News RTX 4080 Too Expensive? Gamers Say Otherwise, as Cards Sell Out Within an Hour

Math Geek

Titan
Ambassador
1ff1efeb274aff62355393e0cfe442eafc3a279bf03915ec7a323345535ff0ce.jpg
 

PlaneInTheSky

Commendable
BANNED
Oct 3, 2022
556
762
1,760
Without any insight on how many cards were available, this information is meaningless.

By writing these articles tech sites support a narrative that the product is so desirable that it immediately sold out, without any actual information about sold units. One could ask if limiting supply on the first day isn't a strategy of tech companies to fuel that narrative.
 
Last edited:

Giroro

Splendid
The scalpers have much much deeper pockets this time around, thanks to the crypto and pandemic cash-grabs. These aren't just random people buying 5-10 cards in person anymore. Multiple companies have grown to the point they have dozens of employees and proprietary bots/tools that are developed in-house. They can and do buy cards buy the actual shipload, bypass embargos, and sell them on the black/grey market anywhere in the world.

So, real stores will restock eventually. We just have to wait until the Russian Military has enough gaming GPUs to power their supercomputers, or whatever. Or maybe they won't restock. I don't really care. I wouldn't buy these cards, even if Nvidia cut the price in half.
 

elforeign

Distinguished
Oct 11, 2009
101
142
18,770
Without any insight on how many cards were available, this information is meaningless.

By writing these articles tech sites support a narrative that the product is so desirable that it immediately sold out, without any actual information about sold units. One could ask if limiting supply on the first day isn't a strategy of tech companies to fuel that narrative.

Totally agree with you on this. $1199 or whatever the MSRP on these cards is exorbitant. I got a 3080 12GB for $749.99 and I thought that was an expensive MSRP, not even mentioning the insane prices of the last 2 years where these were also in the thousands of dollars.

I do not support these prices and will refrain from buying the 40 series. Outside of the 4090, whose position in the stack was always for the more money than sense crowd, the 4080 is at best a 4070 class hardware when looking at how much functionality was cut out of the die in comparison to the 4090 die.
 

elforeign

Distinguished
Oct 11, 2009
101
142
18,770
The scalpers have much much deeper pockets this time around, thanks to the crypto and pandemic cash-grabs. These aren't just random people buying 5-10 cards in person anymore. Multiple companies have grown to the point they have dozens of employees and proprietary bots/tools that are developed in-house. They can and do buy cards buy the actual shipload, bypass embargos, and sell them on the black/grey market anywhere in the world.

So, real stores will restock eventually. We just have to wait until the Russian Military has enough gaming GPUs to power their supercomputers, or whatever. Or maybe they won't restock. I don't really care. I wouldn't buy these cards, even if Nvidia cut the price in half.

If Nvidia cut the price in half it would actually make the 4080 good value.
 
Without any insight on how many cards were available, this information is meaningless.

By writing these articles tech sites support a narrative that the product is so desirable that it immediately sold out, without any actual information about sold units. One could ask if limiting supply on the first day isn't a strategy of tech companies to fuel that narrative.
And yet... it's still news that they sold out. Obviously we will continue to monitor the situation over the coming weeks. I can only hope AMD's 7900 XTX / XT live up to the hype and outperform the 4080, and that there's better supply. But I strongly doubt Nvidia intentionally limited supply for either the 4090 or 4080 launch. It's cocky enough about the brand recognition and demand that it would want to test the waters and play it straight.

I'd wager at least twice as many 4080 GPUs were available on launch day as there were 4090 GPUs. And despite me and other reviewers dinging it quite heavily for the price hike, it still sold out. If anyone works at Newegg or Amazon and wants to tell me how many cards actually came and went through a warehouse, though, I'd love to hear it! :)

But let's be clear: Nvidia has done this rodeo a lot of times. It actually has the sales data! The fact that both 4090 and 4080 have now sold out at launch likely just confirms to Nvidia that it can charge whatever it wants (up to a point) and get away with it. I'm sure there were debates over the 4080 launch price internally at Nvidia. Shenanigans like artificially limiting supply would not back up those that said, "Go higher!" on the price. Which means we can likely count on continued higher pricing for the rest of the 40-series GPUs until or unless they stop selling out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: renz496
Nov 16, 2022
2
2
10
Nvidia's latest GeForce RTX 4080 graphics cards have sold out at most retailers. Apparently there are enough rich gamers that reviewer complaints about high prices didn't matter much.

