Question Should gaming GPUs cost over $1,000?

[volkgren]

At the end of the day, they play games.

 

[volkgren]

You don't have to spend $1000+ to keep your system up-to-date is the point, though. There are plenty of upgrades available for your 1080 Ti that cost less. That's what people try to tell you here. And if you stick with a reasonably new card for $700... then this topic makes even less sense. Because you already know the performance you want is available for less. Be it a 6950XT, 4070Ti, or 7900XT. They are all in the $700-900 range and all ridiculously strong, able to play any game at any resolution.

Thanks, I knew that and that's the reason I went that route. I just get frustrated still because I enjoy building PCs, and the current market is the way it is.

 

[drivinfast247]

Prices are a total sham. Hit up the young gamer for all their money. 2017 my 1080ti cost me $700.00 and does 4k. My 3080ti was twice that much at the time. Does not follow inflation whatsoever. The technology is far more advanced now but come on.. 2023 the 1080ti would cost $859.00. Technology is rented. When you made your $5000.00 purchase your equipment is already obsolete. Hell no to 1k but I did bite the bullet. 2? You have lost your marbles.

"my 1080ti does 4k". What does that mean, exactly? Many cards can "do 4k", that doesn't mean it's an enjoyable experience.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

"my 1080ti does 4k". What does that mean, exactly? Many cards can "do 4k", that doesn't mean it's an enjoyable experience.

I agree. Since upgrading to the 4090 last week I've purchased 2 games... Hogwarts and Last of Us... both look absolutely amazing in 4K Ultra with a solid 60 fps.

A 1080 Ti may load these games in 4K... but it won't be 60 fps with Ultra settings.

 

[Avro Arrow]

Except they kinda have.

It might appear that way but I assure you that it's not.

The i7-6700K was $350 at launch. The i7-13700K was $450. Plus transistor counts for CPUs don't increase dramatically as much as GPUs tend to do. For example, if this source I'm using is correct, the i7-10700K has 6.8B transistors, the i7-11700K has 8.2B transistors, the i7-12700K has 10.2B transistors, and the i7-13700K has 13.2B transistors. This looks around a 25% increase per generation.

You're only using Intel pricing though and 6th-gen core existed LONG BEFORE the current "Inflation" excuse was used.

An examination of AMD's Ryzen pricing from 2017-2022 shows that there's really no excuse:

2017:
Ryzen 5 1600X - $249
Ryzen 7 1700X - $399
Ryzen 7 1800X - $499

2018:
Ryzen 5 2600X - $229
Ryzen 7 2700X - $329

2019:
Ryzen 5 3600X - $249
Ryzen 7 3700X - $329
Ryzen 7 3800X - $399

2020:
Ryzen 6 5600X - $299
Ryzen 7 5800X - $449

2022:
Ryzen 7 7600X - $299
Ryzen 7 5700X - $299
Ryzen 7 7700X - $399

So, between 2017 and 2022, with some slight ups and downs, the Ryzen 6 has increased by $50 and the Ryzen 7 x7xx has remained exactly the same. Meanwhile, between 2017 and 2020, the price of the Ryzen 7 x8xx has decreased by $50. I don't know what Intel has been up to with their pricing because I won't buy their products but it's clear that even if they did raise prices over that time, they sure as hell didn't have to. Intel has their own fabs which means that they should be able to get silicon fabbed for less than AMD who out-sources to companies like TSMC and GF.

EDIT: Actually you don't have to. We're not going to get anywhere anyway and I'm not really interested in continuing this conversation.

I'm not trying to make this personal, I'm attacking the corporations, not you. After all, we're both in the same leaky boat here. Rest assured that I don't make things up because my ego isn't involved in any of this. When I'm wrong, I eat crow and am glad to do so because it means that I've learnt something new. I honestly wish that there was a valid reason why prices are going up but there isn't.

As for nVidia, the way that company behaves is the reason I refuse to buy GeForce cards, even though I know that there's nothing wrong with their cards (well, until they started offering high-end cards with only 8GB or 10GB in 2020).

Please note that I actually gave your original post a like because I can appreciate the sentiment that we don't want to believe that these corporations are just screwing us over. I don't want to believe it but not wanting to believe something is a great way to get things wrong. If these corporations were being honest, then Ryzen 7000 would be considerably more expensive than Ryzen 1000, but it isn't (even though AMD added IGPs to them).

