Question Should gaming GPUs cost over $1,000?

[volkgren]

At the end of the day, they play games.

 

[hotaru.hino]

*Edit: Btw, this isn't meant to judge people who buy them. It's meant to judge the prices of the GPUs. How do people justify spending that much? I've been there myself, but I suppose you could say I'm being turned off by the continuously high prices.

You're framing the question poorly. The way it's worded makes it feel like it's a loaded question, in that you're trying to make the other person feel guilty about wasting their money.

The question you should be asking is "how can companies justify charging that much for their GPUs?"

 

[drivinfast247]

I vote no, though I do enjoy gaming on my 55in 4k OLED @ 120hz.

 

[Avro Arrow]

You're not wrong. I also have a Switch that I use to play oldschool NES/SNES games on... and an XBox Series X for some sports titles... most recent purchase being MLB The Show 23...

.... I honestly prefer everything else on PC though. Hogwart's Legacy I just started with plans for Elden Ring afterwards. I just can't see myself playing either on the XBox.

Yeah, I much prefer PC gaming as well. It's just hard to rationalise it to someone who isn't already a member of the PC Master Race. I had to suffer with paying an extra $300CAD over MSRP in Canada. I actually paid about $700 over MSRP but I mined $400 back over 6 months with it.

When I made my decision, the RX 6800 XT was still the best-value enthusiast-class card on the market so I did about as well as I could all things considered. One of the reasons I chose it was for its 16GB VRAM buffer. I knew that if I was going to pay that kind of money, that card had better last for at least five years. With 16GB of VRAM, I'll play that card until it can't play anymore (even at 1080p) and I think that it will eventually be worth it.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

I think the 6800xt is probably there already. I'd guess compared to new cards you are probably at 4060ti/4070 non ti performance. So not too bad. Someone mentioned mlb the show 23. Fun game, but I was getting annoyed the other night as I went through my career. My catcher has been in the minors most of his career and is getting to the point where he needs to retire. Just need to figure out how to do that so I restart with a different position.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

Yeah, I much prefer PC gaming as well. It's just hard to rationalise it to someone who isn't already a member of the PC Master Race.

I knew that if I was going to pay that kind of money, that card had better last for at least five years. With 16GB of VRAM, I'll play that card until it can't play anymore (even at 1080p) and I think that it will eventually be worth it.

Yep... PC Master Race. My brother is one of those people that is a console gamer... he also has a Series X and has 0 interest in PC gaming.

As for my PC... I paid retail $1600 for the 3090 about 2 1/2 years ago... and just sold it for $675. Not the greatest return but within the norm on eBay at the present time. I got the 4090 at retail $1750... and I justified it because I game in 4K Ultra and this card was by far the best option considering it is a huge generational leap over the 3090. A lot of my benchmarks have doubled and that's good enough for me.

I've pretty much reached the max for my mobo... and plan to run with what I have for the next 3/4/5 years before I build a new PC. 3 years is a good bet... but I really want 5.

 

[bniknafs9]

But why ?
what about people like me who only want to play cod multiplayer ?
and certainly not witcher assassin Valhalla sort of open world games that make no sense

 

[KyaraM]

But why ?
what about people like me who only want to play cod multiplayer ?
and certainly not witcher assassin Valhalla sort of open world games that make no sense

Why what, exactly? I'm not sure what your point is. There are many, many cards available for less than $1000 that can give you a great experience for every resolution up to and including 4K. Nobody forces you to buy a card for more than that.

 

[bniknafs9]

Why what, exactly? I'm not sure what your point is. There are many, many cards available for less than $1000 that can give you a great experience for every resolution up to and including 4K. Nobody forces you to buy a card for more than that.

why are they so expensive ? Nvidia to me looks more like a Canadian company than an american one /.

 

[Corwin65]

The answer is innovation.
Today's 4090 is tomorrows 6050.
There are enough choices out there that allow you to game spending less than $1k on a GPU.
Besides if nobody bought them then they'd not make them at that price.

