Second Take: The PC Gaming Slump

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Well, i'll tell you what happens here in Brazil.
Few people play games on PC. The main reasons are:
1- People don't know how to buy a decent PC. They think that you have to pay $2500 for a system that runs games on high settings, and upgrade it every 6 months or so. The problem is bigger here because a 8800GT costs at least $500.
2- Some people think that PC only have FPS and RTS games. Also, there's the lack of japanese games on PC.
3- People to play games on their TVs with joypads rather then sit on a chair with a keyboard and mouse.
4- Piracy is a huge problem here. Very few people buy games.

What I think that could be done is:
1- Not much can be done about that really. Maybe a more casual-gamer-friendly OS.
2- More variety of PC games.
3- That's their opinions so nothing can be done about that.
4- Better anti-piracy system. I think what Valve do with Steam is a good start.

One more thing: Where are the PC exclusives? Those that make people want to have a gaming PC? Crysis is an exemple, but it requires a very expensive system to run nicely. So this drives away people from PC gaming.

That's my opinion. I'm a hardcore PC gamer and these things are not a very big issue to me. But who makes a difference in sales are casual gamers.
Sorry about my english :??:
 
I agree WoW is a factor. You do stop buying other games when you're playing that beast.

I also think it takes an informed consumer to purchase a pc game with confidence. Look at that little square on the side of the pc game and tell me a typical pc consumer can buy with confidence. I'd be willing to bet 85% of pc owners can't tell you what video card they have. Sure the group posting here can, but what about the people who call you because they can't install a friggen printer.

Finally- I bought an XBox360, big screen plasma tv, and a Wii and paid for a professional install for under $2000 and my 6 year old can walk over and start a game. That isn't the "lowest common denominator", that's just moving away from the eccentric techno-geeks into the mainstream.

 
Indi games are a good point. Alot of great titles have made it to the net....not to mention a slew of game remakes of old classics that big studios have long since abandoned. The Lazerus Ultima 5 Remake was a ton of fun. Fan remakes if you search the net exist for alot of great old classics. One im can't wait for is Xenocide the X-Com fan inspired remake to finish.

But piracy...yes it bad...but it been around even back in the early days of floppy disks. So for games studios to say its a huge problem now...guess what it was always a problem. I remember being 11 and sharing my terminator rampage discs with 8 friends...and in turn we shared games like Ultima 7, the quest for glories...... middle/high school kids, college students, or people who just don't make alot of money (or are just damn lazy) will pirate (i mean share software). As an adult who makes a good income I take pride in being able to support studios that put out quality product. SO piracy now existed before...and will always exist. I remember being in college when a friend figured out how to burn working PSII games on CDs/DVDs.

Another thing people haven't said much about ...people keep mentioning the ability to hook up consoles to nice big TVs.....almost every video card I ever bought in the past 15 years came with a TV out (s-video). With the newer Display Port(DP) maybe that make a bigger impact in the future. But whats to stop people from buying a PC box...buying a wireless keyboard and mouse and hooking it up to their nice big TVs??? Maybe they don't even know they can do it. 4 of my friends and myself all have ours pc hooked up to nice big screens....if some1 wants to watch a movie i hook it back to my 22 inch lcd.....but as far as The ability to hook up consoles to nice big tvs...maybe if video card makers and large OEMs retailers like Dell/HP/Gateway etc etc all tried to ship PCs with better TV hookups. Maybe ship PC with a GIANT STICKER and how to "HOOK THIS PC UP TO YOUR HDTV", it could change the perception of the PC...and open up a wider user base.



As far as the comment made by RobWright....yes putting a DVD/CD in the tray is a big imposition. Look at console....you play say Madden...then you play Oblivion......you switch games...but how much of that game is being installed on the consoles Hard Drives besides saved game data? Not much.....

Pc on the other hand most hand Im listening ot music....playing games on steam.....I wanna now play my nonsteam copy of San Andreas (got them both). Now i have to look and try to find my CD........not a big deal if the game INSTALLED 0 DATA on my hard drives....but god knows it put gigs of data on my hard drive. Looking around me right now I looking in my room at about 40 PC games....1/3 came in sleeves, 1/3 came in cheap jewel cases, 1/3 came in nice packaging (San Andreas happens to be one of the few..Unreal and Quake III gold and like 3 other games came in descent boxes that are easy 2 spot). ANy game I've owned on CD/DVD that has been put on steam I buy it......just so in 1-2 years I know its on my HD...I need no key to activate.....and I can reinstall it anytime without worrying the dvd media is scratched and guess what I can't find the game except on amazon or ebay.

Having us put these dvds in are drives ya I know it to cut down on piracy...but then whats the point of these huge 16+ Serial keys we need to install these games? Tell me if someone buys a game for a console when was the last time they get asked to put ina huge serial Key to install then use up a couple of gigs on thier console...and then say if in a year they wanna re install the game but guess what they lost the key (ya thnx for putting it on the back of my game manuals i never read) then guess what....im stuck with a coaster and am out 50 bucks. Tell me when did console gamers have to deal with that?

