Hmm, a Thermal Right Ultra Extreme Pure Copper with 2x 12cm Delta fans (2x 252CFM) in Push-pull (http://www.delta.com.tw/product/cp/dcfans/download/pdf/PFB/PFB120x120x38mm.pdf) would be an ultimate contender for air cooling victory, purely performance wise.
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christop
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- Sep 30, 2008
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I got the tt 850 for like 130 and run my 8400 at 4ghz all the time with temp at 39 idle to 44 to 45 full bore. maybe it doesn't qualify as little water but I am happy with it. I have read tons of bad reviews on tt but I haven't had a problem with mine yet..
ok, here is what intresting to be seen at last before calling this product inferior to air cooling,would really like to see it happen (with priority for cooling perfomance, ignore noice abit(
NewbieTechGodII
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- Aug 29, 2006
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I have an Antec 900 (great for cooling, POS for building). I built my system with a 680i, e6300 (now e8500), 2gb ram (now 4gb), 8800gts 640, x-fi platinum (with the front break-out box), 2x wd2500 hdd, a combo media reader/floppy drive, a plextor 755sa dvd burner, and a pcp&c silencer 750 quad sli. my cpu cooler is a true 120 with a scythe 120mm fan.
the 900 has three front drive cages, each with a 120mm fan with h/m/l speed selector. I used several combinations of how and where I installed the hard drives, the break-out box, the combo drive, and dvd burner. in order to maximize the use of two fans in the front, I had to put my three external devices into one drvie cage. I moved the other fan (from the front), to the side panel.
I experimented with layouts and fan speeds and determined that the only fan that made any real difference was the side fan.the front two fans did not help lower temps when speed was increased, so they are set to low. the side fan is set to medium, a good balance between noise and cooling. the top exhaust fan is at either low or medium (I don't remember), and the NB fan is set to about 50% (any higher and it gets very noisy).
the true 120 is setup so that the scythe fan is at the bottom and sending upwards and towards the top exhaust fan. the side fan and the scythe interfere with one another, but all I had to do was to cut-off an inside corner of the side fan housing and all is well.
with this setup, I was able to OC the e6300 to 3.25 stable, and the e8500 to well over 4ghz (I don't remember the exact number). my apologies for I don't remember what the temps were and currently I am running at stock speeds.
I am getting ready to build a new system with an x58/1366 mb, a gulftown cpu (if performance warrants), a 5870 (unless something new comes along), massive amounts of ram (currently looking at 12gb), two 300 velociraptors in raid-0, and a wd 1tb backup, all in a haf-922. I am using the lessons learned from my current build and am adding two 120mm fans to the side to cool the gpu and other components. the cpu cooler is going to be the cm hyper 212 plus.
so I guess the bottom line is that if you're air-cooling, get a case with a big top fan and which can accomodate two or more side fans, and add a kick-ass cpu cooler and you will be all set.
the 900 has three front drive cages, each with a 120mm fan with h/m/l speed selector. I used several combinations of how and where I installed the hard drives, the break-out box, the combo drive, and dvd burner. in order to maximize the use of two fans in the front, I had to put my three external devices into one drvie cage. I moved the other fan (from the front), to the side panel.
I experimented with layouts and fan speeds and determined that the only fan that made any real difference was the side fan.the front two fans did not help lower temps when speed was increased, so they are set to low. the side fan is set to medium, a good balance between noise and cooling. the top exhaust fan is at either low or medium (I don't remember), and the NB fan is set to about 50% (any higher and it gets very noisy).
the true 120 is setup so that the scythe fan is at the bottom and sending upwards and towards the top exhaust fan. the side fan and the scythe interfere with one another, but all I had to do was to cut-off an inside corner of the side fan housing and all is well.
with this setup, I was able to OC the e6300 to 3.25 stable, and the e8500 to well over 4ghz (I don't remember the exact number). my apologies for I don't remember what the temps were and currently I am running at stock speeds.
I am getting ready to build a new system with an x58/1366 mb, a gulftown cpu (if performance warrants), a 5870 (unless something new comes along), massive amounts of ram (currently looking at 12gb), two 300 velociraptors in raid-0, and a wd 1tb backup, all in a haf-922. I am using the lessons learned from my current build and am adding two 120mm fans to the side to cool the gpu and other components. the cpu cooler is going to be the cm hyper 212 plus.
so I guess the bottom line is that if you're air-cooling, get a case with a big top fan and which can accomodate two or more side fans, and add a kick-ass cpu cooler and you will be all set.
- Dec 31, 2007
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[citation][nom]NewbieTechGodII[/nom]I guess the bottom line is that if you're air-cooling, get a case with a big top fan and which can accomodate two or more side fans, and add a kick-ass cpu cooler and you will be all set.[/citation]
You can get excellent CPU cooling using nothing more than two 120mm intakes and one 120mm exhaust so long as your graphics cards exhaust out the rear panel. The reason is direction of flow, you don't need top or side fans to optimize front-to-rear flow over the CPU cooler.
You're speaking of a 5870 however, and those exhaust partially into the case. You can screw up the flow path to compensate, but a better design would be to have an exhuast fan at the exit point of the cards.
