Slowwww SSD need help please

[alrobichaud]

Hi folks. I have an OZC agility SATA III 120GB SSD and the read and write speeds are slow. I have AHCI enabled in the BIOS. I did change this after the OS install but I made the nescessary registry edit to enable it. I update my motherboards BIOS to v1502 which is the latest. I downloaded all of the latest drivers from the ASUS website for the motherboard. I updated the firmware on the SSD. I enable caching in the device manager and my SiSoftware Sandra score is still only 172.995MB/s. Any thoughts on what I may have missed? I also made sure that my ssd is plugged into SATA port 1 which is the 6GB/s port on the motherboard.

 

[RussK1]

Tried to go with standard ms drivers but there is not rollback option. Where would I find those? I did uninstall my current drivers hoping it would automatically revert to the standard but system recovery reinstalled the drivers. I tried the updated drivers that you linked russwood1488 and the atto results look better but I ran hdtune again and this time I only hit an average of 180MB/s. What exactly can you deteremine from the atto results? Does it give an average? The results appear to be much better using atto vs hdtune.

[strike]http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r637/alrobichaud/attonewdriver.jpg

[/strike]

I wouldn't worry about HDtune... I personnaly like ATTO. The shot you posted looks to be considerably better than previously... You would probably hit higher if you were on a better controller. Saying this, you may be at the limit to what the 88SE9128 can handle.

You could just run the system file test in Sandra and see if you get better scores now.

My scores:

 

[alrobichaud]

Your atto speeds are about 100MB faster than mine but at least I am running a bit faster now. Funny thing now is Sandra gives me an error saying that my hardware is not compatible when she starts to benchmark the SSD. Sometimes I just want to punch my computer.

 

[RussK1]

Your atto speeds are about 100MB faster than mine but at least I am running a bit faster now. Funny thing now is Sandra gives me an error saying that my hardware is not compatible when she starts to benchmark the SSD. Sometimes I just want to punch my computer.

Just got to remember, the SSD uses newer technology and the X58 chipset while still great, is older and you're going to encounter problems.

The 990X is still going for $1,000... sell it and the board and get yourself a 3930k and X79 board. Atleast that's what I'd do...

 

[foscooter]

Are you still running on the Marvell controller? WHY?!!?!!?!

 

[RussK1]

Are you still running on the Marvell controller? WHY?!!?!!?!

On his board the SATA3 ports are controlled by Marvell and SATA2 by Intel. He has no choice...

 

[alrobichaud]

Just got to remember, the SSD uses newer technology and the X58 chipset while still great, is older and you're going to encounter problems.

The 990X is still going for $1,000... sell it and the board and get yourself a 3930k and X79 board. Atleast that's what I'd do...

That is one option for sure. Newegg sent me $40 in gift certificates when I complained about buying two 7970's less than a week before the price dropped so I am going to use it to buy this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115072

They are advertising up to 600MB/s. It can't be any worse than the craptacular controller in my motherboard and the gift cards are going to expire in 3 months so I need to spend them on something.

They do have a couple of intel based raid cards but they are too rich for my blood.

 

[RussK1]

That is one option for sure. Newegg sent me $40 in gift certificates when I complained about buying two 7970's less than a week before the price dropped so I am going to use it to buy this.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115072

They are advertising up to 600MB/s. It can't be any worse than the craptacular controller in my motherboard and the gift cards are going to expire in 3 months so I need to spend them on something.

They do have a couple of intel based raid cards but they are too rich for my blood.

A few bucks more~

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816132032

Compliant with 5Gbps PCI Express 2.0

Fully compliant with Serial ATA specifications 2.6

Supports SATA III transfer rate of 6.0Gbps, 3.0Gbps 1.5Gbps

Supports ATA and ATAPI commands

Supports Native Command Queuing (NCQ)

Support AES-256

48 bits LBA can Break Capacity-Limit to Support HDD larger than 137GB

Hot-plug capability

Two Pin headers on board for LED connection

Support Port Multiplier Function - Both Command-Based Switching and Frame Information Structure (FIS) switching

Fully RoHS compliant

* HDD Controllers are capable to support all HDD sizes, but different OS may limited the HDD sizes that can be supported. For example, XP 32-bit supports only up to 2TB.

 

[cin19]

Don't buy the Rocket 622, i think it still use the MARVELL controller. The link is for Rocket 620
http://support.freenas.org/ticket/1084?cversion=5&cnum_hist=1

I can't find out the Rosewill.....

I think you need to have at least a PCIe x4 to get maximum advertised speeds of the SATA III SSD.

Or you can buy other SSD using the gift card to make the Raid 0 in the SATA2.

 

[cin19]

The Rosewill' one also use the Marvell controller, when you enlarge the picture you can see the controller has the M on the top.

 

[Dereck47]

I think you need to have at least a PCIe x4 to get maximum advertised speeds of the SATA III SSD.

Correct. Any PCIe x1 card you buy will give you approximately the same performance as the onboard Marvell controller.

If the price of the card is under $200 and the card does not say PCIe x4 or x8 in the product description you should assume it's a x1.

 

[alrobichaud]

So would this one better?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115077

There are some good reviews and bad reviews. I am assuming that I can use it without a raid setup?

 

[RussK1]

So would this one better?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115077

There are some good reviews and bad reviews. I am assuming that I can use it without a raid setup?

It's missing a few features and inparticular NCQ. The biggest question is it bootable? If you look at the feedback there are a lot of people having problems with this.

41% are one egg... I'd stay away.

 

[alrobichaud]

I find newegg reviews can be fairly useless semetimes. You only hear from the pissed off customers who can' get a product to work. I have two XFX mini display port to dvi-i active adapters from newegg and out of 30 reviews 27 are negative warning to not buy the product. It is tough to make a decistion based on that. Anyway, I am more concerened if you think it is missing some features. I would simply like to get a quality intel SATAIII raid controller but I am not willing to spend $300+ on one.

 

[alrobichaud]

I have been doing a lot of reading in the last couple of days to try to solve this problem. I have made all of the changes suggested in this thread. I am even using the default msahci driver which gives me the best result using ATTO as shown below.

What I do not get is why those results look pretty good yet the following results from hdtune and crystal disk mark are less than SATA 2 speeds

Just for grins I removed the drive from the sata 3 port and plugged it into the sata 2 port and ran hdtune and ATTO again. The hdtune results are pretty much the same but the ATTO results are quite a bit slower. This makes no sense. I have looked at plenty of reviews of SSD's that have used hdtune,crystal,sandra,atto and all of the results within the same benchmark review are about the same compared to each benchmark program used. All that I can determine so far is that my sata 3 controller has some issues. It's too bad that raid cards are so expensive. 🙁


These are both plugged into sata 2 port

http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r637/alrobichaud/sata2.jpg

 

[cin19]

Sorry, alrobichaud. Because the limitation such as SATAII or Marvell controller, you won't get the same numbers like other. Also don't run too much times of the benchmark program on SSD.

 

[Dereck47]

I am even using the default msahci driver which gives me the best result using ATTO as shown below. What I do not get is why those results look pretty good yet the following results from hdtune and crystal disk mark are less than SATA 2 speeds

Different benchmark software use different types of data to test Read/Write speeds.

ATTO uses highly compressible data to test Read/Write speeds.
AS-SSD, CrystalDiskMark, & HDTune use highly incompressible data to test Read/Write speeds.

Just for grins I removed the drive from the sata 3 port and plugged it into the sata 2 port and ran hdtune and ATTO again. The hdtune results are pretty much the same but the ATTO results are quite a bit slower. This makes no sense.

The results do make sense.

SATA 2 speeds are from 151MB/s to 300MB/s. So you are getting SATA 2 speeds in HDTune when your drive is connected to the SATA 3 port and you continue to get SATA 2 speeds when your drive is connected to the SATA 2 port.

SATA 3 speeds are from 301MB/s to 600MB/s. You are getting SATA 3 speeds in ATTO when your drive is connected to the SATA 3 port and you get SATA 2 speeds when the drive is connected to the SATA 2 port.

 

[alrobichaud]

Sorry, alrobichaud. Because the limitation such as SATAII or Marvell controller, you won't get the same numbers like other. Also don't run too much times of the benchmark program on SSD.

Umm...I do understand that SATA II is slow and Marvel controllers suck. Why would hdtune tell me I am getting an average of 180MB/s and ATTO shows me numbers that are as much as twice as high? I get that I am not going to get anywhere close to what OCZ advertises but my concern is that I am getting very different results from different benchmarks and it makes no difference if I am plugged into sata II or III ports, my speeds are the same. I am getting SATA II speeds while plugged into the SATA III port. Either I missed something or my sata III controller is faulty or my SSD is faulty. That is what I am trying to deteremine at this point but thank you for your insite into the problem.

 

[alrobichaud]

Different benchmark software use different types of data to test Read/Write speeds.

ATTO uses highly compressible data to test Read/Write speeds.
AS-SSD, CrystalDiskMark, & HDTune use highly incompressible data to test Read/Write speeds.



The results do make sense.

SATA 2 speeds are from 151MB/s to 300MB/s. So you are getting SATA 2 speeds in HDTune when your drive is connected to the SATA 3 port and you continue to get SATA 2 speeds when your drive is connected to the SATA 2 port.

SATA 3 speeds are from 301MB/s to 600MB/s. You are getting SATA 3 speeds in ATTO when your drive is connected to the SATA 3 port and you get SATA 2 speeds when the drive is connected to the SATA 2 port.

Getting SATA II Speeds from the SATA III controller is a problem regardless of how crappy marvel is or am i nuts for thinking that?

 

[Dereck47]

Why would hdtune tell me I am getting an average of 180MB/s and ATTO shows me numbers that are as much as twice as high?

The more a block of data can be compressed, the faster it can be written to the NAND chips on the SSD.

HTtune = Worst-case scenario
ATTO = Best-case scenario

 

[alrobichaud]

The more a block of data can be compressed, the faster it can be written to the NAND chips on the SSD.

HTtune = Worst-case scenario
ATTO = Best-case scenario

That does not explain what my problem is with my sata II vs sata III port problem is but thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Dereck47]

That does not explain what my problem is with my sata II vs sata III port problem is but thanks for pointing that out.

I apologize for not being clear. The point I’m trying to make is that your drive will never Read/Write at SATA 3 speeds when using data that cannot be compressed, regardless of what type of port it’s connected to. Even if you upgrade your motherboard to a chipset that has native Intel 6Gb/s ports, your HDTune results will be faster but they will still be in the SATA 2 range.

OCZ advertised AS-SSD (which uses incompressible data) speeds for your drive are “up to” 195MB/s Read and 130MB/s Write.

So if you use AS-SSD, CrystalDiskMark, or HDTune to benchmark your SSD you will always get SATA 2 speed results.

 

[alrobichaud]

Interesting. So what kick started this thread for me was when I was comparing my SisoftSandra results with russwood1488. He has an intel 510 series 120GB SSD and he scored much higher on the storage test with an average read of 377MB/s. That is 200MB higher than me on the same test but he has a p67 motherboard which does have native intel 6GB/s ports. I can't see that much of a difference between a native intel SATA III controller vs marvel. I know I am not going to get the max advertised but I should be able to break the 200MB/s range at least.

http://www.tech-forums.net/pc/f38/ocz-agility-3-120gb-ssd-246589/

 

[RussK1]

I don't think it's the drive... it's the older platform and the lack of native SATA3 which is causing latency. Try upping the PCIe bus and see the gains since the Marvell controller shares the bus... Also try different SATA cables...