Its reasons like that STEAM sells games so well....maybe when Crysis hits steam Ill buy it.......but im not risking another Starforce, the Bioshock DRM....or having to search thru piles of mismatched storage media (sleeves, jewels, and self contained game boxes (like Battlefront, or Unreal).

Spyware/Malware is a pain in itself. Having to worry what BS game studios add to thier games that wanna hide on MY hard disk and mess up my system ain't worth it.
 
My take on this is:

1 All of these games are rehashed versions of the same old thing with maybe 12-20 hours of gameplay before they become coasters.

2 hardware cost is definitely a factor. Who the hell in large part is willing to lay down 1200 bucks on video cards to play crysis? In America, the economy is not doing so well. A wide majority of people are not spending money on things they don't need for instant gratification. Why was this factor not mentioned? It seems to be a subject that is dodged quite often. Well I'm not dodging it!

3 Crysis regardless of the graphical precedent set, was really nothing better than anything before it. I was very quickly bored with it. And while the graphics were pretty good, they were nothing like I was expecting with all of the hype.

4 DirectX 10 deployment and implementation absolutely sucked. a few titles, and a tech demo or two to showcase something no one could really use in a practical manner....unless they grabbed their ankles bought dx10 compliant hardware and a copy of vista for 240 bucks.
Is it that shocking? Plus I personally am not too amused with directX10, as I think so far it kind of sucks. Nothing much over dx9 IMO.
Microsoft really effed the market by holding people hostage to buy vista to have dx10, which was a whole new crock.

5 And yes, the game market is stagnant. Everyone is making the same crap. There is nothing as far as gaming innovation anymore. No new themes or subjects. I am so sick of FPS games it's really quite sad. What about Combat simulators? Space combat games? Adventure games? Where the hell are they? the Sims sold well because they offer a great alternative to the same old junk.

I do NOT think piracy plays near as much of a role as it is made out to be. What a copout! I think piracy is a crutch being used as an excuse for poor sales in the absence of anything innovative. Lets face it, what game really has had any kind of replay value? I typically buy a game thinking it's going to be something good from how it's hyped, then i play a few levels and become disinterested. this is usually because the game sucks. It's rare when I ever like anything they are making now. You have maybe a few game engines and just different skins and levels. lol Innovative stuff there! hehe

As far as consoles go, they fit the mainstream requirement a lot better.
I think a good point was made regarding people wanting to just sit on the couch as opposed to their desk (I am not one of those people, but I do agree). most people with consoles have no idea about the step-up they receive with quality PC hardware, and could care less if the same title is available on their console. I tend to think all of these consoles are **** compared to a good PC, but the average gamer don't know any better so they just follow the rest of the herd.

Advertisement and exposure of PC hardware to the console user market is definitely not that good. Anywhere console games and hardware are marketed, there is very little room reserved for PCs and hardware. i think this was covered, but I will definitely confirm it. I think the PC and gaming market need to team up and show the console market who is boss by being cost competitive, and make a strong showing of superior technology/visuals to show who is boss. I dont think people are really aware of how much better pcgames are over a console.

I think these graphics chipmakers need to come way down to reality and realize that if they want to put food on the table they had better give a quality product for the right price, or there will be little justification for them in the market anymore. I agree that no one is going to pay 500 dollars to play one game that costs 40 bucks for 15 minutes.

I was ranting on another thread about why they refuse to make a single chip/card solution that could keep up with the status quo for the right price. Well this would be my reasoning.

truth be told, most of us are sitting here with a bunch of overkill and nothing to do with it, but are still awaiting the next best thing. So let's all go out and buy directx 10.1 cards! lol no. That is a stupid move. there is nothing out there that showcases the hardware, and not many developers as of late have the ethic to take the extra time to making a great game. they all want to rush this and that in 5 versions to the market.

Perhaps Nvidia and ATI should play more of a role in game development and that would help the gaming industry better fulfill the PC gamer. I think they should also drastically increase the amount of tech demonstrations and get them out there showcasing the ability of the hardware as well as teaching developers how to better use it. it almost seems like a closed market to me. not enough exposure where peple see what's available. Console gamers are rarely on the internet. duh!

Alright, I can go on for hours, but I'll stop right here.

next!~lol

 


Half of Brasil plays Tiba, I swear 😉

Pretty big WoW community too.
 
Oh, and I wanted to throw in one more thing.

Game modders! game modders generally have taken many games that were borderline and given them a lot longer life and replay value by making them far moer interesting for free, thus negating any need to go buy something else. They simply take a game that they feel failed them, or that could have been great with this little extra something, then they take it to the next level.

look at the battlefield series! I played battlefield 1 and 2 for the longest time. Each mod mad the game much more interesting all over again.

