Socket 1366 obsolete, SMT a 'gimmick'

[andy5174]

I dont think it's so much the lack of being able to use the features, as the overall price of the platform. How much cheaper was the i5 compared to the i7 at launch?

I believe that 99% of people only have ONE graphic card, so 2x PCI-E 16x on LGA1366 are useless to the majority.

However, LGA1366 is never meant to be the mainstream and NOT for the majority! It is for enthusiast.

Nevertheless, I see no reason to skip LGA1366 if you have a Micro Center nearby.

The existence of Micro Center is why i7-9xx is so popular in the U.S. However, PII-955 is definitely a better buy even compared to an i5 for most of the rest of world.

The reason that I picked up i5 instead is that whole i5 system was merely $21.5625 USD more than the PII-955 system when I was building a new PC.

 

[jsc]

OK. Now we are getting away from things that I know anything about ...

To be honest, I know some engineers at Intel who don't care for SMT at all. They have actually referred to it as a gimmick as well. SMT is more of a bandaid due to the difficulty of coding for multiple CPUs.

How is SMT easier than coding for multiple CPU's?

If I am interpreting this correctly, it is more difficult to code for an SMT dual core CPU than a non-SMT quad core. I don't see this. Either way, you need to break the program execution up into, say, four threads. Seems to me, the quad core is simpler because you do not have the overhead of scheduling threads within a single core.

 

[Scotteq]

So let me get this right...

You and everybody else who bought an i7 over the past year bought it knowing that 1/3rd of the memory was useless with your cpu? How much has DDR3 dropped in price since then btw?

And of course you are all going to be upgrading to 6-cores too right?

Jenny - It's a pretty damned big stretch to go from "..the amount of bandwidth provided by running triple channel is of limited value on the desktop" all the way to "One Third Of Your Memory Is Useless". Hell, you could compare an LGA775 against a dual channel AMD proccy with the integrated controller in typical desktop apps and reach a similar conclusion. That much bandwidth simply isn't needed for most users. On the server side, however, that's a completely different story.

A little hyperbole and a little FUD isn't necessarily a bad thing. But it would be a blessing to maintain at least a tenuous connection with reality.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

At first, everyone was hype about tri channel, and then alot stayed that way when they found out tri channel was grudgingly useless on DT, with some still arguing it as better than dual channel.
Then finally everyone agreed that what Intel had done is what AMD had done with K8, theyd basically made a server chip for DT as well, and for the most part, thats what people agree with now, but not at first, and some of course would argue that AMD doesnt belong yadda yadda, but theyre both doing it, with Intel carrying it 1 step further with tri channel

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

So let me get this right...

You and everybody else who bought an i7 over the past year bought it knowing that 1/3rd of the memory was useless with your cpu? How much has DDR3 dropped in price since then btw?

And of course you are all going to be upgrading to 6-cores too right?

Intelers and Intel fanbois had no idea that the third channel was not going to be of use even though Anandtech posted an article in the preview article to Nehalem showing that a third channel was overkill. AMD Rocks.

Facts would suggest that prices of DDR-3 memory were down to their lowest point over the summer (at the exact point where most people were moving to LGA 1366) but we are AMD fans.. we must ignore facts. We only acknowledge the prices from January to April of 2009 and then from September to now and ignore everything in between. Some people claim we're ignorant (because it is the very definition of what we do) but I say they're wrong. They're just jealous cuz their Intel CPUs don't have integrated awesomeness.

 

[someguy7]

Everybody knew that tripple channel memory would be basically useless. People where not excited about the i7 coming with tripple channel memory at all. People where "excited" that Intel finally had a IMC. People where not thrilled about ddr3 or tripple channel.


Big ups to AMD for including both a DDR2 or DDR3.

 

[cjl]

Tri channel isn't useless for me - I use the additional channel all the time. More accurately, I use the additional memory capacity all the time. I often use over 8GB, and almost no boards other than tri channel offer more than 4 memory slots.

 

[yannifb]

Intelers and Intel fanbois had no idea that the third channel was not going to be of use even though Anandtech posted an article in the preview article to Nehalem showing that a third channel was overkill. AMD Rocks.

Facts would suggest that prices of DDR-3 memory were down to their lowest point over the summer (at the exact point where most people were moving to LGA 1366) but we are AMD fans.. we must ignore facts. We only acknowledge the prices from January to April of 2009 and then from September to now and ignore everything in between. Some people claim we're ignorant (because it is the very definition of what we do) but I say they're wrong. They're just jealous cuz their Intel CPUs don't have integrated awesomeness.

You realize that eventually these ridiculously sarcastic remarks get old and do nothing to support you points?...

 

[one-shot]

OK. Now we are getting away from things that I know anything about ...

