RuneScape Exposed Part 2

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Methinks there is some rather green, leafy material

Wha?? Now you've got me confused....


It said ages 8 to 12 right on the flyer I have in my hands.

Soooo, by your reasoning Runescape is not for people 13 and older. You just said it is for 8 to 12 year olds. So now you must make up your mind. Is the text saying "8-12 year old" intended as a reading level for the book? Or age restrictions for the game?

And whatever your decision, I still have to ask: HOW does a little sticker of age on book absolve a parent's responsibility to monitor what THEIR KIDS do on the internet?!?!


My son got it at school and it is from Scholastic, so parents will be lulled into thinking oh, Runescape is for 8+.

A lulled parent needs to have CPS come and take their children away from them. They don't have the responsibility to take care of them.

This whole thing harkens back to the person that sued McDonald's because they spilled hot coffee on themselves and got burned.

Take a little responsibility for your actions, and the actions of those that look to you for guidance (that would be your kids).... :?
 
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Personally i feel this will just go around in circles, lol. Despite what may have been there "24 hours ago" Jagex has now updated their website and adequate information has been posted.

Luring - some descisions within every company require tuning and managing. Luring was one of them.

Luring was a huge problem and Jagex condoned it. You think that now it has been 'fixed" ( i prefer to call it Jagex finally finding a conscience and finally following their own rules) that was the only problem?

I quit because I could not believe that Jagex was not only not following its own rules, but also because the scamming and bug abuse has become outrageous. I have had dozens of adult friends quit because the scamming and begging was so bad it wasn't fun to play anymore. I have had many younger friends quit because they were scammed. I would venture to say in the 3 and a half years it would be in the hundreds.

I loved many aspects of the game as well, but by condoning scamming, not fixing bugs when they know they involve scams, not fixing the problems associated with scams, the game community was spiraling down the toilet. I just hope Jagex follows through and stops the ones they can and discourage those they cannot. (being the house bug is almost a year old now, and a teleport bug I reported 2 years ago was used in forcing people into the wilderness) The sheep are fluffier and the monsters look more gruesome. Tell me why that was a priority.

How can a parent make an informed decision for their child to play the game when they have no clue what it entails. I knew because I played. I watched my son like a hawk and he was never allowed in the wild.

I see parents here taking these articles as an affront. Your children may love the game but, that is not the point. Parents need to know the game is not as innocuous as it seems and the education they get is not the one Jagex will have you believe.

You should fix up your previous posts so that it doesn't look as though you are arguing against yourself.
 
How can a parent make an informed decision for their child to play the game when they have no clue what it entails. I knew because I played. I watched my son like a hawk and he was never allowed in the wild.

Would you buy your kid a handgun without knowing what it does? Handguns have been around a long time so most people know what they are. But open a firearms store in the middle of a tribe of Astralian aboriganis who have never seen a coke bottle let alone a handgun and what happens? Let's say you market the handgun as a kid's toy and let's say they are free guns. They try to give them away to kids in the tribe... What happens? I can tell you what happens: the parents try out the gun first to see what it does. When the gun goes off, everyone is scared and cautious, so the kids can't play. The grown-ups try out the gun more. When one of them successfully kills a goat for their next meal from 100 yards away, they praise the gun and everyone is happy. They love the gun, they teach their kids how to use the gun. The kids are now bringing home the dinners and everyone loves the gun. Then, when one kid takes the gun blows away his dad, all of a sudden the gun becomes evil and the townspeople are shouting for the firearms store to put adequte warnings on the guns and some demand the store be closed down.

God, this is ridiculous, if you've gotten this far, then I hope you know I am being totally facetious.

If a parent has no clue, then maybe they shouldn't be parents.... :/


I see parents here taking these articles as an affront.

An affront to what? Good taste? Common sense? Responsibility? It's not a responsible article. A responsible article does not protray itself as a witchhunt. How can the author play for 2 years(!) and then decide to bash the heck out of the game? Ummmm, was that two years of research?

Parents need to be responisble for their own kids and make their own informed decisions. If a parent read charles' article, their only reasonable conclusion would be to NOT let their kids play the game. This is an uninformed decision because millions of kids are enjoying the game and having a grand time. Half my son's classmates play the game and they constantly meet up in the game to duel or play Castle wars. It's a good time and they learn many valuable skills (which I listed above and won't go into again)..


Parents need to know the game is not as innocuous as it seems and the education they get is not the one Jagex will have you believe.

And parents would know the "real Runescape" by participating in their child's interests and activities. If they can't do that, then unplug the computer and back away.

If you so concerned about the fact that Jagex doesn't put up on their website that the Runescape world contains mean people and that omission of this fact is misleading, then go after every single advertiser of shody products for false advertising. Start with this thing: http://www.coldheat.com/classic.cfm I bought it and it doesn't work worth a darn! They are misleading people!!!!
 
Ok, you have your opinions and I respect that. And you have concerns regarding the so-called cover-up of the "darker" side of Runescape. That's valid.
Thank you.
But I think the way you are going about it is very heavy-handed. You bash the game like an evangalist, yet you continue to play. That in itself seems contradictory to me.
It's not contradictory in the slightest. I'm surprised that you have a hard time with understanding that someone can complain about the behavior of a company yet still be a customer. I'm hardly unique in that.

As I've said, the problems with the game don't affect me personally. And quitting the game would serve no purpose, and just allow me to lose currency with what is going on.
I use sharks to heal myself when I train slayer tasks. I fish and cook the sharks myself so I don't have to buy them. I don't have a lot of money as I give a lot away to friends and family in the game. Going to slayer tasks with my own sharks is self-sufficient. Do you not understand this?
I do understand it. But most people don't do what you do, they use the economy to produce what they enjoy and buy what they need.