 

[ohio_buckeye]

I don’t know about innovation…but nvidia knows people will pay that price, do probably just charging what they can get.

 

[bniknafs9]

most of its engineers are either chinese or persian .

 

[JeffreyP55]

Prices are a total sham. Hit up the young gamer for all their money. 2017 my 1080ti cost me $700.00 and does 4k. My 3080ti was twice that much at the time. Does not follow inflation whatsoever. The technology is far more advanced now but come on.. 2023 the 1080ti would cost $859.00. Technology is rented. When you made your $5000.00 purchase your equipment is already obsolete. Hell no to 1k but I did bite the bullet. 2? You have lost your marbles.

 

[CelicaGT]

Should it? The question is asked as though a $1000 GPU is a fundamental human right instead of a high end luxury good. Unfortunately it is the latter, and if it is out of ones reach financially then that is the way the cookie crumbles. If one wants to be a PC gamer they should start with a BUDGET, and not be salivating over wanting what some random YouTuber has.

On a more serious note, when starting a fresh gaming build always start with monitor resolution and desired framerate in chosen titles. Everything else follows that choice. If the components needed don't fit that budget, move down a resolution or refresh bracket or adjust components and or expectations accordingly. Always have a plan. If you don't know, find out. Educate oneself and purchase smartly.

 

[KyaraM]

I don’t know about innovation…but nvidia knows people will pay that price, do probably just charging what they can get.

So does AMD.

most of its engineers are either chinese or persian .

And? The point is?

 

[ohio_buckeye]

So does AMD.

And? The point is?

To a point they’ll all charge what they can get. Which is why more competition is better. Hopefully Intel stays in the game and helps be a counterbalance so that they can promote more competition.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Yep... PC Master Race. My brother is one of those people that is a console gamer... he also has a Series X and has 0 interest in PC gaming.

As for my PC... I paid retail $1600 for the 3090 about 2 1/2 years ago... and just sold it for $675. Not the greatest return but within the norm on eBay at the present time. I got the 4090 at retail $1750... and I justified it because I game in 4K Ultra and this card was by far the best option considering it is a huge generational leap over the 3090. A lot of my benchmarks have doubled and that's good enough for me.

I've pretty much reached the max for my mobo... and plan to run with what I have for the next 3/4/5 years before I build a new PC. 3 years is a good bet... but I really want 5.

Yeah, I've maxed my mobo as well. Well, not really, I only have 32GB of RAM but it's an ASRock X570 Pro4 with an R7-5800X3D on board. I think that I'll get 5 years for sure because, let's face it, my R7-1700 that I got in 2017 can still game and it wasn't made to be a gaming CPU. The R7-5800X3D on the other hand, definitely was.

 

[Avro Arrow]

But why ?
what about people like me who only want to play cod multiplayer ?
and certainly not witcher assassin Valhalla sort of open world games that make no sense

People like you have it easiest because you can play your games on almost anything. In your case, I would recommend what's undoubtedly the best bang-for-your buck card in the market:
ASRock Radeon RX 6600 Challenger D 8GB - $200

That would run your COD/CS:GO/PUBG/R6S/FN/OW games at potato settings for probably another ten years or so. Not bad for $200USD brand-new, eh? 😉

 

[hotaru.hino]

Let's ignore corporate greed and what not, because it's basically a given. For-profit companies exist to, you know, make a profit and publicly traded companies exist to make money for their investors, lest they get potentially sued thanks to Dodge v. Ford Motor Co. (though there's debate on how much this actually set a legal precedent).

So why are video cards getting more expensive?

