- Status
dalethepcman
Distinguished
- Jul 1, 2010
- 1,636
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- 19,860
Feel free to vote me down if you think PC vendors have been pushing the technology envelope in every department.
Good 21" + monitors used to be 1900x1200 resolution and up, 15 years later good 21" + monitors are 1920x1080. Meanwhile companies are creating 4" lcd's with the same resolution. The mac mini is like 5x5x3 and holds a whole computer and has been available for 5 years, the smallest Dell/hp non laptop you can buy weighs about 15Lbs to this day.
You now see the Toshiba commercials where the executive imagines some weird zombie apocalyps because of a broken laptop then demands that use some new technology in their product, just airing this type of commercial is admitting they previously failed by choosing the worn path instead of breaking a new trail.
I applaud apple for kicking the PC industry in the teeth, because the (previously) largest companies within it have truly become lazy and must change their ways, or be consumed.
Good 21" + monitors used to be 1900x1200 resolution and up, 15 years later good 21" + monitors are 1920x1080. Meanwhile companies are creating 4" lcd's with the same resolution. The mac mini is like 5x5x3 and holds a whole computer and has been available for 5 years, the smallest Dell/hp non laptop you can buy weighs about 15Lbs to this day.
You now see the Toshiba commercials where the executive imagines some weird zombie apocalyps because of a broken laptop then demands that use some new technology in their product, just airing this type of commercial is admitting they previously failed by choosing the worn path instead of breaking a new trail.
I applaud apple for kicking the PC industry in the teeth, because the (previously) largest companies within it have truly become lazy and must change their ways, or be consumed.
They decided it was a good idea to make the case out of *magnesium*?? Apparently Microsoft did not read this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium#Physical_and_chemical_properties
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium#Physical_and_chemical_properties
eddieroolz
Splendid
- Sep 6, 2008
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At least in the case of HP, they probably have a love-hate relationship with Microsoft but when they tried to become a software-hardware company with webOS, they failed miserably. It just proved that a lot of hardware companies must continue relying on Microsoft for software, since they obviously cannot transform themselves.
[citation][nom]Be0wulf22[/nom]They decided it was a good idea to make the case out of *magnesium*?? Apparently Microsoft did not read this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magne [...] properties[/citation]
You do realize you're reading a page about elemental, pure magnesium right?
If it really did spontaneously rust and set off a fire, wouldn't you think it would have done that on stage?
[citation][nom]Be0wulf22[/nom]They decided it was a good idea to make the case out of *magnesium*?? Apparently Microsoft did not read this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magne [...] properties[/citation]
You do realize you're reading a page about elemental, pure magnesium right?
If it really did spontaneously rust and set off a fire, wouldn't you think it would have done that on stage?
eddieroolz
Splendid
- Sep 6, 2008
- 7,057
- 0
- 25,860
[citation][nom]godfather666[/nom]I feel it's becoming increasingly important that software and hardware be developed with the same spirit, if that makes sense.[/citation]
That is an excellent point. Mac OS X has always worked smoothly on lower hardware due to this. Same goes for the iPhone and iPod touch. A similar story could be said about BlackBerry OS as well.
Meanwhile, Windows has always been a resource hog relative to OS X, though it has improved drastically in recent years, probably due to the close cooperation of Microsoft and hardware companies.
Android is the fine example of what *not* to do. This is what happens when manufacturers don't control the path that OS is heading down. It becomes a bloated, sluggish OS that requires quad cores just to run at 80% smoothness of iPhone and WP7.
That is an excellent point. Mac OS X has always worked smoothly on lower hardware due to this. Same goes for the iPhone and iPod touch. A similar story could be said about BlackBerry OS as well.
Meanwhile, Windows has always been a resource hog relative to OS X, though it has improved drastically in recent years, probably due to the close cooperation of Microsoft and hardware companies.
