Question S0 Sleep State causes bluetooth audio stutter ?

[magrega]

Hi! I have an Asus Vivobook S 14 M3402RA laptop with an Intel AX210 WiFi/BT chip.
Laptop is running Windows 11 24H2 but I also tried Windows10.

I have a major issue. When my laptop enters sleep mode while bluetooth is on and playing music, it starts stuttering a bit, skipping audio from time to time.

I tried a tremendous number of different drivers and updates but it stays the same. The only things I could discover:

• If I disable AMD GPU driver in Device manager, the basic GPU driver comes into play and bluetooth stutter stops but I can't use an external monitor.
• If my AMD GPU drivers are activated any music that is played (both locally from hard drive or online, like from youtube) stutters but if I put on a twitch stream and lock my screen, the audio is fine.

It's somehow connected to how the laptop enters S0 sleep state which is impossible to turn off and go back to S3. Any Ideas would be appreciated

 

[Ralston18]

The issue may be "supported" sleep states....

Are you familar with the powercfg command?

You mentioned "S0" but no harm in asking.

FYI:

https://www.windowscentral.com/how-determine-power-sleep-states-supported-windows-10

Details matter.

= = = =

Overall, what I am curious about is why the laptop would be trying to enter/change sleep states while actively having Bluetooth on and playing music.

Simply seems contradictory.

What may be helpful is to look in Task Manager > Startup and likewise look in Task Scheduler.

Task Manager will provide information about what all is being launched at startup. Task Scheduler will provide information about other processes etc. that may be later triggered by some given set of laptop conditions.

Reliability History/Monitor and Event Viewer may also be logging some error codes, warnings, or even just informational events related to the laptop's change in power states - or attempt to do so.

The objective simply being to discover what is (or maybe what is not) happening.

Then look for applicable fixes - if any.

 

[johnbl]

oops, just noticed that you said you have the intel
Intel AX210. you might update the driver from
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/detect.html

or here https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/204836/intel-wifi-6e-ax210-gig/downloads.html
driver dated 12-17-2024

since it looks like the Bluetooth on this device goes through the usb interface. make sure that the bios is up to date, and the usb drivers are updated (chipset update). then make sure that the usb is not going to sleep. ie go to device manager, find the usb and find the option to tell the system to not put the usb to sleep.
and see if the problem persists.
specs for intel chip
System Interface Type
Wi-Fi(PCIe), BT(USB)

i think some of these drivers change the power output to the antenna when they change sleep states. This can result in bad connections depending on how far the speaker is to the Bluetooth on the machine. first step would be to update the driver, second step would be to use control panel, device manager to tell the system not to sleep the device and see if it has a effect.

----------------

you might go here and update the wifi connect firmware.
https://www.asus.com/laptops/for-ho...ivobook-S-14-OLED-M3402-AMD-Ryzen-6000-Series
the update firmware is dated 2023/06/01
then update the
Realtek WLAN Driver dated 2022/08/29
https://www.asus.com/laptops/for-ho...ivobook-S-14-OLED-M3402-AMD-Ryzen-6000-Series

note: run cmd.exe as an admin then run
powercfg.exe /energy
it will generate a report that you can look at with a browser.
it might detect problems
most fixes would be to update bios and drivers. Some devices might have to have firmware updates.

 

[magrega]

Overall, what I am curious about is why the laptop would be trying to enter/change sleep states while actively having Bluetooth on and playing music.

Simply seems contradictory.

This is what I get after powercfg /a.

Seems like my laptop doesnt support any other S state. There is nothing about sleep states in BIOS. TO be honest, available settings in BIOS are very meagre, there's not much to set.

As you can see from the screeshot it says S0 lower power idle Network connected. I think this is why it goes to sleep while trying to keep the connection with BT.

i think some of these drivers change the power output to the antenna when they change sleep states. This can result in bad connections depending on how far the speaker is to the Bluetooth on the machine. first step would be to update the driver, second step would be to use control panel, device manager to tell the system not to sleep the device and see if it has a effect.

I tried all of the available drivers from Windows Update Center, myAsus, Asus website and AMD website. Everything is up to date and everything is the latest version.
I tried every possible setting that controls the laptop going to sleep but whatever I do after the screen goes black the lags happen and on wake the laptop is locked.

It ignores every setting stopping it from going to sleep.

