RPGs that have made a difference in my gaming history

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Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Mean_Chlorine wrote:

> Thusly Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>
>>it was just too damn hard on the eyes & the brain. Seems like I had to be a
>>hippie fanboy 1-6 lover to appreciate or understand any of it; no decent
>>intro, no backstory, just some murder & a really poor UI/dialogue tree by
>>today's standards.
>
>
> You've just described the vast majority of olden rpg's. Script and art
> was often/usually made by the programmer, with a budget which today
> would hardly cover a week of development, and they were designed to
> run on machines which were inferior in processing power and storage to
> a present digital camera.
>
> I've tried on occasion to go back to those I remember most fondly, but
> they just don't cut it. They were great for their day but time has, as
> a rule, not been kind to them.
>
> Like you say, too hard on the eyes and brain.
>

For me, the lack of script and backstory is what made an RPG. I HATE
HATE HATE these new, over-scripted monstrosities. Just lemme hack a few
monsters and explore a bit, eh?

CH
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

.... there came a great "Diane" <phonyaddress@invaliddomain.com>
flying, and he bore tidings beyond hope, crying:

>
>"Michael Vondung" <mvondung@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:16fppbqp0bdbo.yx4twotrq6pe.dlg@40tude.net...
>> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:48:33 +1000, Nostromo wrote:
>>
>>> So, what is the best Ultima of them all? VII (Black Gate?)
>>
>> I'm the only person who really liked Ultima 8 (Pagan). 😛
>>
>> M.
>>
>> PS. Hey, I work for one of the designers/coders of Ultima 3! But I still
>> think 8 was great.
>
>
>
>No you are not alone...I liked U8 as well as U7 and U4.

so did I. U8 was great after the page, though not as perfect as U7 of
course.
--
"This is an extremely primitive and paranoid culture."
(James T. Kirk on 20th century America, Star Trek IV)
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

.... there came a great "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> flying, and he
bore tidings beyond hope, crying:

>More or less in order I played them:
>1986: Temple of Apshai (my first RPG)
>1987: Wizardry 1 (my first real RPG)
>1988 or so: Ultima 2 (I beat my college friends and finished it first!)
>1989 or so: Pool of Radiance (my first D&D RPG after having played pnp
>D&D for 2 years)
>1990 or so: Hero's Quest (later renamed Quest for Glory, you could play
>the game three times and have different stories with the 3 different
>characters)
>90s: Betrayal at Krondor (first RPG with a real emphasis in story,
>besides I had just read the books)
>95?: Arena (I could make my own spells, nice!)
>98?: Baldur's Gate (my first RPG with inter-PC interactions)
>00: Everquest (first game where I could actually roleplay! as in
>becoming someone else and seeing the world through his eyes. I'll
>always play 1st person view in MMORPGs)
>02: Planescape Torment (played it late, inter-PC interactions to the
>max)
>03: Kotor (in Xbox) (great story)
>04: City of Heroes (best PC development system I've played to date)
>
>Those are only the games that for one reason or another have made an
>impact in my memory. I've played miriad other RPGs but they're just
>rehashes of one of the ones I mentioned

apart from those mentioned I would add two:

Ultima Underworld: first game to introduce "real-looking" 1st person
3D (not just flat services meeting at right angles)

Diablo 2: first massive online multiplayer rpg

uhm ... what is "City of Heroes" ? did I miss something here?

--
"This is an extremely primitive and paranoid culture."
(James T. Kirk on 20th century America, Star Trek IV)
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

.... there came a great "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> flying, and he
bore tidings beyond hope, crying:

>Diablo 2 is not really a 'massive' online multiplayer rpg, it's just a
>MORPG (I havent' seen a Diablo 2 server with 2000 people playing it,
>that's the 'massive' part missing).

? you are kidding, right ?
--
"This is an extremely primitive and paranoid culture."
(James T. Kirk on 20th century America, Star Trek IV)
 
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"Cole Turner" <cole@nospam> wrote in message
news:l5l7c1h9qmcqq76q81lsv020dcq2782vv5@4ax.com...

