http://www.techspot.com/news/50807-self-assembling-block-copolymers-could-bring-fivefold-storage-boost.html
Seems to be the same thing and Toms was late, but I am not sure.
Seems to be the same thing and Toms was late, but I am not sure.
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- May 18, 2007
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[citation][nom]SteelCity1981[/nom]how about instead of prolonging HDD's life find better methods to store a large amount of infomation on an SSD to make SSD's more affordable.[/citation]
There is no miracle to reducing SSD's cost since their cost is directly bound to lithography feature size. If you want cheaper SSDs, you need cheaper higher-density processes.
Each new process takes years and billions of dollars to get from the labs into production. So expensive that most lithography equipment manufacturers and semiconductor manufacturers including Intel outsource large chunks of their lithography process research to ASML.
There is no miracle to reducing SSD's cost since their cost is directly bound to lithography feature size. If you want cheaper SSDs, you need cheaper higher-density processes.
Each new process takes years and billions of dollars to get from the labs into production. So expensive that most lithography equipment manufacturers and semiconductor manufacturers including Intel outsource large chunks of their lithography process research to ASML.
[citation][nom]CaptainTom[/nom]Nobody is doing that. Right now SSD's cost more, hold FARRRRR less data, and would require a lot of file transferring (A huge headache). In 1-2 years they will probably hold triple the info and cost a fourth of the price. Then they will be worth it to SWITCH. If I was building brand new in a few months I would probably get one though, but I am not and I am content with what I have. I am glad you are too.[/citation]
That's why you use SSDs for the OS and important programs/files, and use the HDD for other stuff.
That's why you use SSDs for the OS and important programs/files, and use the HDD for other stuff.
CaptainTom
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SteelCity1981
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[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]Check back in five years. It's like holding off on upgrading your computer since 2007 because you're waiting for DDR3 RAM's prices to go down.Because for some tasks, cheap capacity is more important than speed.[/citation]
you do realize price per capacity is not as wide as it used to be with SSD's right?
you do realize price per capacity is not as wide as it used to be with SSD's right?
So, we have 4TB HD's now....... x 5 gives us 20TB on a drive.......... I can dig that. And before all the SSD people chime in........ How much does a 1TB SSD cost right now..... you could buy a house for the cost of a 5TB SSD and you could live like a king for the cost of a 20 TB SSD right now.
IQ11110002
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- Jul 28, 2009
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Bring it on!
There is never enough speed/storage in my pc wether it's hard drives/graphics cards/internet speed etc etc, Until I see the day of real life graphics on my pc screen I will continue to spend money on it, Simple as that.
Some of you commenting probably weren't even born to remember 14.4 baud modems and BBS's, How great it was just moving up to 28.8 modem then 56k and so on. I imagine as 4k resolution becomes mainstream in several years time your current top of the range 4TB hdd will not cut it. Just 1 photo on my Canon DSLR can be over 120mb each on the highest setting, Just 10 photos and there is 1gb gone.
There is never enough speed/storage in my pc wether it's hard drives/graphics cards/internet speed etc etc, Until I see the day of real life graphics on my pc screen I will continue to spend money on it, Simple as that.
Some of you commenting probably weren't even born to remember 14.4 baud modems and BBS's, How great it was just moving up to 28.8 modem then 56k and so on. I imagine as 4k resolution becomes mainstream in several years time your current top of the range 4TB hdd will not cut it. Just 1 photo on my Canon DSLR can be over 120mb each on the highest setting, Just 10 photos and there is 1gb gone.
BoredErica
Distinguished
- Aug 17, 2007
- 159
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[citation][nom]CaptainTom[/nom]Really? That's awesome. Thanks for backing me up![/citation]
Did you just quote the same comment twice, once saying how wrong it is, once thanking him for backing you up?
Did you just quote the same comment twice, once saying how wrong it is, once thanking him for backing you up?