• The easy target right now, if you're looking right now, is inflation. The problem with inflation is once the prices go up for non-commodity goods, they tend to stay up there. A can of soup that now costs $1.50 when it used to be $1.25 isn't going to go back down to $1.25, even if the company managed to find a way to produce the can of soup cheaper.
• The cost per transistor basically stopped falling at 28nm and rose slightly over time (https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-rising-tide-of-semiconductor). It's simply getting harder to make things smaller.
  • Another point is that until 28nm, manufacturers could get away with a single method to design transistors (planar gate). It seems that every other process node after that, manufacturers had to come up with yet another way to physically make the transistor. So that adds to R&D costs.
• The complexity of hardware is increasing. Not only does the hardware have to deal with the baseline advances, but so do the features that hardware makers continue to add.
• On top of this, it's impossible for a single person to understand the entire design and implementation of a modern GPU to a level of expertise. They may be an expert in one or two areas, but not in all areas. This means you have hire more engineers to design and implement the product. Engineers aren't cheap.
• Complexity also means more time needed for other aspects of product development, such as documentation (which tends to be woefully lacking at times) and testing. No surprise, the more things you add, the more things you have to test, which takes more time to do. And time is money.

Compare computers of the 1980s. They came with manuals that could describe in detail how the computer works and how to use it if you wanted. But a Commodore 64 or an IBM 5150 has nowhere near the capabilities of even a potato PC today.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

Compare computers of the 1980s. They came with manuals that could describe in detail how the computer works and how to use it if you wanted. But a Commodore 64 or an IBM 5150 has nowhere near the capabilities of even a potato PC today.

Well said.

Lots of memories with my 1988 era Amiga 500.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Let's ignore corporate greed and what not, because it's basically a given.

Just because it's a given doesn't mean that it can be ignored. It is the root of everything that we're seeing. Everything else is just a smokescreen to try and deflect blame from those responsible for the prices that we're seeing.

Don't get me wrong, the clueless noobs who buy nVidia even when they're a terrible value are every bit as responsible as Jensen Huang.

For-profit companies exist to, you know, make a profit and publicly traded companies exist to make money for their investors, lest they get potentially sued thanks to Dodge v. Ford Motor Co. (though there's debate on how much this actually set a legal precedent).

So why are video cards getting more expensive?

• The easy target right now, if you're looking right now, is inflation. The problem with inflation is once the prices go up for non-commodity goods, they tend to stay up there. A can of soup that now costs $1.50 when it used to be $1.25 isn't going to go back down to $1.25, even if the company managed to find a way to produce the can of soup cheaper.
• The cost per transistor basically stopped falling at 28nm and rose slightly over time (https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com/p/the-rising-tide-of-semiconductor). It's simply getting harder to make things smaller.
  • Another point is that until 28nm, manufacturers could get away with a single method to design transistors (planar gate). It seems that every other process node after that, manufacturers had to come up with yet another way to physically make the transistor. So that adds to R&D costs.
• The complexity of hardware is increasing. Not only does the hardware have to deal with the baseline advances, but so do the features that hardware makers continue to add.
• On top of this, it's impossible for a single person to understand the entire design and implementation of a modern GPU to a level of expertise. They may be an expert in one or two areas, but not in all areas. This means you have hire more engineers to design and implement the product. Engineers aren't cheap.
• Complexity also means more time needed for other aspects of product development, such as documentation (which tends to be woefully lacking at times) and testing. No surprise, the more things you add, the more things you have to test, which takes more time to do. And time is money.

Yeah, I don't really buy any of that because the exact same silicon challenges exist with CPUs and they haven't shot up in price like video cards have. There's no reason for this other than corporate greed. If CPUs had stratospheric pricing, then I'd say that your words ring true. However, that's not the case. Video cards cost what they do because these corporations think that they can get away with it and they're trying to normalise the prices paid during the mining boom/pandemic/silicon shortage.