RTX 4080 Too Expensive? Gamers Say Otherwise, as Cards Sell Out Within an Hour : Read more

Please see the October 2nd 2022 Q&A for investors at GTC. Jenson and the CFO, her name escapes me, answered in response to a question on supply of GPUs that they would be undershipping GPUs in Q2 and Q3 and would not begin ramping until late Q4 and/or into Q1 of 2023.
This is being done in collaboration with their partners to clear inventory of 3 series cards in a, as they describe it, 'soft market'. Supply likely to ramp into Q1 of next year with the likely 'sold out' status drives holiday shoppers towards taking what they can get their hands on into Christmas.
https://investor.nvidia.com/events-and-presentations/presentations/default.aspx

Its also amusing that we seem to flip flop on card pricing. Analysts were quoting horrible price cuts to 3 series GPU' last year but the footnotes showed the pricing was taken from EBAY sales numbers, not MSRP. The average sales price on ebay last gen was probably close to what MSRP is now from NVDA but now its too expensive? Why wouldn't they charge as much as they are knowing their consumer is willing to pay. (Discounting the fact that their N4 monolithic die is likely a ton more expensive then Samsung's 8NM used in 3 series.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: palladin9479

RichardtST

Respectable
May 17, 2022
242
268
1,960
No big deal. Just a bunch of people trading in their fire-hazard-4090 cards for something (hopefully) a little less flammable... I would be downgrading too if I had bought a 4090. I'm taking the company into team red cards from here on out though, so makes no difference to me any more.
 
...But I strongly doubt Nvidia intentionally limited supply for either the 4090 or 4080 launch. It's cocky enough about the brand recognition and demand that it would want to test the waters and play it straight.
Really?!
Maybe I'm just a bit more cynical, but I've been around these corporate heads in the finance industry long enough to know that if they could create artificial scarcity, enough to keep cards mostly out of stock and prices high, for the new gen and the last gen, and make more money doing it, year over year, they would do so in a heartbeat! If supply of the next gen cards wasn't an issue, the price of the top last gen cards would have to drop at least another 25-50% below where they're at now.

As you say, they've already got the data.
 
Rule 1: All high end products initially sell out quickly. There is a proven history of this. Wait 6 months and check availability. That is true gauge of popularity. Everyone who buys high end early needs it for reviews and or has a lot of spare money. This is a gaming card, not a professional one.

Rule 2: numbers matter. Small batches that sell out quickly make a product look more popular than it is. It creates a false perception that is good for marketing. That's it. It also pushes people to more profitable higher margin items. This is why you saw only premium models of 3080s even though the performance delta was minimal to the base model. But the base model was never available because they wanted those margins.
 
Really?!
Maybe I'm just a bit more cynical, but I've been around these corporate heads in the finance industry long enough to know that if they could create artificial scarcity, enough to keep cards mostly out of stock and prices high, for the new gen and the last gen, and make more money doing it, year over year, they would do so in a heartbeat! If supply of the next gen cards wasn't an issue, the price of the top last gen cards would have to drop at least another 25-50% below where they're at now.

As you say, they've already got the data.

Harley Davidson a philosophy for years was create 5% less than actual demand. A waiting list, and higher margins create a in demand image.
 
  • Like
Reactions: palladin9479
D

Deleted member 14196

Guest
Really?!
Maybe I'm just a bit more cynical, but I've been around these corporate heads in the finance industry long enough to know that if they could create artificial scarcity, enough to keep cards mostly out of stock and prices high, for the new gen and the last gen, and make more money doing it, year over year, they would do so in a heartbeat! If supply of the next gen cards wasn't an issue, the price of the top last gen cards would have to drop at least another 25-50% below where they're at now.

As you say, they've already got the data.
Yep. The money is out there and they are obviously ballsy enough to take it.

“They’re sitting there, waiting to give you their money. Are you going to take it?”

Businessmen and salesmen always take it

gamers obviously make a hell of a lot more money than me. That or they don’t have mortgages or car payments or have to pay their own bills.
 
  • Like
Reactions: digitalgriffin

Dantte

Distinguished
Jul 15, 2011
173
60
18,760
I'm confused, there are a ton of cards in stock on Amazon right now with outragous prices, some even higher than their 4090 counterpart. Take for instance the MSI Gaming X Trio 4080 is $2400 from the MSI Store, and the MSI Gaming X Trio 4090 is $2199 from the MSI store... Both in stock
 
  • Like
Reactions: palladin9479
I'm confused, there are a ton of cards in stock on Amazon right now with outragous prices, some even higher than their 4090 counterpart. Take for instance the MSI Gaming X Trio 4080 is $2400 from the MSI Store, and the MSI Gaming X Trio 4090 is $2199 from the MSI store... Both in stock
Where are you looking? Because I see nothing on the first page of a search for "RTX 4080" on Amazon. But I do see cards past about page 5, starting at maybe $2,000+. They're all being sold by third parties (read: people are scalping).
157
 
Really?!
Maybe I'm just a bit more cynical, but I've been around these corporate heads in the finance industry long enough to know that if they could create artificial scarcity, enough to keep cards mostly out of stock and prices high, for the new gen and the last gen, and make more money doing it, year over year, they would do so in a heartbeat! If supply of the next gen cards wasn't an issue, the price of the top last gen cards would have to drop at least another 25-50% below where they're at now.

