News Ryzen 7 5800X3D vs Core i7-12700K and Core i9-12900K Face-Off: The Rise of 3D V-Cache

[SunMaster]

Other than gaming a 3800x beats a 5775c every which way, but stays close in cpu bound gaming

Your 5775c would lose by even a larger margin to the 3800x than my 4790k in gaming.

The reason I even bothered to post was what came through as the idea that not even the Ryzen 3k series could have bested your wonderful Intel machine until you could get a fine new Intel machine 6 years later.

"I came from a Z97 that was as good as Ryzen 3000 even though it came out before AM4 "

It wasn't. Not by any stretch of imagination.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbmmw7/3800x_just_made_the_top_spot_on_single_thread/

 

[saltweaver]

Zen4 will make Alder lake irrelevant, Raptor lake will make Zen 4 irrelevant, etc.,.. Same song over and over. The best outcome would be if Tachyum comes as 3rd CPU competitor for the public. Then we would have better prices and products.

 

[KyaraM]

Considering that I play in 1440p with a significantly worse GPU than a 3090, as do most people, and do some programming and compiling at the side, the 5800X3D offers me exacly nothing over my 12700K. The second you want to do anything more than purely gaming, the 5800X3D loses a lot of traction and literally any other CPU costing 350 bucks and up is better, no matter if AMD or Intel. Also, as Hardware Unboxed showed, the 12900K, if measured over enough games, is extremely close to the 5800X3D, and the 12900KS most likely better. Meaning that the 12700K isn't far behind, considering it has nearly the same faming power as the 12900K. RAM speed also matters for all Intel CPUs, and the option for DDR5 RAM, even if you guys want to deny it, is a pretty big plus here. It's not as black and white as many seem to think. What are you guys even gloating about? To me, this is the worst overall price-performance chip out there, together with the 12900KS, considering that a cheaper CPU offer similar performance in games, vastly better performance in applications, and is cheaper.

Also, I wouldn't expect too many 3D cache chips going forward. It's too specialized to really make sense to bring out an entire line of them each gen, and likely too costly for what it does. I would expect maybe one per generation, maximum two, and that's it.

Zen4 will make Alder lake irrelevant, Raptor lake will make Zen 4 irrelevant, etc.,.. Same song over and over. The best outcome would be if Tachyum comes as 3rd CPU competitor for the public. Then we would have better prices and products.

Yes, that is correct. Sadly, people love tribalism. Simple truth is, both AMD and Intel make great CPUs that on par with each other. Both are constantly innovating and getting better. And both are big businesses that are not, as some love to pretend with AMD, close to the customer. The only ones they are there for are the investors and nobody else.

Also, I feel that irrelevant is a bit strong. For upgraders, maybe, but for those who already have them, well, they will be fine for a long time. And OEMs will offer them for at least two years in prebuilts as well. They often use the previous gens in their systems.

 

[rluker5]

Your 5775c would lose by even a larger margin to the 3800x than my 4790k in gaming.

The reason I even bothered to post was what came through as the idea that not even the Ryzen 3k series could have bested your wonderful Intel machine until you could get a fine new Intel machine 6 years later.

"I came from a Z97 that was as good as Ryzen 3000 even though it came out before AM4 "

It wasn't. Not by any stretch of imagination.

View: https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cbmmw7/3800x_just_made_the_top_spot_on_single_thread/

Passmark =/= gaming performance, Cinebench =/= gaming performance, Cpuz =/= gaming performance, gaming performance = gaming performance and how long the cpu waits for data makes a big difference. I also had a 4770k that can bench at 4.9 and game stable at 4.8 (now is in daughters pc) and it was no match for my 5775c at 4.2, even when the 4770k had that 32GB 2400c10 ram I mentioned earlier.

And this might be hard for you to believe, but the 5800X3D is faster than the 5800X in gaming even though it is clocked lower and does worse in single threaded passmark.

But if I had the option to go to the 3800X for the same price when I went to the 5775c (or even somewhat more) I would have. Z97 was starved for pcie lanes and ran out of steam in multithreaded. When I gamed I liked to close my browser, background tasks etc because I knew it made a difference even if that wasn't perceptible to me in games.

 

[saltweaver]

Technically speaking, if game is written to use more L3 cache, does CPU need less power and less load than in Turbo mode with less L3 cache?

 

[rluker5]

Technically speaking, if game is written to use more L3 cache, does CPU need less power and less load than in Turbo mode with less L3 cache?

Yes to both.
CPUs do speculative prediction while waiting which is often wasted. Less waiting on ram, less energy spent on speculative prediction.
Also the cpu load you see in task manager or HwInfo64 includes time spent waiting on ram.

I haven't heard of a direct comparison like this between the 5800X and 5800X3D, but I did one with my old 5775c and 4770k a couple years back with both at 4.0ghz, running W3 at 60 fps with same settings, ram and the 4770k showed about 50% use running through Novigrad and the 5775c showed about 30% use running the same path.

