Report: NSA Has Access to Skype, SkyDrive; MSFT Responds

[mavikt]

Wow! I'm just shocked at how narrow minded some of you are, especially when I know that you're "intelligent" people. Do you really think this is about what people e-mail each other or who's friends with whom on facebook!? That is the tip of the iceberg, actually its not even the iceberg at all...

That's a very good analysis! (ok; stop editing your post...)
Some people just can't seem to think one step ahead.
I can very easily imagine a "Big brother" like system that collects all information; Then some "big data" analysis system chew through things constantly.

Any "secret" or sensitive information not communicated between 4 eyes, is up for grabs and can and will be misused. It doesn't even have to be the complete picture of the "secret" or the sensitive information, just fragments. The "big data" analysis system will put the pieces together.

I know that in some parts of the world, some people are just Paranoid about catching terrorist. And I mean Paranoid.
I have yet to see a terrorist (no offense, I don't like them either), but a system like this is perfect for terrorizing ordinary citizens (Stasi). Free your minds and extrapolate your thoughts a bit!

Interestingly and tellingly (because of his nationality; not his person or deeds) I found this quote (allegedly) by Franklin D Roosevelt:
"If you treat people right they will treat you right... ninety percent of the time."
Those other 10% are because we are humans, and I personally think we should stick to a Tit for tat strategy, and not build a "Big brother" system like NSA wants.

"NSA should burn".

And with that last comment, I'm sure someone at the NSA personally will scan this comment...

- Didn't you see the quotes? I didn't mean it! Stop, what are you doing? Release me! HELP!!!

 

[JPNpower]

Mavikit it probably doesn't help your case that most innocent people who've seen a terrorist were inside the terrorist attack. Once you see one, you're probably dead.

 

[smeezekitty]

JPNpower: You seem to be continually missing the point.

 

[mavikt]

JPNpower, I can't say I've agreed with what you have said so far.
We can agree to disagree; the important thing is to discuss and debate things like this.

I don't know, but you seem a proponent for a "big brother" like system.

Since I'm not a US citizen (nor a native English spoken person) I can only assume your are by the vigor that you defend their policies.
I wonder how big the debate is in the US about such things? Is there any at all?
To me it seems (by media) that the Patriot act and the Dept. of Homeland security trumps about anything, the constitution included.
I'm not sure that NSA really enjoy being in the spotlight at all. The probably feel that they're better of working on their own, undisturbed, unsupervised...Yes, who is supervising the supervisor?

Another danger of systems like these, and it might already be happening, is the act of self censorship.
If you think (or know) that a 3rd, possibly malevolent, part is taking part of what you are saying, you might end up not saying it in the first place. It could and would eventually impede free speech.

Imagine you're talking to your neighbour about the government's recent tax raise, which you aren't happy about. Are you telling him you don't like the tax raise? Do you dare? The government might frown upon people who doesn't see it their way.

 

[hasten]

313 million people in the United States. It would take 100 million NSA agents to monitor every transmission. In a court of law (unless treason, espionage, terrorism, etc.), an officer of the law must be present during the communication, for example on phone taps, to use as evidence. Remove the tinfoil, turn off Rush, and reconvene with reality. Its amazing how radical the internet community is and how they latch on to radical figureheads.

Side note - unless you are plotting against the government, manufacturing meth, or planning a terrorist act I'm certain you are ok. Maturity is learned thru human interaction apparently, not thru internet message boards.

 

[mavikt]

Mavikit it probably doesn't help your case that most innocent people who've seen a terrorist were inside the terrorist attack. Once you see one, you're probably dead.

True! I foresaw your comment.
That's why I wrote no offense in parenthesis afterwards. I don't like terrorists any more than the next guy, they're a menace. And I'm equally afraid of the later part of that sentence, a big brother system.

It's very simple though, through human nature, to understand the mechanics here.
Terrorists are a "simple" concept, tangible, easy to explain, people understand that, pass a law, hunt them down.
A "big brother" system? What is a "big brother" system? It's highly intangible.
How do you explain it so that every citizen can grasp it's implications? A government doesn't necessarily have any desire in doing so either. It could be uncomfortable.

And still there must be a million ways to misuse such a system and create a dystopian society worse than having to worrying about being a victim of a terrorist attack tomorrow.

Of course, I, and I presume you, live in countries where the probability of dying of a bee-sting is higher than being killed in a terrorist attack.
I could understand if people who live in areas where terrorist attack occur daily, would propose such a system (still, against better judgement).

