Revenge of the Sith Review - Short Version

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Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>>Putting R2 and 3P0 in the prequels was among some of the stupidest things
>>that Lucas did, and given the overall shittiness of Eps 1&2, that's saying
>>a lot.
>
>Ok, so I saw the movie today, and that explains why 3P0 doesn't remember
>anything....
>
>But I stand by my second paragraph!

Actually, I seem to recall reading somewhere that the droids were
originally supposed to be in all 9 movies. Unfortunately, we may
never know for sure.



Ed Chauvin IV

--
DISCLAIMER : WARNING: RULE # 196 is X-rated in that to calculate L,
use X = [(C2/10)^2], and RULE # 193 which is NOT meant to be read by
kids, since RULE # 187 EXPLAINS homosexuality mathematically, using
modifier G @ 11.

"I always feel left out when someone *else* gets killfiled."
--Terry Austin

 

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Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> you up next, work it out now.

>
>
>Presto wrote:
>> GUSH!!!
>
>You are gushing blood?
>
>Why doesn't R2-D2 recognize Yoda if he knew him in the past and wasn't
>mindwiped?
>

For that matter, why doesn't C-3PO mention knowing Yoda when Luke
eventually talks about his training?

Why doesn't R2-D2 fly out of the water on Dagobah?

Why does Luke Skywalker look so normal with parents that look like
that?

Why did light sabers suddenly become heavier so that they require 2
hands to wield?

Why do Sith only make red light sabers?

Why do Jedi (except for Grand Master Shaft) only make green or blue
light sabers?

Did the Empire switch to Detroit for ship design, so that their
creations of 20 years ago run circles around the newer models?

Or was it the standard "lowest bid wins" government contracts?

Is the increasing size of the Empire's wedge-shaped ships a sign of
the Emperor's insecurity?

Why would the Empire switch to Storm Troopers when Clone Troopers
actually hit things they aim their weapons at?

Isn't the Empire a perfect example of restriction of technology and
gun control?

And why would anyone use a "modern" weapon when the ones that are 20+
years old kick so much more ass?

Bill
--
By working faithfully eight hours a day, you may eventually
get to be boss and work twelve hours a day. - Robert Frost

 

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cjdc@nwlxgen02.jf.intel.com (Chris Christian) you up next, work it out
now.

>Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>>How does 3P0 not make the connection with "The Maker" and Vader? Why
>>wouldn't he recognize Tatooine since that is where he was created and spent
>>his first 10 years (WORKING ON THE SAME FARM LUKE BRINGS HIM TO)?
>
>Did you miss Senator Bail Organa ordering C3PO's mind-wiped at
>the end when he gave the droids to Wedge Antilles' father?
>

I did, because the sound cut out at the theatre from the beginning of
the birth of the twins until after Obi-Wan passes Luke over to his
Aunt.

To say that the entire audience of the midnight screening was pissed
was an understatement.

To say that we got even pissier when requests to replay the last 10
minutes (even though there was no showing for another 8 hours) or a
reduced price on a ticket for another showing is even more of an
understatement.

Bill
--
By working faithfully eight hours a day, you may eventually
get to be boss and work twelve hours a day. - Robert Frost

 

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Pffft. Who has to go to the theater to see a movie anymore? Chances are
you'll be able to find it on P2P or Bittorrent either before or when
the movie comes out.


Ralph Glatt

Member, Old Farts Club

 

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On Fri, 20 May 2005 19:27:31 GMT, Matt Frisch
<matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrotC😀RIVE_E

>
>How does 3P0 not make the connection with "The Maker" and Vader? Why
>wouldn't he recognize Tatooine since that is where he was created and spent
>his first 10 years (WORKING ON THE SAME FARM LUKE BRINGS HIM TO)?

Uhm....because they explicitly have his memory erased at the end of
Sith?


*----------------------------------------------------*
Evolution doesn't take prisoners:Lizard
"I've heard of this thing men call 'empathy', but I've never
once been afflicted with it, thanks the Gods." Bruno The Bandit
http://www.mrlizard.com

 

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Werebat wrote:
> Presto wrote:
> > GUSH!!!
>
> You are gushing blood?
>
> Why doesn't R2-D2 recognize Yoda if he knew him in the past and
wasn't
> mindwiped?

I forget: does R2 actually have a scene with Yoda in the prequels?