 
I'm curious about the amount of time/money spent on developing the SP side of a game.

If I could have bought a MP version of COD4 for half the price I would have.

Theres something wrong with your (game makers) system if you cant stop people from connecting to servers and playing MP with illegal copies.
 
I think this story of games being cracked is easy all they must do is search and destroy the guys offering the games. I also think the pc game price was high because of that but the pc and console games price has gone up. If the price was lower maybe they would buy. I always buy my games but I get treated like a criminal I must keep the DVD in the drive while playing and put up with anti copy software that slows my system down.I like Steam I have downloaded some games and I'm happy about that every time I reinstall my system I reinstall fresh copies of the games I own. I wounder why the game company can't give me some web software that I click on to prove I own the game and then let me play on my pc. That's why Vista is so slow it's always watching for digital rights and it can even find pirated software and remove the patch. This again is the you are guilty of stealing and were watching software I don't think they have a right to do this to me I never used any software or game on my system, but in the past I did try a few but never kept them always afraid about spy ware so would rather buy game or software. Most people would rather buy but then again the prices are to high for most people they should lower the prices. I'm also sick of games coming out that crash my system if they don't work don't ship! Crysis plays like good bad crash and the EA help gives no help game is not ready for release. Bioshock did a dirty thing again treat you like a criminal guilty until proven innocent. I also think buying 3 8800GTX cards to play a game is just stupid and I would rather make a house payment then spend that kind of money, who would pay the electric bill?
 


I see 3 glaring problems with your reasoning. First and formost, no one's writing games for just this machine. Console games are build around a fixed hardware platform, allowing them to extract every last bit of performance possible. They use compilers to optimize for the CPU and work around the various problems (unless it's a multi-platform game comming to the PS3) to ensure a smooth experience.

Second, how long do you expect this machine to be viable for gaming? As is, you're definitely not in the high end of things and you're absolutely not going to be happy with it's performance by 2010-2011 when the next round of consoles come out.

Finally, with one exception, everyone I know who games on a next gen console uses a SDTV. Even the one guy who uses an HDTV can't do 1080p. The graphics are still great no matter what kind of TV you're using. If you're really picky, grab a $15 s-video cable from gamestop and improve the quality of the image on the SDTV greatly. even then if you're determined to get an HDTV, there's plenty up to 32in in size with great quality for less than $1000. Like this one on newegg. It's only 23in, but it's widescreen and a lot better than my nearly dead, 8 year old walmart special, SDTV.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889022019
 
Winkgood, the other problem is your $345 pc isn't competitive. Keep in mind that only PC games are in a slump, console games have set some records.

I can jump on COD4 for the xbox right now and everyone has exactly the same hardware. There are minimal hacks. It's up to me and my thumbs how competitive I am assuming a halfway decent connection.

You will have an immediate disadvantage on your $345 pc. Plus you have to go out and specifically price each part. Joe Shmoe can go buy an xbox and his only consideration is which harddrive. PC gaming takes a high commitment to self education OR lots of money. Plus when you have to run a checklist to see if your gear is sufficient to run every single game out there (unless you have recently spent a lot)- it just becomes not worth it.

 
The smaller sections found in stores are a reflection of the poor sales. I do think piracy is driving developers away from PC games but I think Microsoft drove the final nail in the coffin. Making DX10 only available to Vista basically put a halt on any new games using DX10 until the end of the year. Microsoft wins if PC gaming goes away because people will run out and buy a 360. I think most people are getting tired of the constant "upgrade" thing as well. I own the 360, PS3, and a computer with an 8800gts. I bought my DX 10 card over a year ago and have never not been able to play a DX10 game. I told my friends a few years ago the day is coming that PC games will be few a far between, mainly an afterthought by developers that port console games to PCs. Between the DX10 b.s. and piracy, I don't know why a game developer would even bother. 80k in sales for one of the most anticipated games of the year? I would love to play it and have played the demo, but I'm not going to upgrade to Vista just to play one game. Obviously I know I can play it on XP, but what is the point I want the eye candy. When people like me who have been a die hard PC gamer for years are losing interest, that's when the fat lady is singing. Console games are the future and anyone who is making their living strictly from PC gaming is living on borrowed time.
 

Agreed. I also do not buy unless it's on Steam. Beats the hell out of keeping track of various CDs and CD keys. Everything is stored on my Steam account, and I can download my games directly from them. No CD to worry about, no key to worry about. I've even re-purchased some games that I had already owned on retail CD when they became available on Steam.
 
In some ways all that has been discussed may have truth to it but there is one thing that a lot of people have missed and I wonder how much it has todo with the slump in sales for PC games. Just like the movie industry there is this issue of when a company makes a movie to have an "R" rating they lose sales LIKEWISE most of the more substantial games have an "M" rating and we wonder why there is a drop in sales over consoles.