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

As for nVidia, the way that company behaves is the reason I refuse to buy GeForce cards, even though I know that there's nothing wrong with their cards (well, until they started offering high-end cards with only 8GB or 10GB in 2020).

It's corporate America. Do I think $1750 for my 4090 is overpriced? Of course I do. But Nvidia knows people like me will pay it.

The same thing can be said of Apple... Why does an iPad Pro cost $2000? MacBook Pro $2500? iPhone 14 Pro Max $1400?

Doesn't matter... because Apple knows people will pay it.

 

[Avro Arrow]

It's corporate America. Do I think $1750 for my 4090 is overpriced? Of course I do. But Nvidia knows people like me will pay it.

The same thing can be said of Apple... Why does an iPad Pro cost $2000? MacBook Pro $2500? iPhone 14 Pro Max $1400?

Doesn't matter... because Apple knows people will pay it.

I have to say, your honesty is quite refreshing, thank you!

You know, I don't really have a problem with nVidia charging through the roof for halo products, because the Patricians who buy them really don't care. What I have a problem with is when they start jacking prices on the Plebian masses because it hurts consumers and hurts the market in general.

I'd rather see the RTX 4090 costing $3000 with the RTX 4080 only costing $700. The people willing to pay top dollar will do so without a second thought. I thought that AMD played it really smart with the huge price gap between the 6800 XT and 6900 XT. It was a case of "If you want to pay this you can, but you don't have to." and I thought that it was genius.

It's too bad that they didn't take that approach this time around.

 

[Ar558]

No but unfortunately NVidia have a big lead and even AMD aren't cheap and as I realised at the time the idiots paying 2x,3x during Covid have screwed everyone forever by raising the price of GPU's into the permanent stratosphere. The reality is if Nvidia double the price and lose less than 50% of their sales they are making more money, they have abandoned the Mass market and want to be the Rolls Royce of GPU's. The only hope for the common man is hopefully Intel can get their house in order with BattleMage and give those looking sub $400 somewhere other than ebay to shop.

 

[Avro Arrow]

No but unfortunately NVidia have a big lead and even AMD aren't cheap and as I realised at the time the idiots paying 2x,3x during Covid have screwed everyone forever by raising the price of GPU's into the permanent stratosphere. The reality is if Nvidia double the price and lose less than 50% of their sales they are making more money, they have abandoned the Mass market and want to be the Rolls Royce of GPU's. The only hope for the common man is hopefully Intel can get their house in order with BattleMage and give those looking sub $400 somewhere other than ebay to shop.

Yeah, the thing is, if you're expecting Intel to save the market, you're only setting yourself up for extreme disappointment because they're every bit as shady as nVidia. The reason that AMD is expensive now is because consumers taught them that no matter how good of a value their cards are, most people are going to buy nVidia.

People like me who appreciate Radeon for its superior performance at most price points are too few and far between to matter. Thus, the market is completely broken because if consumers will buy GeForce cards no matter how bad of a value that they are (and they do), then the "invisible hand" of the market has been cut off and the market will eventually collapse into monopoly.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

Thus, the market is completely broken because if consumers will buy GeForce cards no matter how bad of a value that they are (and they do), then the "invisible hand" of the market has been cut off and the market will eventually collapse into monopoly.

IMO the only Nvidia 4000 series card worth buying is the 4090... due to the fact it is in fact a huge generational leap over the 3090... better than has been seen before?

The rest of the 4000 series isn't all that impressive.

 

[GarrettL]

Here's what Nvidia and AMD surely realize about the current gaming market, at least I would hope.

I've played consoles and PC games for decades. I am 55 and still game on my pc. Loved going from 1080p to 1440p a few years ago and would love to go to 4K but the cost for a pc user is sky high.

The best 4k gpu at this time costs ~$1,600. If your pc is outdated and you need to upgrade that's another $1,500 on average.

For the cost of an RTX 4090 you can buy an OLED TV and a PS5 or XboxX. And many people have done just that and who can blame them.

Nvidia and AMD are pricing PC gaming to a point that, in the long run, will reduce sales in the enthusiast segment.

 

[Avro Arrow]

IMO the only Nvidia 4000 series card worth buying is the 4090... due to the fact it is in fact a huge generational leap over the 3090... better than has been seen before?

The rest of the 4000 series isn't all that impressive.

Agreed. I actually think that the RTX 4090 is priced too low because it would be better if it was like $3,000 and the rest of the stack were much less expensive than they are to compensate.

