Scrolls/potions and bags

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6/3/05 11:49 PM, Seraphim wrote:
> chuck <chucko@nil.car> wrote

>>Wrong, wrong, wrong. You WILL encounter (esp. in the mines) when you
>>carry a bag/sack with money in it: ...magical explosion your body
>>absorbs some of the explosion and your bag/sack and everything in it
>>dissapear.
>
>
> Your explanation still doesn't explain what you are talking about.
>
> You can get a "You are caught in a magical explosion!" message followed
> by the "Your body absorbs some of the magical energy!" message from a
> magic trap (1/30 chance) but they have nothing to do with invisible
> stalkers, sacks, gold, or bags of holding. You can also get a "You are
> blasted by a magical explosion!" message if you put one of a few bad
> things into your Bag of Holding, which will destroy the bag and
> everything in it, but this has nothing to do invisible stalkers, sacks,
> gold, or absorbing magical energy.

I think this argument boils down to a syllogism:

1) chuck is never wrong;
2) no one else has ever observed the data that chuck is reporting, and
a reading of the source does not support what he says; therefore
3) everyone else's observations are wrong, and everyone else is
misreading the source.

Perhaps there's a spoiler out there which, when *properly* understood,
accounts for this behavior, independently from what the source says.

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:
> Wrong, wrong, wrong. You WILL encounter (esp. in the mines) when you carry a
> bag/sack with money in it: ...magical explosion your body absorbs some of the
> explosion and your bag/sack and everything in it dissapear.

"Wrong, wrong, wrong," my ass. I can quote source code to prove
everything I said (the relevant bit is mbag_explodes(), in pickup.c). On
the other hand, both your original claim and your new, different claim,
are wrong.

Magic traps do occasionally explode, and you will absorb magical
energy from that. That does not, however, affect your bag or its
contents in any way whatsoever. It's irrelevant whether the bag has
money in it or not. And this has, again, nothing at all to do with
invisible stalkers.

(And the proof is in the function dotrap(), the relevant section
of which starts on line 1058 of trap.c.)

--
John Campbell
jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
> And a fixed potion of water would be unable to rust something else,
> as well.

Reading this, my mind was wandering... And I asked myself, why would
some metal rust at all immediately(!) after contact with water. Yet
another "Nethack reality". Even acid won't facilitate metal to corrode
that fast. (No, I am not arguing, rust traps should drop acid instead
of water ;-). But would a sane character really drink from fountains
and pools if this kind of water is able to damage even metal?
OTOH, it might be some interaction with the atmosphere in the dungeon.
But that would be even worse for the character.
(Umm... - I better stop now.)

Janis

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John Campbell <jcampbel@lynn.ci-n.com> wrote in
news:wdjoe.1164$ld3.242@trnddc04:

> chuck wrote:
>> Wrong, wrong, wrong. You WILL encounter (esp. in the mines) when you
carry a
>> bag/sack with money in it: ...magical explosion your body absorbs some of
the
>> explosion and your bag/sack and everything in it dissapear.
>
> "Wrong, wrong, wrong," my ass. I can quote source code to prove
> everything I said (the relevant bit is mbag_explodes(), in pickup.c). On
> the other hand, both your original claim and your new, different claim,
> are wrong.
>
> Magic traps do occasionally explode, and you will absorb magical
> energy from that. That does not, however, affect your bag or its
> contents in any way whatsoever. It's irrelevant whether the bag has
> money in it or not. And this has, again, nothing at all to do with
> invisible stalkers.
>
> (And the proof is in the function dotrap(), the relevant section
> of which starts on line 1058 of trap.c.)
>
Well, that's the first CONSTRUCTIVE argument I've gotten so far. Took bloody
long enough. I will check the source. BTW I am running vanilla 3.3.1 obtained
by way of freshmeat.net compiled under gcc 2.95; a system with which I have
suscessfully compiled ALL of KDE 3.1, along with several versions of X
cleanly so there is no problems there. There MIGHT be another reason why
these bags explode, but it never seems to happen when I don't put money in
it. What are the few things that will do it so I can confirm that something
screwy is/n't going on?