Most of the "M" ratings are over violence and language. The overt language is what keeps most parents away from certain games. The developers can talk about artistic license and realism all they want but realistically if they want sales they also have to appeal to a wider audience. Maybe the ads put out by the ESRB has done its job and the rewards of a job well done are being reaped--now maybe it is time for the developers to remove the gratuitious swearing / profanity from games, possibly they can win some of their audience back.
 


If that were the case, the drop in games sales would be universal, not just limited to the pc.
 


I don't know if that is neccessarily such a bad thing - maybe what PC gaming needs is a new grassroots development revolution. Personally, I don't need the slickest production to be entertained - I still play Alpha Centauri! I can see small developers and the fan community coming up with some great stuff in the future. Hell, I probably made 15 mods for Morrowind myself... (a few were rather decent).

Additionally, I can see more complex and engrossing titles emerging from the independent/fan community with the widespread availability of more sophisticated tools and freebie engines. Think "Black Mesa" that's not vaporware (OK, they claim that they're still working on it...).
 
Some of you guys here concentrate on one problem but neglect the others. I'll try to elaborate on a multitude of reasons why PC game sales have been dwindling not just this year, but a general trend for 3-5 years now.

1. Piracy, you guys obviously talked about this, so I'll be brief. I think it plays a role, but I'm not sure How big. Unless someone like the Call of Duty director give out numbers, we can't speculate how much of an impact it would make. I can't possible see it more than half the sales, which even if Call of Duty 4 sales were doubled, it is no where near the million or more sales of yesteryear and what Call of Duty is getting on the 360. Plus, games that are heavily online like Call of Duty, should have a easy way of eliminating members with pirated cd keys and cracks. It's harder for games like Crysis, which has a poor online play, and most will be content with the single player.

2. Cost of PC. Someone tried to post cost of a cheat HTPC and I'm not sure if that is accurate or not (30 bucks for Ram, even on newegg, the cheapest is 35 bucks and that's for crap ram), but that doesn't account for the second problem of PC and that is. The need for constant Upgrade is the problem. Look at Crysis, tons of people didn't buy it because they felt it's useless buying it now if it will not run properly or look good with their recent upgrades. Others were prompt to go and get that Sli 8800 GT or Ultra, double that Ram, and go for that Quad Core and motherboard upgrade. Thus is the problem Why buy a 3-400 dollar CPU, 250 for a single GT, 500 for Sli, more for the the Ultra, plus cost of motherboard, RAM all for a single game. Fast foreward 2 years, and you'll likely have to do that all over again. Regular people are tired of that. I see people try to say, for every generation people are getting dumber and thus why they are picking the consoles. It's time to get over this. In fact, if anyone is dumb, it's the people spending a G every few years.

3. It's not all about bleeding edge. Why the need to upgrade all the time. I always hear PC games talk about how they'll always be superior to Consoles. While True, but Who cares??? Obviously not the buyers. Can we get Great games that focus on gameplay, story and so forth. Can we get a lot of variation in games not just War, Strategy, Sims. For example, What is the best Selling Console out, The Wii. Not exactly bleeding edge. What was the gamespot, Ign, and Gametrailers game of the year, oh yeah Super Mario Galaxy, not exactly bleeding edge, or a war game. What was the best selling game of last year, Halo 3, not even close to the best graphical game on the 360. Look What Guitar Hero and Rock Band is doing, none are graphical games, and it's a different take in what a game is. expand your horizons and things might be different (i know guitar hero is also on the PC so no need to respond). Ever seen a Japanese style RPG game on the PC, exactly, not all RPGs have to be online MMOs or offline Western Oblivion style. How about a Fighting game on the PC, say, tekken, virtua fighter, Soul Calibur, I know fighters aren't what they use to be but the option is there in the consoles. This will be better elaborated in the next session.

4. What advantages does PC now have over console??? In the past, it was the ability to play online, in the age when PS1, Saturn, N64 didn't have such things, playing an Unreal Tournament in 99 had huge advantages that consoles couldnt' touch. There were the graphics, but now, Graphic upgrades are giving diminishing returns and aren't as important anymore. Sound??? consoles now have uncompressed PCM and other advance sound that even PC games can't touch if a director decide to include it. Even if not, your talking about equals now. Speaking of online, it now has come down to PCs may be able to support 24-32 people online, and often console are stuck with 16. But as you can see from Resistance, Consoles, at least the PS3 has shown the ability to break that barrier. and Resistance 2 is aiming for 60. This leaves things like easier patches, easier downloadable content and mods as the only PC advantage, Oh what, PS3's Unreal has support for that, damn. See where I'm getting at, though it still is easier from an overall stand point on the PC, the advatages are much less now than in years past. These few advantages are not worth the extra cost, the incompatablities and so forth that you must deal with on the PC.