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

For the cost of an RTX 4090 you can buy an OLED TV and a PS5 or XboxX. And many people have done just that and who can blame them.

Or get the best of all worlds... I have a Switch for the NES/SNES oldschool games (I'm 48) and a XBox Series X for various sports titles... and just upgraded my PC to a 4090... all on my 48" CX OLED... with 65" and 77" models in the rest of the house.

Always been a tech geek. 😉

You're not wrong though... but I do find it hilarious that the same people complaining about GPU prices have no problem dropping $1400 on the latest iPhone.

 

[volkgren]

Agreed. I actually think that the RTX 4090 is priced too low because it would be better if it was like $3,000 and the rest of the stack were much less expensive than they are to compensate.

I can agree with this. It should be called the RTX Titan and none of this discussion would be happening right now.

At the same time, the rest of their lineup should have more VRAM.

I quit Intel when the i7-7700K was superseded by the i7-8700K in the same year on a different socket, and I quit Nvidia when they released the RTX 3000 series with too little VRAM on everything except the 3090 and 3090 Ti and too high prices on practically everything in the lineup. The RTX 3050 is the worst value of them all. The one card that should have the best value actually has one of the worst.

I know this chart is aimed at 1440p and frame rates are a year old, but it is interesting nonetheless. I updated the pricings to match current and then current prices.

2023 Current Pricing Below

1440p	Frames	Cost	Cost Per Frame
RX 6600	51​	$199.99​	$3.92​
RX 6650 XT	63​	$259.99​	$4.13​
RX 6600 XT	58​	$254.99​	$4.40​
RX 6700 XT	75​	$349.99​	$4.67​
RX 6800	91​	$469.99​	$5.16​
RTX 3070	77​	$529.99​	$6.88​
RTX 3060 Ti	67​	$409.99​	$6.12​
RTX 3060	54​	$349.99​	$6.48​
RTX 3050	42​	$279.99​	$6.67​
RTX 3070 Ti	81​	$599.99​	$7.41​

Frames calculated on a 12 game average of 1% min fps by Hardware Unboxed - May 2022.
Cost based on USD - Apr 2023.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIohkbd--l8&t=644s

2022 Pricing Below - Just to prove that then and now didn't make much difference.

1440p	Frames	Cost	Cost Per Frame
RX 6600	51​	$220.00​	$4.31​
RX 6650 XT	63​	$280.00​	$4.44​
RX 6600 XT	58​	$290.00​	$5.00​
RX 6700 XT	75​	$390.00​	$5.20​
RX 6800	91​	$510.00​	$5.60​
RTX 3070	77​	$500.00​	$6.49​
RTX 3060 Ti	67​	$440.00​	$6.57​
RTX 3060	54​	$370.00​	$6.85​
RTX 3050	42​	$290.00​	$6.90​
RTX 3070 Ti	81​	$565.00​	$6.98​

Frames calculated on a 12 game average of 1% min fps by Hardware Unboxed - May 2022.
Cost based on USD - Oct 2022.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIohkbd--l8&t=644s

I actually have to reel myself back in on some of this, because the RTX 4070 is somewhat impressive; it improves on cost per frame, has more VRAM than the previous generation (although I'd like to have seen 16GB), has lower power draw, and is reasonably priced compared to AMD's competition at that performance level. I'm hopeful that the lesser RTX 4000 series cards follow in its footsteps.

 

[DSzymborski]

If you want Nvidia's prices to come down a bit, then you need people to not buy the GPUs.

They'd be idiots to lower the prices until/unless the high price becomes inefficient. Because lowering the prices when people are willing to pay significantly more just ends up with Nvidia subsdizing scalpers/arbitrageurs. Quite obviously, Nvidia would prefer that the money from selling GPUs goes straight into their pockets rather than that of a third party.

 

[aldan]

That's all well and fine. However, playing a game is not worth paying $1,000 for a single component in a computer that requires half a dozen more components. First-Person Shooters, Role Playing Games, Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games, Real-Time Strategy, etc. etc. None of them are fun enough or entertaining enough to cost me over $1,000 for a GPU.

I'm just curious how many people actually defend their cost.

so you are not a gamer.then your gpu will not cost $1000 dollers.there a point to this???

 

[volkgren]

so you are not a gamer.then your gpu will not cost $1000 dollers.there a point to this???

I am a gamer. The price of graphics cards puts me off. There is not $1000, let alone $2000 worth of GPU enjoyment in any game I've ever played.