Android is the fine example of what *not* to do. This is what happens when manufacturers don't control the path that OS is heading down. It becomes a bloated, sluggish OS that requires quad cores just to run at 80% smoothness of iPhone and WP7.
[citation][nom]Geronimo27[/nom]The only problem I see is that MS isn't know for making great hardware (or at least being behind the manufacture of great hardware). I don't know of anyone that has own a 360 that hasn't suffered the dreaded Red Ring of Death. My own experience with Microsoft branded mice and headsets has been pretty terrible, with each of those products breaking in less than a year of usage. Hopefully the Surface will be different but Microsoft + hardware typically leaves a sour taste in my mouth.[/citation]
I personally have not been able to find a better mouse than their MS Sidewinder x8, but ya, the XBox has had some issues, but still has been a great seller. I've had great success with a keyboard of theirs as well. I used it for over 10 years.
I personally have not been able to find a better mouse than their MS Sidewinder x8, but ya, the XBox has had some issues, but still has been a great seller. I've had great success with a keyboard of theirs as well. I used it for over 10 years.
- Jul 16, 2009
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[citation][nom]john15v16[/nom]@MS, 2 years too late...[/citation]
So let's just not bother at all right? Great, you should be the CEO of Microsoft instead, genius
So let's just not bother at all right? Great, you should be the CEO of Microsoft instead, genius
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
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[citation][nom]damianrobertjones[/nom]Consider Vista... It features new bits and bobs along with a nice new service called Superfetch which tried to cache events into memory for fast execution. What did the oems do? They released Laptops/Desktops with 256Mb/512Mb ram. Who got the blame for that? MS.[/citation]
CONSIDER THIS: Back in 2006 when vista was farted out of Microsoft's butt:
An entry level PC was about $400, XP with 512mb of RAM. Such a machine was good enough for basic users to do internet, email, play cards and even run MS-Office2003.
With Vista, the PC markers STILL had to meet that $400 price range to make the sale... But Vista's bugs and severe memory problems made even 2GB PCs run like shit. Funny how Windows7 runs with 1GB of RAM quite well.
So again, back in 2006... the cost of adding 2GB of RAM to a PC was $200! Those $400 PCs become $600 PCs and they DID NOT add any feature or function that cannot be done in XP. Even today, other than DX10~11, there is nothing out there that demands or requires Windows7.
CONSIDER THIS: Back in 2006 when vista was farted out of Microsoft's butt:
An entry level PC was about $400, XP with 512mb of RAM. Such a machine was good enough for basic users to do internet, email, play cards and even run MS-Office2003.
With Vista, the PC markers STILL had to meet that $400 price range to make the sale... But Vista's bugs and severe memory problems made even 2GB PCs run like shit. Funny how Windows7 runs with 1GB of RAM quite well.
So again, back in 2006... the cost of adding 2GB of RAM to a PC was $200! Those $400 PCs become $600 PCs and they DID NOT add any feature or function that cannot be done in XP. Even today, other than DX10~11, there is nothing out there that demands or requires Windows7.
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
- 2
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[citation][nom]DRosencraft[/nom]I remember being interested in the original tablet idea MSFT had. it was really a traditional laptop but you could swivel the screen around and lay it down flat. I would sooner buy something designed like that than an iPad styled tablet.[/citation]
So why didn't YOU? Or the millions of others who buy tablets? Go to lenovo.com, they have been selling such tablet/notebooks for 10 years. Well?
So why didn't YOU? Or the millions of others who buy tablets? Go to lenovo.com, they have been selling such tablet/notebooks for 10 years. Well?
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
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[citation][nom]godfather666[/nom]I wish Microsoft would just manufacture its own computers, like Apple. I'd like to buy a Microsoft branded laptop, for example.I feel it's becoming increasingly important that software and hardware be developed with the same spirit, if that makes sense.[/citation]
Microsoft is a software company. They'd go out of business pretty quick.
They only make money from Windows & Office.... everything else is in the black or red.
Also, that would mean NO MORE "build your own PC"... well, actually it would continue - with such people moving to Linux.