It's really counter-productive to make excuses for these corporations when there is no excuse. Those who make excuses for these greedy psychopaths only serve to enable this kind of behaviour and in effect, get screwed the hardest. People like me told Intel and nVidia to go pound sand years ago. People like me have the backbone and strength of will to completely ignore the existence of corporations that we hate. If everyone practiced what I do, we'd have parity in the CPU and GPU markets with lower prices and greater performance for everyone. It's really the only way to make a difference because you're actually doing something about the problem instead of just talking about it.

Compare computers of the 1980s. They came with manuals that could describe in detail how the computer works and how to use it if you wanted. But a Commodore 64 or an IBM 5150 has nowhere near the capabilities of even a potato PC today.

I remember those and yeah, the prices were through the roof but that was for a different reason. The PC manufacturing infrastructure that exists today didn't exist then. Technology begets technology and the 80s pretty much marked the transition from analogue to digital electronics.

Corporations today have no such reason for what things cost. It is nothing more than pure corporate greed.

 

[KyaraM]

Just because it's a given doesn't mean that it can be ignored. It is the root of everything that we're seeing. Everything else is just a smokescreen to try and deflect blame from those responsible for the prices that we're seeing.

Don't get me wrong, the clueless noobs who buy nVidia even when they're a terrible value are every bit as responsible as Jensen Huang.

Yeah, I don't really buy any of that because the exact same silicon challenges exist with CPUs and they haven't shot up in price like video cards have. There's no reason for this other than corporate greed. If CPUs had stratospheric pricing, then I'd say that your words ring true. However, that's not the case. Video cards cost what they do because these corporations think that they can get away with it and they're trying to normalise the prices paid during the mining boom/pandemic/silicon shortage.

It's really counter-productive to make excuses for these corporations when there is no excuse. Those who make excuses for these greedy psychopaths only serve to enable this kind of behaviour and in effect, get screwed the hardest. People like me told Intel and nVidia to go pound sand years ago. People like me have the backbone and strength of will to completely ignore the existence of corporations that we hate. If everyone practiced what I do, we'd have parity in the CPU and GPU markets with lower prices and greater performance for everyone. It's really the only way to make a difference because you're actually doing something about the problem instead of just talking about it.

I remember those and yeah, the prices were through the roof but that was for a different reason. The PC manufacturing infrastructure that exists today didn't exist then. Technology begets technology and the 80s pretty much marked the transition from analogue to digital electronics.

Corporations today have no such reason for what things cost. It is nothing more than pure corporate greed.

Every computer (and many, many other technical appliances, for that matter) needs a CPU. Not every computer needs a dedicated GPU. Most work computers, for example, are completely fine without. That means CPUs can be profitable by bulk alone, which is something GPUs cannot achieve.

 

[hotaru.hino]

Yeah, I don't really buy any of that because the exact same silicon challenges exist with CPUs and they haven't shot up in price like video cards have. There's no reason for this other than corporate greed. If CPUs had stratospheric pricing, then I'd say that your words ring true. However, that's not the case. Video cards cost what they do because these corporations think that they can get away with it and they're trying to normalise the prices paid during the mining boom/pandemic/silicon shortage.

Except they kinda have. The i7-6700K was $350 at launch. The i7-13700K was $450. Plus transistor counts for CPUs don't increase dramatically as much as GPUs tend to do. For example, if this source I'm using is correct, the i7-10700K has 6.8B transistors, the i7-11700K has 8.2B transistors, the i7-12700K has 10.2B transistors, and the i7-13700K has 13.2B transistors. This looks around a 25% increase per generation.

Compare this with the last four generations of NVIDIA and AMD GPUs (using their flagship models)

GPU	Transistor Count
AD-102	76.3B
Navi 31	58.0B
GA-102	28.3B
Navi 21	26.3B
TU-102	18.6B
Navi 10	10.3B
GP-102	12B
Vega 20	13.23B

While the relative increases vary, you're still looking at 50% to well over 100% in some cases.

