Some Necro Questions

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On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:50:40 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn
<patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

>Actually, once you get more +skills items, there's no need to put more in
>AD. It's also a quite cheap spell, so you can spam it to your heart's
>content, and can put those points in skills that need it...

That's good to keep in mind for my Softcore Summoner. But if I build
Hardcore Summoners in the future, I still want to concentrate on those
being as non item-dependent as possible...

>What skills are you putting points into then, and what do you have where
>now?

I haven't planned things out very well, though I'm not being
completely random either. My Necros in the future will probably be
much better planned than this one is. Right now, this is what he's
all about:

Level 42.
Strength: 85
Dexterity: Base 25
Vitality: 88
Energy: 92

The first time I leveled, I applied 2 points to Energy and Vitality,
and the extra to Energy. The second time I leveled, I applied 2
points to Energy and Vitality, and the extra to Vitality. The third
time I leveled, I applied all 5 points to Strength alone. I've been
trying to keep that pattern up continuously. When I did the fourth
quest of Act 3, which gave me extra points to distribute... I put all
of those into Energy. I expect I might put all of those into Vitality
once I do Hardcore, though.

This is how this guy's skill points are:

(Without items.)
--Summoning--
Skeleton Mastery: 3
Raise Skeleton: 16
Clay Golem: 6
Golem Mastery: 1
Raise Skeletal Mage: 2
Blood Golem: 1
Summon Resist: 1
Iron Golem: 1
Fire Golem: 1
Revive: 1

--Poison & Bone--
Teeth: 1
Bone Armor: 1
Corpse Explosion: Another whopping 1!

I have one point in each of all of the Curses.

Now for the items:
I have a Wormskull Bone Helm which gives me +1 to all Necromancer
skill levels. I also have a wand which gives me +1 to Summoning
skills. A Gargoyle Head I've been using along with that wand gives me
+2 to Bone Spear and a +1 to Poison Explosion and Confuse. I never
use Poison Explosion and Confuse, so that doesn't really matter, but I
have used Bone Spear occasionally.

--Ashley
 
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On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:10:10 +1200, "~misfit~"
<misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:

>I mainly use CE for clearing doorways etc where only one skelly can attack
>and all the rest are standing around with their phalanges in their pelvis'.
>
>Makes for a faster game.

My Corpse Explosion is up to level 3 now, and I still have +1 on my
wand which brings me up to 4 if I switch to using that wand before
casting. I've been doing the first few quests of Nightmare Act 1 and
I must say, it's already coming in handy for some of the larger groups
of mini-monsters, once I've killed some of the minis, and need to get
the big mini-boss in the middle. Since it makes the big mini-boss die
quicker, my Skeletons don't get killed as much, and thus I don't need
to re-raise them as much, thanks to the strategic and non-wreckless
use of CE.

But I think I'm learning that there is a time and place for spells
like Corpse Explosion, and sometimes not.

When there are corpses... I might use Corpse Explosion.

When there are not... I probably won't!
 
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On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:39:47 +1200, "~misfit~"
<misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:

>Ideal (IMO):
>
>St: enough to wear your armour, with enough points saved later in the game
>to hit 118 strength in case you are fortunate enough toget Marrowwalks.
>
>Dex: base
>
>Vit: lots
>
>En: I aim for around 60-70 hard points in SC, maybe less in HC
>
>All other points (except those saved in the Marrowwalk bank) in vit.

I've heard of Marrowalks. I didn't know anything about it really
though, up to this point. Again, not much of an item buff (especially
compared to the people who *really* magic find and get all kinds of
ridiculously good items). Maybe I can start magic-finding some if
this Necro is good enough...

>You can't wear Marrowwalks until clvl 66 so there's no need to start saving
>points for them until you're in your 60s, depending on how many you already
>have. Marrowwalks make a huge difference to a summoner/boner. If there was
>only one unique item I could have for a necro it would be Marrowwalks.
>Homonculus is nice, so is Leoric's but neither are as powerful as
>Marrowwalks. My poor HC necro is lvl 70 and doesn't have any. I have spares
>in SC (west) but nothing in HC.