Microsoft is a software company. They'd go out of business pretty quick.
They only make money from Windows & Office.... everything else is in the black or red.
Also, that would mean NO MORE "build your own PC"... well, actually it would continue - with such people moving to Linux.
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
- 2
- 22,795
[citation][nom]Be0wulf22[/nom]They decided it was a good idea to make the case out of *magnesium*?? Apparently Microsoft did not read this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magne [...] properties[/citation]
OUCH! I forgot that? So if such a thing actually comes to market made from Magnesium, it'll be a real fire-hazard! It'll burn down your house since you can throw water on it and it'll still burn.
You can imagine what happens when there is a battery fire.
*BOOM*
PS: I guess the aluminum supplies are a bit short with Apple having first dibs.
OUCH! I forgot that? So if such a thing actually comes to market made from Magnesium, it'll be a real fire-hazard! It'll burn down your house since you can throw water on it and it'll still burn.
You can imagine what happens when there is a battery fire.
*BOOM*
PS: I guess the aluminum supplies are a bit short with Apple having first dibs.
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]CONSIDER THIS: Back in 2006 when vista was farted out of Microsoft's butt:An entry level PC was about $400, XP with 512mb of RAM. Such a machine was good enough for basic users to do internet, email, play cards and even run MS-Office2003.With Vista, the PC markers STILL had to meet that $400 price range to make the sale... But Vista's bugs and severe memory problems made even 2GB PCs run like shit. Funny how Windows7 runs with 1GB of RAM quite well.So again, back in 2006... the cost of adding 2GB of RAM to a PC was $200! Those $400 PCs become $600 PCs and they DID NOT add any feature or function that cannot be done in XP. Even today, other than DX10~11, there is nothing out there that demands or requires Windows7.[/citation]
Vista always ran great for me. It wasn't Vista that had all the bugs. There were 2 problems, the lack of ram on many of these machines, and the same problem that plagued XP at first. A new driver standard, which meant old hardware often didn't work, or even new hardware often had poorly written drivers, because the new standards weren't fully understood.
I had a top notch computer, so I had the ram. I also didn't have old hardware that had to have rewritten drivers, which were often poorly coded. As a result, it ran great. Windows 7 would have had the same problems back when Vista was released, but because Windows 7 is Vista with a few tweaks, it didn't have to live through the driver issues, and memory is cheap today.
Vista always ran great for me. It wasn't Vista that had all the bugs. There were 2 problems, the lack of ram on many of these machines, and the same problem that plagued XP at first. A new driver standard, which meant old hardware often didn't work, or even new hardware often had poorly written drivers, because the new standards weren't fully understood.
I had a top notch computer, so I had the ram. I also didn't have old hardware that had to have rewritten drivers, which were often poorly coded. As a result, it ran great. Windows 7 would have had the same problems back when Vista was released, but because Windows 7 is Vista with a few tweaks, it didn't have to live through the driver issues, and memory is cheap today.
meltbox360
Honorable
- Jun 13, 2012
- 52
- 0
- 10,630
[citation][nom]southernshark[/nom]I remember back in the 90s, people said the USA would always have the edge because we are better at innovating and Apple, Google, Intel and to some extent MS have kept that tradition true. But when you look at strict OEMs Samsung, Sony and Lenova are all more creative and innovative than Dell, HP, Gateway or any of that useless crowd. And both Samsung and Lenova are making real strides to be even better.Not a good sign for the future of the USA.[/citation]
Going to disagree. Thinkpads were good until lenovo got their hands on the brand and cut costs. The IBM thinkpads were a million times better. I think there is simply a lack of will to create solid products because they are more expensive to develop. Maybe this will lead to a new OEM emerging due to the incompetence of the current OEMs. Here's to hope.