It's really counter-productive to make excuses for these corporations when there is no excuse. Those who make excuses for these greedy psychopaths only serve to enable this kind of behaviour and in effect, get screwed the hardest. People like me told Intel and nVidia to go pound sand years ago. People like me have the backbone and strength of will to completely ignore the existence of corporations that we hate. If everyone practiced what I do, we'd have parity in the CPU and GPU markets with lower prices and greater performance for everyone. It's really the only way to make a difference because you're actually doing something about the problem instead of just talking about it.

And good for you. Continue voting with your wallet.

Corporations today have no such reason for what things cost. It is nothing more than pure corporate greed.

The only time I'd ever buy the "pure" greed part is if literally nothing practical has changed. Pure greed is rearranging the content of a text book by simply changing the chapters or sections around without updating the content for the sole reason of forcing students to buy the latest edition. Pure greed is when pharmaceutical companies jack up the price of a life saving drug 3x even though there's no real reason why (no shortage of supply, no sudden uptick in cases) and when the same product is cheaper elsewhere. Pure greed is buying up a bunch of patents, not making any products out of them, forcing others to license or get sued.

Let me know when all NVIDIA or Intel does is sell parts where literally nothing has changed but they're charging more for it.

EDIT: Actually you don't have to. We're not going to get anywhere anyway and I'm not really interested in continuing this conversation.

 

[volkgren]

Should it? The question is asked as though a $1000 GPU is a fundamental human right instead of a high end luxury good. Unfortunately it is the latter, and if it is out of ones reach financially then that is the way the cookie crumbles. If one wants to be a PC gamer they should start with a BUDGET, and not be salivating over wanting what some random YouTuber has.

On a more serious note, when starting a fresh gaming build always start with monitor resolution and desired framerate in chosen titles. Everything else follows that choice. If the components needed don't fit that budget, move down a resolution or refresh bracket or adjust components and or expectations accordingly. Always have a plan. If you don't know, find out. Educate oneself and purchase smartly.

I did not ask the question in any such manner. Budget is not important to me. It's a matter of principle. When my PC cost me $4000 in 2018 with a $770 GTX 1080 Ti back then, I certainly do not want to add a $1500-$2000 GPU to keep it up to date. Hard pass. Maybe I'm just maturing and finding more important things to do with money, like keeping it in my bank account. I'll stick with a $700 GPU such as the currently priced 6950XT.

Edit: You know what, I'm beginning to feel bad about bringing this up the way I did. No hard feelings. I'm susceptible to doing the same thing and dropping $1,000+ on some hardware. I'm not here to judge anyone. I just don't like the fact that $1,000+ GPUs became mainstream. I like to play games at the highest settings with good performance, but I don't like it enough to spend that much. I might like building custom PCs as a hobby enough, but I don't like gaming enough. I think I'm simply outgrowing gaming, which is kind of irritating me because I've bought a lot of games over the years and I don't spend more than a few hours on them before I'm done with them. They're just not as fun anymore. I guess you could say this boils down to a personal problem lol.

 

[KyaraM]

I did not ask the question in any such manner. Budget is not important to me. It's a matter of principle. When my PC cost me $4000 in 2018 with a $770 GTX 1080 Ti back then, I certainly do not want to add a $1500-$2000 GPU to keep it up to date. Hard pass. Maybe I'm just maturing and finding more important things to do with money, like keeping it in my bank account. I'll stick with a $700 GPU such as the currently priced 6950XT.

You don't have to spend $1000+ to keep your system up-to-date is the point, though. There are plenty of upgrades available for your 1080 Ti that cost less. That's what people try to tell you here. And if you stick with a reasonably new card for $700... then this topic makes even less sense. Because you already know the performance you want is available for less. Be it a 6950XT, 4070Ti, or 7900XT. They are all in the $700-900 range and all ridiculously strong, able to play any game at any resolution.

 

[DSzymborski]

It should also be noted that a $700 GPU in 2015 is a $900 GPU in 2023 dollars.