[citation][nom]CaptainTom[/nom]See. I still can't justify an SSD. My PC boots up in 40 seconds, and my games load in 5 seconds. Why do I need more than that now? I will get an SSD when 1 TB is $100. But by then I would probably require at least 2 TB...[/citation]
its more important to have a dedicated boot drive than a ssd, but here... before i moved to a 120gb ssd as a boot only drive, my hdd (1.5tb) was getting hammered so hard that it would regulary go into the sub mb read speed.
some of why it did that was probably me using my computer with 3gb of ram like it had 16gb... but still, fact is that me moveing to an ssd, my god... just for 1 day, look at how much and often you use your hdd, because boot alone is one thing, but there are so many other aspects that get slowed down because of hdd accesses.
moving boot away from the everything else hdd, frees up ALOT of over head and an over all speed increase.
[citation][nom]Pherule[/nom]See. I just can't justify upgrading from my old 486. It runs MS Word 97 just fine.Face it, you need an SSD. Anything less than instant is not good enough. Or at least that will be the case within a few years.[/citation]
you dont need an ssd, but you do kind of need a dedicated boot drive, weather its ssd or not.
[citation][nom]danwat1234[/nom]Try installing 50 Windows updates, copying 100GB of data of small files to your drive, installing a new version of Matlab, running a virus scan or running bittorrent on a 100Mb/s internet connection while playing games. Let me know how long it takes you/how smoothly it runs. Or run out of memory and watch you pitiful 1TB hard drive grind away while your computer is unusable. SSDs crunch through low memory situations pretty well. They kick butt and they can handle 100s of Terabytes of writes.http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] &post#5182And my 4 year old Core 2 Duo (3GHZ) laptop with a 3 year old SSD boots up in 18 seconds, 8 seconds if you start after POST. http://youtu.be/lyTJ-4dEqsYI have a second internal laptop drive for storage.[/citation]
100gb of small files... um... most of us cant even consider a 256gb drive for a boot...
but here is the thing, when you move boot off a hdd, you suddenly get worlds better preformance out of those old drives, to the point that you dont mind the wait, because it gets done without the boot being touched, meaning no speed problems.
[citation][nom]jfro63[/nom]Needs to be a much easier and robust method of transferring the system to the SSD 1st, then I'll add one......[/citation]
you do a fresh install... or is that not normal?
[citation][nom]SteelCity1981[/nom]how about instead of prolonging HDD's life find better methods to store a large amount of infomation on an SSD to make SSD's more affordable.[/citation]
cant, the only thing that will make an ssd cheaper is if the cost to make a waffer goes down, or if when we make bigger waffers the price to make it doesn't go up. ssds are tied to about 50 grand a waffer, what i was told it costs to make one from beginning to end.
so that is the base minimum cost of ssd, now devide that by how big an ssd chip is (not the black chip, the silicon inside) and you get a rough estimate of how much an ssd costs.
[citation][nom]CaptainTom[/nom]Nobody is doing that. Right now SSD's cost more, hold FARRRRR less data, and would require a lot of file transferring (A huge headache). In 1-2 years they will probably hold triple the info and cost a fourth of the price. Then they will be worth it to SWITCH. If I was building brand new in a few months I would probably get one though, but I am not and I am content with what I have. I am glad you are too.[/citation]
funny, i never have to move files around... programs go on the ssd, storage goes on my hdd,
[citation][nom]tarzan2001[/nom]Remember the days when people would just buy another hard drive and set it to "slave" when they needed more storage space?[/citation]
till recently i had 5hdds and 1 ssd,
now i have 1ssd and 4hdds, once i move the files, 1hdd 1ssd.
got to love 4tb drives.
its more important to have a dedicated boot drive than a ssd, but here... before i moved to a 120gb ssd as a boot only drive, my hdd (1.5tb) was getting hammered so hard that it would regulary go into the sub mb read speed.
some of why it did that was probably me using my computer with 3gb of ram like it had 16gb... but still, fact is that me moveing to an ssd, my god... just for 1 day, look at how much and often you use your hdd, because boot alone is one thing, but there are so many other aspects that get slowed down because of hdd accesses.
moving boot away from the everything else hdd, frees up ALOT of over head and an over all speed increase.
