News Shed a Tear for HEDT: AMD's Threadripper Pro Pricing Marks the End of an Era

[SunMaster]

I view this as more "political" than anything else. The idea is to keep Intel dethroned from the HEDT-throne, so they won't have any bragging rights whatsoever be it server or HEDT. For those actually needing the HEDT CPUs I doubt the pricetag is terrifying.

I wonder what the total # of sold HEDT CPUs the last say 5 years.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

I'm going to hazard a bet that the vast majority of people who bought ThreadRipper for personal use got 1900X, 1920X or 2920X largely for the extra PCIe lanes. Lots of people looking at HEDT mainly did so for extra IO, especially back when SLI and CF were still a somewhat viable thing. People wanting to build home servers also needed those PCIe lanes to toss extra storage controllers, NVMe SSDs and 10GbE cards in. I was tempted to get a 1900X myself for eventual retirement into fancy NAS life while they were selling for relatively dirt-cheap.

Some people bought them because they had more dollars than sense. Some bought them as workstation hardware that didn't have workstation prices -- including the extra PCIe lanes. But most users outside of serious workstation people don't need Threadripper or HEDT and never really did. Anyone that bought Threadripper for gaming got conned, as it was almost universally worse than a high-end Ryzen or Core i7 non-HEDT part. The people that got the best use of Threadripper were places that used it for rendering farms and 3D animation. And now, for those same people, AMD is basically saying, "Thanks, please spend more money next time!" It took over the top of the many core, maximum performance market and then stopped having aggressive pricing.

 

[BeedooX]

I'm going to hazard a bet that the vast majority of people who bought ThreadRipper for personal use got 1900X, 1920X or 2920X largely for the extra PCIe lanes. Lots of people looking at HEDT mainly did so for extra IO, especially back when SLI and CF were still a somewhat viable thing. People wanting to build home servers also needed those PCIe lanes to toss extra storage controllers, NVMe SSDs and 10GbE cards in. I was tempted to get a 1900X myself for eventual retirement into fancy NAS life while they were selling for relatively dirt-cheap.

I bought the 2950X because at the time I wanted an AMD (first AMD build since Athlon) system built only on solid state drives, 128 GB ram to run a virtualised BigData cluster, and run multiple VMs for software development purposes. AND to play games on.

As an enthusiast too, I am already due for an upgrade, and don't want to put one off much longer. I'll need / want to buy something to replace this 2018 build and I don't have the patience to work out best perf./$ hardware - mainly because I think it's pointless. I had thought the 3960X would have been nice, but I could never get a motherboard I wanted - and I don't buy second hand...

Zen 4 looks as though it's going to be fairly potent - certainly a significant upgrade, but I kinda hankered for 24 cores, and not ready to switch back to Intel yet...

 

[RodroX]

One can never know whats going to happend to any Threadripper Pro 5965WX that can reach the announced speed. Perhaps theres room in the list for a lowerish-end "Threadripper Pro 5935?WX" .

With AMD you never know. But that doesn't change the fact of a expensier mobo, and RAM if you wana take advantage of the extra channels.

A real pitty, many people will miss the non-PRO Threadripper

 

[drajitsh]

In effect, u can get 8 extra true pcie lanes w/ Ryzen & an x570 mobo w/ 2x 8 lane pcie slots, & using just 8 lanes of double bandwidth pcie 4 for the GPU.
... not to mention the huge jump in chipset IO via the pcie 4 lanes link to cpu.

The x570 premium is a pittance but few seem interested & the huge false economy of b550 is preferred.

The problem is that while x570 chipset is not that expensive, the motherboards really using the feature set (2 *x8 PCIe slot off the CPU ) are 2x or more the cost

 

[BobJim]

IF I can buy it (5975) at $3299 I'll be a very happy camper; I was guessing it would be closer to $6k so seeing that $3k is like Christmas came early lol.

 

[-Fran-]

This has a somewhat decent insight as to why AMD just decided to continue with TR Pro and just remove normal TR from the market:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAQR8_MkPdE


In short: TR Pro is being bought by SIs working for a lot of companies that do require workstations, it seems. And this requirement has shifted enclosures and the space requirement for the whole systems to be in racks or virtual (weird, I know).

Regards.

 

[SunMaster]

In short: TR Pro is being bought by SIs working for a lot of companies that do require workstations, it seems. And this requirement has shifted enclosures and the space requirement for the whole systems to be in racks or virtual (weird, I know).

It makes a lot of sense. Where I live the pandemic has changed, permanently, working from home. Not having to deal with the heat & noise of a workstation must be a real bonus as well. At least we're not listening to 10k rpm high performance hard drives anymore.