This is why "fancy" cards with coolers that are designed mostly for show are an inferior solution to the "stock" design, at least when it comes to cards that have enough rear-panel area to allow full card exhaust outside of the case.
You can get excellent CPU cooling using nothing more than two 120mm intakes and one 120mm exhaust so long as your graphics cards exhaust out the rear panel. The reason is direction of flow, you don't need top or side fans to optimize front-to-rear flow over the CPU cooler.
You're speaking of a 5870 however, and those exhaust partially into the case. You can screw up the flow path to compensate, but a better design would be to have an exhuast fan at the exit point of the cards.
This is why "fancy" cards with coolers that are designed mostly for show are an inferior solution to the "stock" design, at least when it comes to cards that have enough rear-panel area to allow full card exhaust outside of the case.
NewbieTechGodII
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I hear you on the new 5000 series cards. I did read on anandtech that there is a revision 2 cooler out on some cards (like the 5750(?)), that are quieter and cooler to boot.
the only thing running hot is my GPU but there isn't much I can do about it...turning up the fan only makes it noisy. I have to relook at the thermals for the 5000 series and maybe watercool it alone. fermi is out as I understand it's gonna drink more juice and generate a ton more heat- something I ain't wanting...no matter how good it may be.
the only thing running hot is my GPU but there isn't much I can do about it...turning up the fan only makes it noisy. I have to relook at the thermals for the 5000 series and maybe watercool it alone. fermi is out as I understand it's gonna drink more juice and generate a ton more heat- something I ain't wanting...no matter how good it may be.
Self contained liquid cooling is, and always has been poor. True liquid cooling pwns air cooling hands down, in noise and cooling ability. But it does cost a LOT more to do it properly.
A decent air cooler is around $50 or so, a good water pump alone is about $70, radiator is about $50, waterblocks are usually another $50-$100, GPU blocks are another $100, 3 quality 120mm fans are $15 a piece... plus tubing and misc parts it adds up quick. I spent about $350 on my setup.
I have a tripple 120mm radiator and swiftech pump cooling both my 8800 GTS and 4 Ghz E8400. I was able to overclock the 8800 to nearly 800 mhz on liquid, due to the fact that it never gets hot. The loudest component in my system is my Hard Drives.
A decent air cooler is around $50 or so, a good water pump alone is about $70, radiator is about $50, waterblocks are usually another $50-$100, GPU blocks are another $100, 3 quality 120mm fans are $15 a piece... plus tubing and misc parts it adds up quick. I spent about $350 on my setup.
I have a tripple 120mm radiator and swiftech pump cooling both my 8800 GTS and 4 Ghz E8400. I was able to overclock the 8800 to nearly 800 mhz on liquid, due to the fact that it never gets hot. The loudest component in my system is my Hard Drives.
NewbieTechGodII
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I like water-cooling, but balk at its high cost of entry, plus it's one more thing to have to do...at least with my air-cooled system, I can forego cleaning it for months on end and I know it isn't going to fry. forget to check on coolant level and it's bye-bye component! BUT...I am going to look into water-cooling only the GPU. It should be simplier and more effective. The Hyper 212 Plus should be more than enough and the HAF 922 already has three fans in it and I am installing two more.
So a water-cooled GPU would probably make a lot more sense and perhaps doing so would clear the slot under the card that would normally be covered with a conventional air-cooled setup.
So a water-cooled GPU would probably make a lot more sense and perhaps doing so would clear the slot under the card that would normally be covered with a conventional air-cooled setup.
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kevith
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- Feb 28, 2010
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Very nice series of reviews/tests. They only confirm what I´ve been suspecting all along: Unless you buy a very expensive and ellaborated watercooling system, aircooling is always a better, less noisy, cheaper and easier solution. Watercooling - at least when we talk ready-to-use kits -is a gimmick more than anything else.
I´ve never seen any reviews state the opposite.
There is so much snobbing going on when it comes to cooling. Another of the serious sites tested the Noctua NH-D14. They concluded it to be "astonnishing" and "extremely wellperforming". Yet every single graph in the test showed that the Arctic Freezer Pro 64, at 1/3 the price! performed exactly as well. Absolutely no difference what so ever! So I´d say, that it´s the Arctic, that´s truly astonnishing here.
What I would like to see though, is a test of a liquid cooling system, that actually beats the daylight out of any air-system. Just to see, if such a system can be found at all, and what the price of such a system would be.
I´ve never seen any reviews state the opposite.
There is so much snobbing going on when it comes to cooling. Another of the serious sites tested the Noctua NH-D14. They concluded it to be "astonnishing" and "extremely wellperforming". Yet every single graph in the test showed that the Arctic Freezer Pro 64, at 1/3 the price! performed exactly as well. Absolutely no difference what so ever! So I´d say, that it´s the Arctic, that´s truly astonnishing here.
What I would like to see though, is a test of a liquid cooling system, that actually beats the daylight out of any air-system. Just to see, if such a system can be found at all, and what the price of such a system would be.