 

[hasten]

Nerrawg, thank you for your complete argument. I'll respond in full later as I'm on my phone right now. For now I'll keep it as "if you assume corruption in this manner, you'd find that you can't trust pretty much any government branch. Borderline paranoid."

As for smeezekitty, go ahead! If you had my digital records, go find anything that's unlawful. I Bet you couldn't as I don't do anything that could be. And if America becomes so corrupt as to convict me on lawful things... Well we're screwed anyway aren't we? NSA or not.

Again I'll flesh out my argument later

^this - particularly the paranoia part.

 

[sna]

Shame on you Microsoft.

this is the ONLY TIME , I am REALLY thinking to switch to MACS forever and never buy a Windows Phone any more.

 

[mavikt]

Incidentally, I heard a piece about the Stasi museum on the radio the other day.
Apparently they still have 170 shelf kilometers (ca 185000 yards) of files from the days east Germany still existed. It is know that material also was destroy before the wall came down.
That was before the digital era. I unknowingly assume that all that material could probably fit onto a normal consumer HDD these days. And how fortunate that people today increasingly communicate digitally.

 

[hasten]

JPNpower:

So I suppose it is ok with you if the government turns completely like big brother and one can be arrested for "thoughtcrime"

Please tell me you are joking. Please.

 

[sna]

313 million people in the United States. It would take 100 million NSA agents to monitor every transmission. In a court of law (unless treason, espionage, terrorism, etc.), an officer of the law must be present during the communication, for example on phone taps, to use as evidence. Remove the tinfoil, turn off Rush, and reconvene with reality. Its amazing how radical the internet community is and how they latch on to radical figureheads.

Side note - unless you are plotting against the government, manufacturing meth, or planning a terrorist act I'm certain you are ok. Maturity is learned thru human interaction apparently, not thru internet message boards.

ooooor

you are a reporter trying to expose the government.

ooooor

a whistle blower ...

oooor

some Scientists whom they want to steal your work

oooor

some Company outside USA they want to steal your secrets

they know what you are doing ...

full stop . and that's against the law.

 

[hasten]

Incidentally, I heard a piece about the Stasi museum on the radio the other day.
Apparently they still have 170 shelf kilometers (ca 185000 yards) of files from the days east Germany still existed. It is know that material also was destroy before the wall came down.
That was before the digital era. I unknowingly assume that all that material could probably fit onto a normal consumer HDD these days. And how fortunate that people today increasingly communicate digitally.

Again. Ok they can store nearly unlimited amounts of information. From the 7 Billion people on earth. Even if you only account for the US you are talking about mountains of useless data. The more taken in, the more garbage. The only effective possible act they could be committing is keyword searches in which the garbage in would still be overwhelming. The intelligence agencies are at worst performing directed espionage on known or highly suspect individuals.

Your Hollywood like reality is still a "few" years out.

 

[hasten]

313 million people in the United States. It would take 100 million NSA agents to monitor every transmission. In a court of law (unless treason, espionage, terrorism, etc.), an officer of the law must be present during the communication, for example on phone taps, to use as evidence. Remove the tinfoil, turn off Rush, and reconvene with reality. Its amazing how radical the internet community is and how they latch on to radical figureheads.

Side note - unless you are plotting against the government, manufacturing meth, or planning a terrorist act I'm certain you are ok. Maturity is learned thru human interaction apparently, not thru internet message boards.

ooooor

you are a reporter trying to expose the government.

ooooor

a whistle blower ...

oooor

some Scientists whom they want to steal your work

oooor

some Company outside USA they want to steal your secrets

they know what you are doing ...

full stop . and that's against the law.

I heard Jesse Ventura has a TV show now...

 

[nerrawg]

313 million people in the United States. It would take 100 million NSA agents to monitor every transmission. In a court of law (unless treason, espionage, terrorism, etc.), an officer of the law must be present during the communication, for example on phone taps, to use as evidence. Remove the tinfoil, turn off Rush, and reconvene with reality. Its amazing how radical the internet community is and how they latch on to radical figureheads.

Side note - unless you are plotting against the government, manufacturing meth, or planning a terrorist act I'm certain you are ok. Maturity is learned thru human interaction apparently, not thru internet message boards.

Again you are totally missing the point here. I could care less what the government knows about most individuals, even though I support their right for privacy. I also was not at all suggesting that the power of the NSA constructs lie with the ability to consistently monitor all behavior of all citizens, that isn't likely in the near future, nor is it at all important.

What is critical, and I mean critical, is that those who sit in positions of power are not monitored by one single agency with no independent oversight.

If you actually bothered to read the above comment in its entirety you would not comment in the way you have. This isn't about private individuals. This is about companies, IP, law, journalism and the key components of democracy and free market enterprise that require privacy to function properly.