 

[johnbl]

your machine came out in April 2023, it should support the sleep states unless they are turned off or the wrong drivers are installed.

work around would be to set your system to run in high power mode and not ever sleep. better to fix the problem.

run cmd.exe as an admin then
run
powercfg.exe /energy
and look at the report with a browser.

you should also be able to use control panel, device manager, find the usb device that the blue tooth device is connected to and tell it to not go into low power state.

control panel, device manager, find the usb hub, expand it, right click to bring up properties, find the power management tab and uncheck the option to allow the computer to turn off this device to save power.

 

[magrega]

your machine came out in April 2023, it should support the sleep states unless they are turned off or the wrong drivers are installed.

Nah, it came out earlier. I bought it in February 2023. Just for the record.

I created the report but I don't know how to read it. I've enclosed a link to it. If that's okay with you maybe you'll help clarify.

In device manager I have a Universal Serial Bus controllers tree. Under it the list goes like this:

AMD USB 2.0 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.20 (Microsoft)
AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.20 (Microsoft)
AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.20 (Microsoft)
AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.20 (Microsoft)
AMD USB 3.10 eXtensible Host Controller - 1.20 (Microsoft)
USB Composite Device
USB Root Hub (UBS 3.0)
USB Root Hub (UBS 3.0)
USB Root Hub (UBS 3.0)
USB Root Hub (UBS 3.0)
USB Root Hub (UBS 3.0)

I've unticked Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power in all of them where was available. I think I did this before but I'll entertain you. After unticking everything and pressing Ok, I locked the screen with Win + L. There was a single quick crackle right after the screen turned off but I'd like to test it a bit. Seems a bit different now.

I also removed this tick from AMD GPIO Controller, AMD Audio CoProcessor, I2C HID Device.

 

[magrega]

control panel, device manager, find the usb hub, expand it, right click to bring up properties, find the power management tab and uncheck the option to allow the computer to turn off this device to save power.

Unfortunately, it didn't help. At first it felt like it was a bit different but I guess that was just a variation.

 

[Ralston18]

Report: The link you provided is just the supporting HTML code.

Go to where the file is stored and open the .html file using a browser.

FYI:

file:///C:/Windows/System32/energy-report.html

The file should become readable.

Take screenshots and post the screenshots instead of a link.

 

[magrega]

1. Screenshot
2. Screenshot
3. Screenshot
4. Screenshot
5. Screenshot
6. Screenshot
7. Screenshot
8. Screenshot
9. Screenshot
10. Screenshot
11. Screenshot
12. Screenshot

Phew, that was unexpectedly complicated. This is a new report. FYI you can download the file via previous link on your disk and open it in your browser and it will work. I am guessing it's for security reasons though.

Right now I have 304 bios from M5402RA. It was a desperate measure which didn't pay off in any way. Answering before hand i can say that having the latest 306 bios for my laptop doesn't change absolutely anything. Been there, tried that. But I will revert back to the original 306 bios in a couple of days.

 

[Ralston18]

Stated problem from Post #1

"I have a major issue. When my laptop enters sleep mode while bluetooth is on and playing music, it starts stuttering a bit, skipping audio from time to time."

From the report.

Screenshots 1, 2, 3, and 4 are revealing.

For example:

Screenshot 1 reports five immediate errors.

Screenshot 2 includes four warnings: One warning references Microsoft Edge (timer) and the other three involve the CPU.

Screenshot 3 references a default platform timer resolution that should be used whenever the system is idle. If that timer resolution is increased then "power management technologies may not be effective". Which, in my mind, could likely mean that somethings will not work or properly work.

I noted more references to Microsoft Edge and then two further Warning references to power plans: OEM (Balanced) and On Battery; Personality = Balanced.

Screenshot 4 presents more information about Power Policy with respect to being plugged in or on battery, using Radio Power, and Video Quality.

Note that Sleepstates S1, S2, and S3, are not supported (Sleep Supported false)

S4 being supported per the report.

plus

Connected Standby Supported true

= = = =

Are you using a browser app to listen to music? Two of the errors involve Microsoft Edge and one involves Bluethooth wireless.....

What I think is happening is that the laptop, correctly or incorrectly, is trying to enter or change sleep states. Either the laptop as a whole and/or for some component. Contradictory requirements.

Problematic especially if the Sleep state or some relevant configuration setting is wrong or not supported.

= = = =

The first objective (if possible) is to get the wireless music to play without stuttering and skipping audio.

My suggestions. (There may be other suggestions as well.)

Open the report using a browser and print the report out for reference purposes. Or at least Screenshots 1 - 4.

Then disable all power saving.

Run "dism" and "sfc /scannow" to find and fix any corrupted files.