If you want Nvidia's prices to come down a bit, then you need people to not buy the GPUs.

They'd be idiots to lower the prices until/unless the high price becomes inefficient. Because lowering the prices when people are willing to pay significantly more just ends up with Nvidia subsdizing scalpers/arbitrageurs. Quite obviously, Nvidia would prefer that the money from selling GPUs goes straight into their pockets rather than that of a third party.

This is the point to all this. I'd rather see people not buy the overpriced cards in hopes the prices will come back to normal someday soon.

 

[aldan]

I am a gamer. The price of graphics cards puts me off. There is not $1000, let alone $2000 worth of GPU enjoyment in any game I've ever played.

This is the point to all this. I'd rather see people not buy the overpriced cards in hopes the prices will come back to normal someday soon.

i feel for you man,but its not likely to change.

 

[GarrettL]

If you want Nvidia's prices to come down a bit, then you need people to not buy the GPUs.

They'd be idiots to lower the prices until/unless the high price becomes inefficient. Because lowering the prices when people are willing to pay significantly more just ends up with Nvidia subsdizing scalpers/arbitrageurs. Quite obviously, Nvidia would prefer that the money from selling GPUs goes straight into their pockets rather than that of a third party.

That is true, but....

The cost of gpu's had been on the rise along with the growing cryto craze. Covid shutdowns and supply chain shortages on top of crypto pushed gpu prices to compeletely insane levels. Talk about a poor time to buy a gpu but many still did paying scalper pricing.

Now we have Nvidia's new large scale customer, ChatGPT. So lower pgu prices are not likely to be seen anytime in the near future.

So what are those people who have waited 2-3 generations to do? Continue to wait for a lower gpu price point that is not likely to return for the forseeable future?

Yes, I too agree that gpu pricing has become outlandish. But many people have already waited several years and are in need of the upgrade.

 

[Tac 25]

@DSzymborski

during the gpu crisis, approx 3 years or so ago... prices are so high. While it's true that I mostly play e-sports title like Street Fighter and KOF games which are not very demanding.. a GT 1030 is still sadly not enough. These games need a gpu with at least 4GB vram, which the 1050 ti has. Found an overpriced 1050ti, bought it, and finally able to game properly with friends online.

yeah, I know it's bad to support overpriced gpu. But during the pandemic, it is unknown when a vaccine will be created, random quarantines continue, price keep getting higher. With the madness of that time.. I figured if I'm gonna die from the plague, might as well play games before dying (haha, only half joking with this).

on to the present. With prices eventually lowering, was able to get a 1650, and then a 3050. Then called it quits on gpu upgrade, because the 3050 already plays all the games I own without lag. Wallet can rest now.

 

[Avro Arrow]

I can agree with this. It should be called the RTX Titan and none of this discussion would be happening right now.

At the same time, the rest of their lineup should have more VRAM.

I quit Intel when the i7-7700K was superseded by the i7-8700K in the same year on a different socket, and I quit Nvidia when they released the RTX 3000 series with too little VRAM on everything except the 3090 and 3090 Ti and too high prices on practically everything in the lineup. The RTX 3050 is the worst value of them all. The one card that should have the best value actually has one of the worst.

I know this chart is aimed at 1440p and frame rates are a year old, but it is interesting nonetheless. I updated the pricings to match current and then current prices.

2023 Current Pricing Below

1440p	Frames	Cost	Cost Per Frame
RX 6600	51​	$199.99​	$3.92​
RX 6650 XT	63​	$259.99​	$4.13​
RX 6600 XT	58​	$254.99​	$4.40​
RX 6700 XT	75​	$349.99​	$4.67​
RX 6800	91​	$469.99​	$5.16​
RTX 3070	77​	$529.99​	$6.88​
RTX 3060 Ti	67​	$409.99​	$6.12​
RTX 3060	54​	$349.99​	$6.48​
RTX 3050	42​	$279.99​	$6.67​
RTX 3070 Ti	81​	$599.99​	$7.41​

Frames calculated on a 12 game average of 1% min fps by Hardware Unboxed - May 2022.
Cost based on USD - Apr 2023.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIohkbd--l8&t=644s