 

[Chuck]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

> You can get a "You are caught in a magical explosion!" message followed
> by the "Your body absorbs some of the magical energy!" message from a
> magic trap (1/30 chance) but they have nothing to do with invisible
> stalkers, sacks, gold, or bags of holding. You can also get a "You are
> blasted by a magical explosion!" message if you put one of a few bad
> things into your Bag of Holding, which will destroy the bag and
> everything in it, but this has nothing to do invisible stalkers, sacks,
> gold, or absorbing magical energy.
>
Then what in the game is the rational? and as I asked in another message
first due to the way IT was written what are these items?

 

[seraphim]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck <chucko@nil.car> wrote in
news:Xns966BBB81B900Dchuckonilcar@207.35.177.135:

>
>> You can get a "You are caught in a magical explosion!" message
>> followed by the "Your body absorbs some of the magical energy!"
>> message from a magic trap (1/30 chance) but they have nothing to do
>> with invisible stalkers, sacks, gold, or bags of holding. You can
>> also get a "You are blasted by a magical explosion!" message if you
>> put one of a few bad things into your Bag of Holding, which will
>> destroy the bag and everything in it, but this has nothing to do
>> invisible stalkers, sacks, gold, or absorbing magical energy.
>
> Then what in the game is the rational? and as I asked in another
> message first due to the way IT was written what are these items?

I assume you mean what are the items that will make a BoH explode if they
are put into the BoH?
The items are a wand of cancellation with a non-zero number of charges, a
bag of tricks with a non-zero number of charges, or another bag of
holding.

As far as I understand the rational is like this:
The inside of a BoH or BoT exists partially outside "normal" reality, and
that if two of these abnormal-realities meet, or if one meets a wand of
cancellation then they cancel out.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

John Campbell wrote:
> chuck wrote:

>> Wrong, wrong, wrong.
> "Wrong, wrong, wrong," my ass.

Will you people please stop responding to chuck?

I put him in my killfile months ago, just because he constantly refuses
to admit when he's wrong, and that happens more often than not.

By responding to him, I *still* get to see his idiotic posts.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dan Sommers wrote:
> "Boudewijn Waijers" wrote:
>> Walter D. Pullen wrote:

>>> For example wish for "3 blessed fireproof scrolls of charging" or "3
>>> fixed potions of holy water".

>> And a fixed potion of water would be unable to rust something else,
>> as well.

> Does that mean that a fixed potion of holy water would be unable to
> bless something else? That would certainly balance the advantage of
> carrying around fixed holy water; now all we need is a method of
> unfixing potions....

No. This would only go for uncursed potions, since something "fixed"
would want nothing to do with rust and corrosion. Blessed or cursed
water does not rust items in the first place.

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

chuck wrote:
> John Campbell wrote:
> > chuck wrote:
>
> > > Wrong, wrong, wrong. You WILL encounter (esp. in
> > > the mines) when you carry a bag/sack with money in
> > > it: ...magical explosion your body absorbs some of
> > > the explosion and your bag/sack and everything in
> > > it dissapear.
>
> > "Wrong, wrong, wrong," my ass. I can quote source code to prove
> > everything I said (the relevant bit is mbag_explodes(), in pickup.c). On
> > the other hand, both your original claim and your new, different claim,
> > are wrong.
>
> > Magic traps do occasionally explode, and you will absorb magical
> > energy from that. That does not, however, affect your bag or its
> > contents in any way whatsoever. It's irrelevant whether the bag has
> > money in it or not. And this has, again, nothing at all to do with
> > invisible stalkers.
>
> > (And the proof is in the function dotrap(), the relevant section
> > of which starts on line 1058 of trap.c.)
>
> Well, that's the first CONSTRUCTIVE argument I've gotten so far.

No, you've been blowing off folks whjo gave good advice.

Magic traps have a list of effects that include a magical
explosion. It happens with no regard to what you are
carrying. Bags of holding will explode if you put a wand
of cancellation in them, with no regard to what's already
in them. Folks carry a sack or oilskin to keep their
cancellation in for this reason.

> BTW I am running vanilla 3.3.1 obtained

There may have been a version long ago that guaranteed a
magic trap in the mines, but now there are just a bunch of
random traps in the mines. More traps, higher chance of
one of them being a magic trap.

> There MIGHT be another reason why
> these bags explode, but it never seems to happen when I don't put money in
> it. What are the few things that will do it so I can confirm that something
> screwy is/n't going on?

