[SOLVED] Ryzen 9 3900X with H115i Platinum

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
It's not the rear grill as such, but the area where the rad mounts to. It's designed to handle any aio from 120mm wide to 140mm wide at any length upto 420mm (3x140mm). In 2 or 3 different positions. Consequently there's Alot of mount back there for screws to attach and that creates obstruction. The fans you have are decent for blowing through that rad, the other fans suggested were more for forcing air past that obstruction. By offsetting the rad, there's now space behind it which allows some of that air to escape sideways and topways, which will allow better flow. Might not do much under maximum fan speeds when pressure from the fan is highest, but should do a bunch when fans are spinning slowly and don't have that much pressure.

There's a difference in programs. I'm betting the version of Prime95 you used, you did not check the 3 boxes for AVX technologies. AVX is an instruction set used by a few professionals programs, and very slightly in some physX applications in games, but not to any great extent. AVX, AVX2 and especially AVX-512 are brutal on a cpu, easily driving it to 130% load, but only registering it as 100%. So bios in many mobo's is set to automatically downclock the cpu 200MHz, and downgrade voltages, which keeps that 130% heat at 100% output.

For a more accurate usage of Prime95, use either version 26.6 or for newer versions hit the 3 AVX boxes and use small fft.

Cinebench doesn't use AVX that I know of so you'll get full bios output from the cpu.
Thanks for that info, i wasnt aware of AVX and such. I posted the pic with rad being offset from the case as you suggested :) But as my last post, the rads always cold, meaning there isnt much thermal transfer occurring. corsair said it seems like a bad pump and replace ASAP. They even sad we will send you a replacement unit first, once you install it then send the old one back this way you are always able to use the computer.

I will post any changes in result. ALSO i bought Grizzly Kryonaut, i guess apply that instead of the pre-applied one?
 
Reactions: RodroX

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Perfect. The rad is supposed to be cool. What many don't understand is that cpu temp is not coolant temp. Imagine putting water into a pan and sticking it on the stove. Even putting the burner on high, the water doesn't instantly get hot, but it is absorbing much of the heat from the burner anyways. If you ran that water through a radiator, and had fans blowing, it will never get to boil. So while the bottom of the pan might be seeing 1500w, the water is still barely over ambient temps. Your cpu puts out @ 200w in comparison, so coolant temp in a 23°C room is only going to see a max of about 35°-40° in that rad under stress. That's what you are cooling really, not cpu heat. With an aircooler, it's all metal. It's the pan without the water on the burner. Yes those get very hot.
 

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
Perfect. The rad is supposed to be cool. What many don't understand is that cpu temp is not coolant temp. Imagine putting water into a pan and sticking it on the stove. Even putting the burner on high, the water doesn't instantly get hot, but it is absorbing much of the heat from the burner anyways. If you ran that water through a radiator, and had fans blowing, it will never get to boil. So while the bottom of the pan might be seeing 1500w, the water is still barely over ambient temps. Your cpu puts out @ 200w in comparison, so coolant temp in a 23°C room is only going to see a max of about 35°-40° in that rad under stress. That's what you are cooling really, not cpu heat. With an aircooler, it's all metal. It's the pan without the water on the burner. Yes those get very hot.
Ah it does make sense, but iCue reporting temp is the cpu or coolant?

https://ibb.co/NrYCg6H

This is while Ryzen master showing 55C. Does that mean the AIO is fine and not require replacement? Corsair said differently lol... Now im legit confused.
 

Karadjgne

Titan
Herald
Dunno how you have it set, I believe default is cpu temp, my aio uses Cam and it's switchable to liquid/coolant temp.

With your ambient, open case, cpu should have idle temps barely over room temp, so Corsair might be right that there was an issue. But while an inconvenience, at least you got some relief that they are perfectly willing to do right by you and replace it. It's a loss for them in $ no matter how you spin it.
 

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
Dunno how you have it set, I believe default is cpu temp, my aio uses Cam and it's switchable to liquid/coolant temp.