How is SMT easier than coding for multiple CPU's?

If I am interpreting this correctly, it is more difficult to code for an SMT dual core CPU than a non-SMT quad core. I don't see this. Either way, you need to break the program execution up into, say, four threads. Seems to me, the quad core is simpler because you do not have the overhead of scheduling threads within a single core.

You misunderstood. I meant SMT uses poor code more efficiently that a standard CPU without SMT. It is my understanding that writing code(good code) for multiple CPU cores isn't easy. SMT does have more overhead, I'm aware of that. Some programs like Solidworks don't take advantage of SMT at all. I think of that as a good thing. The difference with HT on and off is less than three percent.

 

[one-shot]

Tri channel isn't useless for me - I use the additional channel all the time. More accurately, I use the additional memory capacity all the time. I often use over 8GB, and almost no boards other than tri channel offer more than 4 memory slots.

I agree. If a person needs the extra memory capacity, it's an easy choice to choose socket 1366 + X58.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Now if SMT is a gimmick then why does it offer a boost in Virtualization, Video Encoding, Folding@Home as well as several other demanding multi-threaded applications?

It works the way it is intended to work. Therefore handing it the title of "gimmick" hardly seems reasonable.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

You realize that eventually these ridiculously sarcastic remarks get old and do nothing to support you points?...

Try being the rational individual who has to deal with this amount of stupidity on a daily basis. It annoyed you that I did so for 24hrs... but all the statements I was making have been made by individuals here on these boards as well as MaronBatrix and his ilk (yet people take it as literal truth).

 

[yannifb]

Try being the rational individual who has to deal with this amount of stupidity on a daily basis. It annoyed you that I did so for 24hrs... but all the statements I was making have been made by individuals here on these boards as well as MaronBatrix and his ilk (yet people take it as literal truth).

Yeah I guess but not all the AMD supporters are like that.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Yeah I guess but not all the AMD supporters are like that.

Anyone who supports a brand or exhibits brand loyalty based on questionable motives (unreasonable & irrational) deserves the ire of his/her peers.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Elmo, I noticed you yourself prefer electrons, so whats your point heheh

 

[someguy7]

Tri channel isn't useless for me - I use the additional channel all the time. More accurately, I use the additional memory capacity all the time. I often use over 8GB, and almost no boards other than tri channel offer more than 4 memory slots.

P45/55 boards support up to 16gb of ddr2/ddr3 in dual channel.

790 AMD chipset supports 16gb ddr2. I see one board on the egg based of 780g that claims to support 32gb max. Is there a 8gb ram stick? I was not aware of them it so. Or maybe when they do come out the board will run them...but anyhow.

As you said its not the actual channel you're using its the memory capacity. True most boards do only have 4ram slots. But that doesn't mean you are stuck to only run 4x2GB of ram. Perfect example is all the 4 dimm slot boards that support 16gb like the p45/55 and all the AMD boards that do so as well. There are both DDR2 and DDR3 boards with 4 slots and 16gb and the one I have seen with 32.

So again that actual extra channel is basically useless for most desktop use.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

P45/55 boards support up to 16gb of ddr2/ddr3 in dual channel.

790 AMD chipset supports 16gb ddr2. I see one board on the egg based of 780g that claims to support 32gb max. Is there a 8gb ram stick? I was not aware of them it so. Or maybe when they do come out the board will run them...but anyhow.

As you said its not the actual channel you're using its the memory capacity. True most boards do only have 4ram slots. But that doesn't mean you are stuck to only run 4x2GB of ram. Perfect example is all the 4 dimm slot boards that support 16gb like the p45/55 and all the AMD boards that do so as well. There are both DDR2 and DDR3 boards with 4 slots and 16gb and the one I have seen with 32.

So again that actual extra channel is basically useless for most desktop use.

How many high performance 4GB DDR3 sticks do you know of?

Most high performance DDR3 memory comes in 1 and 2GB flavors.

 

[randomizer]

So let me get this right...

You and everybody else who bought an i7 over the past year bought it knowing that 1/3rd of the memory was useless with your cpu? How much has DDR3 dropped in price since then btw?

And of course you are all going to be upgrading to 6-cores too right?

Er... it's not like the third memory channel isn't working I could blow 24GB+ of RAM with ease, but it wouldn't be doing anything useful (tesselate, tesselate, tesselate). 6GB is useful though.

 

[someguy7]

How many high performance 4GB DDR3 sticks do you know of?

Most high performance DDR3 memory comes in 1 and 2GB flavors.

I am aware of that. I was just pointing out that you're not limited to 8gb of ram simply because the board only has 4 dimm slots.

If you're a user than actuallty uses 16gb of ram. I think what ever you're doing to use up all the ram would run better with 16gb of slower ram compared to 8/12gb of ram with tighter timings.