5. Couch vs. Dest. Plain and simple, you get a group of friends over, you guys can sit back and play Madden to death, or sit back and play 100 matches of Virtua Fighter, or sit back and do the campagin mode together on Gears of War, or sit back play a Super Mario Galaxy game. PCs, your stuck with just the monitor. And I already heard it, PCs can now connect to that big screen HDTVs, first off, not everyone has a big Screen HDTV, ie.. someone may have a 40 inch TV but it was an older CRT or rear projection, there are a lot of Wii owners that don't have HDTVs. Second, in the typical setup, the PC isn't connected to the HDTV. PCs are in a corner, or in a PC room/computer room, or in the kids room, it's not in the living room where the Big HDTV is. College kids may have an easier ability to do it since everything is in the same room, but even that is annoying. Disconneting everything, move it where the TV is located, connect it JUST so you can play on the big TV. I know when I was in college, my computer was in one corner, I used it for the internet, games, and also a place to do school work and study, the TV was in a separate place, usually opposite the bed so I can watch it while in bed. I lived 4 years in an on campus Apartment, so there also was a living room that the 4 separate roomates shared. This will often be where the big 4, 5, 10 group of people play the games. Well, It's much easier just unplug and plug a console, than it is to upluge the speakers, the monitor, the case, the mouse, keyboard, and any other peripheral stuff that a PC is with. So while a PC can be connected to an HDTV, the majority of setups make it difficult and thus it still will be a Console advantage. Just like how Consoles dwindled the PC advantages over the years, maybe in 3, 4, 5 years or so, that advatage will dwindle for the consoles as well, until this another advantage for the consoles.

6. Other than Steam, PCs don't have a great way of keeping you in constant contact with your friends. something that XBOX live and to a lesser extent, the PSN network allows you to do. I know my friend personally said, if he were to get DMC4, he would on the 360 because if he was playing it, he would still want to know when his friends are on to maybe switch to Madden, or Call of Duty if he saw they were playing it. Again, convienient.

In fact that is it. Consoles are just more convienient for the population. People mention bringing PC games down to 25 bucks, but since when have games on average been that cheap. It wasn't in the NES days, it wasn't in the 16 bit days, it wasn't in the PS1, PS2, or this current generation days. games were always 39-49 (mostly 49 in the PS1 and PS2 days) and now 59. pLus, that doesn't account for why sales for these 59.99 Halos, call of duties are doing so well on the consoles, when PC game prices are cheaper. People say oh, the publishers are greedy. Yeah ok, underprice your game, when we are still in an age when a lot of developers and publishers go under or get absorbed by larger enterprises because the cost of making games is so great. That is just STUPID. a game like Call of duty 4 will give you hundreds of time more entertainment hours than a Movie would, so why price it at the cost of a new movie.

I'm not stupid like some others and state that PC gaming will die. That will never happen, but the days that PC gaming from a diversity of products, and from exclusive product, and from sales to be anywhere close to consoles is LONNNNNNNG GONNNNNNNNE. Consoles now essentially are PCs, just without the cost, the headaches of incompatability, or the Tiny screen.
 
Athlon X2 4000+ - $50
One gig of ram - $25
Budget gaming video card comparable to those used in 360/PS3 - $90
80 gig hard drive - $40
Basic DVD-Rom drive - $20
Budget motherboard - $50
Budget Case - $20
Budget PSU - $30
Keyboard/Mouse - $20
Total: $345

I have some serious problems with this guys reasoning. First off. An Athlon X2 4000+ processor isn't close to the 360's 3 3.2GHz processor and isn't even close to PS3's Cell. The same Cell that's blowing up folding at home records now. When they start optimizing even more for these processors, the difference will be even more apparent than they are now.

Basic DVD ROM, try BLU-RAY at least for the PS3, the same Blu-Ray player that's about 250-300$ on the PC as a stand alone, and the same Blu-Ray that is beating HD-DVD 85-15 right now and will become the next standard. So this is Yet another Advantage at least ONE console has over PC. For Less than Your Video Card (a GTX Ultra) you get a whole console and THE Best Blu-Ray player out there.

Good luck with the budget 30 bucks power Supply. Windows already have the propensity to be have stability issues, especially with all the various components that it has to have support for. Thowing in a cheap Power supply is et another way to have random resets. Not likely but but possible.

Budget Video card for 90 bucks, good luck getting Gears of Wars on that PC to run Just as beatiful as it ran on the 360. Fact is, You don't take into account what an OS does to the overall performance of that similar PC. Gears of Wars even on a PC twice the price of this one will not scale as well as it did on the 360. Again, you don't take into account what Console optimization does compared to a PC. Consoles don't have to have Vista Ultimate eating 6-700 MBs of it's RAM. Consoles don't have to have an antivirus program eating it's ram, it doesn't have to have various other programs all vying for the same amout of RAM. So that cheap 1GB of Ram won't get you even close to what that 512MB of Ram in a console.

