thank you Shivam15 - you have saved me! For 2 days I literally went through about 150 articles on this and tried every suggestion they threw out, but none of them worked. I popped in Google's DNS server in my config, and bamm, I got Windows updates. I have other Windows 7 machines in my house that use my Frontier's router DNS servers, but for some reason this new install of Windows 7 could not use those DNS servers. I hope this helps someone else out as well as I was out of ideas and the laptop is pretty old so I didn't know if I'd be able to install 8.1 on it.