Rumor: Nintendo 3DS to Pack Two ARM CPUs

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[citation][nom]nexus9113[/nom]PSP has only one MIPS chip at 333Mhz, 3DS has 2 ARM11 233 MHZ (More than likely one for each screen) plug a dedictated GPU.[/citation]The PSP also has a dedicated GPU. Even so, the 3DS has better specs than the PSP. I don't know how this dual processor will work out. In the DS one of the CPUs handled the image rendering and game mechanics while the other handled the sound and wi-fi.

[citation][nom]nexus9113[/nom]He wasn't talking about an emulator. He was talking about an actual port to the Windows OS. Here's a comparison, Metal Gear Solid, ran fine on a 33Mhz PSX processor, but try running it on a 33Mhz PC processor. Not gonna work because you have to run the OS not just the game.[/citation]
My bad.
 
[citation][nom]tburns1[/nom]Did you know that Japanese gamers prefer the same-old-story, ridden-on-rails gameplay over fancy graphics and open ended story? I just found that out recently. That hate western style games (like GTA and such).[/citation]Strange japanese love their RPGs and most of the time they aren't games ridden-on-rails.
 
Too bad they didn't put in 2 800MHz processors.
Then we could get the 3ds in 720p with video's playing at 24fps no problem.

Can't wait for a 3d Castlevania game though, I may actually buy this since my silver classic ds snapped in half 😀
 
Leave it to Nintendo to own the portable / handheld market... forever.

Ever since the original B & W gameboy was released, Nintendo has always improved the hardware with each successive generation. Adding color. Improving graphics. Adding dual-screens and a touch-screen... ect.
All the while trying to maintain backward-compatibility.

The PC Geeks usually cry[sis] about the hardware...
But pc's and consoles are worlds apart.

Even in the console camp, anti-nintendo fanboys mock the hardware.
Ever since Sega and its Genesis system, graphics were always touted as the be all end all in every console-makers' marketing campaign.

But in the end, it seems that Actual Gameplay takes priority over graphics for Nintendo, and sticking to that mantra has worked for them many times - Always inventing and innovating newer forms of gameplay and interaction. Ninty brought us the + pad, the analog stick, the "first true" 3-D world, wireless motion controllers, ect. ect...

The release of the 3DS is just another innovative notch in Nintendo's gamepaly belt and another weapon for its arsenal.

Hell, even Sony jumped on the wagon with their wii-mote clone.
But who will attempt to compete against the big N in a battle for portable supremacy? Perhaps the N is setting its sights on Apple?

However the future turns out, one thing is for sure...
The 3DS could be the reprisal from the old virtualboy failure...

 
Well, given that IGN's last so-called 'insider specs' on Nintendo's stuff (with the Wii) were wildly unfounded and didn't really hold up, I'm going to hold my breath here. A few things to point out:
■At 2x266MHz, that brings the 3DS's CPU power somewhere around eight times that of the original DS. And given differences in architecture, well beyond even the unlocked PSP.
■It's been known for a while that the Tegra rumors are false; the GPU is a PICA-200, which has a major upshot over all other handheld GPUs on the market, including the PSP's: and that's that it includes hardware T&L. Oh, it also has hard-coded shaders that let it handle all special shader effects used on the PS3 for effectively free.
■Graphics-horsepower-wise, the high-end of the estimates for the GPU were at 400MHz, at which, accounting for the reduced resolution, the 3DS would've had better power than the Playstation 3. That's right, the THREE, not TWO. This was seen in real-time demonstrations back at E3, such as the Metal Gear Solid 3 remake, which looked SUBSTANTIALLY better than the original PS2 game.
■'4MB dedicated graphics memory' vs. 64MB total sounds like IGN pulled numbers out of their rear end. Either that, or they're referring to 4MB of dedicated frame buffer space, in which case they merely don't know what they're talking about. (again) Keep in mind that the PSP's memory was not all useable for graphics; only 8MB was, with the other 24MB of the base not fast enough; the last 32MB of the later models was slower still, only really useful for buffering.
Still, we'll see whether these numbers from IGN actually have any backing, or whether they were fabricated, like they did with their Wii numbers.

[citation][nom]dalta centauri[/nom]Sonic 3 for the genesis had a 3d world environment.What was the first Nintendo game?[/citation]
Sonic 3's Special Stages weren't exactly 3D. They were wrapping 2D, much like any Final Fantasy map of the era. And hence they actually AREN'T spherical, as the only way for such a 2D map to work in 3D is if the world is shaped like a donut. The game's code doesn't even register elevation; you simply get a "status = jumping." Functionally it'd be identical if Sonic instead "insta-shielded."

Also, the game came out in 1994. Have you not forgotten that Nintendo put out the true-3D Star Fox back in 1993? (which was then promptly followed by a bunch of SuperFX-powered 3D games) Or even games relying on Mode7 playing fields that had 3D gameplay, including launch titles PilotWings and F-Zero? Similarly, Mode7-rendered maps were VERY popular with many games, such as Secret of Mana, which also came out in 1993. Course, not to say that Sonic 3 is a bad game, (actually, I consider it one of the best games ever made) but it is wholeheartedly a 2D game.
 
[citation][nom]eddieroolz[/nom]I don't know why everyone is knocking the dual 266MHz processor. Different platforms require different levels of power. Not everything needs Tegra or a 1GHz processor.[/citation]
Furthermore, the ARM-11 *IS* what the smartphone-class Tegra chips are packing. 2x266 MHz, even if IGN's number isn't woefuly below-spec, still gets within the same league as the single ARM-11 used in the Tegra APX chips designed for smartphones. The higher-end Tegra 650 and 250 GPUs are not made for phones; they were made for Netbooks, and guzzle WAY too much power to ever appear in a handheld.