So the reality is, you were much more accurate in the first $610 estimate, and even with that your CPU is still Weaker. Plus that doesn't eliminate the problem of it being weak 2 years from now, and useless 3-4 years from now. The problem for PC is constant upgrade not trying to stay the same as consoles because unlike the consoles, the games won't be released with the console's strength in mind, but will continue to be released with never video cards in mind. Crysis, a game that wasn't even that great, came out a good year to early compared to the systems out now.

Finally, as I said before, the problem with PC's isn't graphical performance, it's convience, Consoles are just way more convinient for yourself, for a group of friends, for tournaments, for gametypes that people like (ie.. it has a broad variety vs. PCs generally are populated with a select few types of game genres) and so forth. And this is all from the guy who abosolutely Love playing Team Fortress 2 on the PC, in fact, I'm going to do it now. Get on the teamfortress2fort servers and Watch your back, as I'm one of the better players.
 


I would say that pirating built the player base for pc games. I'd also say most well-off pirates will end up buying more games than people who didn't grow up playing such a great variety of games. Poor pirates will continue to pirate of course, and if you look at inequality in the world, it makes sense that they continue to do so.

Its wrong to approach the subject from purely a U.S. industry perspective. Players in China, India, and most of the world cannot afford these games, and often the games aren't even offered legally. In these countries piracy is extremely rampant - but out of necessity.

In the US most pirates do end up buying tons of games over their lifetimes. I'd say most people pirating games are under 18, and they pirate them because they can't afford them. After university, these pirates become addicts and spend loads on games. At least thats how I experienced it.

What I do want to see however, is the demise of cross platform development. I don't see the advantage in any of the recent cross platform releases. The sales numbers being discussed reflect that. Cross platform is all about industry greed, and not about making great games. I'm just disgusted with UT3 for the PC. The game doesn't even work with X-FI Fatality sound cards (which they claim "Sounds Best on X-FI".) Due to their cross-platform development they were unable to test and debug the game. They also produced crappy, unworkable interfaces for the PC and ended up going backwards. 2 months after the release, they still haven't addressed the problem on their website. Gears of War support is even worse. Their expertise is spread thin now, and its at the expense of gamers.

Crytek built an awesome engine. They will capitalize on it in the next few years. They knew sales would not be strong at the beginning, since it barely runs on my 8800gts 640.

Also, its silly to shrug off the success of World of Warcraft. You have to include these numbers. This is part of PC gaming. For some reason you are only looking at cross-platform developers.

What about the amazing independent studios that exist? Aquaria anyone? These companies are going in the right direction. Independant developers are the future for PC gaming - because the large publishers are working from the wrong development perspectives. They are going after the entire market, when its better to be the best in one. Again, this is why the Wii first party games sell amazingly well, and the third party cross-platform developers are falling flat.

Instead of attacking pc gamers, lets attack cross platform developers who compromise every system to create sloppy buggy games.

And about online activation! Its the best option. I hate DRM. Bioshock was a joke for this reason and I wish i didn't buy it so I could have boycotted it. I do however like online activation as the way of the future. With all these games i'm buying I can't stand swapping discs to prove i bought the game. My computer is hooked up 24/7 to the net, so what the hell, go ahead and activate me online.

 
Rob and Ben, I am now severely depressed. After watching that video I need a drink. As a PC Gamer, it's saddening, but we need to put this in perspective. I never thought that PC Games sold as well as console titles, besides casual games, and also the fact that many PC Games sell well over longer periods of time. Also to add, I know this year, most of the games I purchased were on STEAM, while only a handful I've purchased were in an actual store. I was also under the impression that COD4 sold a million worldwide on PC already, am I mistaken? Still, those opening sales figures were a big let down.

Did you guys get the 2007 NPD numbers for the PC already? I didn't think they were out yet, only the console numbers. I would think that it had a decent year, but not when you compare ALL of the consoles vs. one platform. I think you need to compare the PC to the 360,PS3,Wii,PS2 separately, as they are all mutually exclusive to each other.

As much as I like console gaming, I still consider myself a hardcore PC Gamer and it's certainly my platform of choice, and purchase every damn game I own btw. People have definitely migrated away from the PC in the States, not sure to what extent, but the PC platform seems to be bigger than ever in Europe and Asia, minus Japan of course.
 
I never usually watch second take, but this episode was very good.

Not only where you both honest about how M$ is ruining their own platform (the PC) but bullying every other platform out of the market too (The PS3) and using over the top marketing (Games for Windows)

Also i do agree on all the things you discussed.

I was totally put of buying Crysis (even though i had pre-ordered the Collectors Edition) because of the bugs and huge performance problems (most of which are fix now with the patch) and instead of Crysis i got CoD4 PC and even the MP in that is seriously flawed because of the bugs and tiny amount of players (50K World Wide is nothing, F2P MMO's have more then that) unfortunately the same can be said with CSS,BF2/2142 and UT3/2k4.