 

[Xajel]

AMD has stated that Threadripper is going away and there will only be Threadripper Pro. There is no "forgetting" of the non-Pro Threadripper, that's the whole point. If you want non-Pro Threadripper, buy one now, because they are being phased out.

When did AMD said that?

 

[msroadkill612]

The problem is that while x570 chipset is not that expensive, the motherboards really using the feature set (2 *x8 PCIe slot off the CPU ) are 2x or more the cost

Yes & no imo

at a rough guess - $160 gets u an x570 & a b550 is little cheaper if at all, & an extra $100 gets u 2x 8 lane slots

its not free, but a lot cheaper than the jump to TR if a bit more IO saves ur bacon (some extra nvme drives ?).

There seems a lot of evidence (reddit posts) of folks who used to use TR as workstations, making do with 12/16 core ryzens since zen 3000/5000

its been a bargain & a boon update for such TR workstation users (TR has stagnated due to epyc popularity) - but a downgrade in IO lanes, so the advent of pcie 4 & pcie 4 GPUs has been a welcome way to gain an extra precious 8 lanes (an 8 lane pcie 4 gpu has equal bandwidth of a 16 lane pcie 3 gpu)

IE - that +$100? is an absolute bargain vs the alternatives

admittedly - IO is a new strong suite for alder lake, but i dont think their hot rodded "8 core cpuS", are in the same league as amd 12/16 core CPUs

oh well - zen 4 & decent ddr5 prices wont be long now.

 

[msroadkill612]

Tons of people will never put much more than a GPU and NVMe SSD in their desktop system. They will be perfectly fine saving ~$100 going with a B-series chipset on a mATX board over a similar tier (ex..: TUF vs TUF or equivalent tier from other manufacturers) Z/X one. Paying 30-50% extra for features you know you will never use is wasted money.

u state opinions as if fact.
what about the ones that cant see the future like you?
if the future proves unpredictable & they have an unanticipated need, they are potentially left with no options other than a ~new system, which would make a $100 saving seem a tragic mistake.

Other resources can be easily upgraded (gpu/cpu/ram...) but the mobo is a drastic & disruptive change

 

[msroadkill612]

The problem is that while x570 chipset is not that expensive, the motherboards really using the feature set (2 *x8 PCIe slot off the CPU ) are 2x or more the cost

PS
at least u concede the x570 is little more - most think even that is extravagant - which seems untrue - b550 can even be dearer.

x570 has double the chipset bandwidth which alone is a huge (doubling) of chipset IO ability - more & better ports like nvme/usb/wifi...

 

[InvalidError]

u state opinions as if fact.

Empirical evidence is not opinion, it is fact. According to Statista, desktop PC sales rose only 1% through COVID while laptop sales went up 70%. During peak covid in 2021, ~276.8 million laptops were sold vs ~80.6 million desktops. Most people have so little foreseeable need for upgrades that they favor laptops 3.5:1.

 

[drajitsh]

PS
at least u concede the x570 is little more - most think even that is extravagant - which seems untrue - b550 can even be dearer.

x570 has double the chipset bandwidth which alone is a huge (doubling) of chipset IO ability - more & better ports like nvme/usb/wifi...

I absolutely agree but unless you are making a real top of the line system, it does not matter

 

[msroadkill612]

I absolutely agree but unless you are making a real top of the line system, it does not matter

But u cant predict what needs the future will bring.

The extra options that doubly endowed ~$30+ x570 chipset brings may well make the difference between a rig life span of a few years and 5+years - certainly for x570 AM4 as things have panned out.

some upgrades are simple (cpu eg.) & some are time consuming & disruptive & risky (mobo imo)

x570 seems very cheap insurance if u value ur time as u should.

 

[InvalidError]

The extra options that doubly endowed ~$30+ x570 chipset brings may well make the difference between a rig life span of a few years and 5+years - certainly for x570 AM4 as things have panned out.

Short of buying already generations old motherboards for a new build that would leave someone stranded with obsolete IO from the start, I doubt IO is going to make or break many rigs. Based on CPU vs GPU sales, ~70% of PCs don't even have a dGPU installed and that is despite crypto inflating GPU sales.

 

[-Fran-]

Short of buying already generations old motherboards for a new build that would leave someone stranded with obsolete IO from the start, I doubt IO is going to make or break many rigs. Based on CPU vs GPU sales, ~70% of PCs don't even have a dGPU installed and that is despite crypto inflating GPU sales.

"Obsolete I/O"? Dramatic much? Come on, you know PCIe 3.0 is still well and alive. There's plenty SSDs and even video cards using PCIe 3.0 (new ones). Same with sATA, another "obsolete" thing.

This "but muh PCIe5" debacle is kind of stupid, to be honest.

Regards.

 

[InvalidError]

"Obsolete I/O"? Dramatic much? Come on, you know PCIe 3.0 is still well and alive.