If I sat as the NSA head 5 years from now without anything changing, I could if was so inclined commit acts of corruption beyond what has ever before occurred with legal impunity. I could monitor all research companies, slow their patent process and sell their research to a select few companies for patenting before the small start-ups got off the ground. I could follow all the insider information that is critical to market trends and rule the stock market. I would be privy to the inclinations of any judge I wanted to know about and predict judicial outcomes far in advance, the financial benefits of which could make me and my friends the richest in the US. It is these and other breaches of privacy that concern all of us and future, not the monitoring of the 99%'s spotify conversations.

If you haven't realised the necessity for privacy and secrecy than you are ignorant of how democratic systems of free market capitalism work. Privacy and secrecy are integral components of the most important institutions we have ever created.

Universities and R&D departments require privacy and secrecy to obtain patents and funding for research. This is integral to all human progress whether we realise it or not. Stealing this information and patenting it to obstruct competitors happens already small scale, but it is nothing compared to the NSA potential. With the wrong people the system would be brought to a comparative stand still in terms of human innovation

Judges and courts require privacy and secrecy, without which would make them highly vulnerable to extortion and corruption. It would also allow rampant profiteering for those stealing information

Lawyers require privacy and secrecy to protect clients and more importantly vulnerable witnesses

CEOs require privacy and secrecy to have any chance of competing in a market place

Jounalists require privacy and secrecy to protect their source - kiss real journalism goodbye otherwise

the list goes on and on - if you don't understand the fundamental requirement for privacy and secrecy in a society you blatantly don't understand how society works

If you sit in charge of who gets to be private and have secrets and who doesn't, well then you run the show. That is why we have never given this full authority to a single organisation in the history of our democracy - precisely because the founders knew such an act would effectively kill democracy itself-

 

[mavikt]

Your Hollywood like reality is still a "few" years out.

Yes, hopefully it's not over us yet. So it's a very good time to discuss the matter. Rather now than "a few" years out and then some.
I find that in recent years, these kinds of reports and legislative matters facilitating such activities have been increasing.

Progress in a lot of the areas needed to facilitate a "big brother" system is moving rapidly. Processing power (parallel), storage, algorithms and of course the facilitation of the data collection. The term "big data" is an established term that treats managing traditionally unmanageable large data sets. Big data is an area were a lot of research is being done, just because, now we can store more data. So one gives the other...
It makes you wonder, in which direction are "they" moving.

"Speak now or forever hold your peace"

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

MS is full if shit. several months ago, there was an article detailing how MS was going through everyone's SkyDrive account automatically. Yes they were saying they were looking for kiddie porn, but that doesn't mean that (a) that isn't the only thing they were doing (and no we know it wasn't), and (b) your photos aren't in someone else's collection.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/unfortunate-truths-about-child-pornography-and-the-internet-feature/

 

[NewbieTechGodII]

apologies for the typo's in my previous comment...wtf can't we edit things in here?

 

[zedon]

I would like to know all the companies that are cooperating so I can stay way from their products.

 

[acadia11]

Lol, some of you John Gait characters crack me up with your delusional since of self importance. Why in the f would the government waste time or money spying on you? We can't balance a budget but in the governments nefariousness they figured how to tap everyone and to what ends I don't even know. Some of you need to put down the Orsen Wells and realize that no one needs to spy on you, if they really want to know about you, they can just become your friend on Facebook.

 

[JPNpower]

Nerrawg deserves a proper answer.

I apologize as this is typed on my smartphone.

Let me start by saying that your local sheriff can kill you tomorrow with his pistol. He will become a criminal in the process but nobody would stop him.For the same reason anybody can kill you. What is your reason to believe that you won't die tomorrow?

moving on, the IRS recently was in the news recently for corruption remember? what could you do to stop it? Regulation? Big programs like this can't be double checked all the time, and there is a lot of trust that you need to have.

Forthose reasons, I think that corruption is unlikely or unavoidable. Also remember that the whole point of the NSA is to track potential terrorists. Snooping about patents isn't going to be so easy. Like a cop patrolling around jewelry shops exclusively for no reason.

Finally, America has a safeguard against big brother,don't worry. Take you're pick. Republicans, judicial branch, British big brother history, the constitution.

 

[JPNpower]

Nerrawg deserves a proper answer.

I apologize as this is typed on my smartphone.

Let me start by saying that your local sheriff can kill you tomorrow with his pistol. He will become a criminal in the process but nobody would stop him.For the same reason anybody can kill you. What is your reason to believe that you won't die tomorrow?

moving on, the IRS recently was in the news recently for corruption remember? what could you do to stop it? Regulation? Big programs like this can't be double checked all the time, and there is a lot of trust that you need to have.