[citation][nom]Pherule[/nom]See. I just can't justify upgrading from my old 486. It runs MS Word 97 just fine.Face it, you need an SSD. Anything less than instant is not good enough. Or at least that will be the case within a few years.[/citation]
you dont need an ssd, but you do kind of need a dedicated boot drive, weather its ssd or not.
[citation][nom]danwat1234[/nom]Try installing 50 Windows updates, copying 100GB of data of small files to your drive, installing a new version of Matlab, running a virus scan or running bittorrent on a 100Mb/s internet connection while playing games. Let me know how long it takes you/how smoothly it runs. Or run out of memory and watch you pitiful 1TB hard drive grind away while your computer is unusable. SSDs crunch through low memory situations pretty well. They kick butt and they can handle 100s of Terabytes of writes.http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] &post#5182And my 4 year old Core 2 Duo (3GHZ) laptop with a 3 year old SSD boots up in 18 seconds, 8 seconds if you start after POST. http://youtu.be/lyTJ-4dEqsYI have a second internal laptop drive for storage.[/citation]
100gb of small files... um... most of us cant even consider a 256gb drive for a boot...
but here is the thing, when you move boot off a hdd, you suddenly get worlds better preformance out of those old drives, to the point that you dont mind the wait, because it gets done without the boot being touched, meaning no speed problems.
[citation][nom]jfro63[/nom]Needs to be a much easier and robust method of transferring the system to the SSD 1st, then I'll add one......[/citation]
you do a fresh install... or is that not normal?
[citation][nom]SteelCity1981[/nom]how about instead of prolonging HDD's life find better methods to store a large amount of infomation on an SSD to make SSD's more affordable.[/citation]
cant, the only thing that will make an ssd cheaper is if the cost to make a waffer goes down, or if when we make bigger waffers the price to make it doesn't go up. ssds are tied to about 50 grand a waffer, what i was told it costs to make one from beginning to end.
so that is the base minimum cost of ssd, now devide that by how big an ssd chip is (not the black chip, the silicon inside) and you get a rough estimate of how much an ssd costs.
[citation][nom]CaptainTom[/nom]Nobody is doing that. Right now SSD's cost more, hold FARRRRR less data, and would require a lot of file transferring (A huge headache). In 1-2 years they will probably hold triple the info and cost a fourth of the price. Then they will be worth it to SWITCH. If I was building brand new in a few months I would probably get one though, but I am not and I am content with what I have. I am glad you are too.[/citation]
funny, i never have to move files around... programs go on the ssd, storage goes on my hdd,
[citation][nom]tarzan2001[/nom]Remember the days when people would just buy another hard drive and set it to "slave" when they needed more storage space?[/citation]
till recently i had 5hdds and 1 ssd,
now i have 1ssd and 4hdds, once i move the files, 1hdd 1ssd.
got to love 4tb drives.
SteelCity1981
Distinguished
- Sep 16, 2010
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you're talking waffer i'm talking die space itself by using diff methods to get more space per module.
[citation][nom]SteelCity1981[/nom]you're talking waffer i'm talking die space itself by using diff methods to get more space per module.[/citation]
like different ways to compress it? or different ways to actually make the storage.
nm will make it cheaper as we get smaller and the increased size will offset the negatives of lesser write cycles (till we figure out how to make a consumer version of an easy bake oven for it)
aside from that, if we figure out how to stack storage on top of each other and it doesn't cost more than a new waffer, higher density chips will get cheaper.
like different ways to compress it? or different ways to actually make the storage.
nm will make it cheaper as we get smaller and the increased size will offset the negatives of lesser write cycles (till we figure out how to make a consumer version of an easy bake oven for it)
aside from that, if we figure out how to stack storage on top of each other and it doesn't cost more than a new waffer, higher density chips will get cheaper.
guardianangel42
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- Jan 18, 2010
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[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]See. I still can't justify using air service to transport extremely perishable products. Shipping them over water is acceptable, even if my factory's production grinds to a halt while waiting for such products.[/citation]
Seriously guys? Seriously?