With your ambient, open case, cpu should have idle temps barely over room temp, so Corsair might be right that there was an issue. But while an inconvenience, at least you got some relief that they are perfectly willing to do right by you and replace it. It's a loss for them in $ no matter how you spin it.
True. They said with 23-25C room temp your cpu should be low 30C idle and even light web browsing it should hover around max high 30s of low 40. When i said no, mine is 53C using youtube they said okay thats it we will send you a replacement.

I will put the new one with the thermal grizly and post all findings!
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Knowing the radiator itself, or either of the hoses, was cold, might have been something you'd think you'd want to share when people are trying to help solve a thermal issue. Not to be cranky, but dang, it's kind of important.
 
Reactions: zikmir

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
Knowing the radiator itself, or either of the hoses, was cold, might have been something you'd think you'd want to share when people are trying to help solve a thermal issue. Not to be cranky, but dang, it's kind of important.
I wish I had found out that earlier! My friend was the one who discovered that lol. As soon as I found out I called corsair and wrote it here. My new rad is arriving today, hopefully that makes a difference.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Hope so too. Like I said early on, even with the CPU you have, those temps are not normal. Especially the idle temps. Idle temps don't make much, or really ANY difference at all, as long as they are not particularly high. Once you start seeing 40°C or higher idle temps, especially if you don't have a fairly high ambient room temperature, it's a pretty good indicator that SOMETHING isn't working right. You should see a good improvement so let us know how it goes. I'd still keep the other suggestions in mind though because regardless, they are still valid concerns when it comes to the airflow and the arrangement of the fans. You'd do yourself a favor by just flipping those fans over OR moving them to the other side of the radiator AND flipping them over.
 

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
Guys! WE HAVE A WINNER! All along the true culprit was the AIO. As soon as i fired it up, DEAD 32C idle and max 64-66C in Cinebench while clockspeed hit 4077Mhz (Before it was kinda stuck to 3999 or something while hitting 70C)

One other change i also made as suggested by DarkBreeze is to check what port i was conencted on the mobo, as the instruction manual of AIO said use CPU_Fan, this time i went to CPU_OPT which in GIGABYTE's manual says for "Watercooling and Pump". Then i went to BIOS and set CPU_OPT to "Full Speed", Save and Exit. I do not see any major chance in iCue program, the pump is still similar speed but either way as the right conenctor in the mobo says and all suggestions say the same, i ofc now going to use it on that port.

My last question, may sound dumb but since Darkbreeze you suggest to change the fan orientation or placement, may i just add TWO MORE fans and sandwich the radiator? Instead of the risers, i can just put the same fans there or the brand you earlier suggested.

This way the colorful fans stay in front as is for aesthetics and the two new ones can do the sucking air through the obstruction. I'm imagining this:
https://ibb.co/thhGpCj

I recall you mentioned Noctua something, i know they dont have colors in them but it wont matter since they will be hidden behind the radiator where the risers are. Good bad?

Again thanks to all those who kept up on this topic.
 

RodroX

Upstanding
Aug 4, 2019
369
107
390
10
Glad you fixed it. So basically you got the same result as I did. When I changed my stock fan on the Ryzen 5 3600 with an Air Tower Cooler my temps went down a lot but also my boost frecuency went up.

So yeah theres probably an issue with the old pump, or on some part of the radiator, could be an obstruction.

As for the "fan sandwich" question, Im sure the more experience guys will answer you shortly.

For the moment, as I said earlier, the old temps were ok for your CPU (not saying they were ok for a huge AIO cooler like yours but for a Ryzen 3900X operation), so now the new temps looks even better (once again, the expert guys/girls) will tell you about improvements.

Cheers and enjoy!
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
CPU_FAN and CPU_OPT are the same for most boards. Some boards REQUIRE that there be a fan connected to CPU_FAN before CPU_OPT can be used. I would recommend that use CPU_FAN rather than CPU_OPT and that you adjust the fan curve or preset so that the CPU_OPT header running the pump is at full speed 100% at all times while turned on.