What all kinds of famous Necro items are there? I really don't know
much. I know a little about the more famous items for other classes,
or items like Stones of Jordan that are famous for everyone... but
even less about Necro items because I haven't been playing them for
very long. Before I started my first Necro, I read an article on the
class and so I was a little wise, and knew not to put my points into
Dexterity each level, and Poison Dagger, and then charge into Andariel
with it. But that was about it. But I'm getting better...

>I would max RS, then SM before putting more points into golems but that's
>me. Also, I only put one hard point in mages. Otherwise fine.

I didn't know how much I'd be using the Mages, but I decided I might
as well put 2 points instead of just 1... because they do seem helpful
sometimes, even though they're not as reliable as my regular
Skeletons. I've heard of a Necro build that focuses on Skeletal
Mages... but I don't know that I'd ever want to try one.

>If you want to improve bone armour at any stage don't put points in it, put
>them in bone wall instead. You get more added defence per point with the
>same mana expenditure. DO NOT put points in bone prison if you're hoping to
>get Marrowwalks and exploit the Marrowwalk feature. (Level 33 bone prison,
>synergises other bone spells *only* if you have no points in bone prison)

That should be useful information to have. I actually wasn't staying
away from Bone Armor on purpose, so it's kind of odd that I ended up
doing so... but I did so just because. I guess I was just too busy
applying skill points elsewhere. However, I put one point into Bone
Prison! Aaahhh! I just did it today, and he's up to level 48 now.

>After building several 1.10 summoners, both SC and HC, I only use amp damage
>and decrep. Tried the others, found the points are more useful elsewhere.
>Decrep mainly for Duriel, Diablo, Baal (stops him cloning or teleing) or
>fana enchanted boss packs. Otherwise amp all the way. When RS and SM are
>maxed and you have points spare depending on how many +skills you have a few
>extra points in amp can be useful to increase it's radius/duration. I find
>CE is good from about slvl 8 or so, including the +skills.

I'm actually falling into a pattern of Amplify Damage and Decrepify,
myself... starting out Nightmare, and even in Act 5 Normal (especially
with Baal and his minions) I found myself using Decrepify more often
(versus throughout most of the rest of Normal, I would use Amplify
Damage sometimes exclusively). Ever since Act 5 it's seemed like the
game required a certain amount of Decrepify if I am playing alone...
so that now I use it almost always in combination with Amplify Damage.
I keep meaning to experiment with some of the other curses like
Attract, to see how good they are... but just haven't gotten around to
it yet.

>Once you get to that stage you can decide if you want to pump a golem, CE,
>an attack (I like a few in bone spirit in older necros) or bone wall for the
>bone shield synergy.

For now I'm leaving the Golems alone. It's probably a good idea for
me right now to max out RS and SM... and then decide about other
things. Gah... if only I could take back that Bone Prison point...
 
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Hi,

*Dividedbyzero <thisis@fake.ihope> wrote in
news:sueu515jh9bgh34gm6kivoqapgf7j4e8a5@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 15:39:47 +1200, "~misfit~"
> <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:

>>All other points (except those saved in the Marrowwalk bank) in vit.
>
> I've heard of Marrowalks. I didn't know anything about it really
> though, up to this point. Again, not much of an item buff (especially
> compared to the people who *really* magic find and get all kinds of
> ridiculously good items). Maybe I can start magic-finding some if
> this Necro is good enough...
>
>>You can't wear Marrowwalks until clvl 66 so there's no need to start
>>saving points for them until you're in your 60s, depending on how many
>>you already have. Marrowwalks make a huge difference to a
>>summoner/boner. If there was only one unique item I could have for a
>>necro it would be Marrowwalks. Homonculus is nice, so is Leoric's but
>>neither are as powerful as Marrowwalks. My poor HC necro is lvl 70 and
>>doesn't have any. I have spares in SC (west) but nothing in HC.
>
> What all kinds of famous Necro items are there? I really don't know
> much. I know a little about the more famous items for other classes,
> or items like Stones of Jordan that are famous for everyone... but
> even less about Necro items because I haven't been playing them for
> very long. Before I started my first Necro, I read an article on the
> class and so I was a little wise, and knew not to put my points into
> Dexterity each level, and Poison Dagger, and then charge into Andariel
> with it. But that was about it. But I'm getting better...
>
dunno if it has been mentionend, but WHITE runeword (DOL, IO) in a wand is
very good and cheap. Throw in a necro head with RHYME (SHAEL, ETH) and you
look really nice.