Forthose reasons, I think that corruption is unlikely or unavoidable. Also remember that the whole point of the NSA is to track potential terrorists. Snooping about patents isn't going to be so easy. Like a cop patrolling around jewelry shops exclusively for no reason.

Finally, America has a safeguard against big brother,don't worry. Take you're pick. Republicans, judicial branch, British big brother history, the constitution.

 

[JPNpower]

I believe this applies to both individuals and businesses

 

[hasten]

313 million people in the United States. It would take 100 million NSA agents to monitor every transmission. In a court of law (unless treason, espionage, terrorism, etc.), an officer of the law must be present during the communication, for example on phone taps, to use as evidence. Remove the tinfoil, turn off Rush, and reconvene with reality. Its amazing how radical the internet community is and how they latch on to radical figureheads.

Side note - unless you are plotting against the government, manufacturing meth, or planning a terrorist act I'm certain you are ok. Maturity is learned thru human interaction apparently, not thru internet message boards.

Again you are totally missing the point here. I could care less what the government knows about most individuals, even though I support their right for privacy. I also was not at all suggesting that the power of the NSA constructs lie with the ability to consistently monitor all behavior of all citizens, that isn't likely in the near future, nor is it at all important.

What is critical, and I mean critical, is that those who sit in positions of power are not monitored by one single agency with no independent oversight.

If you actually bothered to read the above comment in its entirety you would not comment in the way you have. This isn't about private individuals. This is about companies, IP, law, journalism and the key components of democracy and free market enterprise that require privacy to function properly.

If I sat as the NSA head 5 years from now without anything changing, I could if was so inclined commit acts of corruption beyond what has ever before occurred with legal impunity. I could monitor all research companies, slow their patent process and sell their research to a select few companies for patenting before the small start-ups got off the ground. I could follow all the insider information that is critical to market trends and rule the stock market. I would be privy to the inclinations of any judge I wanted to know about and predict judicial outcomes far in advance, the financial benefits of which could make me and my friends the richest in the US. It is these and other breaches of privacy that concern all of us and future, not the monitoring of the 99%'s spotify conversations.

If you haven't realised the necessity for privacy and secrecy than you are ignorant of how democratic systems of free market capitalism work. Privacy and secrecy are integral components of the most important institutions we have ever created.

Universities and R&D departments require privacy and secrecy to obtain patents and funding for research. This is integral to all human progress whether we realise it or not. Stealing this information and patenting it to obstruct competitors happens already small scale, but it is nothing compared to the NSA potential. With the wrong people the system would be brought to a comparative stand still in terms of human innovation

Judges and courts require privacy and secrecy, without which would make them highly vulnerable to extortion and corruption. It would also allow rampant profiteering for those stealing information

Lawyers require privacy and secrecy to protect clients and more importantly vulnerable witnesses

CEOs require privacy and secrecy to have any chance of competing in a market place

Jounalists require privacy and secrecy to protect their source - kiss real journalism goodbye otherwise

the list goes on and on - if you don't understand the fundamental requirement for privacy and secrecy in a society you blatantly don't understand how society works

If you sit in charge of who gets to be private and have secrets and who doesn't, well then you run the show. That is why we have never given this full authority to a single organisation in the history of our democracy - precisely because the founders knew such an act would effectively kill democracy itself-

I've been being a bit extreme in my responses, but you have as well. I am an auditor by career and come from a family of all attorney's (including my in-laws). Though there is concern for privacy in both of the aforementioned practices, none of us fear these recent reports. You are talking about the most extreme circumstances imaginable. If you were in a field such as this you would understand we do not keep our data/information on publically accessible networks. It would be insanely silly for any of our firms to use Skype, live.com, Skydrive, or anything similar with confidential information.

You are being sensationalist and it does not help anyone to act in a such a way. There is no evidence that any government agency is hacking private networks, which is where any of the information you are so concerned of being compromised is stored. Journalists, engineers, lawyers, accountants, all of us don't load critical data into social networks.

 

[DjEaZy]

... may be there is a opportunity for a class action lawsuit? the other thing would be... who gonna dare it...?!... because there might be some consequences of that action...

 

[brandonl2davis]

uptil I saw the receipt for $5785, I didn't believe that...my... father in law could actualey receiving money in there spare time on their apple laptop.. there best friend has been doing this 4 only about 22 months and at present paid for the loans on there apartment and bought a top of the range GMC. go to,... www.work25.coℳ