Some boards have a dedicated PUMP header or AIO_PUMP header, and when those are present it is wise to use that.

Even if you add two more fans for a push pull configuration, you would want to turn them the other way. I'll explain because I know you are not understanding the different between sucking air IN through those restrictions and trying to blow air OUT through them.

Pulling air in through a restriction works better than trying to push out through it. The best way I can explain this is with the string comparison.

Example. Get a piece of string about three feet long. Now, while holding one end, leave the other end on the ground and pull it. Works fine right? No problem. You can pull the string all day and it will simply follow wherever you go.

Now, take the same string and try to PUSH it. LOL. Yeah, doesn't really work does it?

While that is not a direct comparison to the aerodynamics of pushing or pulling through an orifice, it does give you an idea of how pushing and pulling can have different effects on the same media.

No matter how many fans you use, and no matter what side of the radiator they are on, you want them either pushing away from the orifice/restriction THROUGH the radiator and away from that case framework OR pulling through the radiator and blowing off into the open air. Plus if you go with a push pull configuration then a whole other set of factors come into play such as having fans on the pull side that have a higher CFM capability than the fans on the push side AND having fans on the push side that have a very good static pressure rating.

Honestly, if it's working now and the aesthetics are that important to you, then leave it like it is. If you want to get the most performance out of your cooler, then either leave the fans where they are but flip them so that they are blowing away from the radiator, or put them on the other side of the radiator blowing THROUGH it.
 

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
CPU_FAN and CPU_OPT are the same for most boards. Some boards REQUIRE that there be a fan connected to CPU_FAN before CPU_OPT can be used. I would recommend that use CPU_FAN rather than CPU_OPT and that you adjust the fan curve or preset so that the CPU_OPT header running the pump is at full speed 100% at all times while turned on.

Some boards have a dedicated PUMP header or AIO_PUMP header, and when those are present it is wise to use that.

Even if you add two more fans for a push pull configuration, you would want to turn them the other way. I'll explain because I know you are not understanding the different between sucking air IN through those restrictions and trying to blow air OUT through them.

Pulling air in through a restriction works better than trying to push out through it. The best way I can explain this is with the string comparison.

Example. Get a piece of string about three feet long. Now, while holding one end, leave the other end on the ground and pull it. Works fine right? No problem. You can pull the string all day and it will simply follow wherever you go.

Now, take the same string and try to PUSH it. LOL. Yeah, doesn't really work does it?

While that is not a direct comparison to the aerodynamics of pushing or pulling through an orifice, it does give you an idea of how pushing and pulling can have different effects on the same media.

No matter how many fans you use, and no matter what side of the radiator they are on, you want them either pushing away from the orifice/restriction THROUGH the radiator and away from that case framework OR pulling through the radiator and blowing off into the open air. Plus if you go with a push pull configuration then a whole other set of factors come into play such as having fans on the pull side that have a higher CFM capability than the fans on the push side AND having fans on the push side that have a very good static pressure rating.

Honestly, if it's working now and the aesthetics are that important to you, then leave it like it is. If you want to get the most performance out of your cooler, then either leave the fans where they are but flip them so that they are blowing away from the radiator, or put them on the other side of the radiator blowing THROUGH it.
Thanks for that and i think i kinda get what you mean. Instead of trying to blow air into the RAD (my current config) you want them to pull air through it which is same as pulling the string. As you said, lets keep them where they are since they look nice for now, i did look up the Noctua NF-A14. If i mount them behind the rad, this way wont they be "pulling" the air out of the rad and throw it behind the case? I drew a pic too lol.

https://ibb.co/vLptsMs

So the Corsair RGB fan are trying to push air into the rad which isnt optimal as you said, but the noctua are trying to "pull" air threw the rad as you suggested? Did i get that right? Im not sure if the noctua are stronger fans for enough pulling as you suggested... just my idea. Maybe all is wrong here you go ahead and correct me.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Blowing air into the radiator is fine. What you don't want to try to do is blow air into the radiator and THEN, ALSO, blow air through a couple of much smaller restricted holes in the panel of your case. If there was no panel, at all, on that side of the radiator, then what you have configured would be fine and would be exactly the same as if you flipped the fans over and moved them to the other side of the radiator.

