Should I buy or should I build? Design/Animation student with Gaming in mind.

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Wzyz

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Jun 8, 2013
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Hello Tom's Hardware community. I am 19 years old, Australian and currently am studying design in animation.
I frequently need programs such as:

- Adobe Flash cs6
- Adobe Photoshop cs6
- Adobe After Effects cs6

I am also a somewhat occasional gamer.
Games I would like to play would be:

- Bioshock Infinite
- Team fortress 2

I need a computer that would run those programs/games really well. I have never built a computer in my life, all my previous ones were prebuilt Dells. My consideration for a Dell would be:

- Dell XPS 8500 ($1,018.97 AUD)
- Monitor; Dell UltraSharp U2713HM 27'' LED ($703.14 AUD)

Which would cost me $1,722.11 (including GST).

Which is a bit pricey. I am wondering would I be better off making my own computer? The problem with Dell XPS 8500 is that it has an i7 processor but a NVADIA 640 which I am told is a low-end graphics card not suited for games or i7.

I am not a computer literate person and know very little about the intricacies of building a computer. All I know is the name of the main parts of a computer and the purpose of some of them.

Thank you for reading.

EDIT: Oh btw, I'm only considering building because of the price. If you can somehow find all the parts and things I need to build and is cheaper than the $1,018.97 by a considerable margin, I would build.

So my main question is, "Would building a computer that would suit my needs, be a lot cheaper than the Dell XPS 8500 for $1,018.97 ?"
 
Solution
D
This is close to what I would recommend. The case might not look the prettiest (aesthetics vs price), but so far as I can tell it will fit everything inside although it may not be the best for cooling.

http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zk8

The parts list on pcpartpicker Aus is limited in disc drives, that was the only one for the budget, but online searching may turn up more.

The graphics card, is not the greatest for high resolution... your looking a medium settings at best on games. But if thats not so important then, great.


The processor is probably overkill, it is sheer rendering muscle, It was one of the BEST domestic cpu's for animation, up until 3 weeks ago. It will get the job done. For college work? you could easily trade it...
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Honestly, this is an enthusiast forum, you do not need parts of that level and price. Up until about 2-3 weeks ago, the 3rd gen of processors were the best in the industry for domestic use. They were parts that most people, didnt use the full potential of. Save youself some money and stop trying to buy the more expensive 4th gen parts.

Are you going to be overclocking? Because if not you can save yourself over $100 dollars on the cpu and motherboard combined.

Are you going to turn it into a full scale gaming rig when you leave college, running two or more graphics cards at once? If not, thats another $50 or so you can save.

Give me about an hour and I'll try to get you a list of approximate parts.


Also, the optical drive is the CD drive. And its give or take whether you need a solid state drive, sure they're fast, but the budget may be better served in computing power.
 
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WAIT I've revised my items of lists.

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor $249.00 @ PCCaseGear

Motherboard: ASRock H87M Pro4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard $99.00 @ PCCaseGear

Memory: Corsair 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory $68.32 @ Mwave Australia

Storage: Sandisk Extreme 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk $112.00 @ PCCaseGear

Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7870 XT 2GB Video Card $229.00 @ PCCaseGear

Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case -

Power Supply: Antec High Current Gamer 520W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply $97.00 @ PCCaseGear

Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8 (OEM) (64-bit) -

What do you think
 
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I honestly have no idea. Wireless as in wireless to the keyboard/mouse/monitor or to the internet?

 
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Well some guy said windows 8 is actually okay and i can tweak it to look like windows 7. So yea, windows 8 is fine I guess
 
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Oh BTW, I won't be turning it into a full scale gaming rig when I leave college. I think I might dump gaming altogether when I graduate. I'm just gaming a bit for now until I graduate.
 
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This is close to what I would recommend. The case might not look the prettiest (aesthetics vs price), but so far as I can tell it will fit everything inside although it may not be the best for cooling.

http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zk8

The parts list on pcpartpicker Aus is limited in disc drives, that was the only one for the budget, but online searching may turn up more.