Its a alarming trend where nobody plays PC games online anymore.

But what really ticks me off is how nobody are playing their PC games online anymore, instead playing the console versions and have to subscribe to do so.

But can i ask you all this..... What would save PC Gaming ?

I think Cross Platform MP and mod compatibility. (Think Halo 3 and ShadowRun)

Sure online PC Gaming will not be free anymore (if it MS did it with their Live ! service)

If there is not going to be any major Cross platform games this year, we, as PC gamers and going to have a pretty bleak year for MP, not just in sales numbers but in general, less interest by the consumer means less support for the PC version, just look at Kane and Lynch on PC.

It had a terrible bug where it would crash constantly on PC users, but on Consoles it ran silky sweet.

I only disagree with one thing about this Second Take.

Developers are to blame, just look at R* starting the Console > PC trend with GTA3.

They control which publisher they go with, how they market their games and what platforms they will be delivering it to.

The exact same thing is happening now with GTA:IV, PS3/X360 exclusive.

Not even a sniff of when a "Port" version for the PC might come out, or even be announced.

Also i agree upgrading every 3-6months is crazy, 1-3 years is more realistic.

My net upgrade will be a new GPU (88GT) and a whole new system, but the system i am using now is 3 years old in most parts, with a upgrade done this time last year.

Anyways, discuss and no console fanbois please.
 


Well over here in Australia, the PC gaming scene is quite good.

While retail stores still push consoles as much as they do anywhere else, the amount of people i know without a "next gen console" is very pleasing.

None of my friends (50 odd) have a PS3 or X360.

I ask them do their friends have a "Next Gen Console", hardly any of them do.

But it is still a shame for PC gamers in the US that there is hardly any left.
 
My take on it - sorry, so many posts, but i don't have time too read them all.

In my opinion, i think that there are many problems that cause what I believe is a temporary slump.
And many are too blame. But, again, i think it is only temporary.

1. Advertising. U go into any store, and they have tons of games and "working" consoles so u can play them.
Pc games are only on sale in small numbers. And, the graphics cards sold are mostly sub par. U can only be a pc
gamer if u know what u r doing, and purchase most everything online. Plus, half the games for windows systems,
are never up and running in the stores I go too. And the ones that do, aren't running on high settings.
a. how is any non pc gamer suposed to become a pc gamer, if they still think xbox360 or ps3 is better
b. even if they want to, it takes a lot of time and know how to purchase the parts to build a decent rig cuz if
they try to buy the parts in the stores, they pay a big markup, and think they are getting the best parts,
but in reality, aren't.

FIX- get all the graphics cards manufactures and game devs- to actually get together, and start some "real
physical" stores to show the public what a "real" pc can do. I would love to go into a "nvidia" or "valve" store.
Have it set up on a big screen, or even a projector at full res. And actually have "top" hardware on display, and
be able to finance a decent gaming computer through there stores.

2. games for windows- what happened? many games still don't have games for windows. I just bought a new xbox
360 controller for my pc, and it doesn't work with most games. Plus, direct X 10 on vista only. And, not to mention the fact that,
microsoft is trying to force all these people into spending all that xtra money on a new operating system, when
most gamers already spent there money on parts. MONEY, MONEY, MONEY....

FIX- how bought game devs get together on the games for windows, and how about microsoft actually build an "only gaming" oporating system without all the bloat ware on the cheap. I gaurantee they would make a lot more money off of it for 50 or 100 a copy with directX 10 and good support, then they would from a 400 dollar vista.
ultimate.

3. Games, an ongoing thing with game developers is to licence only to the consoles. There are a lot of good games
out there that if they ever made it to the pc, would look and run better, and I know I would buy. Where R they?
Still only a handfull of modern games on the pc. While ps3 and xbox 360 already in the hundreds. Plus, the best
games are still on pc, but, most of the best games, still have a good following. My best friend still plays
battlefield 2 like it is new. 2-6 hours a day minimum. Why? cuz u can fly jets, drive, shoot, lots of weapons, and
it's multiplayer, and huge maps, lots of mods, ect.ect.ect. Most newer games look good, but lack the playability.
But, battlefield 2 while still plays on the console, doesn't look or play nearly as good as it does on the pc. And, I
think, multiplayer is where it's at. So, that could be a reason for the slump, many pc gamers are so hardcore,
that they can't let go of a game and move on. until one they think truly better is out. Honestly, I love crysis, and
it looks great, and blows me away, but, i thought they would have jets, and all the vehicles in powerstruggle.
Where are the jets? I feel like it's a trade off between bf2 and crysis, but bf2 comes out on top still cuz they
killed flying. I think thats why bf2142 wasn't as good. Everyone miss's flying. If something works in a game,
don't change it. Build on it. Consoles u can't do that cuz of hardware limitations. Pc's u can. (sorry for getting off
topic)

Fix. port from pc to console- actually licence all games to pc, and consoles. Let the buyers decide wich system is
best for the game. I also think that if they do this, consoles will start coming out faster too to keep up with the games.