Might equals IS in this case. Money in the sack is of
zero relevance.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Kevin Wayne wrote:

> On the very slight chance that chuck will bother listening, it's
> worthwhile to note (what I'm sure you already know) that it's also *not
> safe* to put a sack or oilskin containing one of the three dangerous
> items into the bag of holding.
>
> For *that* reason, many of us either don't carry wands of cancellation
> at all, or carry them purposely in main inventory so we don't make that
> mistake. I personally also find it helpful to individually #name them
> "DANGER!!!!!"

I usually carry my wands of cancellation in an ordinary/oilskin sack, along
with a couple ?oRC and !oHW. I've accidently put wands in my BoH when they
were in my main inventory, but I've never accidentally put my emergency
sack in my BoH. This is probably because I transfer large quantities of
wands around frequently, but I usually only move one tool at a time.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On 6/5/05 10:45 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:

> No, you've been blowing off folks who gave good advice.
>
> Magic traps have a list of effects that include a magical
> explosion. It happens with no regard to what you are
> carrying. Bags of holding will explode if you put a wand
> of cancellation in them, with no regard to what's already
> in them. Folks carry a sack or oilskin to keep their
> cancellation in for this reason.

On the very slight chance that chuck will bother listening, it's
worthwhile to note (what I'm sure you already know) that it's also *not
safe* to put a sack or oilskin containing one of the three dangerous
items into the bag of holding.

For *that* reason, many of us either don't carry wands of cancellation
at all, or carry them purposely in main inventory so we don't make that
mistake. I personally also find it helpful to individually #name them
"DANGER!!!!!"

--
Kevin Wayne

"Art is a tremendous means by which painfully guarded individuals bare
their souls." --Steve Hindalong

 

[James]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <yy7opsuzjwa9.fsf@css.css.sfu.ca>,
Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> wrote:

>I usually carry my wands of cancellation in an ordinary/oilskin sack, along
>with a couple ?oRC and !oHW. I've accidently put wands in my BoH when they
>were in my main inventory, but I've never accidentally put my emergency
>sack in my BoH. This is probably because I transfer large quantities of
>wands around frequently, but I usually only move one tool at a time.

I like to carry my BoH in an oilskin sack, to keep it blessed and dry.
That's a pretty rare, late game deal. My first ascension, or maybe my
first trip to the planes, can't remember, I went amphibious to the plane
of water (I had planned it.)

But I'll never put any bag in a BoH. I don't care what the bag doesn't
contain. Well, my current game might yield enough extra bags and sacks
to do the extra stash to astral trick with nesting, but I'll cross that
bridge when I come to it.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Boudewijn Waijers wrote on Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:48:49 +0200:
> John Campbell wrote:
> > chuck wrote:
>
> >> Wrong, wrong, wrong.
> > "Wrong, wrong, wrong," my ass.
>
> Will you people please stop responding to chuck?
>
> I put him in my killfile months ago, just because he constantly refuses
> to admit when he's wrong, and that happens more often than not.
>
> By responding to him, I *still* get to see his idiotic posts.

I agree (!) with Boudewijn on this. Replying to the obvious morons isn't
very different from feeding trolls.


--
"Sometimes I stand by the door and look into the darkness. Then I
am reminded how dearly I cherish my boredom, and what a precious
commodity is so much misery." -- Jack Vance

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis wrote:

>> For *that* reason, many of us either don't carry wands of
>> cancellation at all, or carry them purposely in main inventory so we
>> don't make that mistake.

> I usually carry my wands of cancellation in an ordinary/oilskin sack,
> along with a couple ?oRC and !oHW.

If you're *really* paranoid about making a mistake, and you don't have
to carry them over long distances, I guess the only safe way is to put
them in a box, and carry that box. You cannot put a box in a sack, so
the danger is gone (or am I missing something?).

--
Boudewijn Waijers (kroisos at home.nl).

The garden of happiness is surrounded by a wall so low only children
can look over it. - "the Orphanage of Hits", former Dutch radio show.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Rast <rast2@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:MPG.1d0ee8633d51d08d98a352@216.168.3.44:

> Boudewijn Waijers wrote on Sun, 5 Jun 2005 01:48:49 +0200:
>> Will you people please stop responding to chuck?
>>
>> I put him in my killfile months ago, just because he constantly
>> refuses to admit when he's wrong, and that happens more often than
>> not.
>>
>> By responding to him, I *still* get to see his idiotic posts.
>
> I agree (!) with Boudewijn on this. Replying to the obvious morons
> isn't very different from feeding trolls.
>
>

Well, in this case, I think everyone who replied was wondering just what
the heck he was talking about.