If someone has both Ryzen a similar test would be easy to replicate and monitor. Unfortunately most are only paying attention to the maximum framerate number right now. A cooler cpu under your use case is also a benefit.

Edit: Sorry I got that backwards. For the same fps, the less L3 means more power and load. Somehow I read your question as "less power and less load than A CPU with less L3 cache?"

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

What is considered "for the most part" ?

As you've pointed out with the graph, the 5800X 3D has a lead in the majority of games. Yes, I would agree it's not all games, hence 'for the most part'.

Intel releases a new gen every year...
They didn't have to just to take the gaming crown, they just released a new gen, it was good in gaming, so they advertised that as well as anything else because...why wouldn't they?!

I didn't say gen. I said platform. Rocket Lake couldn't get close enough to usurp Zen 3. Yes, Intel release a new 'Gen' each year, but the move to ADL with a CPU with P + E cores is a different platform. Different socket. Different manufacturing node.

Also, you're playing down if you believe that 'Best Gaming CPU' isn't a moniker that both Intel and AMD want as a feather in the cap. Often it's about bragging rights with the nomenclature, and both AMD and Intel push the marketing hard in that respect. Heck, practically every single review of these chips is titled along the lines of 'Best Gaming Chip', or 'Intel takes back the gaming crown' or whatever. To suggest, it's 'just' because they 'happen' to make a chip that's really good at gaming is misleading.

Is this directed towards me?!
I just said "Losing performance" you made up the 'huge drop' part.

When you quote your own text to prove a point, be sure to quote the full text for context

Losing performance in everything else plus increasing heat and loosing O/C

Losing performance in everything else plus increasing heat, and losing O/C seems pretty huge to me!

 

[gdmaclew]

You can immediately eliminate PCIe 5.0 as an advantage because there aren't any PCIe 5.0 perpherals yet and by the time there are, AMD will have it's own PCIe 5.0 solution.

 

[gdmaclew]

So 5800X3D is really a one trick pony.

Best at games, full stop, if you have something along the lines of a $1900 3090. The difference looks to be 5-10% with that GPU.

That's all it ever claimed to be - full stop.

 

[rluker5]

You can immediately eliminate PCIe 5.0 as an advantage because the aren't any PCIe 5.0 perpherals yet and by the time there are, AMD will have it's own PCIe 5.0 solution.

As long as nothing else goes over the pcie lanes this should be true. Streaming assets - Direct Storage and RTX I/O are both coming though. And it is true AMD is coming with PCIe 5.0 later this year. They might even use it for stuff like streaming assets. Or release gpus with 4 PCIe 5.0 lanes 😛

Longevity better than 6 months is kind of an advantage.

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Longevity better than 6 months is kind of an advantage.

You mean for AM4? No, no longevity there. At all!!! 2017-2022, that's not longevity?

 

[rluker5]

You mean for AM4? No, no longevity there. At all!!! 2017-2022, that's not longevity?

Is this the year 2017?

 

[Roland Of Gilead]

Is this the year 2017?

When Intel go more than a couple of generations of CPU with their mobo's, then come back for a chat!

 

[Makaveli]

As an IT tech we only utilize Intel, reliable and dependable work horses. AMD are for building toys.

lol as someone who has been doing IT for 25 years I would never hire you.

There is no time for fanboying brands in the workplace. Whatever a client chooses to use I will work with it because at the end of the day I like making money not cheerleading for corporations.

 

[SunMaster]

Is this the year 2017?

Perhaps the point he tried to make is that AM4 is a socket that has lasted 6 years. 6 years would in this context indicate longevity.

 

[rluker5]

Perhaps the point he tried to make is that AM4 is a socket that has lasted 6 years. 6 years would in this context indicate longevity.

In response to my point about how PCIe5 will have imminent benefits and it is better to have than not: his point wasn't relevant and seemed to be just some unrelated fanboyism. May as well have been "red is my favorite color so there!"

Some people keep motherboards for much longer than 6 years. My daughter is using a 9 year old one that is a capable enough platform for her pc (Z87 Deluxe, 4770k, 32GB 2400c10, ROG RAIDR pcie SSD, 950w power supply, everything except her Fury Nitro I bought in 2013) that any change with her 1080p60 monitor setup is literally a sidegrade at best. 4770k still does 60 fps and Nitro can do 1080p med.

Don't conflate useful longevity with "new cpu sales that fit the socket" longevity. The prior is what matters and the latter is merely a sales pitch. You can still buy new lga 1151 cpus. Doesn't mean you should. AM4 new cpu support will end in a few months and it is likely better to wait for AM5 unless you got suckered into buying one of the early Ryzen lemons and can't take it anymore.

AM4's future longevity (as you define it) is gone. Maybe AM5 will last a long time IDK, but as far as AM4, I hope you have good memories. It is no longer 2017 where you will be "futureproofing", it is 2022 where you will be "deadending".