SO, when your fans blow through the radiator the airflow becomes restricted, which is normal and expected. What is NOT expected and is not normal is that with the way you have them now, after the air passes through the radiator, instead of encountering no or little resistance, they are encountering another restriction in the form of those smaller openings on your case panel. That reduces airflow and cooling performance AND adds additional static pressure resistance to the fan blades that the fan motor is trying to turn which also results in unnecessary stress on the fan motor and is likely to somewhat reduce it's life expectancy if it is not a very high static pressure fan design.

If you added two additional fans, on the OTHER SIDE of the case panel, helping to suck air out of the space between the radiator and the case panel, that would work.

Flipping the fans over and moving them to the other side of the radiator so they are sucking air in through the holes on your side panel and blowing through the radiator into the open air case, would work.

Just flipping the fans over, where they are now, would also work.

But again, if you are getting good temps now and are happy with it, then fine. If you want to get as much performance and efficiency out of the configuration as you can, then one of the above configurations is probably better than what you have currently and you can trial and error several different configurations to figure out what works best for your specific arrangement.

In the picture you drew, both sets of fans would STILL be trying to PUSH through the restricted holes in the case, rather than any fan trying to pull air through it. Probably it would work better than the way it is now, but doing the same thing with the Noctua fans where the current fans are and the current fans on the other side of the case panel, would work better, because the Noctua fans are high static pressure and you want whatever fans have the higher static pressure doing all the pushing and any other fans doing the pulling, so long as the second set of fans are capable of moving more CFM than the fans doing the pushing otherwise all you are doing is creating an additional restriction for the fans that are trying to push.

Knowing the EXACT model of your current fans would help, because then we could look more closely at the specifications of those fans.
 

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
Blowing air into the radiator is fine. What you don't want to try to do is blow air into the radiator and THEN, ALSO, blow air through a couple of much smaller restricted holes in the panel of your case. If there was no panel, at all, on that side of the radiator, then what you have configured would be fine and would be exactly the same as if you flipped the fans over and moved them to the other side of the radiator.

SO, when your fans blow through the radiator the airflow becomes restricted, which is normal and expected. What is NOT expected and is not normal is that with the way you have them now, after the air passes through the radiator, instead of encountering no or little resistance, they are encountering another restriction in the form of those smaller openings on your case panel. That reduces airflow and cooling performance AND adds additional static pressure resistance to the fan blades that the fan motor is trying to turn which also results in unnecessary stress on the fan motor and is likely to somewhat reduce it's life expectancy if it is not a very high static pressure fan design.

If you added two additional fans, on the OTHER SIDE of the case panel, helping to suck air out of the space between the radiator and the case panel, that would work.

Flipping the fans over and moving them to the other side of the radiator so they are sucking air in through the holes on your side panel and blowing through the radiator into the open air case, would work.

Just flipping the fans over, where they are now, would also work.

But again, if you are getting good temps now and are happy with it, then fine. If you want to get as much performance and efficiency out of the configuration as you can, then one of the above configurations is probably better than what you have currently and you can trial and error several different configurations to figure out what works best for your specific arrangement.

In the picture you drew, both sets of fans would STILL be trying to PUSH through the restricted holes in the case, rather than any fan trying to pull air through it. Probably it would work better than the way it is now, but doing the same thing with the Noctua fans where the current fans are and the current fans on the other side of the case panel, would work better, because the Noctua fans are high static pressure and you want whatever fans have the higher static pressure doing all the pushing and any other fans doing the pulling, so long as the second set of fans are capable of moving more CFM than the fans doing the pushing otherwise all you are doing is creating an additional restriction for the fans that are trying to push.