> Diablo 2: first massive online multiplayer rpg

Didn't Ultima Online and EverQuest predate Diablo 2 by a couple of years?
Or am I missing something here?
 
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Michael Vondung wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:48:33 +1000, Nostromo wrote:
>
>> So, what is the best Ultima of them all? VII (Black Gate?)
>
> I'm the only person who really liked Ultima 8 (Pagan). 😛
>
> M.
>
> PS. Hey, I work for one of the designers/coders of Ultima 3! But I
> still think 8 was great.

I really loved the games the engine came from . . . but U8--nah. You're
weird, MV. 🙂

--
chainbreaker
 
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Nostromo wrote:
> Thus spake Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk>, Wed, 29
> Jun 2005 11:44:16 +0200, Anno Domini:
>
>> Ultima II and III were great games, but IV made me leave the entire
>> series in disgust.
>
> So, what is the best Ultima of them all? VII (Black Gate?) I hear
> some say, but I d/led it last year from some abandonware site with
> all the plugins & it was just too damn hard on the eyes & the brain.
> Seems like I had to be a hippie fanboy 1-6 lover to appreciate or
> understand any of it; no decent intro, no backstory, just some murder
> & a really poor UI/dialogue tree by today's standards. Oh well, to
> each their own...*sigh*...

You needed to have been there at the time, Nos.

Right now, I couldn't stand to play any of them either, I don't think. At
the time, though, they were great.

--
chainbreaker
 
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Thus spake Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk>, Thu, 30 Jun
2005 10:11:39 +0200, Anno Domini:

>Thusly "Eden R" <edroy@zip.com.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>>I beg to differ,
>>
>>I think Ultima IV was arguably the greatest RPG of all time.
>>
>>Big statement: consider the drought we are in now and the games we have
>>played, even
>>games I like such as NWN and BG series are not in the early Ultima league
>>(probably up to Ultima VIII)
>
>NWN is pointless hack-n-slash puke (at least the original campaign -
>that was the worst rpg I've ever played, and put me off trying any
>expansions). BG1 similarly is pointless hack-n-slash puke.
>BG2 is a good game, admittedly, but there's plenty of other good rpg's
>in recent history, notably Planescape: Torment, Gothic 1 & 2, KOTOR,
>Morrowind, Kult, Fallout 1 & 2, Darkstone, Diablo 2.
>
>Ultima IV, however, simply is not one of them. Unless you've always
>dreamed of roleplaying a hippie in fantasyland.

Goddam hippie scum!!!

Actually, there's a great book around the hippie movement of the late
60s/early 70s called Ringolevio - highly recommended!

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
 
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Thus spake Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk>, Wed, 29 Jun
2005 22:05:10 +0200, Anno Domini:

>Thusly Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>>it was just too damn hard on the eyes & the brain. Seems like I had to be a
>>hippie fanboy 1-6 lover to appreciate or understand any of it; no decent
>>intro, no backstory, just some murder & a really poor UI/dialogue tree by
>>today's standards.
>
>You've just described the vast majority of olden rpg's. Script and art
>was often/usually made by the programmer, with a budget which today
>would hardly cover a week of development, and they were designed to
>run on machines which were inferior in processing power and storage to
>a present digital camera.
>
>I've tried on occasion to go back to those I remember most fondly, but
>they just don't cut it. They were great for their day but time has, as
>a rule, not been kind to them.
>
>Like you say, too hard on the eyes and brain.

Just d/led it & Exult overnight & am trying again...man, I can't tell you
what it's doin to my brain on a 19" LCD...argghhhhh#@#$%$#$%^#!!!

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

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"Paul Fedorenko" <pfedorenko@look.ca> once tried to test me with:

>
> "Cole Turner" <cole@nospam> wrote in message
> news:l5l7c1h9qmcqq76q81lsv020dcq2782vv5@4ax.com...
>
>> Diablo 2: first massive online multiplayer rpg
>
> Didn't Ultima Online and EverQuest predate Diablo 2 by a couple of
> years? Or am I missing something here?

Yes, both of them did. Ultima Online was 1997. EverQuest was 1999. And
Diablo 2 was 2000. This is according to MobyGames.