4. PIRACY- Cmon- hasn't anyone heard of mod chips? I've seen quiet a few of modded ps2's and xbox's. Also, im
sure it's only a matter of time before piracy hits 360's and ps3's. Piracy has always been a problem. But, they
blame pc players too much. Consoles get pirated too. I know its worse on the pc. But, it's cuz they are making it
hard to go out and buy a game in the stores, and half the time, when u download a game "legally" it doesn't work
and it is a pain. It's the domino effect.

Fix. Valves steam- online activation- even for single player, don't go with bioshock limitid use drm. it just hurts the game. Rediculous. Or, like i said, create a gaming oporating system that works like the consoles. But auto upgrades through microsoft or something, one that u can actually stick the disc in, and plays automatically instead of installing. Simple,and complicated, but I think it will work. And, they can upgrade drivers automatically, and controllers, all through updates. Like a dual boot OS. But with lots more options than a console, and for "gaming only".

FINAL THOUGHTS- The basic problem is just the times we are in right now,christmas, and all this new hardware and software, and that they aren't looking at the basic hardcore gamers. Most started playing games on consoles, then switched to pc's cuz of console limitations, and cuz the pc was the perfect gaming system. The basic hardcore gamer isn't rich, and doesn't have a degree in electronic engineering, but most are self tought. So, they need to do something to help educate new pc gamers, and find someway to get the public too see that the pc is a better gaming system. Like stores. And to build a gaming oporating system, that doesn't come with all the bloatware, and makes it easy for a gamer to load, oporate, update, and buy cheap so they can still afford decent hardware. If gamers really need all that extra stuff, they can buy vista. LOL. But most hardcore gamers in reality, aren't corporate bussiness people. Some are, but not most.

Basically, the manufactureres, developers, and big corporations, need to stop for a second, and really take a moment and take a good hard look at hardcore pc gamers. And actually talk to us, and take some time time to actually figure out what we really want. Instead of passing us up and going the easy route with consoles.

I think the slump is only temporary, in a year when PC's are much more powerful, and consoles hit a ceiling, gamers will shift back to the pc, and sales will go back up. Cuz games get boring after u play them so long. And everyone wants to play the best games. Not games limited by hardware. Plus prices are dropping fast on the hardware side, and christmas is over, and taxtime is coming, so more people will have more money in there pockets. Honestly, if u take all the hardware, software, and games into account, There is a lot more money to make in PC gaming then consoles. But, they have to quit passing the buck, and do something about it. Pc gaming will never completely die, but, it will have slumps. It's up to "everyone" to do something about it.

Just my take on it all.
 
Quick note about piracy...

It is huge. Estimations of piracy anywhere in the neighborhood of sales of new PC games are way off. I'm not going to explain where I see it going down (not where you might think), but the rates that I've seen for piracy of COD4 put it in the range of the console sales. Now, I must also admit that I see the older console games getting pirated like mad as well - the rates for the next gen stuff, a least where I'm looking, are not that high.

And this does not include the streetside pirating - I have no idea what those numbers are like.
 
All the Kids don't even know that you can game on PC. They only think its for Online use! Thats it!
They come to major retailers and they have walls upon walls of games while PC section is located in some basement.

Not only that, where i live (NYC) most of the people i've met have only one things on their minds (for gaming) and that is a console!

I once worked as Tech in computer store and a guy wanted to buy a computer. I asked him what he is going to use it for, "Office, Graphics, Gaming?". He looked at me surprisingly and said "Gaming on a PC?, I have a console". That is your answer. And of course pirating on PC is much easier.

So Marketing + Uninformed Consumers + Piracy = Low PC title sales!

PC gaming isn't going anywhere, it will continue to be low in the near future - except for titles from big companies like Valve and Blizzard - but it will never die out completely. The question is how much are PC gamers gonna suffer because of those low numbers. But few years ago all these predictions were made and we got this year some amazing titles and a lot of them too.

I'm not concerned. Something concerns me much more though; If AMD wont get their act together it will be a massive blow to PC Gamers! Its all nice and dandy seeing awesome Nvidia cards and Intel CPU's for ~250$ but, you know the rest...
 
I have to admit this video made me sad inside. I was concerned. I was angered. I felt very territorial. Like dog with a bone. Keep off my PC gaming or lose an ear sort of feeling.

By the responses it seems I'm not alone. I now have hope.

I hope the gaming industry looks to the music industry for a lesson. Change is in the air, thats for sure. We fear change, but every few years it doesn't hurt to tear it all down and rebuild it right. I look to steam to pave the way.

This could be good. A gaming OS for the PC??? Oh yes.
 
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