Going to disagree. Thinkpads were good until lenovo got their hands on the brand and cut costs. The IBM thinkpads were a million times better. I think there is simply a lack of will to create solid products because they are more expensive to develop. Maybe this will lead to a new OEM emerging due to the incompetence of the current OEMs. Here's to hope.
meltbox360
Honorable
- Jun 13, 2012
- 52
- 0
- 10,630
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]CONSIDER THIS: Back in 2006 when vista was farted out of Microsoft's butt:An entry level PC was about $400, XP with 512mb of RAM. Such a machine was good enough for basic users to do internet, email, play cards and even run MS-Office2003.With Vista, the PC markers STILL had to meet that $400 price range to make the sale... But Vista's bugs and severe memory problems made even 2GB PCs run like shit. Funny how Windows7 runs with 1GB of RAM quite well.So again, back in 2006... the cost of adding 2GB of RAM to a PC was $200! Those $400 PCs become $600 PCs and they DID NOT add any feature or function that cannot be done in XP. Even today, other than DX10~11, there is nothing out there that demands or requires Windows7.[/citation]
To be honest Vista was never really that bad and it was designed with higher requirements however you cannot tell me that a computer that runs vista really slow is suitable for online browsing and for document work. My browser with a few tabs ALONE uses 500mb. I use waterfox (64bit build of firefox) and that is just the browser if you do not count the plugin container. Sure it could do day to day work but... a machine like that is for people who browse with a single window and maybe 1-2 tabs. Heck even my nettop (netbook desktop) has a gig of ram and with an atom cpu and it does okay.
To be honest Vista was never really that bad and it was designed with higher requirements however you cannot tell me that a computer that runs vista really slow is suitable for online browsing and for document work. My browser with a few tabs ALONE uses 500mb. I use waterfox (64bit build of firefox) and that is just the browser if you do not count the plugin container. Sure it could do day to day work but... a machine like that is for people who browse with a single window and maybe 1-2 tabs. Heck even my nettop (netbook desktop) has a gig of ram and with an atom cpu and it does okay.
I'm utterly surprised that so many of you have mentioned all those red rings but not a single person has said anything about Microsoft's relatively simple return and replacement policy.
Also magnesium refers to a magnesium alloy. Several kinds of alloys make fantastic, durable, and beautiful surfaces. These alloys are also more scratch resistant than aluminum. Anyone else hate how ipods scratch so Damn easily? Yeah me too.
Also magnesium refers to a magnesium alloy. Several kinds of alloys make fantastic, durable, and beautiful surfaces. These alloys are also more scratch resistant than aluminum. Anyone else hate how ipods scratch so Damn easily? Yeah me too.
belardo
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2008
- 3,540
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[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Vista always ran great for me. It wasn't Vista that had all the bugs. There were 2 problems, the lack of ram on many of these machines, and the same problem that plagued XP at first. I had a top notch computer, so I had the ram. I also didn't have old hardware that had to have rewritten drivers, which were often poorly coded.[/citation]
Awww, ain't that SWEET. You had a quad-core with 6~8GB of RAM installed (okay, you didn't specify) - I don't recall you posting your website/services of buying everyone 4~8GB of RAM to make a crappy OS run decently. I missed that.
The memory problem is WELL know, its a MEMORY DEFECT of vista. Vista was BUGGY crap. It didn't shut down, it wouldn't wake up, it ran like shit unless you had 6~8GB of RAM installed. While Windows7 would run fine with 1~4GB. The only reason I need 4 GB of RAM is for 1 single game.
The part I said in ENGLISH: 1 GB of RAM back then was $100 each. The costs of VISTA, to get it running decently meant (A) $400~800 in more memory and (B) A high end CPU to keep the POS from dragging its ass. That is not advancement. So for those of US who are IN the computer business, who sell and support BUSINESS - vista was CRAP. Any contact in the BIZ laughed at the nightmare that was vista. Many of those "vista" sales that MS counts, end up being upgraded to XP. Yep, MS counted every shipped XP Thinkpad as a Vista sale.