NewbieTechGodII
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kevith:
i don't trust 99.9% of the 'reviews' or 'review sites' out there because it seems that, no matter the product, no matter the results, and no matter the known issues, the 'reviewed' product always seems to be awarded "editor's choice", or 'gold', or whatever...the problem is that i think almost all of those sites are sponsored by the manufacturers.
basically, i trust [h]ocp, tom's, and anandtech (and consumer reports for non-tech items). all of the others i might go there just to kill some time.
i don't trust 99.9% of the 'reviews' or 'review sites' out there because it seems that, no matter the product, no matter the results, and no matter the known issues, the 'reviewed' product always seems to be awarded "editor's choice", or 'gold', or whatever...the problem is that i think almost all of those sites are sponsored by the manufacturers.
basically, i trust [h]ocp, tom's, and anandtech (and consumer reports for non-tech items). all of the others i might go there just to kill some time.
kevith
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Yeah man, I haven´t read many tests that concluded the tested item to be "crap" or similar.
I also have the two sites you mention as bookmarks in my browser and no others, because like you say, often it´s more a commercial than a review. The cooler review I was referring to is however from Anand:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3268
I think, that perhaps you can divide sites into two categories: The serious proffessional ones, who have managed to come so far that they have their own economy and pay people to write, i.e Tom´s or Anand. And the rest, mostly amateurs, at home in the basement just doing it for the fun of it , who are honored that Asus or Intel are willing to send them some hardware to test. They latter not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them.
The only places you can retrieve some decent information on forums. You have to read a lot though...
And in the real world of course.
I also have the two sites you mention as bookmarks in my browser and no others, because like you say, often it´s more a commercial than a review. The cooler review I was referring to is however from Anand:
http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i=3268
I think, that perhaps you can divide sites into two categories: The serious proffessional ones, who have managed to come so far that they have their own economy and pay people to write, i.e Tom´s or Anand. And the rest, mostly amateurs, at home in the basement just doing it for the fun of it , who are honored that Asus or Intel are willing to send them some hardware to test. They latter not wanting to bite the hand that feeds them.
The only places you can retrieve some decent information on forums. You have to read a lot though...
And in the real world of course.
Galandy
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- Aug 13, 2010
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I run air cooling personally. Intake at the front, out the back. CPU overclocked 800mhz and the GPU up 50/75. CPU has a Zalman CNPS10X with a second fan and idles at 28-30 degrees. GPU is stock cooling with riva pumping the fan to 70% at all times and she idles 46-50 degrees. CPU under load never breaks 45 and GPU never breaks 70. Turning everything except the computer off in the room you can hear how loud this PC is(2 fans in the front, 2 in the back, 2 in the side). However since i have a window air conditioner in the room it seems to cancel out the sound so all is good.
JohnnyLucky
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Interesting article. Results are interesting. Looks like basic, low budget, entry level, liquid cooling systems are not the way to go.
soo-nah-mee
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[citation][nom]thodgson[/nom]It would be good to see a comparison of the H50 with a push-pull fan setup. I have an old-style Antec SLK-B case with a side-port fan (intake) that blows air into and through two push-pull 1500 RPM fans with the H50 radiator sandwiched in-between; these fans blow out, not in. The temp drop from a single fan to dual fans is around 7c degrees.[/citation]I use my H50 is the exact same way and it works great. Setting up the fans the way Corsair recommends is just stupid. It heats up the whole case and bakes the northbridge. Blowing the air out raised my CPU idle temp 1-2 degrees, but cooled the case by 6-7 degrees. I also have one of the top 230mm "exhuast" fans in my case blowing cool air directly down into the H50's radiator fans.
I'm still not sold on the unit itself, but it works well enough to get 3.8GhZ out of my PII X4 955. Next time I'll either go "real" WC, or just go back to air traditional heatsink like a Noctua.
I'm still not sold on the unit itself, but it works well enough to get 3.8GhZ out of my PII X4 955. Next time I'll either go "real" WC, or just go back to air traditional heatsink like a Noctua.
hundredislandsboy
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- Feb 9, 2009
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Thanks. Very useful article for me since I was always wondering which is better and now I know, we all know. Good job.
Im currently using the h50 and have a pushpull setup going. I mounted at the top of my cm stacker 830 because anywhere else didnt work because of the 4x120mm side fans. Im getting great temps and am using it as an intake.
34c idle and 55max and at 4.0ghz on my i5 760 im hittin 36idle and 60max
34c idle and 55max and at 4.0ghz on my i5 760 im hittin 36idle and 60max
Nicely rendered high tech review with graphic backup as proof. Personally I found the article a little confusing and at conclusion was not entirely enlightend.
As one size does not fit all in the case catagory and case stuffing has much to do with how well components are cooled it is always wise to experiment when possible with the orientation of heatsink coolers and case fan setup when building a new rig.
I think most pc builders prefer quiet cooling as a first principle starting point and unless under competition, all else becomes secondary.
Dustime5
As one size does not fit all in the case catagory and case stuffing has much to do with how well components are cooled it is always wise to experiment when possible with the orientation of heatsink coolers and case fan setup when building a new rig.
I think most pc builders prefer quiet cooling as a first principle starting point and unless under competition, all else becomes secondary.
Dustime5
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