For example, I too fish sharks but I don't use them -- I sell them and buy other food. Some people buy sharks with money they get from other skills or efforts. Gold and easily-marketable items are fungible, and the huge quantities of items like sharks, magic logs, ores and so forth are evidence that they are most often obtained to use as currency.
Why would I stop fishing when I have only just begun to catch the best fishable food in the game??
Because you can make more money in other ways and buy sharks if you need them. (I'm not saying you should, I'm saying that's why some people do.)

Anyway, this is all way off topic.
Again, you come across as a person with very limited knowledge of the game. Quests are completely, 100% optional, my friend. No one is making you do them. If you don't like the wilderness, then don't do those quests.
qhenur, the entire game is "100% optional". I never said otherwise. I said that Jagex keeps adding content to the game that encourages people who have no interest in PKing to go into the Wilderness, where they get PKed. Are you seriously disputing that?
The best way to make runes and keep them to sell is through the abyss, that's true. It sounds like you want your cake and eat it too. You can't have both buddy.
Again, all I said about this is that Jagex is encouraging people to go into the Wild. I never said anything about wanting or eating cakes (either literally or figuratively. 😉 )
You shouldn't mislead readers into thinking that much (or even a small fraction) of the game takes place in the Wilderness.
I never said anything about how much of the game takes place in the Wilderness.
Parents of young players (or potential players) need to be aware of the dangers of the Internet as a whole. Runescape is not immune to those dangers. When you design an impregnable, 100% kid-safe MMORPG, you will be richer than Bill Gates. But singling out Runescape misleads people into thinking that Runescape alone is worse than other online activites, which as a smart, computer savy adult, you should know is just not true.
I single out Runescape because Runescape is the MMORPG I am familiar with, and the only one I know of with a reputation for being "safe for kids". It's also the only one I know being marketed directly towards them when it should not be.

c
 
I made a point in my original post about scamming. There are alot of measures to stop this happening, such as a second trade screen, the accept button being moved for the second accept. It is the users own responsibility to make sure that they are not scammed.
The second trade screen is insufficient, and Jagex knows it. They simply don't care -- they consider it more important to make fluffy sheep and write April Fool's jokes than safeguard their customers from being scammed.
Luring happens when a player says to another "come this way" they do so, and must pass a WARNING sign that they will be entering dangerous territory, once they pass that warning sign (that appears every time they log out, then log in and re-enter the wilderness unless they request it not to) incidentally.
Irrelevant. It's lying for personal gain, which Rule #2 has always said was illegal, yet Jagex contradicted its own rule because it was convenient for them, then engaged in a coverup of the entire matter. They only reversed it when they were pressured into doing so by people like myself and Pauly.
In fact, they used the exact same arguments to rationalize its legalization that the lurers are now using since it was made illegal.
I dont understand this comment, sorry. re-iterate?

I mean, Jagex is acting like they are some sort of moral guardians in saying that luring should be illegal when they themselves spent 2 weeks in late Feb and early March spouting the very same BS about "warning signs being adequate". I have all of it saved.

And they were also VERY abusive to the people who were criticizing them back then using the same arguments they now are using. 😉
It is the parents responsibility to research into something like this. Jagex is not misleading about its security.
Jagex is extremely misleading, I documented numerous false claims in my article. You seem to have fallen back on flat denial, and it's not convincing in the slightest.
Because the game is thirteen plus. There is 3 years of children (some would argue more) years left in that category.
Um, the Handbook is being marketed at pre-teens. :roll:

c
 
I myself saw this book advertised in the Scholastic book pamphlet and was confused and concerned. I did some research and found out that the reading level is intended for kids 8-12 and there was no intention for the book's reading level to imply that kids younger than 13 were allowed to play Runescape.
Do you have the book? I do. It is very clearly aimed at pre-teens in every way: design, size, cost, tone, language and graphics.

Why did Jagex do this, and choose a kids' publishing house?
I don't see this book as being a sturdy foundation on which to build your argument. It's not even a load bearing wall.....

You're whistling past the graveyard. I still await any rational justifications for why Jagex has done this.

c
 
I don't mind explaining what "reading level" means at all. :) Books have a read level associated with them so that people can gauge if they will be able to comprehend the words contained therein. A man might be 45 years old but reads at an 8 year old level. Reading level doesn't (or shouldn't) imply "intended audience" age level.

Newspapers are written to the 8th grade reading level. But I venture to guess 8th graders make up less than half of a the Washington Post's reader audience... :)

Does the Washington Post use a children's publisher? Is it distributed through book clubs in elementary schools?

If you're going to be disingenuous, I'll simply stop responding. I don't mind engaging in reasonable debate but there are other things that demand my time.

c
 
Soooo, by your reasoning Runescape is not for people 13 and older.
Did Pauly decide how to market the book, or did Jagex/Scholastic? :roll:
And whatever your decision, I still have to ask: HOW does a little sticker of age on book absolve a parent's responsibility to monitor what THEIR KIDS do on the internet?!?!
How does the fact that parents can STOP kids from being spoon-fed this game absolve the responsibility of the companies DOING it?
A lulled parent needs to have CPS come and take their children away from them. They don't have the responsibility to take care of them.
CPS should come and take the kids away from anyone who thinks that a game is safe that has a reputation for being safe and that is marketed in schools by the biggest children's publisher in the world?

You know, for someone who attacked my motivation based on your feeling that I was too harsh, you should consider the lengths that you are going to here to apologize for Jagex's inexcusable behavior.

c
 
It said ages 8 to 12 right on the flyer I have in my hands.

Soooo, by your reasoning Runescape is not for people 13 and older. You just said it is for 8 to 12 year olds.

So now you must make up your mind. Is the text saying "8-12 year old" intended as a reading level for the book? Or age restrictions for the game?

My message that was partially quoted says” That book is the ONLY official GUIDE endorsed by Jagex, on their game, Runescape. It said ages 8 to 12 right on the flyer I have in my hands.