2022 Pricing Below - Just to prove that then and now didn't make much difference.

1440p	Frames	Cost	Cost Per Frame
RX 6600	51​	$220.00​	$4.31​
RX 6650 XT	63​	$280.00​	$4.44​
RX 6600 XT	58​	$290.00​	$5.00​
RX 6700 XT	75​	$390.00​	$5.20​
RX 6800	91​	$510.00​	$5.60​
RTX 3070	77​	$500.00​	$6.49​
RTX 3060 Ti	67​	$440.00​	$6.57​
RTX 3060	54​	$370.00​	$6.85​
RTX 3050	42​	$290.00​	$6.90​
RTX 3070 Ti	81​	$565.00​	$6.98​

Frames calculated on a 12 game average of 1% min fps by Hardware Unboxed - May 2022.
Cost based on USD - Oct 2022.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIohkbd--l8&t=644s

I actually have to reel myself back in on some of this, because the RTX 4070 is somewhat impressive; it improves on cost per frame, has more VRAM than the previous generation (although I'd like to have seen 16GB), has lower power draw, and is reasonably priced compared to AMD's competition at that performance level. I'm hopeful that the lesser RTX 4000 series cards follow in its footsteps.

No, you really don't have to reel yourself in because you're more correct than you know. The cost-per-frame from one generation to the next shouldn't even be close.

Check this out:
GTX 980: $550, PERFORMANCE = 100%
GTX 1080: $600, PERFORMANCE = 151%

The GTX 1080 gave a 51% performance uplift over the GTX 980 but only cost 9% more.

Ugh, I wanted to give more examples but TechPowerUp's site stopped working. Anyway, you get what I'm saying, eh? 😉

 

[Deleted member 2838871]

I am a gamer. The price of graphics cards puts me off. There is not $1000, let alone $2000 worth of GPU enjoyment in any game I've ever played.

This is the point to all this. I'd rather see people not buy the overpriced cards in hopes the prices will come back to normal someday soon.

Well... that isn't likely to happen unfortunately. I don't complain... I just pay it. As said I do think $1750 for the 4090 was a bit high... but I'll gladly pay it for the experience.

The experience I'm talking about is games like Hogwarts and Last of Us in 4K Ultra.

The best looking PC graphics I've seen... ever. If you wanna play the best quality gaming experience you gotta pay... otherwise there's lower end cards and 1080p resolutions for those who want to spend less.

 

[MarsColonist]

When just a video card costs more than an entire console, it's hard to justify PC gaming.

If you're a person who already has or needs to get a desktop PC for other reasons, you can just take the $500 you'd spend on a PS5 and use it on a low-end graphics card to add to your PC you either have or were going to get anyway. Doesn't seem hard to justify at all.

There are also a lot of people who need a powerful GPU for work they do, or money-making hobbies like making videos. Such people are naturally inclined to game on PCs they already own rather than consoles.

And lastly, you could simply buy the expensive GPUs less often. If you upgrade every 4 years instead of every 2 years, for example, you are essentially getting a 50% discount... then that $1000 GPU could... in a way... be thought of as costing you only $500.

 

[ChaoGB]

Remember good old days? GTX 295 Launch Price: 499 USD

So for now:
RTX Titan ada $499, good
RTX 4095 64GB(dual AD103 core) $999, great
ASUS MARS IV 192GB(dual Titan ada core with doubled vram) $1999, kinda expensive but still okay ))

 

[MJS WARLORD]

Their are many reasons why high end cards cost so much.

1. They are new and everybody wants it.
2. They know people will pay the price.
3. Just like everything else in life you pay top price for the first batch of everything.
4. Some die hard gamers will pay whatever the price is

Back in 2016 i had a custom built rig made for me and the zotac gtx 1080 had only just come out , its individual price on the build was £800 and you can now get the same for around £230.

FOOTNOTE TO VOLKGREN ..... nobody told me to buy the card and i dont have any gaming buddies to show off too and say ha ha you aint got one of these ......... it was my choice to purchase it !

 

[Viking2121]

I personally don't care if the higher end costs $1,000, I never aim that high anyway. But when mid range costs close to $300 or even $500, Thats where I got a problem and have to draw the line. No way a RTX 3050 is worth near $300 in my opinion, that to me a 100 to 150 card and thats kind of higher than I think it should be, its mid range, and cant even really do Raytracing anyway.

Used, I bought my 6800xt new on income tax, my Vega 64 I bought used was having issues with 1 of its fans, Then bought a used Evga 3080ti ftw3 for cheap, has an issue with 1 of the display ports, doesn't bother me, and sold my 6800xt for almost what I paid for it, so it worked out.