And the only thing "massive" about D2 was the chat room spam.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

burnsdavidj@yahoo.com once tried to test me with:

> I believe there is an open-source remake that is alot more Pentium
> IV/Athlon 64 generation friendly, but based on the same plot and
> interface. IIRC its called "Exodus" and is basically Ultima VII parts 1
> & 2.

Exult I think is what you're referring to.

> Although its not my favorite RPG of all time, I think a reasonable
> person can make an argument that it is one of the best if not the best.
> Baldur's Gate II takes the honour IMHO, closely followed by Planescape
> and Fallout I & II. Alas Black Isle, I knew thee well... 🙁

Yah, pitty about Black Isle / Interplay. Well at least we still got
Bioware. :)

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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"Knight37" <knight37m@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9685C0C6CD29Aknight37m@130.133.1.4...

>>> Diablo 2: first massive online multiplayer rpg
>>
>> Didn't Ultima Online and EverQuest predate Diablo 2 by a couple of
>> years? Or am I missing something here?
>
> Yes, both of them did. Ultima Online was 1997. EverQuest was 1999. And
> Diablo 2 was 2000. This is according to MobyGames.

I thought as much... first massive online RPG my ass.

> And the only thing "massive" about D2 was the chat room spam.

Well... It had a few other things in common... Wankers camping spawn zones
in PVP areas to kill hapless players when they came back into a game... the
mindless drive to find more and more monsters so as to get more and more
loot so you could buy better equipment and kill bigger and nastier monsters
and get better loot to buy better weapons to kill more monsters and get
more...

Can you tell I'm not a big fan of MMO games?

That said, I have to agree with you.Diablo 2 was as much an MMO as, say...
Quake II or Half-life.
 
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"Mean_Chlorine" <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:r087c15pj4o1udui8jhais293p1fi6ajtk@4ax.com...
> Thusly "Eden R" <edroy@zip.com.au> Spake Unto All:
>
>>I beg to differ,
>>
>>I think Ultima IV was arguably the greatest RPG of all time.
>>
>>Big statement: consider the drought we are in now and the games we have
>>played, even
>>games I like such as NWN and BG series are not in the early Ultima league
>>(probably up to Ultima VIII)

I used them as examples of modern day gaming and very successful in the
market
>
> NWN is pointless hack-n-slash puke (at least the original campaign -
> that was the worst rpg I've ever played, and put me off trying any
> expansions). BG1 similarly is pointless hack-n-slash puke.
> BG2 is a good game, admittedly, but there's plenty of other good rpg's
> in recent history, notably Planescape: Torment, Gothic 1 & 2, KOTOR,
> Morrowind, Kult, Fallout 1 & 2, Darkstone, Diablo 2.

The fact that you say that NWN/BG are hack and slash but then put forward
KOTOR and especially Diablo
as good rpg's confuses me greatly as Diablo though fun had no story at all
and is probably not even a RPG

Planescape which I think is one of the greats as well as the Fallout series
are good examples...
unfortunately I believe they are good examples for my argument that rich
games which make you choose what being ahero and the difference between good
and evil are in the direct lineage of Ultima IV

Your argument seems to boil down to you were frustrated that you couldn't
use on area affect spell
without losing some honor :)
>
> Ultima IV, however, simply is not one of them. Unless you've always
> dreamed of roleplaying a hippie in fantasyland.
>
Hardly...they are the same challenges examined in literature for thousands
of years...Lancelot though
having many virtues lacked Fidelity or Loyalty and therefore failed to be a
true paragon of virtue
as Galahad later embodied. Same concept and nothing at all to do with
hippies

Cheers
EdenR
>
> --



---
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Well we're just saying that 'massive' means # of people playing in the
same world at the same time (or ability to do so). It still is a fussy
concept, so far the difference has been clear. Either a game supports
about a max of some 64 (like playing Quake online or Team fortress,
Diablo 2, etc) or it supports 1000+. When a game comes that supports
250 people online... is it massive? what about 125? When does
'massive' start?