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque

 

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Ed Chauvin IV wrote:

>
> Hopefully, Lucas will write some scripts, die of a massive brain
> embolism and then when we have the technology to bring back Kubrick,
> he'll do 7-9. I'd be willing to wait the hundred years or so it would
> take Kubrick to get it done.

KUBRICK? Dear GOD no. I have seen nothing to indicate he'd have the
faintest idea of how to do a kickass space opera. James Cameron,
possibly. Peter Jackson or Sam Raimi, yes. But Kubrick? His main foray
into SF, 2001, was sluggish and opaque; even if that was his intent,
it shows precisely the wrong mindset for doing a Star Wars movie. It'd
be almost as bad as getting a comedy director in the seat.


--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

 

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Suddenly, Sea Wasp, drunk as a lemur, stumbled out of the darkness and
exclaimed:

> KUBRICK? Dear GOD no. I have seen nothing to indicate he'd have the
> faintest idea of how to do a kickass space opera. James Cameron,
> possibly. Peter Jackson or Sam Raimi, yes. But Kubrick? His main foray
> into SF, 2001, was sluggish and opaque; even if that was his intent,
> it shows precisely the wrong mindset for doing a Star Wars movie. It'd
> be almost as bad as getting a comedy director in the seat.
>

"Star Wars Episode 7: The Revenge of the Windoo" - A Spike Lee Joint

--
Billy Yank

Quinn: "I'm saying it's us, or them."
Murphy: "Well I choose them."
Q: "That's NOT an option!"
M: "Then you shouldn't have framed it as one."
-Sealab 2021

Billy Yank's Baldur's Gate Photo Portraits
http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2xvw6/

 

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On Sat, 21 May 2005 03:14:09 -0400, Ed Chauvin IV wrote:

> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>>
>>And oh yea...wtf is up with the Death Star apparently taking more than 20
>>years to actually build? It looks about 10% done at the end of the movie,
>>but it doesn't get finished until 1/3rd of the way through Ep 4...huh?
>
> It's a government job and the early completion bonus was probably not
> good enough to pay for the necessary overtime.

The last Nimitz class carrier, the George H.W. Bush, is currently under
construction and has been for a couple of years.

The expected completion date is in 2008.


The Death Star is much larger.

--
Phoenix

 

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In article <s0ts81d110ilrljdubpguabtrco9t18qh7@4ax.com>,
Lizard <lizard@mrlizard.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 20 May 2005 19:27:31 GMT, Matt Frisch
> <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrotC😀RIVE_E
>
> >
> >How does 3P0 not make the connection with "The Maker" and Vader? Why
> >wouldn't he recognize Tatooine since that is where he was created and spent
> >his first 10 years (WORKING ON THE SAME FARM LUKE BRINGS HIM TO)?
>
> Uhm....because they explicitly have his memory erased at the end of
> Sith?

You will notice if you watch SW:ANH again that R2D2s actions clearly
show that he knows his way around Tatooine very well indeed. Whereas
C3P0 is toddling along behind going "What do you mean you know where you
are going? We've never been here before!".

R2D2 is an interesting little guy. He plays his cards close to his
chest.

--
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.

 

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On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:40:10 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
scribed into the ether:

>On Sat, 21 May 2005 03:14:09 -0400, Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>
>> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>>>
>>>And oh yea...wtf is up with the Death Star apparently taking more than 20
>>>years to actually build? It looks about 10% done at the end of the movie,
>>>but it doesn't get finished until 1/3rd of the way through Ep 4...huh?
>>
>> It's a government job and the early completion bonus was probably not
>> good enough to pay for the necessary overtime.
>
> The last Nimitz class carrier, the George H.W. Bush, is currently under
>construction and has been for a couple of years.
>
> The expected completion date is in 2008.
>
> The Death Star is much larger.

Expain the speedy construction time of the second death star then. Further,
if Death Star 1 is ~10% done at the end of Episode 3, and hadn't even
started construction as of the end of Episode 2, why would it take a
further 20-odd years?

Having an entire galaxy from which to draw both resources and manpower
would tend to accelerate the build speed. If the government could afford a
few more material contractors and to triple the workforce on that carrier,
it would get done a lot sooner. It isn't like the completion date is
required by outside forces. The only thing that stops the government from
doing anything is money or politics. Neither of which is a problem for the
emperor.