The graphics card, is not the greatest for high resolution... your looking a medium settings at best on games. But if thats not so important then, great.


The processor is probably overkill, it is sheer rendering muscle, It was one of the BEST domestic cpu's for animation, up until 3 weeks ago. It will get the job done. For college work? you could easily trade it down and massively boost your gaming performance if thats what you like.

The PSU is overkill again, but thats limited part selection on pc part picker, you could save money on a 500w psu easily.


And by wireless I meant a wireless internet adapter yes 😛.

The graphics card you picked would wipe the floor with this one, but its a bad brand, but like i said, you could easily get a same level or better card by cutting the CPU, which you wouldnt suffer much for. I can post the same build with that adjustement in for you if you want.
 
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Solution


Wow, thanks for all the work you did! Can I get back to you in 20 minutes or so? got something to do then I'll check everything out and finalize it again
 
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Goodday Wzyz,

The buy or build question is usually not too difficult to answer because computer technology is one realm where the technology improves quickly and in a wonderful reversal of everything else the cost goes down. One other aspect of this beneficial trend is that computers also depreciate quickly. This means that buying used can afford higher quality and performance for less Kangarands.

Since your principal use is of the workstation variety, I would i recommend consideration of something like this >

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dell-Precision-T5500-W5590-QC-3-33GHz-6-40GT-s-Intel-QPI-6GB-RAM-Dell-Warranty-/280954603402?pt=AU_comp_dekstop&hash=item416a33078a

> which is used Dell Precision T5500 with a Xeon W5590 3.33 / 3.6 quad core CPU, 6 GB RAM, and 2 HD's for $900 AU. To put that in perspective, a W5590 processor cost new $1,600 US by itself and I would expect this T5500 was in the $5,000+ range two or three years ago. Very high build quality- and of course, built specifically for the kind of programmes you're using, ability to use ECC error correcting RAM a very good RAID system, big power supply, and there is the option of expansion- two graphics cards, and up to 72GB (DDR3 1333) RAM.

The graphics card is generally of the poo variety so the thing would be to buy a new Quadro K2000 ($430 US), used Quadro 2000 ($250 US) or the best possible choice for your use, a Quadro 4000 off eBay US -about $300-350 US or a GeForce 660 GTX (2GB) for about $200AU. There are many advantages to a Xeon > ECC > Quadro for your work use including amazing reliability, 10 -bit color, extreme anti-aliasing, multiple light source modeling, much more refined shadows, gradients, and effects. You can use Special Quadro drivers that are optimized for Adobe graphics applications. The gaming qualities would not be astoundingly wonderful, but you also wouldn't have to shop, order, assemble, configure, and troubleshoot a built system..

In all, the used and improved Precision would cost as much as the new XPS, but with a focused capability of extremely high image quality. It's still a dilemma as the new Dell is new, the i7-3770 processing speed is very good, and with a better graphics card it would be better for gaming, there's a guarantee, and so on.

I tried a system using Partpicker AU with very similar components to yours and could not do a good one within your $1100 budget- but close >

PCPartPicker part list: http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zwN
Price breakdown by merchant: http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zwN/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zwN/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4670 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.00 @ PCCaseGear)
CPU Cooler: Thermaltake CLP0534 22.4 CFM CPU Cooler ($35.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Motherboard: Asus H87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($129.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Memory: Corsair 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($139.00 @ Scorptec)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($99.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($95.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 650 Ti 1GB Video Card ($149.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Case: Lian-Li PC-K58 ATX Mid Tower Case ($83.33 @ Mwave Australia)
Power Supply: Corsair Enthusiast 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($112.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer ($21.00 @ Mwave Australia)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (32-bit) ($149.00 @ PCCaseGear)
Total: $1260.33
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-06-09 23:13 EST+1000)

Probably a good performer. Remember that as compare to the Xeon, i7's, i5 CPU's do not have hyperthreading- which is considered as a near doubling of the cores' calculation capacity- a virtual 8-core. improves speed by working on calculation using idle core time. This means i5's are not extremely fast in effects processing or rendering.