On the guildwar thing. Isn't $70 too much? I'm sure you can find a
game in a store for some $40 which includes of course the CD key (or
are you talking about canadian dollars maybe?)
 
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Thus spake "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com>, 30 Jun 2005 11:31:30 -0700, Anno
Domini:

>2000 people at the same time? Only I've seen is like 20 or so, but hey
>I played it like 5 years ago

You really are setting out to make a <beep> out of yourself, ey?

The most ppl I have ever *seen* in the one place in a mmog is a few dozen &
they weren't playing I assure you. Most mmog parties are limited to 6-8,
period. So, given you could chat with 100s/1000s of players in D2 anyway,
what's the farkin diff? Might as well call is a mmog...

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
 
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Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> once tried to test me with:

> The most ppl I have ever *seen* in the one place in a mmog is a few
> dozen & they weren't playing I assure you. Most mmog parties are
> limited to 6-8, period. So, given you could chat with 100s/1000s of
> players in D2 anyway, what's the farkin diff? Might as well call is a
> mmog...

But it's not. It just isn't. I can't help it if your experience with a true
MMORPG was so limited. I've been in PvP raids in WoW that had a couple of
hundred players involved. In the end game it's all about raid-level
instance dungeons with upwards of 40 or so participants. Battlegrounds has
a bunch (haven't tried it yet) of players on each side.

In D2 the most you'd have is 8 players in any one game, and most of that
was for 10 minute cow-runs with people you didn't even know and wouldn't
see again much less care about. Of course, sometimes you could join in with
friends or maybe agd regulars, but max was 8 at a time.

D2 wasn't even the first online RPG, much less massive online RPG. Diablo 1
of course, preceeded it, but there were other games that had online play
even before Diablo. The original Neverwinter Nights on AOL. Dark Sun
Online. Various rogue-likes. Meridian 59. Not to mention tons of text-based
RPG "MUDs".

I would rate Meridian 59 the first MMORPG, or maybe Ultima Online if
Meridian isn't "massive" enough.

--

Knight37 - http://knightgames.blogspot.com

Once a Gamer, Always a Gamer.
 
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Thus spake Sarah Jaernecke <nightfire.udic@web.de>, Thu, 30 Jun 2005
21:19:51 +0200, Anno Domini:

>8) Morrowind: Too many games put you on rails and never let you leave
>the beaten path. I love a good, tight story, but I also love exploration
>and MW was the first game since U6/7 (and, to a significantly lesser
>degree, the BG games) that gave me the impression that I was truly
>playing in a big wide world instead a tiny little stage. Yeah, the world
>was static and the NPCs were cardboard cutouts. MW had its flaws, no
>doubt about it, but it also got many things right: the editor, the
>learning-by-doing skillsystem, alchemy, home-made spells and
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>enchantments, exploration, decorating houses, the lore and history (even
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>if it doesn't play much of a role in the game) ... and it was
>graphically beautiful. I have high hopes for Oblivion. Too bad it
>doesn't take place in the Morrowind province, though -- those Dunmer
>have grown on me, and I despise the "in'wah" Imperials. 😛

Sarah, you had until you went & undid everything that's *wrong* with MW with
those lines above. Sorry, credibility out the door faster than Kramer comes
in! ;-p

And no mention of Fallout/Torment/Gothic kind of doesn't help...

--
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.... there came a great "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com> flying, and he
bore tidings beyond hope, crying:

>2000 people at the same time? Only I've seen is like 20 or so, but hey
>I played it like 5 years ago

I now understand the confusion - I meant playing the game online at
the same time, but not being in the same game. of course there weren't
2000 in one game, however the numbers on one server were a lot larger
--
"This is an extremely primitive and paranoid culture."
(James T. Kirk on 20th century America, Star Trek IV)
 
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In article <6fp8c111qv5c1hv0294ab4suqeqaf8942g@4ax.com>,
nostromo@spamfree.net.au says...
> Thus spake "wolfing" <wolfing1@yahoo.com>, 30 Jun 2005 11:31:30 -0700, Anno
> Domini:
>
> >2000 people at the same time? Only I've seen is like 20 or so, but hey
> >I played it like 5 years ago
>
> You really are setting out to make a <beep> out of yourself, ey?
>
> The most ppl I have ever *seen* in the one place in a mmog is a few dozen &
> they weren't playing I assure you.