 

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In article <t150915k51sm0ijtegkpk0rj907g6vjtmn@4ax.com>,
Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:40:10 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
> scribed into the ether:
>
> >On Sat, 21 May 2005 03:14:09 -0400, Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
> >
> >> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
> >>>
> >>>And oh yea...wtf is up with the Death Star apparently taking more than 20
> >>>years to actually build? It looks about 10% done at the end of the movie,
> >>>but it doesn't get finished until 1/3rd of the way through Ep 4...huh?
> >>
> >> It's a government job and the early completion bonus was probably not
> >> good enough to pay for the necessary overtime.
> >
> > The last Nimitz class carrier, the George H.W. Bush, is currently under
> >construction and has been for a couple of years.
> >
> > The expected completion date is in 2008.
> >
> > The Death Star is much larger.
>
> Expain the speedy construction time of the second death star then. Further,
> if Death Star 1 is ~10% done at the end of Episode 3, and hadn't even
> started construction as of the end of Episode 2, why would it take a
> further 20-odd years?
>
> Having an entire galaxy from which to draw both resources and manpower
> would tend to accelerate the build speed. If the government could afford a
> few more material contractors and to triple the workforce on that carrier,
> it would get done a lot sooner. It isn't like the completion date is
> required by outside forces. The only thing that stops the government from
> doing anything is money or politics. Neither of which is a problem for the
> emperor.

I just saw it, but I've already forgotten. Isn't that scene the last one
of the movie? I was assuming - given the new Star Destroyer model
(without the red stripe like we saw in the beginning), the newer
TIE-like fighters, the "new" familiar Empire uniforms - that when we see
the Death Star under construction, a significant amount of time has
already passed. Of course, it still doesn't explain Obi-Wan's rapid
decline into old age. Unless he comes from a short-lived race.

 

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Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>Expain the speedy construction time of the second death star then. Further,
>if Death Star 1 is ~10% done at the end of Episode 3, and hadn't even
>started construction as of the end of Episode 2, why would it take a
>further 20-odd years?

Judging by your estimate of the percentage of the death star was
complete, I'll infer that you've never been directly involved in any
serious construction projects. Nor do you actually have any idea what
you're talking about.



Ed Chauvin IV

--
DISCLAIMER : WARNING: RULE # 196 is X-rated in that to calculate L,
use X = [(C2/10)^2], and RULE # 193 which is NOT meant to be read by
kids, since RULE # 187 EXPLAINS homosexuality mathematically, using
modifier G @ 11.

"I always feel left out when someone *else* gets killfiled."
--Terry Austin

 

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On Sun, 22 May 2005 05:12:58 GMT, Matt Frisch
<matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:40:10 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
>scribed into the ether:
>
>>On Sat, 21 May 2005 03:14:09 -0400, Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>>
>>> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>>>>
>>>>And oh yea...wtf is up with the Death Star apparently taking more than 20
>>>>years to actually build? It looks about 10% done at the end of the movie,
>>>>but it doesn't get finished until 1/3rd of the way through Ep 4...huh?
>>>
>>> It's a government job and the early completion bonus was probably not
>>> good enough to pay for the necessary overtime.
>>
>> The last Nimitz class carrier, the George H.W. Bush, is currently under
>>construction and has been for a couple of years.
>>
>> The expected completion date is in 2008.
>>
>> The Death Star is much larger.
>
>Expain the speedy construction time of the second death star then.

Not especially difficult. It was only half constructed when it was
destroyed. Sure it had a functional superlaser, but it didn't have
shields, hyperdrive, quad lasers etc. Heck it was so unfinished you
could fly ships through the partially completed superstructure.

Further,
>if Death Star 1 is ~10% done at the end of Episode 3, and hadn't even
>started construction as of the end of Episode 2, why would it take a
>further 20-odd years?
>
>Having an entire galaxy from which to draw both resources and manpower
>would tend to accelerate the build speed. If the government could afford a
>few more material contractors and to triple the workforce on that carrier,
>it would get done a lot sooner. It isn't like the completion date is
>required by outside forces. The only thing that stops the government from
>doing anything is money or politics. Neither of which is a problem for the
>emperor.

And did I mention, when he was building the first DS, the Imperial
Senate hadn't yet been disbanded and he was trying to build it in
secret while with the second one he wanted the rebels to find out?

 

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Henry Chen <mr_o_chen@hotmail.com> you up next, work it out now.

>Of course, it still doesn't explain Obi-Wan's rapid
>decline into old age. Unless he comes from a short-lived race.

Or maybe he thinks that he could have stopped something bad from
happening by actually making sure a job WAS completed instead of just
assuming it was...

Stress ages many people before time can.

