add? With memory so cheap, who wouldn't just settle for buying their own? Considering that audiophiles will always prefer an add-on card, there is a limit to what benefit and appeal advertising audio drivers will gain, especially since some are talking about using speakers embedded in their monitors or using headphones. And wireless would ultimately be about as standard as LAN if mobo makers started to put it in.What they will need is something new. Added USB ports will only go so far. Thunderbolt will only go so far. I don't know what that thing is, but they'll need something completely new to impress but that can also be leveraged in a different way across manufacturers.[/citation]

Some motherboards have very high-end audio chipsets such as from Creative and most certainly don't need a discrete card even for audiophiles.
 
[citation][nom]caedenv[/nom]I am not saying to remove all legacy everything from every single mobo. But instead to make them extra features.As an example: I just built a system for my MIL, and here is what she has connected:1) wireless internet2) monitor with onboard speakers running through HDMI3) Wireless keys/mice on a single USB4) webcam/mic via USB-printer is on wireless-her 'backup server' is just a drive plugged into the wireless routerIt is a great high end home PC, that could game with the best of them if it had a proper GPU, but the point is that this is all the connectivity that 90+% of the market looks for or cares about. Sure I need more connectivity for my own rig, and I am sure that many readers here are in the same boat as me, but our rigs are not just for browsing the web and gaming. Many of us are using our rigs as home servers, or editing/production rigs, and we have a hundred different things plugged in all over for external drives, card readers, CC sliders, USB cables for phones and other portable devices, cameras (video and still), flash drives, etc. But for the typical home/business/gamer user they do not need all of that connectivity to have a very nice and yet very functional system.[/citation]

The problem is that 90% of the market does still care about a lot of that. A huge amount of people still use on-board audio and dropping its quality is not a very good idea. Dropping basic connectivity wouldn't impact price much if at all, but it would most certainly impact versatility. Motherboard manufacturers don't want to have huge product portfolios for several versions of each board with different connectivity. This would undoubtedly ruin any cost advantage inherent to the more basic boards dropping modern connectivity features.
 
Hmm this seems like an ITX thread hehe. Everything packed into the smallest space. I can see MBs going with embedded SSD and RAM (much like MBP). Or also CPU with built in SSD (128 GB) and RAM (8GB). I would pay 500-700 for a cpu like that, as long as it still had PCIe capabilities.
 
[citation][nom]pacioli[/nom]Firewire? :-/Didn't that I/O dissappear yet?[/citation]

It's still quite useful, especially when you want a non-bursty interface without having crap performance, something that USB is not. Heck, if Firewire kept getting updated, it could still be a major player. Regardless of that last sentence of mine, it still isn't dead. It's a common interface even today, although it's not used for as much as USB.
 
Someone mentioned remove ps/2 ports. Why? In a time when PS/2 is making a comeback why remove it? I prefer to keep my n-key rollover thank you! A converter isn't going to give me the same quality that ps/2 has.
 
If motherboard makers want a way to really differentiate their products, they need to look at the weaknesses they all currently have.

Ditch Realtek and VIA....their audio is garbage anyway. Replace these cheap, wannabe audio controllers and replace them with SoundCore3D audio chips. I was designed to be an integrated audio solution anyway....so why not? People would have considerably better audio.

Ditch the Realtek and Marvell integrated network controllers. The chips are cheap and generally crap. Broadcom and Intel have much better options that can be just as easily integrated onto a motherboard.

Stop pushing the "more power phases = better" crap. Just design a proper power section using high quality components and people/sales will come.

For PCIe x1 and x4 slots....use a secondary controller chip instead of gimping PCIe x16 slots.

Come up with new "features" that can set products apart.... Using a single chipset and enabling/disabling features based on the market position makes no sense and does nothing but ripoff consumers since we're paying for all the features of the chipset anyway.

It's not hard to differentiate products.... They need to stop designing multiple boards around every chipset. Take ASRock for example....14 motherboards based on the Z77 chipset and 10 based on X79. Fewer products, better added features...that's the key.
 
Inaccurate and quite ambiguous information. Power phase can mean several things. Most likely, it refers to Intel pushing all motherboard partners to implement full digital VRM. ASUS was the first to do it very successfully. Everyone else has been a bit slow adopting the design, but Intel was impressed with ASUS' Z77 / X79 DIGI+VRM implementation. GIGABYTE has also made the move as well in their Ultra Durable 5 (UP5) motherboards. The overall reason for digital VRM is up to 45% lower idle power consumption, more efficient Intel Turbo performance, and better overall consumption. In some cases, there is much less thermal output from components as well.
 
I read an article about Intel moving the RAM to on-chip as well.
sooner or later it seems all will be on-chip.

the days of artificial intelligence / Skynet / Borg assimilation is coming... LoL
 
[citation][nom]proffet[/nom]I read an article about Intel moving the RAM to on-chip as well.sooner or later it seems all will be on-chip.the days of artificial intelligence / Skynet / Borg assimilation is coming... LoL[/citation]

How is Intel going to move 4GiB-16GiB of memory onto a single chip when the largest DRAM chips are 1GiB chips (unless I've missed an advancement in DRAM chip capacity) that are far larger than any CPU die and aren't even used in consumer memory modules because they're too expensive? It isn't even reasonably practical right now. I doubt that 2GiB is even practical for being installed right on the CPU chip and even then, it would need to be a second die, not on the CPU die, because DRAM is made on a different type of process than Intel's CPUs. As far as I'm aware, that rumor of Intel eliminating system memory is BS, at least at this time and I can't even think of theoretical situations where it can be done right now nor sooner than the next few years, at least not for a system that is intended to run Windows.
 

really.? :sarcastic:
http://n4g.com/news/1076842/intel-to-do-away-with-dram-in-pcs
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/09/07/intel-to-do-away-with-dram-in-pcs/
 


The first link just says that Intel plans to do away with system memory as we know it and the second link not only didn't work, but the read full story link that I presume to be what your second link is also doesn't work. That proves absolutely nothing. I also notie how pretty much all of the comments in your first link are either indecisive about it or negative. I've read a story about this before and it had nothing supporting how Intel would do this, just that Intel wants to do it. Common sense and easily found information on system memory would imply that Intel is either not going to actually do this anytime soon or not going to do it at all given the extreme difficulty involved, that is unless this move by Intel is not to run a Windows system without memory, but something else.
 
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