My son got it at school and it is from Scholastic, so parents will be lulled into thinking oh, Runescape is for 8+. Jagex official statements may say otherwise , and the terms and conditions are now required to say 13+ by COPPA as Jagex asked for private information, but....but, an official guide is released for people to use while playing the game. To say otherwise is ludicrous.” end of my previous quote

It is on the only 'official guide” to the game ever released. Please don’t tell me you don’t know what a guide is? It is a preliminary strategy of the game itself, intended for players of the game. You may attempt to derail this conversation, but the truth is Jagex markets the game to children. If I am incorrect please tell me how you think an official game guide can be 'reading material for an 8 year old'.

Here is a quote from scholastic:

"Runescape the official handbook
Exclusive 24cm x 36 poster included.

Learn basic skills, master quests, get to know creatures and more! All you need to know to be a Runescape expert. Book and poster only 8.99. ages 8 and up" . That sounds like a guide to me.

And whatever your decision, I still have to ask: HOW does a little sticker of age on book absolve a parent's responsibility to monitor what THEIR KIDS do on the internet?!?!

Who said it absolved parents, other then yourself? A parent cannot make an informed decision about a game from the game makers themselves. The ‘official guide’ is being co-written by Jagex and a Children’s Author, marketed through Scholastic to schools throughout Canada and the United States.

A lulled parent needs to have CPS come and take their children away from them. They don't have the responsibility to take care of them.

This whole thing harkens back to the person that sued McDonald's because they spilled hot coffee on themselves and got burned.

Take a little responsibility for your actions, and the actions of those that look to you for guidance (that would be your kids).... :?

I take offense at your analogy. I am from Canada...we don't sue people at the drop of a hat and I do take responsibility for my actions. Time for Jagex to take some responsibility for theirs.

My son is no longer allowed to play. I no longer play. Jagex is not telling parents other then what they wish us to hear. This site offers parents an opportunity to see what the game is like…the good the bad and the ugly.
 
I just hope Jagex follows through and stops the ones they can and discourage those they cannot. (being the house bug is almost a year old now, and a teleport bug I reported 2 years ago was used in forcing people into the wilderness)
Two years, huh?

That bug still exists. A friend and I duplicated it over the weekend.
The sheep are fluffier and the monsters look more gruesome. Tell me why that was a priority.
Nobody can answer this question.

c
 
I find this whole article to be basically just a rant by someone who obviously has had a bad experience with the game. There are few, if any, facts to support its arguments, just personal experience and opinions.

Are we really to believe that runescape is going to damage our children? I'm sorry but if playing rs damages a child in some way then that child had other issues to begin with, like parents who don't care enough to teach them their own ethics. This is typical of the super hyper fearful attitude of a lot of parents today who think that little Johnny is going to be scarred for life if someone says something mean to him or his self esteem will be irreversibly broken if he doesn't get a medal for running a race that he finished last in.

It's really quite simple. If you don't want your child playing rs then don't allow them to.
 
If you're going to be disingenuous, I'll simply stop responding. I don't mind engaging in reasonable debate but there are other things that demand my time.

Disingenuous? Me? Charles, I am the furthest from it. I think the game as good as the internet gets. I have a Computer Science bachelor's degree from VA Tech and a Master's degree in Computer Systems from UMD. I've been a web developer since the web was made public and been programming in Java since around the time it came out in Nov '95, and I'm currently make a living developing web applications in Java (among other languages) for various companies inside the Washington DC area. I am active in a few ICANN standards committees that deal with the future of the Internet and actually worked on the business plan for the ".kids" domain extension with a founding member of the domain name registration industry. I am commited to kids' safety on the internet as much as (if not more than) you, sir. Don't assume all those that play online games are uneducated children. I'm sure you think you are a very smart person, to this I cannot comment, except for the fact that your articles lack any concrete evidence and fact. You rely on your 2 years of playing the game which no one here but you can atest to your experiences therein. This is shakey ground on which to build a temple for your cause.

I'll ask you a question that you can answer right now (but will only be provable over time). Do you plan on providing advertisments on this new website or yours... truth scape??
One would argue that if this is the case, then it is you who is being disingenuous by creating a false sense of alarm that would only help in gathering more traffic to your new site and thus generate more advertising revenue for yourself.

I sincerely hope you do not have any advertisments for anything on your new site. But, of course, only time will tell.

The fact of the matter lies here: Jagex has an extremely successfull formula. Being in the limelite will always subject you to persecution by thoses that don't want you to be in the limelite. If you want to crusade against them, go right ahead, I'm sure you are not the first. 8 million players are having fun and you are among them. Don't claim your membership continues as a means to stay current and do research. We are not that naive.

I'm not going to go back and forth and pick nits with you; opinions are like a--h0les: everyone has one and everyone thinks their's doesn't stink.

With that said I'll leave these readers with another article to read, one with a different point of view.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4774534.stm
 
This is the same BS that is in any thread about this subject.

It just shows you have reactionaries on any side.

Whenever you get a game that gives all the warnings, like Bully or GTA, people site the one kid-psycho that beats his family to death with a baseball bat and blames video games as his motivation.

Whenever you get a game that is GENUINELY mis-representative of itself, such as RS, you get a bunch of people trying to defend the game as if it were somehow being threatened out of existence.

You like the game? Fine. You over 13? Fine. What does the authors call for removing the tip-book from the kiddie book sale thing do to your gaming experience?

Do you deny that there are Baiters, lurers and foul language all over? Every single defense has not denied it. They have all said, "Well that is not everywhere", "You have to avoid it", "It is like real life".

1. This means it is there.
2. Avoiding it is one thing, but acknowledgment by the game makers of its existence will at least alert parents to be more vigilant of what their kids play and how.
3. Real life is NOT like this. Unless, of course, you live in a lawless society. Kids do not go around swearing at any opportunity. Do they do it when adults are not around? Yes. But I have NEVER seen it this bad.