GPU-wise, the PICA200 is very specialized, allowing it to handle very specific, specialized performance; even at 133MHz, it still pumps out 533 million pixels per second, over double that of a smartphone-class Tegra or the A4's PowerVR. Similarly, its hardware T&L unit can handle 10.2 million polygons at that speed, approximately quadruple that of the Tegra's 2.6.

As for memory, if IGN couldn't get a valid source of screenshot for the size, then they're pulling numbers out of their rear end. Getting RAM quantities is the easiest thing to do: just tear open the device and read what's printed on the chips. 64MB is the lowest-end estimate, though, so it's still potentially valid; this ranges from 64-256MB, and without a bloated OS (like iOS 4 or Android) the 3DS won't need anywhere near as much RAM for non-game stuff.

Memory bandwidth is another question, though; mobile devices can have either a 32-bit or 64-bit interface, depending on whether they spring for a second RAM chip. Most phones are too tiny to afford the space for a second, effectively halving their bandwidth, though the 3DS's case should be readily large enough. If they take the slowest RAM that'd fit the architecture, that'd be 266 MHz mobile DDR-1... which would give the 3DS 2.1 GB/sec of bandwidth, slightly below the 2.66 GB/s of the full-speed Apple A4, and above all Tegras EXCEPT the 250. Yep, that's right... The 3DS doesn't use a Tegra, but it's just as good, if not superior to, a Tegra.

And here's the kicker about the GPU: the PICA200 currently comes in a speed of 200-400 MHz, not 133. Hence it's doubtful that the 3DS will be clocked as IGN says. Estimates based on the power draw of the DS/DSi and comparing the power draw of the ARM-11 and PICA200 suggest that, should Nintendo aim for similar battery life, we'd be seeing up to triple the clock speeds IGN is claiming... In other words, 800 MHz for the ARM-11 and 400 MHz for the PICA200. The 800 MHz figure is backed up by the fact that ARM doesn't make chips as slow as 266 MHz; they come from 350-1000+ MHz.

Factoring in the second CPU, and the PICA200's superiority to Nvidia's and PowerVR's mobile GPUs, this would mean iOS and Android phones won't be catching up on paper for a few years at least.

[citation][nom]nexus9113[/nom]PSP has only one MIPS chip at 333Mhz, 3DS has 2 ARM11 233 MHZ (More than likely one for each screen) plug a dedictated GPU. The PSP does not have better specs, that's just simple math.

(snip)

that MHz means nothing,[/citation]
I will note you DID kinda just contradict yourself there. 😛

Let's also not forget we're comparing a MIPS R4000 vs. a far more modern ARM-11. Also, the way programming works, you don't need a "separate CPU for each screen." Case-in-point with all the multi-display PCs, that ran perfectly fine with a single CPU/GPU setup. All you need for multiple displays is multiple ports; (and RAMDACs if they're analog displays) each port is simply given its own memory address to read from, and it doesn't care which CPU/GPU writes to that address, as long as there's something to read. Think of it in the same manner as all the split-screen multiplayer console games from the 90s.

And technically, the PSP DOES have a second CPU, though its architecture is a little weird, and hardly as capable for gaming as the first. The second "CPU," also known as the "Media Engine" has some limitations. For one, it lacks a true SIMD unit; it merely has a hacked-down one called a VME, that can do little else than handle audio/video. (the SIMD unit is the 'meat' of a CPU's horsepower) For the most part, this co-CPU actually lies largely idle/dormant when playing games. It's powered up when running H.264 media, allowing the main CPU to largely go into standby; this design allows the PSP to handle either both gaming and media tasks without having to have the battery drain that'd come with a "one-size-fits all" CPU design.

Also, on the graphics side... The PSP does have a GPU, but it's very, very primitive; it's roughly equivalent to a DX6 desktop GPU. (before nVidia and ATi started using the "GeForce" and "Radeon" names) It has 2 ROPs and 4 texture units, making it equivalent to an old-era "two-pipeline" GPU. It also completely lacks any T&L unit, requiring the CPU's sole multi-purpose SIMD unit be leant to the GPU to handle all the geometry. Similarly, any special shader effects must be handled by the CPU as well, which can really drain on the processing power available for the actual game core. By contrast, the PS3 has 40 total SIMD units instead of 1, with 8 on the CPU, 8 on the GPU for geometry, and 24 on the GPU for shaders.

The 3DS has a major advantage here; the GPU has a dedicated T&L unit, and both CPUs have SIMDs. Also, it has 4 ROPs and 8 texture units, and further, has built-in fixed-function capability for almost all shaders, (except HDR and Tesselation) allowing the GPU to effectively do "for free" what the PSP would have to hog the main CPU for.

So in the end, it's not just "simple math;" we have to look over the details of the architecture, to find that, as I'd noted in the comment right above this one, the 3DS well surpasses the gaming capabilities of anything on the market, including much-vaunted $500 Android and iOS smartphones.
 
The reason phones can get away with a high clock speed is because of the kernel and OS that run in between the software and hardware. For example my HTC Hero normally has a 600MHz CPU. However, to conserve battery life, when the phone is idle it drops the clock rate as low as it can go and runs only the essentials (telecommunications) at around 20MHz. Once it actually starts running actual processor intensive programs the clock rate goes up, and the battery life goes to hell. That is the general rule for all mobiles.
The 3DS on the other hand doesn't have this luxury, its CPU must maintain a constant clock rate. If the battery life is to be above 6 hours then the clock rate must suffer. The same applies to the GPU. Also, without a OS to demand CPU time and memory, performance will be significantly better on the 3DS.

@nottheking: The Pica200 actually does support hardware accelerated tessellation and procedural textures as stated in the tech demo.
 
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