This is how you spend your time? Mocking a guy for his personal opinion? An opinion that makes perfect sense and is stated as nothing other than one guy's opinion, even if you have applications that cause you to choose differently?
While you're at it why don't you harp on me because I refuse to own a black car in a desert even though in most other locations black makes sense and is more aesthetically striking.
Or you could mock me for refusing to use a triple monitor gaming setup because I refuse to pay hundreds of extra dollars just to use my peripheral vision.
Grow up people. Some people don't need an SSD. It may be faster, even noticeably so, but some people flat out don't need one.
Some people even get by completely on their snazzy new Atom-based netbooks and have no need for the things guys like us use every day. Some people are perfectly fine with dual core processors running at 1.6Ghz.
Believe it or not, other people exist on this planet and sometimes those other people have different needs than us.
Seriously guys? Seriously?
This is how you spend your time? Mocking a guy for his personal opinion? An opinion that makes perfect sense and is stated as nothing other than one guy's opinion, even if you have applications that cause you to choose differently?
While you're at it why don't you harp on me because I refuse to own a black car in a desert even though in most other locations black makes sense and is more aesthetically striking.
Or you could mock me for refusing to use a triple monitor gaming setup because I refuse to pay hundreds of extra dollars just to use my peripheral vision.
Grow up people. Some people don't need an SSD. It may be faster, even noticeably so, but some people flat out don't need one.
Some people even get by completely on their snazzy new Atom-based netbooks and have no need for the things guys like us use every day. Some people are perfectly fine with dual core processors running at 1.6Ghz.
Believe it or not, other people exist on this planet and sometimes those other people have different needs than us.
Reading this I cannot help but being excited about the new Velociraptor that WD hopefully will make and release next year, or the new Barracuda from Seagate (if there is one in the works). I just love the old HDD-technology, and the progression we are still seeing after all these years. 
[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]Short-sighted people: "No need for more HDD capacity other than pornography."Back in 2000's: "No need for more than 32 GB of HDD capacity..."[/citation] I am running out of HDD space - only talking perhaps four or five terabytes worth of storage at the moment, but I don't like how it has to be spread across so many drives. Makes backups a nightmare. Would be nice to have a few 10TB drives which could store everything and also keep a copy or two safe.
uglynerdman
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- Mar 8, 2012
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i have a whole hdd dedicated just for steam games. i like hd tech, i dont think its going anywhere and this news brings me new hope for more storage at affordable prices.
rebel1280
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- May 7, 2011
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Well, imho, the more capacity any HD holds, the more Raid 1 becomes a necessity. Higher power forbid that it happens to someone like your mom! Happened to my mom on of my visits, luckily i was able to recover after a few restarts. But you better believe i took the data off and got two new HDs and setup a raid. "Hey son, what happened to that new HD you put in my computer that had all my photos and videos?" ...... cringe
didgetmaster
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- Jan 27, 2012
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Not sure how this all turned into a HDD vs SSD food fight. My opinion - SSDs are great for certain conditions, but they have a long way to go before they come close to replacing all that HDD space. Just too expensive on the $/GB meter for now.
As far as this new discovery...if it turns into real products in a reasonable timeframe then this is exciting news. If it costs way too much to implement or will take 10 years to perfect, then really nothing to see here.
Anything that will reliably squeeze more bits on the same surface area is great for the HDD market. We get higher capacity devices at the same form factor or the same capacity in a smaller unit all while increasing transfer rates since you get more bits for every platter rotation.
While I don't have to re-partition my disk all the time, use compression tools, or do other tricks like I used to do because of low disk space; I am always happy to have lots of disk space available.