Bill
--
By working faithfully eight hours a day, you may eventually
get to be boss and work twelve hours a day. - Robert Frost

 

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Ed Chauvin IV wrote:

> Hopefully, Lucas will write some scripts, die of a massive brain
> embolism and then when we have the technology to bring back Kubrick,
> he'll do 7-9. I'd be willing to wait the hundred years or so it would
> take Kubrick to get it done.

Awwww.... Hell... comprehending a Kubrick flick is like trying to
explain the objects in a Salvador Dali painting, to a blind
person. Kubrick was a master who cinematically weaved layer upon
layer into a story making it difficult for viewers to intrepret
the characters' various motives and goals. That, with the
additional fact various characters in Kubrick films worked at
cross purposes even when they were allies or comrades created a
tapestry of wonder and delight that could only be duplicated in
Star Wars if the first six scripts (and resulting films)were
burned, and the entire story was rewritten from scratch by
Kubrick's clone... of course.

That being said, is there anyone here who would care to write an
excerpt for a "Kubrick" Star Wars spec script? It would be a good
read, and a better flame war! At least in this NG.

What about Ridley Scott? He'd provide an interestiong take, and
some additional depth into 7-9 as well.

Re,
Dirk

 

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Sea Wasp wrote:

> KUBRICK? Dear GOD no. I have seen nothing to indicate he'd have the
> faintest idea of how to do a kickass space opera. James Cameron,
> possibly. Peter Jackson or Sam Raimi, yes. But Kubrick? His main foray
> into SF, 2001, was sluggish and opaque; even if that was his intent, it
> shows precisely the wrong mindset for doing a Star Wars movie. It'd be
> almost as bad as getting a comedy director in the seat.

Wow. I can't believe you of all people missed the most important
story arc of 2001. It was clear as the blue sky.

Re,
Dirk

 

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On Sun, 22 May 2005 05:12:58 +0000, Matt Frisch wrote:

> On Sun, 22 May 2005 00:40:10 -0400, Rick Pikul <rwpikul@sympatico.ca>
> scribed into the ether:
>
>>On Sat, 21 May 2005 03:14:09 -0400, Ed Chauvin IV wrote:
>>
>>> Mere moments before death, Matt Frisch hastily scrawled:
>>>>
>>>>And oh yea...wtf is up with the Death Star apparently taking more than 20
>>>>years to actually build? It looks about 10% done at the end of the movie,
>>>>but it doesn't get finished until 1/3rd of the way through Ep 4...huh?
>>>
>>> It's a government job and the early completion bonus was probably not
>>> good enough to pay for the necessary overtime.
>>
>> The last Nimitz class carrier, the George H.W. Bush, is currently under
>>construction and has been for a couple of years.
>>
>> The expected completion date is in 2008.
>>
>> The Death Star is much larger.
>
> Expain the speedy construction time of the second death star then.

It was a crash build, they had already built one, and it was nowhere near
finished.

> Further,
> if Death Star 1 is ~10% done at the end of Episode 3, and hadn't even
> started construction as of the end of Episode 2, why would it take a
> further 20-odd years?

Gross structure always goes faster than the detail work.

This is one of the reasons liberty ships could be built so fast: There
was very little in their construction that was not gross structure, and
what there was could be done almost entirely off site and installed as
gross structual units.

> Having an entire galaxy from which to draw both resources and manpower
> would tend to accelerate the build speed. If the government could afford a
> few more material contractors and to triple the workforce on that carrier,
> it would get done a lot sooner. It isn't like the completion date is
> required by outside forces. The only thing that stops the government from
> doing anything is money or politics. Neither of which is a problem for the
> emperor.

There is a limit to how much you can speed things up by throwing men and
money at it. As for the RL Nimitzs, even during the Reagen era they took
years to build, (crash build projects might get that down to a year[1],
but I wouldn't put money on it).


[1] Which is still about 11 months too slow if the balloon had gone up.

--
Phoenix

 

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Wildwood wrote:
> Henry Chen <mr_o_chen@hotmail.com> you up next, work it out now.
>
>
>>Of course, it still doesn't explain Obi-Wan's rapid
>>decline into old age. Unless he comes from a short-lived race.
>
>
> Or maybe he thinks that he could have stopped something bad from
> happening by actually making sure a job WAS completed instead of just
> assuming it was...
>
> Stress ages many people before time can.

An excellent example of this is Jimmy Carter. He entered the White
House looking younger than his true age, and left it looking ten years
OLDER than his true age.