Knowing the EXACT model of your current fans would help, because then we could look more closely at the specifications of those fans.
The exact model for the fans that came with this AIO are ML140PRO and specs are:

  • Fan Dimensions: 140mm x 25mm
  • Fan Speed: 2000 RPM
  • Fan Airflow: 97 CFM
  • Noise Level: 37 dBA
  • Fan Static Pressure: 3.0 mm-H2O
So in order for the push-pull what fans behind them would be ideal? Any model name of Noctua you have in mind? I will try to see if i can mount them BEHIND the grill as you suggested so they throw the heat outside the case and also try behind the rad and compare temps and post them here.
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
Those are good fans. Noisy as hell, but good.

Why don't you just TRY flipping the fans over and moving them to the other side of the radiator, at least temporarily, just to see how it affects your cooling performance. You don't have to leave them this way, but it worth looking at.


So, case panel where the two large holes are at for air to pass through on the right, fans to the left of that, radiator to the left of the fans and air coming through the holes in the case panel where everything mounts to, blowing through the radiator and into the open air inside the case. "Inside" is a bit of a misnomer since it's an open air case, but you get the idea.
 

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
Those are good fans. Noisy as hell, but good.

Why don't you just TRY flipping the fans over and moving them to the other side of the radiator, at least temporarily, just to see how it affects your cooling performance. You don't have to leave them this way, but it worth looking at.


So, case panel where the two large holes are at for air to pass through on the right, fans to the left of that, radiator to the left of the fans and air coming through the holes in the case panel where everything mounts to, blowing through the radiator and into the open air inside the case. "Inside" is a bit of a misnomer since it's an open air case, but you get the idea.
I tried flipping them and i got pretty similar temp, 2C lower at most cases but again im not 100% if thats just random or legit lower. When i ran cinabench it got 63-65C, kinda 2C lower in most runs. One run did give me 66C which was what was before i flipped. So overall i'd say 2C generally. I havnt tried the push/pull since i dont have extra 2 fans yet. I can ask a friend to lend me some 140mm fans, not sure what spec/rating they are honestly but if they make a difference what model would you suggest would be ideal? I'll take the Noctua even if they are ugly, just put them behind the rad or case.
 

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
I will try to put the ML fans to the original place cause of asthetics :p And behind the case and rad ill put the Noctua Fans. I will first try your suggestion to install the Noctua behind the case grill so they pull air through the obstruction. I will also try behind the rad only as well and see what difference it will make. Not sure which noctua model would work they have so many models.
 

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
If you're going to do that I'd just get another set of the same Maglev fans you already have and put them on the other side of the radiator pulling with the first set pushing.
Awesome! I found these and ordered them. They were on sale! These are the NON-RGB ones but i think it wont matter since they wont be visible.
https://www.amazon.ca/Corsair-Premium-Magnetic-Levitation-CO-9050045-WW/dp/B01G5I6MW0/ref=sr_1_1?gclid=CjwKCAjw5fzrBRASEiwAD2OSV_6PLCMthikd7GjXBkyMA9_4iLvBCT3T74sPonYVJwV8sV-lhXFfDRoCYVsQAvD_BwE&hvadid=208239094473&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9000144&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=3999116098359098349&hvtargid=aud-749198100220:kwd-324045355834&hydadcr=8363_9438569&keywords=ml140+pro&qid=1568627402&s=gateway&sr=8-1&th=1

My slight concern is how to connect them? I have two connectors left on the motherboard, is it safe to connect them directly or should i get some sort of fan controller? I have the CPU_FAN and CASE_FAN headers left on mother board.

https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-FH-10-Integrated-Occupying-Motherboard/dp/B077YHLDSP/ref=sr_1_3?crid=AR0ZEA4GU18W&keywords=fan+controller&qid=1568627745&smid=A1TG24VCRPTZ06&sprefix=fan+con,aps,178&sr=8-3
 