Once that is accomplished run and print the report again.

You can then do two things: 1) compare the reports for differences, and 2, use the second report to attempt controlled power saving for the laptop. Primarily while on battery. Determine what you can change and to what settings/options/values.

If the report includes errors and warnings then they will need to be addressed if and as applicable or possible.

Change only one thing at a time and allow time between changes.

Listen to music via wireless bluetooth as you usually do.

Test Microsoft Edge but try another browser or two as well....

 

[johnbl]

you might install a chrome 64 bit browser and see how it works.
just in case it is a problem with edge and the 32 bit subsystem.

I find edge now locks up on my machine about once a day. I have to terminate process on it and restart. (locks up when streaming Nasdaq real time quotes)

 

[magrega]

Are you using a browser app to listen to music? Two of the errors involve Microsoft Edge and one involves Bluethooth wireless.....

Yes, since I am reinstalling Windows twice a day I began using msedge for audio testing. I generally use Chrome and tried Firefox as well as playing audio files locally. It's all the same. Moreover, even if I use external usb bluetooth dongle, there are still lags.

The first objective (if possible) is to get the wireless music to play without stuttering and skipping audio.

Usually there's no problem playing audio with bluetooth while the laptop is awake. I'll do a clean install again to make sure and rerun the report again. Though I notice that those errors only occur while the music is playing. If I just restart the system and make a new report there will be no errors regarding bluetooth or msedge.

You can then do two things: 1) compare the reports for differences, and 2, use the second report to attempt controlled power saving for the laptop. Primarily while on battery. Determine what you can change and to what settings/options/values.

Mostly I did all of this, every power saving there is I turned it off at some point. But I'll do it again.

 

[magrega]

A small note: sometimes during installation or deinstallation of amd drivers, be it chipset or GPU ones, system freezes until hard reboot.

What I did: revert to amd chipset and gpu drivers from manufacturer website. Went to Device Manager and returned all the ticks Allowing to put usb devices to sleep mode. Clicked on bluetooth device, chose tree view, went through all the devices that link to bluetooth and unticked Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power on every device where available. Also I went to settings app => bluetooth and devices => usb => turned off power saving. In power and battery I set Best performane and turned off batery saver.

In beetween I formed energy reports which didn't really show anything. If bluetooth is connected and music is on, there are red errors about msedge and bluetooth, if the browser is closed and bt is off, there's no errors then.

The only new observation I did is that there is absolutely no setting for Connected standby in windows altogether. Whatever you do, any setting regarding sleep is ignored.
I've set When to go to sleep while plugged in to Never, but anytime screen turns off after inactivity the laptop goes into low power idle as well as right after locking the screen.

Actually. A funny thing. My power button is now set to put the laptop to sleep. I think it was the first time I had the idea to press it. The laptop went to sleep and stopped playing music. After I woke it up the music was on pause.

So whatever happens after idle or locksreen is not sleep, I guess?

 

[Ralston18]

In Device Manager > View ensure that "Show hidden devices" is checked.

= = = =

Since you have made some changes go into Reliability History/Monitor and Event Viewer again.

There may be some new entries because of the changes and subsequent results.

Look for patterns.

Event Viewer takes a bit more time and effort to navigate and understand.

To help:

How To - How to use Windows 10 Event Viewer | Tom's Hardware Forum (tomshardware.com)

Just browse throught the various logs. Clicking the arrow > icons opens up more logs and views.

Watch for "msedge", "bluetooth", "sleep", or other words relevant to the audio problems.

Use Find to look for keywords as well.

 

[magrega]

Okay, got some time to play around with Event Viewer. I put down the time when I started testing, marked down all the times when there was an interruption and when I finished testing.

12:00:00 - I started testing, locked the screen
12:00:56 - first interruption, screen is off
12:01:06 - second interruption, screen is off
12:01:36 - third interruption, screen is off
12:02:37 - 4th interruption, screen is off
12:05:22 - 5thinterruption, screen is on
12:05:50 - 6th interruption, screen is on

I noticed that after coming out of the locked screen bluetooth keeps interrupting for some time but after a while starts to work normally, probably after a track changes or if paused and resumed.

Then I went to event viewer and filtered all the events in the time range between the time of start and the 6th interruption.

There wasn't anything revealing. Mostly background work like fetching data from Windows Store and maintenance state changes.

I did this kind of test three times. Each time event viewer had different messages, I couldn't see a pattern that would suggest why interruptions happen.