Again, IN ENGLISH IF OS (A) XP can do the exact SAME job with a $500 computer that OS (B) vista does with $1500 worth of hardware, then there is a SERIOUS problem.
The driver problem is as much MS as the vendors. MS/Intel did some back-room crap to validate their chipsets for Vista usage. Oh well... it blew up in their face and they got sued.
Awww, ain't that SWEET. You had a quad-core with 6~8GB of RAM installed (okay, you didn't specify) - I don't recall you posting your website/services of buying everyone 4~8GB of RAM to make a crappy OS run decently. I missed that.
The memory problem is WELL know, its a MEMORY DEFECT of vista. Vista was BUGGY crap. It didn't shut down, it wouldn't wake up, it ran like shit unless you had 6~8GB of RAM installed. While Windows7 would run fine with 1~4GB. The only reason I need 4 GB of RAM is for 1 single game.
The part I said in ENGLISH: 1 GB of RAM back then was $100 each. The costs of VISTA, to get it running decently meant (A) $400~800 in more memory and (B) A high end CPU to keep the POS from dragging its ass. That is not advancement. So for those of US who are IN the computer business, who sell and support BUSINESS - vista was CRAP. Any contact in the BIZ laughed at the nightmare that was vista. Many of those "vista" sales that MS counts, end up being upgraded to XP. Yep, MS counted every shipped XP Thinkpad as a Vista sale.
Again, IN ENGLISH IF OS (A) XP can do the exact SAME job with a $500 computer that OS (B) vista does with $1500 worth of hardware, then there is a SERIOUS problem.
The driver problem is as much MS as the vendors. MS/Intel did some back-room crap to validate their chipsets for Vista usage. Oh well... it blew up in their face and they got sued.
chewy1963
Honorable
- May 9, 2012
- 246
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- 10,680
[citation][nom]willard[/nom]To be fair, they only did that so they could gouge their customers with $200 memory upgrades."Yes, we know we only put half as much memory in the system as we should. But here, you can have a reasonable amount for only 400% of the cost of the modules!"[/citation]
And they are still doing that. It's absurd that more than 75% of computers sold with Win 7 x64 on them come with 2 GB of memory. That is the minimum spec for the OS and that's not even including that most of them use part of that memory for integrated graphics!
And they are still doing that. It's absurd that more than 75% of computers sold with Win 7 x64 on them come with 2 GB of memory. That is the minimum spec for the OS and that's not even including that most of them use part of that memory for integrated graphics!
daglesj
Distinguished
- Jul 14, 2007
- 485
- 21
- 18,785
[citation][nom]zippyzion[/nom]Also magnesium refers to a magnesium alloy. Several kinds of alloys make fantastic, durable, and beautiful surfaces. These alloys are also more scratch resistant than aluminum. Anyone else hate how ipods scratch so Damn easily? Yeah me too.[/citation]
Yeah I have a 2005 Toshiba Tablet laptop with a magnesium alloy chassis. It has yet to blind me in a brilliant flash whilst burning through my thighs. ;-) Feels sturdy and light though.
As for the Vista issues. It was purely down to three major points.
1. It needed another 3 months in the oven. It wasn't ready.
2. The Partners (as we are discussing here) loaded up the new Vista machines with crapware designed to run on XP.
3. Hardware Partners (again) were too lazy and complacent to bother releasing proper drivers for it.
If you now install a clean SP2 build of Vista on a PC it runs pretty much as well as Windows 7.
Does for me anyway.
Yeah I have a 2005 Toshiba Tablet laptop with a magnesium alloy chassis. It has yet to blind me in a brilliant flash whilst burning through my thighs. ;-) Feels sturdy and light though.
As for the Vista issues. It was purely down to three major points.
1. It needed another 3 months in the oven. It wasn't ready.
2. The Partners (as we are discussing here) loaded up the new Vista machines with crapware designed to run on XP.
3. Hardware Partners (again) were too lazy and complacent to bother releasing proper drivers for it.
If you now install a clean SP2 build of Vista on a PC it runs pretty much as well as Windows 7.