You'll see a few dozenm playing in the Ironforge Auction House in WOW.

- Gerry Quinn
 
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Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote:
>Sarah Jaernecke <nightfire.udic@web.de> wrote:
>> ... MW had its flaws, no
>>doubt about it, but it also got many things right: the editor, the
>>learning-by-doing skillsystem, alchemy, home-made spells and
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>enchantments, exploration, decorating houses, the lore and history (even
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>if it doesn't play much of a role in the game) ...
>
>Sarah, you had until you went & undid everything that's *wrong* with MW with
>those lines above.

Well, the skill system, alchemy and spell crafting were far too easily
abused, and are only enjoyable parts of the game if your the kind of
person that likes using character editors, the decorating houses and the
lore and history parts of the game worked just fine. If they weren't
something you enjoyed, you could just ingore them and your gaming
experience wouldn't be harmed by their presence in the game.

Ross Ridge

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //
 
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Thusly "Eden R" <edroy@zip.com.au> Spake Unto All:

>> NWN is pointless hack-n-slash puke (at least the original campaign -
>> that was the worst rpg I've ever played, and put me off trying any
>> expansions). BG1 similarly is pointless hack-n-slash puke.
>> BG2 is a good game, admittedly, but there's plenty of other good rpg's
>> in recent history, notably Planescape: Torment, Gothic 1 & 2, KOTOR,
>> Morrowind, Kult, Fallout 1 & 2, Darkstone, Diablo 2.
>
>The fact that you say that NWN/BG are hack and slash but then put forward
>KOTOR and especially Diablo
>as good rpg's confuses me greatly as Diablo though fun had no story at all
>and is probably not even a RPG

KOTOR had good story, but Diablo was just fun. It was shallow, but it
didn't have pretentions of being anything else.

Not even an rpg? What is the official definition of rpgs these days?

>unfortunately I believe they are good examples for my argument that rich
>games which make you choose what being ahero and the difference between good
>and evil are in the direct lineage of Ultima IV

Not that you had any such choice in Ultima IV. And that D&D predates
Ultima IV. As do the concept of free choice, and the duality of good
and evil. But again, I do not see that you had choice in Ultima IV,
what you had was a lot of pseudoreligious twaddle.
In Ultima III, I could rob merchants and kill townspeople, so IMO I
had more choice there than in Ultima IV, where, if I wanted to
complete the game, I was coerced into roleplaying a religiously
motivated pacifist serving... yes, what WAS I serving, really?

>Your argument seems to boil down to you were frustrated that you couldn't
>use on area affect spell without losing some honor :)

Actually it was the hippiesque buddhist-inspired touchy-feeliness that
irritated me most, although the broken combat handling was the last
straw.

>> Ultima IV, however, simply is not one of them. Unless you've always
>> dreamed of roleplaying a hippie in fantasyland.
>>
>Hardly...they are the same challenges examined in literature for thousands
>of years...Lancelot though
>having many virtues lacked Fidelity or Loyalty and therefore failed to be a
>true paragon of virtue
>as Galahad later embodied. Same concept and nothing at all to do with
>hippies

A simple 'yes' would have sufficed.


--
Out of memory.
We wish to hold the whole sky.
But we never will.
 
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Thus spake "chainbreaker" <noone@nowhere.com>, Thu, 30 Jun 2005 18:48:31
-0400, Anno Domini:

>Nostromo wrote:
>> Thus spake Mean_Chlorine <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk>, Wed, 29
>> Jun 2005 11:44:16 +0200, Anno Domini:
>>
>>> Ultima II and III were great games, but IV made me leave the entire
>>> series in disgust.
>>
>> So, what is the best Ultima of them all? VII (Black Gate?) I hear
>> some say, but I d/led it last year from some abandonware site with
>> all the plugins & it was just too damn hard on the eyes & the brain.
>> Seems like I had to be a hippie fanboy 1-6 lover to appreciate or
>> understand any of it; no decent intro, no backstory, just some murder
>> & a really poor UI/dialogue tree by today's standards. Oh well, to
>> each their own...*sigh*...
>
>You needed to have been there at the time, Nos.
>
>Right now, I couldn't stand to play any of them either, I don't think. At
>the time, though, they were great.