Darkbreeze

Titan
Moderator
So, looking at the specs for those fans again, it's the non-RGB fans that have 3mm static pressure. The RGB fans do not. They only have 1.27mm H20 static pressure. That's VERY low for a radiator fan. They also have very low CFM compared to the non-RGB fans, so I don't think they are going to work well regardless of the configuration if you are using them with the non-RGB fans, which are immensely better than the RGB version. The RGB version has only 54CFM while the non-RGB version has 97CFM. The RGB version has only 1.27mm H20 while the non-RGB version has 3.0mm. No matter where you put the RGB fans, they are going to limit the performance of the new fans.

They will work ok, with the RGB fans pushing through the radiator and the non-RGB pulling, as you had planned, but they are seriously wasting the performance of the non-RGB fans that way, especially the static pressure capabilities.

https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/RGB-&-LED-Fans/ml-pro-rgb-config/p/CO-9050077-WW#tab-tech-specs


https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/Magnetic-Levitation-Fans/ml-pro-config/p/CO-9050045-WW#tab-tech-specs
 
Last edited:
Reactions: zikmir

zikmir

Honorable
Jun 29, 2013
49
8
10,545
2
So, looking at the specs for those fans again, it's the non-RGB fans that have 3mm static pressure. The RGB fans do not. They only have 1.27mm H20 static pressure. That's VERY low for a radiator fan. They also have very low CFM compared to the non-RGB fans, so I don't think they are going to work well regardless of the configuration if you are using them with the non-RGB fans, which are immensely better than the RGB version. The RGB version has only 54CFM while the non-RGB version has 97CFM. The RGB version has only 1.27mm H20 while the non-RGB version has 3.0mm. No matter where you put the RGB fans, they are going to limit the performance of the new fans.

They will work ok, with the RGB fans pushing through the radiator and the non-RGB pulling, as you had planned, but they are seriously wasting the performance of the non-RGB fans that way, especially the static pressure capabilities.

https://www.corsair.com/eu/en/Categories/Products/Fans/RGB-&-LED-Fans/ml-pro-rgb-config/p/CO-9050077-WW#tab-tech-specs


https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Fans/Magnetic-Levitation-Fans/ml-pro-config/p/CO-9050045-WW#tab-tech-specs

So they arrived today and before i returned them i installed them behind the case, so totally outside so they are able to pull air through all the restrictions and the fancy fans can just push some air where they are current located. I found quite interesting results and thought i would share them with you.

So for testing, i kept the RGB fans on "Balanced Speed" as i have stayed consistent with all my testings. I put REAR ones on 800 rpm and ran the Cinebench, got same score, same turbo and similar 63-64C. Idle temps were similar as well.

You may ask why i kept them on 800 rpm and not higher, that i cause they are SO NOISY. Anything above exactly 800 you start hearing this annoying motor wine from both fans. (They do move ton of air but its un-bearably noise even at 1000 rpm)

For my second test i cranked both the front and rear on MAX and ran the Cinebench, i couldn't get passed 62C. For fun, i put cpu in PBO and wow, only 70C - 72 C and my Cinebench score was insane. Got 3157 in R15. But of course this sounds mad space shuttle lift off noise.

Now i know this IS NOT the setup you ideally recommended, but while aesthetics are important and temps are way below 70C with rear ones at 800 rpm, i have one final question and hope you can answer.

What if i got the slower RGB fans for the rear instead of these loud ones? Im not asking this cause of RGB lights but reason being the RGB are SO QUITE even on max speed they have more of a HUMMMM sound than the annoying high pitch wine these non-rgb ones make. Now since you mentioned the non-rgb are better in specs, if i ran them just 800 to avoid noise vs running the rgb ones at 1200 for similar noise, which one would be more beneficial?

Im guessing the non-rgb would still move more air at a lower speed than the rgb ones at higher speed?
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS