Shut Out of Windows 11: TPM Requirement Excludes Many PCs

[t.kolson]

infact, we should not be "tempted" to make a system more insecure attempting to remove something that is totally unnecessary as a mandatory security requirement. It should be left optional as it is now.

It's just doing things like this that makes a system insecure other than this unnecessary TPM (which, by the way, doesn't protect nothing since there are attack methods known). Millions of computers in which they will be, within a few years, inserted patches taken from "any site", so as not to have to replace them, that undoubtedly even in four years will still be perfectly able to manage windows 11. Clearly they are products intended for different sectors, but consider some Atom CPUs windows 11 compatible following that list, that start from 2 core at 1.0Ghz (4.5w) probably embedded in system without very fast NVMe SSDs drives and with little and slow ram onboard against let's say an "old" ryzen 1800x with fast SSDs and with huge amount of fast memory even within four years...lol

This will be the real security problem in future unfortunately if this requirement will not be removed

 

[mrv_co]

I'm sure this gets Dell, HP, etc. excited, can't wait for their ad campaigns. I suspect these requirements end up being tied to Pro or Enterprise licenses and not at the Home and S-Mode level.

 

[CaedenV]

With new system requirements, including strict support for TPM, Windows 11 just won’t run on some computers that comfortably run Windows 10.

Shut Out of Windows 11: TPM Requirement Excludes Many PCs : Read more

I mean... this is mostly just fud...
If you have purchased a manufactured system that is Windows Certified, or a motherboard that advertises Windows compatibility, then it has had TPM support since 2016 because it has been a requirement that long. If you have built your own, then almost all midrange to high end motherboards have had at least TPM 1.2 support for 10 years now. I am seeing a lot of people in forums basically saying "I can't find a TPM setting, so I'm screwed", when it just isn't the case. Enable Secure Boot. If your Bios has a secure boot option, TPM is part of that, and it is enabled if Secure Boot is enabled. Unless you are running some crazy server as a desktop, then you likely have TPM, and if you are running a server as a desktop then you likely have a TPM dongle you can add (if you can purchase it somewhere), or some other TPM compliant HSM built into the platform which will still work with the TPM spec required for Microsoft.

The other thing I am seeing a lot are people looking at the 'supported hardware' list and freaking out because they have a 4 year old CPU. I could almost guarantee that my 10 year old sandy bridge with it's tpm 1.2 module on the motherboard would meet the minimum requirement for windows 11. "Supported" in Microsoft speak means that they have validated it, and are sure it will run, and will actively provide support to you in order to make sure that it runs. If you have an older chip, MS just isn't going to put that kind of effort in. It will almost certainly work still... but if you happen to have a problem the support person is just going to say it is time to upgrade rather than actually help you.

Lets also take a moment to recognize that TPM and SecureBoot does not mean you are locked into Windows. You can still turn it off and run whatever you want. You can leave it on and run some other select OSs other than Windows. And lets keep in mind that Windows is essentially the last player in the game on this. Apple has used it for 9+ years on their devices. Respectable Android manufacturers have used and required similar platforms for a couple years now. Chrome OS has been using it for more than 5 years, and required it (and when your TPM goes bad because samsung had a poor design and used a battery powered TPM that would drain all summer in a school district then it meant buying whole new sets of chromebooks because chrome OS does not boot without TPM). Windows has supported it since win8... 9 years ago! And made it a requirement (if not required to be turned on) for 5 years now... it really is time to have it, and have it on by default, and if you have a super old system or really weird system... well, you have 4 more years of updates on win10 to find a replacement which is plenty of time.

 

[Deleted member 431422]

Security solutions for doing banking, doing taxes, accessing medical records etc. would require a TPM.
Although most current solutions that most people use have their TPM instead in an external device such as a "smart card" with reader or a smartphone.

And what's wrong with how things are now?

 

[dimar]

Bad idea from Microsoft. Windows 10 can run fine on Core 2 Quad with GT 1030 for basic stuff. If Microsoft to force mass upgrade, just imagine how much trash will be created from computers that would otherwise work fine. Also I've seen an article today talking about scalpers selling TPM chips for high prices. This craze doesn't make sense. Windows is supposed to be all about long term compatibility.

 

[caseym54]

Well, I could enable fTPM in my bios, but the giant scare popup that talks about data loss doesn't make me feel very comfortable. While they say I should do this for my own good, I'm betting it's for someone else's good mostly.

 

[caseym54]

In this fine world where fTPM protects all these computers from intrusion and rootkits. the government will still be running Vista on dual-core Pentiums.

 

[Joseph_138]

Not all of those older GPU's that claim DX 12 compatibility are actually DX 12 GPU's. Some support a lower feature level, like feature level 11_1, which is common on many older cards. So do you need a card that requires full DX 12 compatibility? If Windows 11 is only going to support DX 12, what does that mean for games? Will you still be able to run games using DX 9, 10, or 11 rendering?

Also, these new requirements are going to mean that you are going to have to discard a lot of your older peripherals and accessories, because drivers for Windows 11 won't be available for them. It looks like Microsoft is going the way of Apple with OS X, and dropping support for a lot of legacy hardware to keep the OS as lean as possible. You'll be having to buy a new PC every three years if you want to be supported.

 

[Joseph_138]

"Microsoft’s list of compatible CPUs leaves out any Intel processor that is older than 8th Gen Core and any AMD CPU older than Ryzen 2000 series (first gen Ryzen is not on the list). However, a Microsoft spokesperson said that these CPUs were listed because they have TPM"

not only the Ryzen 1800x/1600x/...but also the Ryzen 2400G/2200G aren't on the list. Why? and more important most x370 motherboards have the fTPM option to enable TPM, so I think even the first gen Ryzen have fTPM integrated. So why they are excluded from the list?

They probably support TPM 1.2. The requirement is for TPM 2.0.

 

[Aurn]

They probably support TPM 1.2. The requirement is for TPM 2.0.

I have a Ryzen 1700X on an ASRock X370 Taichi board, and it does support TPM 2.0. But the compatibility checker tool still says “The processor isn’t supported for Windows 11”. The other requirements are met, so you can be prevented from upgrading just because your CPU isn’t in their list 🙁

 

[SkyBill40]

I just built a rig a few months ago based around an AMD 5800X and an X570 board. I ran the checker... and it says I don't comply... which is asinine. My machine has the TPM 2.0 built in, is secure boot capable, and should work fine. I'm finding an issue with CSM and having to enable it which may be causing some conflict with the secure boot since I can't get it to post with CSM disabled and secure boot enabled no matter what I do. The instructions for my mobo aren't clear at all on secure boot, either.

This whole thing just seems really stupid and rather unnecessary.

 

[Joseph_138]

I have a Ryzen 1700X on an ASRock X370 Taichi board, and it does support TPM 2.0. But the compatibility checker tool still says “The processor isn’t supported for Windows 11”. The other requirements are met, so you can be prevented from upgrading just because your CPU isn’t in their list 🙁

There might still be hope. I hope it's OK to link to another tech site here.

Microsoft may have just chosen to stop testing older chips beyond a certain point, because they figured people will be moving away from them with the recent releases of newer tech.

Microsoft corrects its Windows 11 minimum PC requirements, and makes us sad

It's TPM 2.0 or nuthin' people. Like it or lump it.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Hahnfelt]

While it’s true that Windows has been the OS ’for the masses’ ever since MSDOS, it’s lesser true that it’s been a nobrainer to upgrade. Until Windows 7 every new version was ‘for the next processor generation’ and would run like crap on whatever one had. Vista was, among other faults, this concept taken to the extreme and about where Intel no longer delivered on performance leaps in the next 86 chip. Thus Windows 7 was a serious rethink that put back the OS working for the masses, even faster than XP on older machines, and 8 and 10 have not lost that focus, especially 10.
Looking at Apple and its T2 chip on Intel, the definitive move to 64 bits and maybe a need to take a leap, has made Microsoft take this step. It’s not like Windows 10 users are left with a crappy unusable OS, and years pass all too fast anyway.

 

[Joseph_138]

While it’s true that Windows has been the OS ’for the masses’ ever since MSDOS, it’s lesser true that it’s been a nobrainer to upgrade. Until Windows 7 every new version was ‘for the next processor generation’ and would run like crap on whatever one had. Vista was, among other faults, this concept taken to the extreme and about where Intel no longer delivered on performance leaps in the next 86 chip. Thus Windows 7 was a serious rethink that put back the OS working for the masses, even faster than XP on older machines, and 8 and 10 have not lost that focus, especially 10.
Looking at Apple and its T2 chip on Intel, the definitive move to 64 bits and maybe a need to take a leap, has made Microsoft take this step. It’s not like Windows 10 users are left with a crappy unusable OS, and years pass all too fast anyway.

Windows 8 actually did lose that focus when they abolished the Start menu, but then had to restore it after people complained.

 

[Sam Bi]

If I can remove your drive, I can remove your entire PC.

 

[t.kolson]

I have a Ryzen 1700X on an ASRock X370 Taichi board, and it does support TPM 2.0. But the compatibility checker tool still says “The processor isn’t supported for Windows 11”. The other requirements are met, so you can be prevented from upgrading just because your CPU isn’t in their list

In the X370 taichi you still receive the message “The processor isn’t supported for Windows 11” even after enabling in the BIOS, section Advanced-CPU Configuration the AMD fTPM switch ?

 

[excalibur1814]

Each new release of Windows meant a new hardware cycle. It happened. Nothing new.

 

[t.kolson]

@excalibur1814 when in the past a new windows release has excluded CPUs launched on the market 3 or 4 years earlier? I don't remember cases...

Think for example at Ryzen 2xxxG launched on mid-2018 and unsupported at the moment. When a CPU that ONLY supported the operating system of the period when it was introduced to the market (in this case windows 10), it was no longer supported in the immediately following windows version...it never happened, also because already the fact that only the last one version of windows was supported was a "practice" applied only recently on CPU's, starting from windows 10.

 

[Joseph_138]

Each new release of Windows meant a new hardware cycle. It happened. Nothing new.

Not really. Look at the minimum requirements for XP. You could run that on a 233mhz processor, which were all obsolete by then. Vista only required a 1ghz processor, and that requirement lasted all the way to when Windows 10 first dropped. Again, they were all obsolete by then. It wasn't until the 64-bit versions of 8.1 and 10 came out that masses of CPU's were suddenly invalidated, but even for them, the 32-bit version would continue to work. It wasn't like Apple with OS X that would draw a random line in the sand, and drop everything that fell behind the line. When Apple switched to Intel, and released Snow Leopard as Intel only, there were people who bought new Powermac G5 machines only a few months earlier who were immediately locked out of the OS update cycle. You don't expect the version of an OS that your machine shipped with in 2005, to be the last version because Apple switched to a new CPU architecture in 2006. You have a right to expect to be supported for a few years at least, especially for the price PowerMac G5's cost when they were new. Apple should have compiled a PowerPC version of OS X for at least 3 years after the switch. Microsoft is now playing Apple's game when it comes to hardware support.

 

[tennis2]

THANKS MICROSOFT.

This will be SUPER helpful in ending the global chip shortage.....

 

[BaRoMeTrIc]

I won't have it, with my newest upgrade hardware that is still in the box under my desk, that would need the module, which I am sure not going to hunt down and buy.
For those who aren't going to do well hunting through the bios to see if they have the option when the time comes(the average PC user), they aren't going to be able to do anything but sit and stew in confusion and anger, especially if they find their perfectly fine running PC can't install win11 no matter what. .
It will not be happy PR time for MS.
For the rest of us we will have little trouble getting linux up and running and while it might take a short adjustment period, we won't be looking back at MS again, ever.
Of course, this possible reality deadline is four years away, and MS might change their tune between now and then if they want people on win11 very bad.

I dont think they are as concerned with people upgrading to windows 11 as they were with windows 10. They just want a more cohesive OS going forwards for OEMs with security, the app store, and XBOX gamepass being the main focus. They can afford to be patient and wait for those windows 10 users to upgrade their hardware.

 

[slurmsmckenzie]

If the support plan for Windows 10 goes out to 2025 then I don't see the pressure to upgrade as effecting me. What will I lose ?

I guess we don't know that yet. Stuff might get messed with on Win10 to make life a bit harder for those who don't upgrade. I'm sure that Win7 suddenly started taking ludicrously long to check for updates not long after "Get Windows 10" started. For example: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us...ely-slow/968faf03-c752-4036-815c-34642d59e82b

I'm not a Microsoft hater or anything, I just remember the issues I saw when trying to keep Win10 at bay back in 2016.

 

[waltc3]

Bought my x570 motherboard two years ago and I can run W11, no problem...😉 TPM 2.0 onboard, fully controllable by me. (I let it run because I can't see any reason not to.)

The criticism Microsoft gets is really funny, I think. One crowd berates Windows for being so good at backwards software compatibility, and the other crowd laments Windows' backwards hardware compatibility! Yet what happens when Microsoft advances just a 'leetle' bit and lops off some dead-wood minimum requirements? Both groups lose it over the 'leetle' things, is what happens!

W11 = W10, except for a couple of the baseline requirements that are higher in W11. Try and picture what a bloody mess it would have been if some builds in Win10 had the new requirements while other Win10 builds did not...! Chaos. What a mess that would have been.

But...Win10 is still viable for at least 3.5 more years and I've never known Microsoft not to extend its absolute EOL deadlines, ever...😉 Why is it that people enjoy panicking when they have nothing to panic about? Seems to be human nature, I'm coming to believe.

 

[excalibur1814]

Instructions:
-Visit Motherboard maker or oem website.
-Download the motherboard manual. If applicable
-Open manual
-Search for TPM
-Learn where it is or if t here's an option

For instance, I have a TPM 2.0 header, but the board supports 1.2. Or something like that. It's switched off. I will now switch it on.

The Internet:
-WaaaHHhh I want everything for free (which it initally is) and for it to be easy.

P.s. Remember: It's FREE!!!!!!!! It does not have to give YOU anything, realistically.

 

[bobert4249]

So tired. so very tired of MS and having to remove all their bloatware that destroys PCs performance with too many processes competing for CPU context, destroying cache performance, and using up wasted SSD or other disk space. PCs run so much better after I eliminated 90% of the junk not needed and turned unnecessary services and batch / scheduled jobs off / deleted. I give up - not supporting friends or family anymore. I'm moving to Linux for good. from 16 GB to 64 gb min hard drive space is scary - sounds like 48 gb of mostly bloatware headed towards the community. And personally - it's just freaking rude to assume my PC wants to be an X-Box POS game system for kids. Simply unmanageable for the masses. Been that way for a while - every PC from others I run into is "infected" with bloat to start with from the manufactures, then the users get tricked into adding countless more. How the F Candyland and a similar game even got onto one friend's computer that I de-installed it from is still a mystery. Uncle. I'm out.