 

[RetiredChief]

^ Do NOT up your pci-e bus (Aprox 100 MHz) above 103 as instabilities are common. His problem is the MARVEL control and the Agillity III. Nothing wrong with the Agillity III - Read my comment on it.

It is a Combination of the SSD and the MB marvel controller.
In General Sata III SSDs perform Best on an Intel sata III Port using iaSTor as the driver.
That is why you will see most reviews based on that plateform. ATTO is used by manuf BECAUSE it gives the Highest Sequencial performance - So they can brag, Never mind that (A) For an OS + Program drive SEQUENCIAL performance is the LEAST important parameter and (B) it used highly compressable data which is NOT representative of OS +program drive usage.

First on the Agility III SSDs (and yes I have 2 128 Gig Agility III).
.. The Agillity III performs NO better on a Intel SATA III port than it does on a Intel SATA II port. This was documented in a review which I confirmed on on my system a i5-2500k Asrock Extreme 4 (It's overall score using AS SSD is mid 400's - A M4 and the Samsung 830 both get an overall score of over 700)
.. Based on this I would always run an Agillity III on the Sata II port and NOT on a older Marvel SATA III port.
.. Even on a Intel sata II port it is WAY faster than a HDD.

On Benchmarks.
.. ATTO is great for HDDs that have Both OS + Programs + USER FILES. Large files structures can take advantage of High sequencial performance. HOWEVER these large files structures will NEVER be found on small SSDs. It is NOT representative of what a User will see in day-to-day performance using a SSD as a OS + Program drive.
.. The best Benchmark to look at in reviews is PCMark vantage, both overall and score for applications that you most often use. Unfortunatly not a easily optained Benchmark program.
.. My preference for Home Benchmark is AS SSD. It uses Compressed data, while still not perfect, it does come closer to "real-Life day-to-day" performance.


Bottom Line - Move it over to the Intel Sata II port (forget the Hype), Install the Intel AHCI driver (iaSTor). and if You get in the Mid 400's (based on AS SSD) your are getting the most it can deliever.

SSDs do NOT like to have Benchmarks repeatably run - there performance will suffer, Must let trim and CG restore the drive.
If you follow my recommendation - Move it to the Intel SATA II port, I also recommend (a) Do a secure erease, B0 verify latest Firmware (I believe ir's 2.15), then re-install windows 7.

PS I have 2 128 gig agility IIIs, 2 Curcial M4s and 1 128 gig Samsung 830 + Older version SSDs: Intel G1, and G2, a Phoenix pro, an Torqx and a WD Blue SSD

 

[alrobichaud]

Thanks for all the great info people. Based on all of the info provided plus reviews that I have read if I can manage to hit 400MB/s with ATTO then that is about as fast as I am going to see with the onboard marvell controller. In part due to the single pci-e lane of the onboard sata III controller with a max 500MB/s plus the marvell controller itself. So the marvel 9182 controller is supposed to have two dedicated pci-e lanes which apparently makes it run better than the 9128 controller. The asus rampage extreme III black edition has the 9182 controller and it is supposed to work pretty well according to what I have read though it does trail behind the native intel driver but not by much. So what if I had a pci-e raid card that had two dedicated pci-e lanes? I would think this would be a definite improvement on the single lane controller on my board. I think at 180MB/s, I must have the crappiest read speed of any SATAIII SSD out there for any platform.

I think I am going to cross my fingers and give the rocketraid 640 a try. If it sucks then I will just send it back to newegg. It is currently half price down from $180 to $90. There are actually a number of reviews from reputable sites that are all positive. One review from tweaktown( I think that is where I read it) shows single SATA II SSD's hitting 200+MB/s using hdtune and 300+ with a single SATA III drive.
It is supposed to be bootable out of the box and have two controllers each with two dedicated pci-e lanes and work well with a single SSD. I will post my results after I get it. If it sucks you can politley say I told you