 

[cjl]

I am aware of that. I was just pointing out that you're not limited to 8gb of ram simply because the board only has 4 dimm slots.

If you're a user than actuallty uses 16gb of ram. I think what ever you're doing to use up all the ram would run better with 16gb of slower ram compared to 8/12gb of ram with tighter timings.

True. 4GB sticks are expensive though. If I could get 4GB sticks of DDR3 for a reasonable price, I'd load my board up with 24GB (and my argument would still stand, since you can't fit 24GB on most dual channel consumer boards). I can't though, so for now, 12GB is as good as it gets.

 

[jimmysmitty]

At first, everyone was hype about tri channel, and then alot stayed that way when they found out tri channel was grudgingly useless on DT, with some still arguing it as better than dual channel.
Then finally everyone agreed that what Intel had done is what AMD had done with K8, theyd basically made a server chip for DT as well, and for the most part, thats what people agree with now, but not at first, and some of course would argue that AMD doesnt belong yadda yadda, but theyre both doing it, with Intel carrying it 1 step further with tri channel

The third channel of memory bandwidth is useless to desktop apps, well most of them.

The third channel itself is not since it allows for more maximum memory until they find a way to cram 8-16GB on one stick.

I am aware of that. I was just pointing out that you're not limited to 8gb of ram simply because the board only has 4 dimm slots.

If you're a user than actuallty uses 16gb of ram. I think what ever you're doing to use up all the ram would run better with 16gb of slower ram compared to 8/12gb of ram with tighter timings.

It may be that he also needed to CPUs performance with that RAM. No other single CPU can match a Core i7 in memory bandwidth. So if he needs that bandwidth to transfer files faster between the CPU and memory then he still would have needed to go Core i7 instead of i5/i7 LGA1156.

I was excited about DDR3. But then again I get excited about any PC tech that could potentially enhance our daily computer experience.

 

[armartins]

Mounting my rig now and I've decided to use an i7 920, due to unlocked multiplier, lower core volt to run @4Ghz+ than all 1156 socket processors. I wont use turbo mode at all so FOR ME it's pointless the better turbo mode on 1156 processors... today the cost isn't all that high, since realy good P55 boards are very close in price to very good and reliable X58 motherboards. Comparing to the I7 860 (the fair comparison, since it's nonsence to compare a i7 920 with i5 750, they are diferent lines of products). The price diference in motherboard + processor is about U$150.00 (using asus P6TD Deluxe (hell of a good X58 MB) vs asus good P55 Motherboards). The triple channel if you want you can use 2 slots in dual channel config so it doesn't count as an increase in price. I don't plan to upgrade in the next 2 years and gulftown it's going to be released under Extreme Edition(and "Extreme Price". About all that, what's my point? Today it's realy possible to build a 1366 rig spending less than U$800 with 2000Mhz triple channel DDR3 6gb kit of uber memory.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Mounting my rig now and I've decided to use an i7 920, due to unlocked multiplier, lower core volt to run @4Ghz+ than all 1156 socket processors. I wont use turbo mode at all so FOR ME it's pointless the better turbo mode on 1156 processors... today the cost isn't all that high, since realy good P55 boards are very close in price to very good and reliable X58 motherboards. Comparing to the I7 860 (the fair comparison, since it's nonsence to compare a i7 920 with i5 750, they are diferent lines of products). The price diference in motherboard + processor is about U$150.00 (using asus P6TD Deluxe (hell of a good X58 MB) vs asus good P55 Motherboards). The triple channel if you want you can use 2 slots in dual channel config so it doesn't count as an increase in price. I don't plan to upgrade in the next 2 years and gulftown it's going to be released under Extreme Edition(and "Extreme Price". About all that, what's my point? Today it's realy possible to build a 1366 rig spending less than U$800 with 2000Mhz triple channel DDR3 6gb kit of uber memory.

Kinda old thread already, but thought I'd comment on your "unlocked multi" statement. IIRC only the i7-975 EE has the unlocked multiplier.

 

[armartins]

Sorry by that I mean it's possible to lower the multiplier, so it is unlocked in this sense. It's not possible to raise the multiplier above 21 (or 22). As far as I've read it's not possible to lower (or raise) the multiplier of I7 8xx series.

 

[fazers_on_stun]

Sorry by that I mean it's possible to lower the multiplier, so it is unlocked in this sense. It's not possible to raise the multiplier above 21 (or 22). As far as I've read it's not possible to lower (or raise) the multiplier of I7 8xx series.

Actually there's news today that Intel is going to copy AMD's BE versions and release 'value' CPUs with unlocked multipliers (so that you can oc, not underclock easily ). However I think they're only on the i5 series...