Now if we can just get better methods to really manage all that data that we currently have...
As far as this new discovery...if it turns into real products in a reasonable timeframe then this is exciting news. If it costs way too much to implement or will take 10 years to perfect, then really nothing to see here.
Anything that will reliably squeeze more bits on the same surface area is great for the HDD market. We get higher capacity devices at the same form factor or the same capacity in a smaller unit all while increasing transfer rates since you get more bits for every platter rotation.
While I don't have to re-partition my disk all the time, use compression tools, or do other tricks like I used to do because of low disk space; I am always happy to have lots of disk space available.
Now if we can just get better methods to really manage all that data that we currently have...
milktea
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- Dec 16, 2009
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Advantages of SSD...
1. Fast (small & large file writes, max IOPs)
2. Low power (idle less than 0.2W load less than 5W)
3. Quiet (dead silent)
4. Runs cool to touch (doesn't heat up)
5. No moving parts (no need to wait for any spin ups, saves you 3-5 seconds)
Disadvantage of SSD...
1. Price per storage unit
So you can be the judge on what is suitable for you computing needs.
But I can tell you I'm one happy SSD owner.
1. Fast (small & large file writes, max IOPs)
2. Low power (idle less than 0.2W load less than 5W)
3. Quiet (dead silent)
4. Runs cool to touch (doesn't heat up)
5. No moving parts (no need to wait for any spin ups, saves you 3-5 seconds)
Disadvantage of SSD...
1. Price per storage unit
So you can be the judge on what is suitable for you computing needs.
But I can tell you I'm one happy SSD owner.
jaber2
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- Jan 21, 2012
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I got me a 60GB SSD a while back, for my needs it works well, I don't think I've ever want to buy anything other than SSD for my OS, for my data I don't care if its a USB flash, for my games I can use a lower cost SATA. I remember buying a 120MB IDE hard drive for $250 at a pc marketplace, a year later got me a 250MB IDE for the same price as 120MB. I will always buy what ever works best for my needs, so weather you like SSD or SATA its all about the best you can afford for what you need.
WyomingKnott
Legenda in Aeternum
- Aug 29, 2006
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[citation][nom]Hellbound[/nom]I remember a guy telling me back in the late 90's that people wouldn't need more than 5gb of space..[/citation]
Back in the late 90's, people didn't.
Yes, I know you meant that he was predicting the future, but my point is that people seem to expect the future to resemble the present, or the present plus a reasonable and probably linear growth rate.
Back in the late 90's, people didn't.
Yes, I know you meant that he was predicting the future, but my point is that people seem to expect the future to resemble the present, or the present plus a reasonable and probably linear growth rate.
[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]Short-sighted people: "No need for more HDD capacity other than pornography."Back in 2000's: "No need for more than 32 GB of HDD capacity..."[/citation]
how are you enjoying your floppy disks and zip drives?
do you even have a dvd burner yet?
you should really try out a non ocz SSD, it's nice to have something that works faster than a snails pace.
sure they are expensive, so was my 250GB HDD @$300 when everybody else was on 20-40GB drives sure SSD isn't 3TB yet, it's gone from 8GB to 512GB in a few years, more than quintuple the time it's taken HDD to get half as much in twice as long.
those won't be factors for long and once they get the reliability realitivly as good, nobody's going to have reason to stick with HDD, just like floppy and zip disks.
how are you enjoying your floppy disks and zip drives?
do you even have a dvd burner yet?
you should really try out a non ocz SSD, it's nice to have something that works faster than a snails pace.
sure they are expensive, so was my 250GB HDD @$300 when everybody else was on 20-40GB drives sure SSD isn't 3TB yet, it's gone from 8GB to 512GB in a few years, more than quintuple the time it's taken HDD to get half as much in twice as long.
those won't be factors for long and once they get the reliability realitivly as good, nobody's going to have reason to stick with HDD, just like floppy and zip disks.
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