Does for me anyway.
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]Awww, ain't that SWEET. You had a quad-core with 6~8GB of RAM installed (okay, you didn't specify) - I don't recall you posting your website/services of buying everyone 4~8GB of RAM to make a crappy OS run decently. I missed that. The memory problem is WELL know, its a MEMORY DEFECT of vista. Vista was BUGGY crap. It didn't shut down, it wouldn't wake up, it ran like shit unless you had 6~8GB of RAM installed. While Windows7 would run fine with 1~4GB. The only reason I need 4 GB of RAM is for 1 single game.The part I said in ENGLISH: 1 GB of RAM back then was $100 each. The costs of VISTA, to get it running decently meant (A) $400~800 in more memory and (B) A high end CPU to keep the POS from dragging its ass. That is not advancement. So for those of US who are IN the computer business, who sell and support BUSINESS - vista was CRAP. Any contact in the BIZ laughed at the nightmare that was vista. Many of those "vista" sales that MS counts, end up being upgraded to XP. Yep, MS counted every shipped XP Thinkpad as a Vista sale.Again, IN ENGLISH IF OS (A) XP can do the exact SAME job with a $500 computer that OS (B) vista does with $1500 worth of hardware, then there is a SERIOUS problem.The driver problem is as much MS as the vendors. MS/Intel did some back-room crap to validate their chipsets for Vista usage. Oh well... it blew up in their face and they got sued.[/citation]
I don't know what abortion you bought, but 2GB of ram, ran Vista great for myself and many others. My brother's comp has 1GB with Vista today. It works just fine, until his kids install all kinds of software that runs in the background, of course I just fixed my father's comp that has 2GB of ram on XP, that ran like crap for the same reasons. I removed unneeded software and it works good again.
I don't know what abortion you bought, but 2GB of ram, ran Vista great for myself and many others. My brother's comp has 1GB with Vista today. It works just fine, until his kids install all kinds of software that runs in the background, of course I just fixed my father's comp that has 2GB of ram on XP, that ran like crap for the same reasons. I removed unneeded software and it works good again.
DRosencraft
Distinguished
- Aug 26, 2011
- 743
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- 19,010
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]So why didn't YOU? Or the millions of others who buy tablets? Go to lenovo.com, they have been selling such tablet/notebooks for 10 years. Well?[/citation]
Are you trying to be an a**? For your information I already had a functional laptop at the time. I had no need to replace it. And now that I am looking for a new laptop, my needs have changed. The current crop aren't that appealing. If you knew anything about me, you'd know that a basic requirement I have is that it is at least full-sized, not these ultrabook, netbook, sub 15" deals, and that in general I dislike all tablets. How could you know my preferences or what I'm thinking? Well then don't try to be a smarta** and call out people.
Are you trying to be an a**? For your information I already had a functional laptop at the time. I had no need to replace it. And now that I am looking for a new laptop, my needs have changed. The current crop aren't that appealing. If you knew anything about me, you'd know that a basic requirement I have is that it is at least full-sized, not these ultrabook, netbook, sub 15" deals, and that in general I dislike all tablets. How could you know my preferences or what I'm thinking? Well then don't try to be a smarta** and call out people.
daglesj
Distinguished
- Jul 14, 2007
- 485
- 21
- 18,785
[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]I don't know what abortion you bought, but 2GB of ram, ran Vista great for myself and many others. My brother's comp has 1GB with Vista today. It works just fine, until his kids install all kinds of software that runs in the background, of course I just fixed my father's comp that has 2GB of ram on XP, that ran like crap for the same reasons. I removed unneeded software and it works good again.[/citation]
Yeah I agree, if you cant get a clean install of Vista SP2 to work smooth in this day and age then you really don't know what you are doing and should just find another hobby.
Yeah I agree, if you cant get a clean install of Vista SP2 to work smooth in this day and age then you really don't know what you are doing and should just find another hobby.
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