Why? Because half of the insulters, hell, 90% of them would get their butt handed to them by the other kid if they talked to him like that. Hell, 3/4 of them probably got the same insults thrown at them at school and are venting it on other kids just to feel better.




The bottom line is this. You can do whatever you want with a game in my opinion. But do NOT advertise it as something it is not.


Now quit trying to defend this thing like forcing them to admit that it is not good for kids would somehow change your gameplay.

Are you guys THAT insecure that you need to do that?

Let it go.

Fire is fire. It is very useful when you need or want it. You just do not let your kid play with it.


(PS, educational? BS! Don't even start with that. You get more education from Sesame street than 90% of the games out there, including this one. Sorry, but not one thing I have l played in the past 15 years has helped me in my job or life. It is a GAME, not a tutor.)
 
With that said I'll leave these readers with another article to read, one with a different point of view.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4774534.stm

I will not post on behalf of the authors of this article but just to make people aware i will say this.

Both of the authors were made aware of Jagexs' changed stance on luring as well as some of the negative aspects of Runescape. Nic Crowe brought the issue of luring up on a BBC4 radio interview. He has also said that there may be another article regarding the negative aspects of Runescape in the future.

I sincerely hope that he would not be met with the same sort of criticism i see here.
 
Bitch moan bitch moan, same crap we hear from wow and the other hundred or so games, its a game period. if parents cant keep kid under control its their own damn fault.

QFT.

Although I stand with what I have said before. I do believe people should have fair warning and I believe all these games should have very clear warnings on their packaging/websites:

Something like: In this game anything goes. Do not approach if you cannot deal with griefing, addiction or real life.


One might argue that kids will not heed such warnings. Or for that matter some adults. Fair enough. In the case of the adult, he has no one but to blame but himself if an adverse outcome occures.

In the case of the kid, if something bad happens, I do believe it is the parent's fault

For? Not knowing what their kids were up to. Not caring what their kids were up to. Not caring enough to foster a close enough relationship with them whereby if a problem began arise, it wouldn't have gone unnnoticed. Not teaching about life and the world, which increasingly incredulously continues to bombard impressionable young minds with material which can be best described as encouraging precociousness.

Like it or not games like these are going to be around, and your kids will come across them soon enough. I do mantain that if a kid is mature enough to deal with the issues involved in gaming, with proper strict regulation on part of the parent these games possibly are a reasonable form of entertainment so long as other areas in in said child's development are not neglected.
 
Disingenuous? Me? Charles, I am the furthest from it.
Well, the crack about the Washington Post was a bit much.

The game is being marketed towards kids, regardless of how one wants to interpret the reading level.
Don't assume all those that play online games are uneducated children.
I don't. It's just that they are most at risk due to Jagex's policies.
I'm sure you think you are a very smart person, to this I cannot comment, except for the fact that your articles lack any concrete evidence and fact.
I think you would have to be working very hard to try to pretend that you see no concrete evidence and facts in my articles. To wit:

- The lack of Jagex presence;
- The omissions from the Parents Guide;
- The bugs that don't get fixed;
- Jagex's games regarding luring;

and a lot more.

Your comment is simply false.
You rely on your 2 years of playing the game which no one here but you can atest to your experiences therein. This is shakey ground on which to build a temple for your cause.
On the contrary. After quite a lot of time in the game and on the forums, I understand it very well.
I'll ask you a question that you can answer right now (but will only be provable over time). Do you plan on providing advertisments on this new website or yours... truth scape??
One would argue that if this is the case, then it is you who is being disingenuous by creating a false sense of alarm that would only help in gathering more traffic to your new site and thus generate more advertising revenue for yourself.
There is no advertising on the site right now. There likely will be soon, to offset the cost of hosting and bandwidth.

I certainly didn't do this for the money. The only sites that really pay well for advertising on Runescape-related venues are the cheat sites, and I will not run their ads. Most likely I will lose money on TruthScape -- I already invested a month of my time on writing it for no pay.
Being in the limelite will always subject you to persecution by thoses that don't want you to be in the limelite.
So being in the limelight means that anyone that criticizes their behavior is just trying to "crusade" against them, no matter how deserving the criticism?

That's a rather self-serving, ridiculous position.

As for "persecution", the same applies to whistle-blowers who go after big corporations that have legions of sycophants -- think on that a while.

PS Thank you, ninjahedge.

c
 
One of the frist mistake when I played the game was I did not set the Age this was about 5 years ago. guess what It would not let me play the game. So the Age 13 been here for 5 or more Years. Nice try.

Here another question on Runescape the official handbook.

1 Why dont we ask Runescape if it is really a official handbook? Here why I ask this. I dont See any Notice on Runescape about this handbook?

2 Why is there no Tread on Runescape talking about this So Called official Handbook?

3 One other thing If it was oficial handbook would Runescape be selling it endore it also?

4 Lastly Could the book Be a Fake? Print the book in a differnt country could void a lawsuit of publishing the book.

I pm Runescape company to ask about this. When they answer this question we will get Ture facts.

I wish you people would do your Research then Answer the questions.
 
One of the frist mistake when I played the game was I did not set the Age this was about 5 years ago. guess what It would not let me play the game. So the Age 13 been here for 5 or more Years. Nice try

Interesting to hear, and I have no idea why, but the fact is it was 2005 before Jagex caved to all of COPPA's demands. The 13+ was initiated due to the requirement to sign in private information into a business site. It was that or not be able to market in the United States, or at the very least face heavy fines, lawsuits and the press until they did.

Here another question on Runescape the official handbook.

1 Why dont we ask Runescape if it is really a official handbook? Here why I ask this. I dont See any Notice on Runescape about this handbook?