 

[SunMaster]

In response to my point about how PCIe5 will have imminent benefits and it is better to have than not: his point wasn't relevant and seemed to be just some unrelated fanboyism. May as well have been "red is my favorite color so there!"

Some people keep motherboards for much longer than 6 years. My daughter is using a 9 year old one that is a capable enough platform for her pc (Z87 Deluxe, 4770k, 32GB 2400c10, ROG RAIDR pcie SSD, 950w power supply, everything except her Fury Nitro I bought in 2013) that any change with her 1080p60 monitor setup is literally a sidegrade at best. 4770k still does 60 fps and Nitro can do 1080p med.

Don't conflate useful longevity with "new cpu sales that fit the socket" longevity. The prior is what matters and the latter is merely a sales pitch. You can still buy new lga 1151 cpus. Doesn't mean you should. AM4 new cpu support will end in a few months and it is likely better to wait for AM5 unless you got suckered into buying one of the early Ryzen lemons and can't take it anymore.

AM4's future longevity (as you define it) is gone. Maybe AM5 will last a long time IDK, but as far as AM4, I hope you have good memories. It is no longer 2017 where you will be "futureproofing", it is 2022 where you will be "deadending".

I'm not sure you're pretending to be dense. or you actually are.

He is not talking about how long the motherboard will LAST, PHYSICALLY.

He is talking about how long AM4 has been the socket for the current CPUs. And, even if you don't seem to comprehend it, AMD still hasn't released a new socket for their current CPUs. They will, later this year. Whether you think noone ever should buy toys from AMD does not change that.

That is completely different from your daughters wonderful computer. I'm sure it could last another decade without breaking. It still won't have been Intels current socket for more than like 2.5 years.

 

[rluker5]

I'm not sure you're pretending to be dense. or you actually are.

He is not talking about how long the motherboard will LAST, PHYSICALLY.

He is talking about how long AM4 has been the socket for the current CPUs. And, even if you don't seem to comprehend it, AMD still hasn't released a new socket for their current CPUs. They will, later this year. Whether you think noone ever should buy toys from AMD does not change that.

That is completely different from your daughters wonderful computer. I'm sure it could last another decade without breaking. It still won't have been Intels current socket for more than like 2.5 years.

And my comment is about future longevity, that is longevity starting from now to when it ends, and not historical longevity. What does PCIe5 have to do with historical longevity? It was introduced last year. If you wait and get an AM5 you won't be looking to upgrade in 6 months after it comes out. Hence "Longevity better than 6 months is kind of an advantage. " It was a comment about future longevity. I'm not sure if you are pretending to be unable to look beyond the petty accomplishments of your idol or if you are.

AM4 will have no more cpu upgrades. It will not have PCIe5 or DDR5 or Zen4. Past longevity is good for memories. I remember 3 gens of hype that fell short and one cpu gen that was quite good. That's a socket with one good cpu generation. 25% success!

It will be easier when you can let go of AM4. You don't have to hold on to the hurt.

 

[gdmaclew]

AM4 has had a good long life for a socket generation and compared to Intel it's positively ages.

I upped my motherboard in Jan of 2020 finally after 6 years on AM3/AM3+.
I could only afford a 2700X at the time.
The next upgrade for me will be a Ryzen 5000 series because I have no interest in chucking my 2 year-old DDR4 RAM or in investing in a new motherboard.
The 5800 or 5900 will give me enough of a kick to last me another couple of years at least and possibly more.
I won't be "letting go" of AM4 for a while yet.

 

[VforV]

I'm not sure you're pretending to be dense. or you actually are.

BINGO! He actually is, he's not pretending.

This is why @rluker5 is now on my ignore list.
I don't have time to waste with individuals like him. He can play all day in the circle of his "friends", I could not care any less about his BS from now on.

 

[VegasSmitty]

lol as someone who has been doing IT for 25 years I would never hire you.

There is no time for fanboying brands in the workplace. Whatever a client chooses to use I will work with it because at the end of the day I like making money not cheerleading for corporations.

I started with IBM mainframes in the early 80's. I've forgotten more then you'll ever learn.

 

[VegasSmitty]

You've already flagged yourself then as being the worst one-dimensional "IT tech" in your profession if you can't understand, or acknowledge, how good tech can be from any given particular brand, at any particular time, to serve a particular need. Not sure if you're aware of this, but it's not exactly something to be proud of, being a fanboy.

I definitely am a Fan boy of Intels proven longterm technology. AMD toys, not so much

 

[drivinfast247]

I definitely am a Fan boy of Intels proven oldschool technology. AMD toys, not so much

FIFY

 

[gdmaclew]

I started with IBM mainframes in the early 80's. I've forgotten more then you'll ever learn.

Park your hubris.
I started with IBM mainframes in 1970 while you were probably in diapers.
Remember, there is always someone smarter than you.

 

[USAFRet]

OK people...a general warning to all and sundry:

No personal sniping. At all.
Further ventures down that road may not end up in your favor.

Deal?