I'm trying again now...just roaming around the first town pinching
everyone's goodies...is there a point? Ok, I have to solve the murder to be
let out of town (convenient but overbaked plot hook). How many hours is this
puppy anyway? The inventory/stat seem very simplistic by today's standards
even if I do get past the graphics. Hmmm...lucky I'm a gaming masochist! :)

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

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Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> wrote:
>I'm trying again now...just roaming around the first town pinching
>everyone's goodies...is there a point?

There's a point to the overall game, dealing with the threat that the
Guardian poses to the world.

> Ok, I have to solve the murder to be let out of town (convenient
>but overbaked plot hook).

It's part of the game's story and not the only murder you'll encounter.

> How many hours is this puppy anyway?

It's pretty long.

> The inventory/stat seem very simplistic by today's standards even if
>I do get past the graphics. Hmmm...lucky I'm a gaming masochist!

Yup, lucky you. The inventory system isn't just simplistic, it's badly
designed. Once you get a lot of stuff you'll find really it annoying
having to move everything in your bags in order find some tiny bauble
or key.

Ross Ridge

--
l/ // Ross Ridge -- The Great HTMU
[oo][oo] rridge@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
-()-/()/ http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/rridge/
db //
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

>
> > The inventory/stat seem very simplistic by today's standards even if
> >I do get past the graphics. Hmmm...lucky I'm a gaming masochist!
>
> Yup, lucky you. The inventory system isn't just simplistic, it's badly
> designed. Once you get a lot of stuff you'll find really it annoying
> having to move everything in your bags in order find some tiny bauble
> or key.
>
It's quite realistic, though. Ever tried to dig to a full backpack to find a
small key?
Ah, the fun of finding an old piece of cheese under the party's supply of
well-worn swamp boots, and then eating it :)

Markus
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg (More info?)

Thus spake Knight37 <knight37m@gmail.com>, 30 Jun 2005 23:54:45 GMT, Anno
Domini:

>Nostromo <nostromo@spamfree.net.au> once tried to test me with:
>
>> The most ppl I have ever *seen* in the one place in a mmog is a few
>> dozen & they weren't playing I assure you. Most mmog parties are
>> limited to 6-8, period. So, given you could chat with 100s/1000s of
>> players in D2 anyway, what's the farkin diff? Might as well call is a
>> mmog...
>
>But it's not. It just isn't. I can't help it if your experience with a true
>MMORPG was so limited. I've been in PvP raids in WoW that had a couple of
>hundred players involved. In the end game it's all about raid-level
>instance dungeons with upwards of 40 or so participants. Battlegrounds has
>a bunch (haven't tried it yet) of players on each side.

Fair enough, but most of that content is leveled at power-gamers as far as
I'm concerned, so I don't really count it as the 'norm' of a mmog.

>In D2 the most you'd have is 8 players in any one game, and most of that
>was for 10 minute cow-runs with people you didn't even know and wouldn't
>see again much less care about. Of course, sometimes you could join in with
>friends or maybe agd regulars, but max was 8 at a time.
>
>D2 wasn't even the first online RPG, much less massive online RPG. Diablo 1
>of course, preceeded it, but there were other games that had online play
>even before Diablo. The original Neverwinter Nights on AOL. Dark Sun
>Online. Various rogue-likes. Meridian 59. Not to mention tons of text-based
>RPG "MUDs".
>
>I would rate Meridian 59 the first MMORPG, or maybe Ultima Online if
>Meridian isn't "massive" enough.

M59 was my first dabbling with a mmog - whatever happened to it?

I'm *very* close to splashing $70 to get the online Guildwars cd-key, but I
guess you wouldn't call that a mmog either, ey K? ;-p

--
A killfile is a friend for life.

Replace 'spamfree' with the other word for 'maze' to reply via email.
 
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