The post I was replying to is about futureproofing systems for 5+ years by going with the latest high-end chipsets. If you are content with buying a 3.0-based system in 2021+, you clearly don't need or care about futureproofing IO much.

Also: RX6400/6500. Can't use those worth a damn on a 3.0-based system and if you need to opt for a 3.0-only motherboard over a 4.0-capable one in 2021 to save $20, you would likely be shopping at that end of the GPU spectrum.

 

[-Fran-]

The post I was replying to is about futureproofing systems for 5+ years by going with the latest high-end chipsets. If you are content with buying a 3.0-based system in 2021+, you clearly don't need or care about futureproofing IO much.

Also: RX6400/6500. Can't use those worth a damn on a 3.0-based system and if you need to opt for a 3.0-only motherboard over a 4.0-capable one in 2021 to save $20, you would likely be shopping at that end of the GPU spectrum.

Thanks for the context, but that doesn't change much what I said even with the additional context.

If you buy PCIe 4.0 now, it won't become "obsolete" because of PCIe 5.0 (or even 6.0) is out and being used (kind of?). That's my point. All PCs using PCIe 3.0 (and sATA) are all still working fine for the vaaaast majority of people. I do get your point, but even then, all hardware being developed based on PCIe 5.0 is not going to make PCIe 4.0 useless or dramatically slower. Yes, outliers will exist, but I doubt many here are part of those outliers.

All in all, I just don't like it when people become too overzealous on "but future proofing!" when the gains won't be there until a few years down the line when by then the whole system they have will be obsolete in some way, anyway. So, apologies I'm a bit triggered by that, lol.

Regards.

 

[InvalidError]

All in all, I just don't like it when people become too overzealous on "but future proofing!" when the gains won't be there until a few years down the line when by then the whole system they have will be obsolete in some way, anyway.

"A few years down the line" is the whole point when talking about viability 5+ years down the line. My i5-3470 was good enough for me for ~10 years thanks to having PCIe 3.0, USB3, SATA3, etc. and two extra cores that I didn't need back when it was new.

Five years down the line, 4.0x4 NVMe will be low-budget stuff just like how 3.0x4 used to be a luxury but can now often be had cheaper than the nearest equivalent SATA.

Do I need 4.0 on my i5-11400 today? No. Will I toss a 1-2TB 4.0x4 NVMe SSD in it during its useful life when the premium over 3.0x4 becomes slim to none 2-3 years from now? Practically guaranteed. Will my PC be outdated compared to the latest and greatest? Sure. But I don't give a F about that as long as it still does everything I expect well enough for me and based on my i5-3470, I expect that to be 5-8 years.

 

[msroadkill612]

The problem is that while x570 chipset is not that expensive, the motherboards really using the feature set (2 *x8 PCIe slot off the CPU ) are 2x or more the cost

Not true.

Not long ago pre b550 there was an absurd religious zeal for b450 msi tomahawk ~$115 (pcie 3 & 4GB/s chipset). x570 (pcie 4 & 8GB/s as is b550) was from $140. it was an absurd false economy - begging for being caught short on IO options. 2c 8 lane slot mobos were ~$250+

no employer would be foolish enough to risk wasted wages for such a small insurance expenditure.

 

[msroadkill612]

"A few years down the line" is the whole point when talking about viability 5+ years down the line. My i5-3470 was good enough for me for ~10 years thanks to having PCIe 3.0, USB3, SATA3, etc. and two extra cores that I didn't need back when it was new.

Five years down the line, 4.0x4 NVMe will be low-budget stuff just like how 3.0x4 used to be a luxury but can now often be had cheaper than the nearest equivalent SATA.

Do I need 4.0 on my i5-11400 today? No. Will I toss a 1-2TB 4.0x4 NVMe SSD in it during its useful life when the premium over 3.0x4 becomes slim to none 2-3 years from now? Practically guaranteed. Will my PC be outdated compared to the latest and greatest? Sure. But I don't give a F about that as long as it still does everything I expect well enough for me and based on my i5-3470, I expect that to be 5-8 years.

PCIE 3 is a good moot example.

Had you balked at a small premium for pcie 4 over pcie 2 at the time - there is no way u would have been content for 10 years.

u may not have known that of all the premium options, it would be pcie 3 which proved the killer, but u had the wisdom to know u cannot predict the future, but u can know that the more options u have, the more solutions to choose from - & that is always good.

 

[InvalidError]

u may not have known that of all the premium options, it would be pcie 3 which proved the killer

When playing the 5+ years long long game, being one notch ahead on everything you actually needed initially is a pretty safe bet. And it wasn't just PCIe 3 that was the 'killer' since I used all four things that I initially didn't need and the up-front cost to get them was maybe $50 total.