Building a system is not terribly difficult- only be very patient and take your time on the first one- and in my view boosts greatly understanding of the parts that assist when something goes wonky.

A system closer to your budget could be done > the SSD OS/ applications drive could be deleted (-$100 AU)- and added later, there is probably a case in the $50 AU range (-$30) and with a wider choice perhaps about $30 could be saved on the Power supply. The I5 CPU comes with a CPU cooler that might be adequate- (-$35) I would use, given the choice, a Seasonic in the 550W range- so with care in price hunting possibly $1150 AU with the keyboard and mouse.

Good on ya mate,

BambiBoom

[ Dell Precision T5400 > 2X Xeon X5460 quad core @ 3.16GHz, 16 GB ECC , Quadro FX 4800 (1.5GB), WD RE4 / Segt Barcd 500GB] ( Total cost about $1,100 US) > Windows 7 Ult > AutoCad, Revit, Solidworks, Sketchup, Adobe CS MC, Corel Technical Designer, WP Office, MS Office ]

PS> For entertainment value and because it's easy to copy and paste, here is the system I would build to replace the one listed above with a generous but not stupidly unreal budget >

The BambiBoom Pixeldozer Espresso TurboKlonk 3000 CAD / Imaging / Rendering / Editing Workstation ® © ™ ℞ _5.31.13

1. Xeon E5-1650 6-core 3.2 /3.8GHz $600
http://ark.intel.com/products/64601

2. ASUS P9X79 WS LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 SSI CEB $380

3. Kingston 32B (4X 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuffered Server Memory w/TS Intel Model KVR16E11/8I $300.

4. NVIDIA Quadro K4000 3GB GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 Workstation Video Card $800

5. SAMSUNG 840 Pro Series MZ-7PD256BW 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $250

6. 2X WESTERN DIGITAL 1TB HARD DRIVE SATA 64MB 6 Gb/s WD AV-GP $170

7. LIAN LI PC-A75 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case $182

8. SeaSonic X750 Gold 750W ATX12V V2.3/EPS 12V V2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply $150

9. Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 64-bit - OEM $190

10. Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler $84.

11. ASUS Black Blu-ray Burner SATA BW-12B1ST/BLK/G/AS $85

TOTAL > about $3,200

And today I would buy a 27" 2560 X 1440 monitor (probably Samsung) and 24" dual monitor configuration



 
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Xeons are Good, but like you said, must be pre owned to fit budget 😛

Quadro are trounced by anything gtx660+ unless you can afford a 5000 (again not in budget you'd blow the entire budget on the card) and they suck for gaming.

Of course this is also all intel based, If gaming is unimportant and you dont intend to upgrade your system for maxing out games after college, You can use an AMD based build that packs the same power, but is limited by not ever really being able to max out games optimized for intel, Although the graphics card you could pair with it in the budget should blow away the 650 and exceeds professional grade in rendering power.

http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zQD

Again same applies about cheaper casings, PSU's but that card would give a far more fluid gaming experience and speed up rendering. But with either build there is a trade off with the CPU power and the GPU power. Its far more CPU dependant, but the better your GPU the further you can push the CPU, for another $100 ish you can up the GPU to running closer towards the level the CPU is capable of.
 
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Oh man I am kinda speechless...don't know what to do. Bambiboon thanks for all your work and effort in your reply, althought I am quite thrown away by most of your words (sorry it's quite a lot to take in)

Drtoast, you mentioned something about an adjustment, can you show me what happens after that adjustment?

Bambiboon, if I followed your advice, I'm not too clear on what to do. Do you want me to buy the dell precision or the xeon which drtoast mentioned must be preowned to fit budget?

The thing is, I'd love it to be close to if not under $1000. Drtoast's recommendation was pretty good, although I think I can sacrifice the processor i7 for an i5, if I can get a better video card.

And I am also concerned about the case, since I heard that cases must have good airflow to cooling which will minimise the failure rate or something like that.

I am very grateful for all your replies either way!
 