--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

 

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Dirk Collins wrote:
> Sea Wasp wrote:
>
>> KUBRICK? Dear GOD no. I have seen nothing to indicate he'd have
>> the faintest idea of how to do a kickass space opera. James Cameron,
>> possibly. Peter Jackson or Sam Raimi, yes. But Kubrick? His main foray
>> into SF, 2001, was sluggish and opaque; even if that was his intent,
>> it shows precisely the wrong mindset for doing a Star Wars movie. It'd
>> be almost as bad as getting a comedy director in the seat.
>
>
> Wow. I can't believe you of all people missed the most important story
> arc of 2001. It was clear as the blue sky.
>

Story arc? It was one movie. No time for story arcs. It had one
(rather muddled and clumsily handled) story to tell. It's one of my
least-favorite movies that I don't consider pure trash.




--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

 

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> I would like to hear about "A Clockwork Orange". How may I
> subscribe to your newsletter?

Oops, please don't yell at me about the reposting.

 

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"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news😛j9t81d7ubviuh9qpns7ed288iumnub9k7@4ax.com...
>
> And oh yea...wtf is up with the Death Star apparently taking more than 20
> years to actually build? It looks about 10% done at the end of the movie,
> but it doesn't get finished until 1/3rd of the way through Ep 4...huh?
>
It's not the same one. They built the first one, it sank in a swamp. They
built another one, it sank in the swamp. They built a third one, it burned
down, fell over and then sank in the swamp. Now the fourth one, that's the
one we saw in Episode IV.

Glenn D.

 

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"Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@commiecast.net> wrote in message
news:ltadndr-vIxUwgzfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>
> "Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
> news😛j9t81d7ubviuh9qpns7ed288iumnub9k7@4ax.com...
>>
>> And oh yea...wtf is up with the Death Star apparently taking more than 20
>> years to actually build? It looks about 10% done at the end of the movie,
>> but it doesn't get finished until 1/3rd of the way through Ep 4...huh?
>>
> It's not the same one. They built the first one, it sank in a swamp. They
> built another one, it sank in the swamp. They built a third one, it burned
> down, fell over and then sank in the swamp. Now the fourth one, that's the
> one we saw in Episode IV.

Best explanation EVAR.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley

 

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Dirk Collins wrote:

> Still think that 2001 is sluggish and opaque?

Yep. Sluggish as hell, and opaque as the Hudson River. Clarke's novel
explicated material that Kubrick seemed hell-bent on making
unintelligible, and certainly flowed a LOT better.


How would you make it
> different?

I wouldn't. The "story arcs" you describe (which don't fit my
definition of "story arc", so we were talking at cross purposes; I saw
all of those rather obvious plot elements when I read the book) are
mostly things I wouldn't be interested in writing.


>What do you consider a good Sci-Fi movie?

Forbidden Planet is a good one of the old school. Alien and Aliens
were cool. The original Star Wars, naturally -- though it depends on
what you are including under the "Sci-Fi" banner. If we're talking
about any speculative fiction material, the possibilities widen. If
we're discussing mostly space-opera, there's different tracks I could
go off on -- Char's Counterattack or Crusher Joe would certainly rate
mention (even if the former did have continuity problems with respect
to the originating series). And must it be just theatrical movies, or
do we include TV series and/or OVAs as well?



--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://www.livejournal.com/users/seawasp/

 

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Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 May 2005 09:46:54 -0400, Werebat <ranpoirier@cox.net> scribed
> into the ether:
>
>>
>>
>>Presto wrote:
>>> GUSH!!!
>>
>>You are gushing blood?
>>
>>Why doesn't R2-D2 recognize Yoda if he knew him in the past and wasn't
>>mindwiped?
>
> How does 3P0 not make the connection with "The Maker" and Vader? Why
> wouldn't he recognize Tatooine since that is where he was created and
> spent his first 10 years (WORKING ON THE SAME FARM LUKE BRINGS HIM
> TO)?

If 3PO got wiped, him not recognizing the farm is no big deal. That
Luke's uncle didn't recognize him is a little more weird, but then some
20-30 years can make a difference to human memory.


Keith
--
Keith Davies "Trying to sway him from his current kook-
keith.davies@kjdavies.org rant with facts is like trying to create
keith.davies@gmail.com a vacuum in a room by pushing the air
http://www.kjdavies.org/ out with your hands." -- Matt Frisch