As you say, they've already got the data.
I don't buy into this mentality. Marketing might, but I think it's BS. Having something continually sold out is bad for the business, because it means lots of people aren't able to buy your product. Not having sufficient supply at launch is different, because it's almost impossible to have sufficient supply on any new high-end GPU. You get 80-150 chips per wafer, max. So even 10,000 wafers goes pretty fast if you're Nvidia. That's basically a whole month's supply. Having ~5% less than demand is one thing; having 5% of demand is a completely different story.

Please see the October 2nd 2022 Q&A for investors at GTC. Jenson and the CFO, her name escapes me, answered in response to a question on supply of GPUs that they would be undershipping GPUs in Q2 and Q3 and would not begin ramping until late Q4 and/or into Q1 of 2023.
This is being done in collaboration with their partners to clear inventory of 3 series cards in a, as they describe it, 'soft market'. Supply likely to ramp into Q1 of next year with the likely 'sold out' status drives holiday shoppers towards taking what they can get their hands on into Christmas.
https://investor.nvidia.com/events-and-presentations/presentations/default.aspx

Its also amusing that we seem to flip flop on card pricing. Analysts were quoting horrible price cuts to 3 series GPU' last year but the footnotes showed the pricing was taken from EBAY sales numbers, not MSRP. The average sales price on ebay last gen was probably close to what MSRP is now from NVDA but now its too expensive? Why wouldn't they charge as much as they are knowing their consumer is willing to pay. (Discounting the fact that their N4 monolithic die is likely a ton more expensive then Samsung's 8NM used in 3 series.)
Nvidia cut production requests for the 30-series GPUs in Q2/Q3 — this already happened. It was done to help reduce 30-series inventory. Nvidia did not cut Ada orders as far as we know; it has never suggested such. But Ampere orders were to Samsung and Ada was for TSMC, so it couldn't use Samsung to create more Ada GPUs.

As for the pricing last year, which I tracked monthly, I used eBay prices precisely because everything was constantly sold out and there was no retail availability. The only way to reliably find stock on an RTX 30-series GPU last year was eBay, same for RX 6000-series. As of maybe ~May/June this year, we finally got to the point where there was inventory on shelves and online at retail. Then I could stop using eBay. There was never a suggestion from anyone responsible that the eBay prices were good — quite the contrary. So just because people (miners often) were buying stuff on eBay for stupid prices doesn't mean those prices were acceptable. They were "too expensive" then and are "too expensive" now.

GA102 manufactured at Samsung Foundry, Nvidia gets up to ~86 usable chips per wafer. Let's assume the wafer cost is $4,000. That's $46.50 per chip. Wire-bonding, packaging, etc. then cost extra, but those are mostly going to be the same regardless of process node. AD102 manufactured at TSMC gets up to ~89 chips per wafer. Let's say triple the wafer cost, so $12,000. That's $135 per chip, plus the wire-bonding, packaging, etc. The real cost isn't the chips, it's all the R&D that goes into creating the chips in the first place. Nvidia likely spent billions creating Ada Lovelace, and probably 50% more than it spent on Ampere just because things were more complex going to N4 process and packing in lots more transistors.
 
  • Like
Reactions: digitalgriffin
No it isn't, anyone who has been paying attention knew all the MSRP cards would be snagged up on introduction. It wasn't remotely worth publishing.
I'll let the higher ups know that we should stop writing stories that get views just because people guessed correctly that the cards would sell out. "Don't write about RTX 4080 being sold out! It's doing traffic but people in the forums will be unhappy!" /s

Sometimes it's really that simple: Write about stuff that gets views.
 

Dantte

Distinguished
Jul 15, 2011
173
60
18,760
Where are you looking? Because I see nothing on the first page of a search for "RTX 4080" on Amazon. But I do see cards past about page 5, starting at maybe $2,000+. They're all being sold by third parties (read: people are scalping).
View attachment 157
Amazon has a dedicated page for the RTX 40## series, Amazon.com: GeForce : GeForce RTX 40 Series You can select between all listed 4090s or 4080s
Amazon.com: MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 4080 24GB GDRR6X 384-Bit HDMI/DP Nvlink Tri-Frozr 3 Ada Lovelace Architecture Graphics Card (RTX 4080 16GB Gaming X Trio) : Electronics 1 left in stock now
Amazon.com: MSI Gaming GeForce RTX 4090 24GB GDRR6X 384-Bit HDMI/DP Nvlink Tri-Frozr 3 Ada Lovelace Architecture OC Graphics Card (RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio 24G) : Electronics 20 in stock

The pricing is a JOKE! Why would I buy a lower card of the exact same series for $200 more, fear of melting a connector, but thats what RMAs are for...

EDIT: nevermind, I see the "shiped and sold-by" is different from the selling store. Your right, these are scalpers already turning and burning. Amazon should really remove the official Store link if they are being sold by a 3rd party, its misleading.