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You can sacrifice an i7 for an i5, it would probably be slower for rendering, but it depends how intense your college work is (it would be easier to tell if you could ask what size and length/type of projects you would be using)

You could then buy a high end video card to support it, which would give you a great gaming experince and wouldnt slow down the processor
The xeon was the name of the processor in the dell precision PC, Its basically an industrial grade CPU I dont have much knowledge of matching parts to it 😛

Most cases (read the descriptions) ((a tip, look your case up on newegg before you buy them, they give you the best breakdown on dimensions and connections of anywhere else i can find on the net))
again, most cases, come with fans installed, you just need to have spare ports to plug them to.

Cooling is not such a massive problem as long as you aren't overclocking (that generates more heat)
In fact, My current PC has no fans at all bar the Psu and CPU stock (its not the greatest) and it works fine, warmer than I'd like, but within safe ranges.

Obviously, you will need some fans, Australia is warmer than the UK, but a case with 2-3 fans built in should be more than enough.
 
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I tweaked yours a bit, will this be okay?

Processor: Intel Core i7-3770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor

Motherboard: Asus H87-PRO ATX LGA1150 Motherboard

Memory: Corsair Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory

Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk

Video card: EVGA GeForce GTX 650 2GB Video Card

Power: Antec Neo Eco 620W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply

Case: Corsair Carbide Series 200R Black Steel / Plastic compact ATX Mid Tower Case

LG GH24NS95 DVD/CD Writer

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)

I haven't checked the price yet though :S

Crap just realised they're not compatible...damng
 
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drtoast,

Yes, choices always become difficult when discussing high performance in about anything. I can get a better photo from an 8 X 10 view camera than a Leica M9, but requiring about 20X the time and pounds of gear. I can get round the Nurburgring in under 8 minutes in an Aston Martin DBS, but it would compress my spine and put me in hospital if I drove it to work on the New Jersey Turnpike. No, if I had to do the NJT, I'd have a Bentley Flying Spur.

When talking about high performance, a person has to make a choice according to priorities of use. With computers the content consumers are as different from content creators as the Aston and Bentley. The extreme calculation density of the Precision means it's surprisingly capable in content creation applications. To extend the analogy, a Flying Spur can do 200MPH to the DBS's 191- which is geared lower for acceleration. Again, acceleration is a kind of priority that's not applicable to the motorway use, just as high frame rates good for gaming are not desirable in workstation applications.

My idea was that our friend Wzyz would have as the priority the workstation side of performance for college work. A gaming optimized for games can have aspects that simply will not run certain workstation sub-applications, e.g. Solidoworks viewports, 128X anti-aliasing, high level particle and fluid simulation, multiple lighting sources, or crash them by error accumulation- this is especially true in renderings as gaming cards push the frame rate while the applications are optimized to refine and resolve details.

In considering the used Precision, I was proposing to Wzyz a 2009 Flying Spur to the proposed new Dell Honda Accord. The build specification is in the middle- a VW Jetta SE with sunroof.

Cheers,

BambiBoom

"No matter what your power, money, or friends, the cheapest things in life are free."
 
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Wait, what AMD version with this GPU?
 
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Bambiboom

I know, I wasnt disagreeing with anything, merely remarking that that was a great find for its price, Its RAM speed makes me frown slightly, but not too much, just that I wouldnt feel comfortable with a pre-owned PC, and that the same thing new would be well in excess of budget 😛

And I get the impression the analogy was also to do with graphics cards, for the budget, mid-high end geforce with the newer faster tech and higher power, actually overcome the optimized drivers and old hardware of the professional cards, I found an interesting forum post on these forums by a person building a work rig (from the specs i would assume its work) who tested a series of these cards in comparison http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/376380-33-maya-mudbox

yes they are higher models of the cards, but again, for the price point (if buying new parts) the 660 is still preferred over a quadro
 
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Hmm I really am torn between these three choices:

1. http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zk8

2. http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14AiS

3. http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zQD

But yea, gaming is my second piority since I'll stop it after I graduate. I'd like to focus more on my design/animation work. I also like a case that'll help me fit all the stuff in since I'm a complete amateur at assembling. And of course there will be a monitor that I will have to choose from.