Ask them please, but being it takes weeks to get an answer and you will no doubt get a form letter saying they are too busy to answer you, why don't you consider the following. Jagex is a multimillion dollar company. They would never allow that to be marketed all over North America. (Oh, and it also says copyright of Jagex on the inside cover, but I think you read that last time you asked)

2 Why is there no Tread on Runescape talking about this Tread?
One other thing If it was oficial handbook would Runescape be selling it also?

Runescape forums is where we tried to talk about just these very things. The suggestions were ignored, all posts on luring are locked, any warning of scams are locked or hidden. When the topic of the book came up, Andrew said he had a hand in writing it. Being it came out in January, those posts are long gone. Why not ask about it yourself in forums? And once again may we ask you to do a google search as Amazon and Scholastic will both come up "The official runescape Handbook and strategy guide".

Jagex official stance is that they do not advertise the game, that it is all word of mouth, so they do not wish to acknowledge the book. They do not wish the general population in the game to know that they are marketing to age 8 and up. Now that they have rewritten the parent guide (wow this site has made a huge difference in the few days it has been here) they say it is for 13 +, yet market an official guide for Elementary School Children throuh North America. Maybe if the players knew that, there would be an outcry?

3 Lastly Could the book Be a Fake? Print the book in a differnt country could void a lawsuit of publishing the book.

Jagex is a multimillion dollar company. The lawyers would have shut down sales 2 days after it was marketed and sued the author , Scholastic and anyone else involved. It is real. (sigh, please do the search rather then ask again, please? I tried to scan it but the scanner isn't working )

I pm Runescape company to ask about this. When they answer this question we will get Ture facts.

A few facts I found there only 1 post with with a child who found the book in school

Actually Charles has the book, and I have the flyer from Scholastic, and so does every Elementary school age child in North America. It has been in the last 2 Scholastic flyers at our school. Why not order one and see for yourself? I know you like the game, and wish to protect Jagex, but it is true.
 
I wrote:
I see parents here taking these articles as an affront

quote="qhenur
[An affront to what? Good taste? Common sense? Responsibility? It's not a responsible article. A responsible article does not protray itself as a witchhunt. How can the author play for 2 years(!) and then decide to bash the heck out of the game? Ummmm, was that two years of research?

That analogy about guns was an affront...for example. The article is truthful and yes it is an expose. He only touched on the bad points, in my view.

I do know that I've been playing with my 2 boys (11 and 8 years old) for nearly 2 years and we've enjoyed nearly every aspect of the game

You have children that were 9 and 6 when they started playing. Do you feel there is nothing in the game content your children should see or hear? Do you play with them every moment? Are you on your own computer playing, or playing with them, watching them over their shoulders? Or are you on your own computer on another server world? Are all the computers in the house in the same room? Do the children have a computer in their bedroom? Are all the computers set to not allow the children access to Runescape after a certain time at night? Are they learning things from the game you would not wish them to learn? Are they always honest and follow the rules? Answer honestly, please, being you say they have never encountered scamming in 2 years playing.

Parents need to be responisble for their own kids and make their own informed decisions. If a parent read charles' article, their only reasonable conclusion would be to NOT let their kids play the game. This is an uninformed decision because millions of kids are enjoying the game and having a grand time. Half my son's classmates play the game and they constantly meet up in the game to duel or play Castle wars. It's a good time and they learn many valuable skills (which I listed above and won't go into again).

What in heavens name does children having a great time have to do with this thread! The posts of those who lured showed they were having a great time as well, stealing and cheating and scamming. The children who hacked my son were having a great time. The children who hold doors closed ‘til you die, and bring you into a dungeon to die are having a great time. The point is the game has dark sides that few people here are admitting. No one has said it wasn't supposed to be fun.

Yes I saw all the skill you wrote on page one. Math skills are learned in school. The problems may require your child to use the math skill they have learned, or rather use a calculator, but it does not teach math. Please don’t tell me your 6 year old (now 8 ) did the math because (Player X is selling 2,000 logs for 40,000gp (gold pieces), Player Y is selling 1,500 logs at 35,000gp. Which is the better deal? This was your example.) either you helped him or he is way, way above average. Yes Runescape has an economy and deals with sums of gold, I agree, but it will not teach your child how to do the problem unless he has the skills already.

Appreciating the value of hard-earned money is a skill taught by Runescape? It teaches gouging, hoarding, deception, scamming and merchanting to make the most money you can from players. I think you best use real money and their allowance, and a bank account to teach your kids appreciation of money, being 400 mill is now the price for the in game item everyone wants? They will learn about money,yes; what values they learn about money is another story.

Teamwork? There are a few monster, very high level that require this, and a few mini games…Other then that there is no teamwork needed to play the game.

Strategy and Planning skills are not quite as tough as you say…Shall I work on this skill to day and click incessantly, or that other skill. Tough choice. And tough monster and strategy are far into the game, very little effort and thought needed, other then what to have in inventory. (We play too remember, and I should hope there are fun aspects of the game) They may be using the maps and learning effective routes, so you may have that as a learned skill. (my son learned that at age 6 too, in real life though.)

Patience. Ummm you stand there and click and watch your character swing 15 times at a rock to get ore. Sorry. Kids have a short attention span and are bored easily. You do need patience, but why do you think the kids are buying autominers. (and auto fish and auto woodcut, and auto slayer) I am surprised you didn’t say they learned how to actually mine and forge while learning patience.

Communication and Personal Interaction: It scares me that you are actually saying players are courteous. If I ran into any who are courteous in a day, I would compliment them, that's just how few there are! Adults are more courteous, so you must be hanging out in quit areas where only adults go. The community is so downright hostile and the begging is so rampant, going into a bank or a busy area makes one shudder.

Tell me how your 6 and 9 year olds learned to be courteous and polite in that environment. Actually tell me how the 6 year old communicated. Or are you speaking as an adult and ignoring the intent of the thread and the articles. You did say you made tons of friends in the game. Are your young children allowed to make friends in the game?