I've enclosed a sample of my event viewer tethered to the time I specified above, if there's anybody willing to take a look.

Link.

Here are some random event viewer entries related to wifi, bluetooth or power that I found worth noticing.

 

[alceryes]

Not sure if it's related, but there are several reports of the latest Windows updates breaking Bluetooth devices, audio devices, and webcams. KB5050009 (24H2) and KB5050021 (23H2) have been called out so far, but there may be others.

Just two of the articles discussing the issue -
https://www.pcworld.com/article/258...-breaks-audio-bluetooth-webcams-and-more.html

I'm absolutely sick of Microsoft's Windows 11 24H2 update, as it's now causing Bluetooth and webcam issues

Microsoft, enough is enough...

www.techradar.com

 

[magrega]

I've installed KB5050009 (24H2) yesterday. Didn't change a thing. There was also an optional driver for .net which I also installed. Unfortunately, nothing ever even changed the pattern of bluetooth lags. I am starting to think there's something wrong with the processor, a possible hardware problem. Even thoug it baffles me that the second I disable a gpu driver everything works fine

 

[Ralston18]

Any failed or problem updates listed in Windows History?

Just as a matter of elimination try the following:

1) Look in Reliability History/Monitor using the "Day" view. Look patterns in the reported errrors, warnings, and informational event.

2) Run the built in Windows troubleshooters. The troubleshooters may find and fix something.

3) Run "dism" and "sfc /scannow".

Those USB "Surprise removals" are interesting.

What USB devices, if any, are connected to the laptop and how are they connected?

Lastly: "Even thoug it baffles me that the second I disable a gpu driver everything works fine."

Another question: which/what gpu driver?

 

[magrega]

Any failed or problem updates listed in Windows History?

Not that I noticed.

1) Look in Reliability History/Monitor using the "Day" view. Look patterns in the reported errrors, warnings, and informational event.

That's the next thing I did after tinkering around with Events viewer. Couldn't see anything suspicious.

2) Run the built in Windows troubleshooters. The troubleshooters may find and fix something.

Yeah, I ran all of them.

3) Run "dism" and "sfc /scannow".

It was a recommendation on one of the previous forums where I posted. Did that multiple times.

What USB devices, if any, are connected to the laptop and how are they connected?

I connected only a chinese BT mouse with a USB bluetooth dongle. But since I am testing the laptop constantly now I don't hav anything connected to it. I connect only JBL GO 3 BT speaker when I test audio.

Another question: which/what gpu driver?

My laptop has Ryzen 7 6800H cpu which uses AMD Graphic Drivers.


Also.
The thing I didn't bring up earlier is that this laptop has another issue. The startup sometimes takes a lot of time. If the device is plugged in after a power button press it can take up to 20 seconds before I'll see the manufacturer screen before OS load. If the laptop work from battery then it can turn off right after turning on and usually it takes 3 times to press the power button before the laptop starts booting up.

I took my laptop to a specialist and he written a bios from 5402 laptop and the boot issue went away which is a workaround and it didn't help with the bluetooth.

Also.
I've managed to find another person with this laptop. We even bought it at approximately the same time, in the first half of 2023. He reports the same problems. I tried contacting ASUS but since my warranty is long expired they didn't even reply back after requiring my serial number.

Next step. I want to try installing a fresh win11 copy with updates disabled right off the bat and try installing the drivers from the asus website. I avoided doing this befeore because I believe in constant software improvement and I prefer receiving all the latest updates but since this laptop is an absolute production monstrosity I don't really have much choice. At least for testing's sake.

Spoiler: Offtop

Asus is an absolutely atrocious company jesus christ.

 

[magrega]

Actually. I just looked into reliability histrory after bringing my laptop back from repair center. There's this.

 

[Ralston18]

May have been the result of something the repair center did....

Did the repair center do any checks on power and battery?

 

[magrega]

Did the repair center do any checks on power and battery?

Yeah, I've been to different places more than a dozen times now. There was never anything wrong with power. I even started the laptop with a disconnected battery just to see what happens. Didn't change a thing.

Now it really seems like a defect or poorly written bios firmware since a bios from another computer fixes stuff.

 

[magrega]

Next step. I want to try installing a fresh win11 copy with updates disabled right off the bat and try installing the drivers from the asus website. I avoided doing this befeore because I believe in constant software improvement and I prefer receiving all the latest updates but since this laptop is an absolute production monstrosity I don't really have much choice. At least for testing's sake.

Did this today. No effect. Installed MSDN iso from October 2024 and drivers from ASUS website.