Drtoast, which choices out of those 3 would you recommend?
 
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I'd recommend the http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zQD amd build best balance between raw power, and what the GPU can support the CPU to do.

The i7, has the best processor, but for the money, you cant take advantage of it with that graphics card.
The i5, Very much the lesser for your animation, It could do it, but its not a good purpose suit.

Also a notable mention, the pre-owned PC bambi suggested is without a doubt the most powerful, but you would probably need to invest a little in adding extra RAM.

Obviously all of these builds have limits to their upgradeability, they should be fine for a few years, but you can only do simple upgrades, (no multi GPU's) although if you find the GPU on the AMD lacking, you can always sell the card and buy a newer model later on.

It really doesnt help that for some reason the prices listed for australia on pc part picker, have a massive price gap between the next level of gpu's almost a 100% increase versus 40-50% in the UK, look around your local sites and stores, if you can get higher level gpu's for a more reasonable price, it would definitely be beneficial to invest in (even for maybe a total budget of up to $1200 ish if you can push it).
 
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Wzyz,

Yes, sorry, I never use one word where twenty will do.

I think it would be great to have the advantages of an i7- mainly the hyperthreading - see reply to drtoast . Actually, the ideal i7 would be a 6-core i7-3930, which I would consider buying but these are expensive- even used or $500 AU.

Something to watch is matching the CPU with motherboards as a pile of new CPU's the Haswell series, arrived only a few days ago. The i7-3770 is an LGA 1155 while you've mentioned using the Asus H87-PRO which is LGA 1150, chosen to work with the new (very new- only released 5 days ago) Haswell i5-4670. In short, if your idea was to find a used 3770, you need an LGA 1155 or you could use the Asus H87-PRO motherboard, but with the new Haswell i7-4770 ($345 AU).

Another thought is that 120GB SSD, while fantastic for the operating system and applications would not have sufficient storage for your work file- you should add a minimum 1TB mechanical drive or consider having a 2TB drive with a a partition for OS and applications and then adding an SDD for speed later. There are advantages in computer, application starting with an SSD, and in transfer rates of big files, but a 6GB/s mech'l drive should be just fine.

As for the used Dell Precision idea, this has both pluses which in my view could- with careful shopping and wise upgrading, offer the highest quality and still very good performance imaging working within your budget and more expandable than the new Dell. There are of course penalties, it's used, it would not be satisfying for gaming- unless equipped with a gaming card -which in turn would spoil a lot of the benefits of the Xeon > ECC > Quadro chain.

Just as a gamer has a slant on desirable computer performance by experience that focuses on certain game-optimal features, I do the same with workstation applications. I'm not a great commentator on gaming as I've never played a game or watched one being played. I can understand the theory and technically what works fro gaming and the more I learn both ends of this, the greater I find in the differences between a content consumer and content creation systems. This is highly subjective too- the numbers will always favour the gaming system, while above a certain level of image quality expectation- which only you can determine by experience, the gaming system simply will not produce, and may be subject to failures. When I used a GTX 285 graphics card in my Xeon > ECC system, I had image artifacts, bizarre shadows, and rendering crashes. I wen back to Quadro There's also the working reliability aspect, and in that the workstation system will win. Still, up to a certain level of work, the new Dell would be just fine. A very difficult equation!

Cheers,

BambiBoom
 
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Thanks for both your reply. I think I will have to go for

http://au.pcpartpicker.com/p/14zQD

Drtoast will you be here in after 8 hours or so? I think I'll order the parts but I will definitely need help assembling it.

It is late for me and I must sleep. I will be back here in 8 - 10 hours. Thank you so much for replying and helping me out! I really appreciate it.
 
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Find cases you like, for a decent price and I'll tell you if it will fit.

8 hours will be pushing it, that would be past midnight again for me and i gotta work tomorrow 😛

Wiring isnt too difficult, just about anyone can plug the right wires into the right holes, However cable management is an art and a skill, and if you could see the insides of my old pc you would know It's not my forte (lit. all wires routed over the motherboard rather than through cable management plates), something I hope to rectify in my own new build in a month or two.
 
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