I did not play castle wars because I could not stand the taunting, the swearing, the abuse and the cheating. The fact you allow your child to play also has nothing to do with whether or not other parents wish their child to play Runescape.

If you so concerned about the fact that Jagex doesn't put up on their website that the Runescape world contains mean people and that omission of this fact is misleading, then go after every single advertiser of shody products for false advertising. Start with this thing: http://www.coldheat.com/classic.cfm I bought it and it doesn't work worth a darn! They are misleading people!!!!

You have me mistaken for someone who doesn’t care. Should I receive a faulty item you better believe I am getting my money back. If you are turning a blind eye of the reality of the game, that is entirely your fault. If you choose to ignore that everything Charles has written about is seen everyday and everywhere in Runescape, that is your decision.

I don't care what job you have, or did have, or what your combat is or whether you have java skills and your appreciation for Jagex or whether you fish shark, or whether your children are gifted. if you are saying Runescape is a bed of roses and has none of the aspects Charles has written about, you are the one doing parents a disservice. The fact that you chose to have your children play the game and be exposed is your choice. Let other parents make theirs.

Charles has been most kind putting up with insults from you. May I say then, that putting your resume up here looks more like you think someone from Jagex might be watching, then making a genuine reply to a thread
 
Hi,
sorry for tearing the quoted sentences out of context, I just felt like discussing your points further, pasting your general view of things more into the core of the problem discussed here at hand:

For? Not knowing what their kids were up to. Not caring what their kids were up to. Not caring enough to foster a close enough relationship with them whereby if a problem began arise, it wouldn't have gone unnnoticed.

So, to follow you to the extreme, kids should not be allowed to watch Sesame street or Teletubbies unless their parents already pre-screened the whole show first, or unless they sit through the whole programming with them? Should we follow every word, every move, every cut of the show to deem it allowable for our siblings to watch?

Not even the most overprotective parent would do that. Not because of lack of time, lack of responsibility etcetera. It's because such shows are greatly profiled to maintain strict, well-known standards in respect of the age and maturity level of its target audience - young preteens. As long as you make sure that the show your kids are watching is, indeed, one of those mentioned above, you can leave the kids (and the room) certain of no possible harm to be done. (except for sore, red eyes if watched from the point-blank range :))

Although targeted to a few years older audience, Runescape, or Jagex if you will, has lately tried to portrait itself as a game (game developer) with the same safety standards set for the kids as the beforementioned TV shows. They have made every attempt to "lure" a parent to a false belief of a save, secure game for their 8 to 12 years old. It's not only the purposefully-inacurate parent guide lull, out-of-the-harm game startup (introductory island walkthrough), the newbie-haven overkilled Lumbridge, its everything-made-easy tutors and bank that were redesigned with utermost care to trick a caring parent, Jagex now started to advertise its game more actively than ever at children web pages, children targeted books, stating _everywhere_ very clearly, that the game is suitable to minors of the preteen age. With all its connotations applied.

I believe that most, if not every non-gamer parent will fall for the Jagex's trap of TeletubbieScape and after a few hours or days of direct guidance, parents will leave the kids on their own, efectively just limiting the game time similarly as with the TV.

Not teaching about life and the world, which increasingly incredulously continues to bombard impressionable young minds with material which can be best described as encouraging precociousness.

In fact, it is vital for parents to explain that indeed, multiplayer games are nowhere close to real life; that they are artificial worlds with artificially made rules, gaming options and experiences. I'm getting tired of people, citing over and over one of the silliest excuses ever used on defence of their belligerence:

"It happens in real life all the time, so why should be a game any different".

Well, in real life, apart from set rights, we also have certain duties and regulations in effect that are placed upon the society we live in to keep its citizens protected and the rule-breakers of agreed-upon laws held liable with sanctions. In real life, it is upon every member of the given society to act to its standards, practicing his or hers rights as well as obligations.

But not in Runescape or any other artificial world/society-lookalike game. No one has the slightest oportunity to practice the rights expected, there are no means given to directly answer any attempt to break the rules or harm other person. On a schoolyard or a city street, if anyone gives you shit, you have the immediate opportunity to retaliate, either personaly or by calling the guy in charge of the place, or most likely, the wrong-doer will be pacified by onlookers way before any harm can be done. In the game, however, not even a place full of kids, save adults, can do a nough against one little brat. One person can spam the screen making any communication impossible, add any thinkable abuse to the mix and there's nothing to be done.

The silly excuse of the customer support report button is a joke. I've kept track of the names of every single person I reported and to this day, only two players were banned for their actions. I'm an adult and do realize that the images of characters on screen can't cause any real harm, but still I've been very shaken to see a person who threatened to kill my parents in real life (add more obscene insultations involving animals and sodomy to the mix) still walking around a month after I "reported" him. Yep think of this conversation - Hey man, I'm going to find and rape your kids, burn them in your house down and spit on their grave - Oh really? How about I'll go and report you - now that's a comeback, isn't it?

None of the people I know and ever had on my friends list were younger of age 20. In fact, the average age of my friends list is above 30. Still, quite regullary, I keep listening to my friends' distress calls for any help available, recovering from recent in-game abuse. And I'm talking people who went through the army or work as a medical staff at hospital, the sort of people whom you'd think they already got used to pretty uneasy stuff in their lives. But in Runescape, you are completely naked, stripped of any sensible means of retaliation or prevention. It makes people act accordingly: the rule breakers abusing the system to the greatest imaginable extent and the rest of the players getting used to the preemptive strike gaming - ignorance, denial, escape. Not myself, not any of my friends play with chats "on". Every single one of us has the private and ingame chat set on Friends or Off. In fact, just last week, I've met the author of this article ingame, but as much as I'd like to start a conversation, I've rather kept my ingame chat shut, given the fact that we've met in a rather unpleasant place to talk - Trawler - poluted with unbearable bickering of puberty-aged crowd.

Interestingly, the community rapid downhil started just after the Jagex's first children-targeted ads hit the market three years ago. The game's community degenerated to the extent that you can now spend several hours overhearing the conversations in any major populated area, without catching even one single coherent English sentence. If a person wants to sell something, he won't approach you and say something along the lines Hi, wanna buy dragon dagger? He just starts following you for no apparent reason and after a while starts spamming the chat Sell dd - Sell dd - Sell dd - Sell dd, spamming several minutes straight in one-second intervals. Such behavior became staple of most places.

Jagex made it very clear that they prefer the new blood, the youngsters over the veterans who were the ones to spread the word of mouth, who were the first to pay for the game, those who made Runescape going and allowed it to exist to its "glory". The game developer currently adopted several features that allow newcomers to gain experience and levels at a 10 times faster rate, introduced many ways to gain wealth without working, all just by a pure luck. Along with the dumbed down gameplay, the company tries hard to incorporate many means to nurse new high leveled players as quickly as possible to compensate for the rapid departure of the disgusted old-timer players.

A few minor notes:
Yes I'm Runescape player, although I do not care about levels anymore, just for the sake to shut any future childish arguments - yes, I'm very high leveled with a throughout knowledge of the game and its mechanics.

Charles, you might check this link before replying to some of the comments. It seems you have been "owned", "scored over", and apparently are "idiot" :?
 
Interesting to hear, and I have no idea why, but the fact is it was 2005 before Jagex caved to all of COPPA's demands. The 13+ was initiated due to the requirement to sign in private information into a business site. It was that or not be able to market in the United States, or at the very least face heavy fines, lawsuits and the press until they did.

Jagex wanted 13+ or older due to the fact that Most Children can read. Unless there disabled. Jagex did not want children under age of 13 to be in the game becuse they are easy to trick. There still at the age where doing stuff is still Govern by the Adult. Unless you get a druggy mom or dad who don't care.

You seid The 13+ was put in 2005. I look at all the Updates and guess what Nothing on coppa demands. Or Age change in the game. Why? Please go head and find the info on the game site. To help you use Main page click on the newest update and then click on one of All Categories. Which will have all the updates from the year 2002 That where all the rule changes from 2002 to now. But good luck you will not find anything. Why the rule age 13 been there from 2002 Runescape. So please next time do your Research.

Runescape forums is where we tried to talk about just these very things. The suggestions were ignored, all posts on luring are locked, any warning of scams are locked or hidden. When the topic of the book came up, Andrew said he had a hand in writing it. Being it came out in January, those posts are long gone. Why not ask about it yourself in forums? And once again may we ask you to do a google search as Amazon and Scholastic will both come up "The official runescape Handbook and strategy guide".

It was block due to the fact Runescape did not see it as Official runescape handbook. So they did not Indores the book. You seid January. I read the forums on Runescape and I did not see Andrew talk about the book. Would it not be on one of the Updates? Please research it. Any website or Book that deals with info from this company. have to go by this Rule. The site should not publish an article or text taken from the Jagex or RuneScape websites without permission. If you do use any text or images you must acknowledge runescape.com as the source, and link back to our site. Which I am guessing that what publisher did was ask jagex for permission.

Jagex official stance is that they do not advertise the game, that it is all word of mouth, so they do not wish to acknowledge the book.
They do not wish the general population in the game to know that they are marketing to age 8 and up. Now that they have rewritten the parent guide (wow this site has made a huge difference in the few days it has been here) they say it is for 13 +, yet market an official guide for Elementary School Children throuh North America. Maybe if the players knew that, there would be an outcry?

I think you mistaken the Writer of the book is the one that making it look like 8+ or older. With that seid It shows Jagex had no part in making of the book. Other then the writer use Runescape info to write the book Like Knowledge Base.

Jagex is a multimillion dollar company. The lawyers would have shut down sales 2 days after it was marketed and sued the author , Scholastic and anyone else involved. It is real. (sigh, please do the search rather then ask again, please? I tried to scan it but the scanner isn't working

The problem with Lawsuites is Laws in UK vs USA. UK it might be ok to write a book about games. Best to say Differnt country differnt Laws.

Please before you write again. use runescape knowlage base. It user friendly.
 
One part I did like reading in Knowlage base is this part.

Who is RuneScape targeted at?
RuneScape has been designed to be enjoyable for as wide a range of players as possible. In the beginning, Paul and Andrew created content that they thought their friends would find fun. Now RuneScape is developed by a larger team, but our basic aim is the same - to make the game we ourselves would want to play (i.e. our target audience is essentially ourselves, and people like us). Since we have a whole variety of very different types of gamers working here, we're trying to make something which appeals to a wide range of people. That of course includes avid gamers (which most of us are), but also casual gamers, and even people who have never played computer games before.

RuneScape isn't specifically targeted at kids and never has been. We do however have a lot of younger players, particularly as the game can be played for free, therefore it is one of our central missions to ensure the game also remains a safe environment for younger players to be. We take player safety extremely seriously and work with a number of organisations to help shape and guide our policies; see here. This parents section is intended to be part of that, and to be helpful to the parents of any younger players who wish to learn more about the game.

The difficulty of the gameplay itself is not shaped for younger players. A certain level of maturity is in fact really needed to play RuneScape to the full extent, as the game has some quite complex gameplay, puzzles and plots, which older players are more likely to appreciate. Finally, RuneScape is set in a traditional fantasy setting with the usual combat and conflict, so we only recommend the game for players aged 13+ (i.e. if you wouldn't want your kids to watch "Lord of the Rings", you probably wouldn't want them to play RuneScape).
 
Do you know what one of the first rules of creating an MMO is? To try and stop people cheating. The hundreds of companies in South Korea who 'gold farm' World Of Warcraft, becaues its so dammed profitable just shows you that even the biggest companies can't inforce every rule they have. It is simply not possible.

As a game for children under 13? No. Its not suitable. But how on Earth is that Jagex's fault? Are they expected to enforce every rule? To stop every scam? Yes, a better idea would be a not-so-instant sign up for the Premium accounts; a letter to the account holder, to inform him/her exactly what they have signed up for, the age restrictions, ect ect ect.

Let me give you another example; gamefaqs. A website with the same age restrictions. You think that everone there is above 13? The level of maturity on the posts shows you that they are definately not. And CNET can't enforce the rules 100%. Kids are still shown pornographic images via account suicides, disgusting language via censor bypasses and origonal accronyms and general bigitry via fake accounts. However I do not see you attacking them.

But it is my honest belief that children under 13 shouldn't be allowed to play MMO's that have such a broad target audience. Kids are kids. They try and screw each other over, impress their friends with their riches. That isn't Jagex's fault for not implementing a good ecenomy, it is a fact of life. You can't honestly use Jagex's poor implementation of an online game as an attack on their age restrictions.

Simply put. You have a problem with the internet. A few re-designed sentiments on Jagex's part and the site will be up to your standards. 90% of the internet isn't really suitable for a kid under 13. Why should Jagex change their game just because your children are trying to pull a fast one? Jack Thompson had the same sentiment; kids try and get away with things they shouldn't be allowed, and it is no ones fault other than the parents.
 
The person who wrote the bad thing about runescape did not view any of the other things. Which tell me they Lost something on the game so they pouted about it.

Questions on this.

Why did Charles M. Kozierok forget the ignore command on runescape if there trouble you can report and ignore? did he forget?

Why did Charles M. Kozierok did not post where most of the problems start when Teens or kids are on the game when school out and parents use the game as a baby sitter? Must be better then Taking walks and Riding a bike.

Why did Charles M. Kozierok forget to talk about the puzzles of the game and how fun they are vs Machineguns and Blood and gore of other Game?
Mybe he was thinking Blood and gore cooler?

What I think it comming down to it Charles M. Kozierok Died in Runescape and lost something that was high price and Pouting about it Then trying to make the game look bad? Let say Dragon Axe? Well Losing a Dragon Axe is better then Losing a Real Friend.

One Fact is. it only a game.

Here how I play. I use skills to help me even in real life. How many glass blowers do you know. Fact is I am a Real Glass blower, Wood engraver, glass engraver and Metal engraver. Guns, Knifes, swords and wood gun stocks. Oh not to forget a computer tech. But the game gives me ideas. I guess it the art that helps.

We have a game that can play on any Pentium computer very low income players and up and in my case High end Laptops.

This game is a great way to meet friends to learn about other people in differnt countrys. Also how they write. Like color or Colour or Armor or Armour.

Also The understanding of what been use in the Ages. Like Swords knifes Mace Battle axe. Which give Teens the willing to learn about History. Teens thinks history is in the past if you give them a reson to Look history in a new light.

It also give a person the understanding of Puzzles. So it give them a better understanding how to think things outs. Problem Solving.

This game also good to stop Stress. What better Kill Monsters to Kill real Person? Sorry a Monster or a person on the game better then taking a real life.

You know I rather have a kid pick up a mouse and kill a Person online or a Monster online then a real person in real life. I already lost a few people in real life. This was before runescape was out.

Let see a Real person Oh cool I killed a real person. Ops I am in prison for the rest of my life Not so cool surrounded by bars.

Game I killed someone online oh cool. I can keep playing and relax and put my stress in a game not on real people with real weapons.

That is why I am a skiller. If I want to fight I can. If I lose a black dragon hide armor it like Oh well I kill 6 black dragons and I get crafting exp. Or if I lose 20k in Herblore pots it like I kill a few druids get the herbs back and make them again.

What do I lose Nothing. What do I gain Exp.
 
One part I did like reading in Knowlage base is this part.

Who is RuneScape targeted at?

Really? you liked reading that? Excuse me Mr. Investigative reporter, but that is entirely new to the site, and was placed there at exactly the same time Charles said he was about to put truthscape up as a website. (a few days ago) Please do not profess to be so knowledgable that you read the Knowledgebase every day to find new articles.

And now that you have added that information, tell me why Jagex says they do not advertise, yet their affiliations with 3 game sites on the internet are gateways to Runescape. One is miniclip' which is a kiddie game site. The only official guide is marketed by a children's Elementary School distributor and authored by a child author and aimed at children 8 and up. You may contest and fret all you wish that the book exists, but the proof is in the Canadian flyer my son brought home and the one Charles has from his son's school. (Charles has made a copy of the US version on the front page of the second article...please go look!) And to repeat one last time available online from Amazon and

Thanks for bringing up the fact that updates on the front page are for changes and additions to the game and the site, including news, picture gallery , quests, mail, etc. Hidden updates are well known to be the way Jagex updates the game. Jagex incudes what it wishes, not what it should. As we said they would never let the general populace of Runescape know they are marketing the game to 8 year olds. If you believe the updates from Jagex are complete, why was the knowledge base update you just mentioned not on there? And furthermore, why was the update that luring was not reportable placed in the player killer forum, and not in the updates, or any other forums, or as an update to rule 2 in all of it's subsections of the rules?

Rather then continue to be disgusted with us for telling the truth about the 'Runescape Official Handbook and guide' being marketed to children, won't you please order a copy from amazon, and look in the front cover to see it is copyrighted by Jagex. What you read from Jagex is not the information you wish to hear, it is what they wish you to hear. (which is why these articles exist, should you not have noticed)

I have added some sites to save you any trouble in finding the information.

http://www.amazon.com/RuneScape-Official-Handbook-Tracey-West/dp/0439877725

http://www.blokeystuff.com.au/Product.php?bar=9780439877725

http://content.scholastic.com/browse/search.jsp
 
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