Regards,

Oliver
 
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In article <d3ohuc.1vs.1@fairground.synaptic.net.nz>,
~misfit~ <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:
>Zamboni wrote:

>> Level 1 Corpse Explosion has a disappointing blast radius and is
>> almost a waste of mana. The Maggot Lair limits the blast even
>> further, so it would be a really lucky shot to hit the next monster
>> in line.
>>
>> Level 30 Corpse Explosion, on the other hand, clears out the entire
>> tunnel. :)
>
>LOL, two extremes. I usually go with around level 8-10 with +skills. Seems
>to do the damage as I only use it in tight areas anyway.

Why only in tight areas? It's also in great open spaces it shines _if_, of
course, you have the right (maximum!) amount of skills invested in it.

It's the best way to clear an encampment of Fallen and their Shamans, for
instance. Or to clear a nasty horde of Flayers. Or to remove a bunch of
Gloams from the map. Etc.

I'll repeat again (I sound like broken record here :): CE deserves to be
maxed! Anything less than that, is a waste of skill points.

Regards,

Patrick.
 
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In article <gsot511dktduftme9of5mfkj0e0tg16tnh@4ax.com>,
*Dividedbyzero <thisis@fake.ihope> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:50:40 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn
><patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
>
>>Actually, once you get more +skills items, there's no need to put more in
>>AD. It's also a quite cheap spell, so you can spam it to your heart's
>>content, and can put those points in skills that need it...
>
>That's good to keep in mind for my Softcore Summoner. But if I build
>Hardcore Summoners in the future, I still want to concentrate on those
>being as non item-dependent as possible...

Well, if it's Hardcore characters you're going to play (why, BTW?), there
are some thing you should keep in mind, because as safe as a Summoning
necro is, it can always be done even safer, and that's more or less what
HC is about...

>>What skills are you putting points into then, and what do you have where
>>now?
>
>I haven't planned things out very well, though I'm not being
>completely random either. My Necros in the future will probably be
>much better planned than this one is. Right now, this is what he's
>all about:
>
>Level 42.
>Strength: 85

Don't raise this anymore, unless you find item you feel you need to equip,
and don't have enough strength for.

>Dexterity: Base 25

Dex is one of those thing you either totally ignore (you're not planning
on making a blocking character, or put a lot of points in (to reach max
block).

So for now, OK.

>Vitality: 88

Hmmm, a bit low. I wonder why...?

>Energy: 92

Whoa! Stop putting points in energy! You don't need it! Every point put
here, could've much better been put in Vit.

Not such a big problemen in SC (if you die there it's an inconvenience),
but much, much more of an issue in HC, of course, since there you need
every point of vit/life you can get.

>The first time I leveled, I applied 2 points to Energy and Vitality,
>and the extra to Energy. The second time I leveled, I applied 2
>points to Energy and Vitality, and the extra to Vitality. The third
>time I leveled, I applied all 5 points to Strength alone. I've been
>trying to keep that pattern up continuously. When I did the fourth
>quest of Act 3, which gave me extra points to distribute... I put all
>of those into Energy. I expect I might put all of those into Vitality
>once I do Hardcore, though.

Yup. But even in SC, don't put any points in Energy. A summoner doesn't
need it. Intead, either put them in Vit, or try to save up some points
instead, so you have some spare stat point if you ever run into a 'godly'
item you feel you should equip. It'd be too bad if you have to wait
several level-ups for it to be equippable.

>This is how this guy's skill points are:
>
>(Without items.)
>--Summoning--
>Skeleton Mastery: 3
>Raise Skeleton: 16
>Clay Golem: 6
>Golem Mastery: 1
>Raise Skeletal Mage: 2
>Blood Golem: 1
>Summon Resist: 1
>Iron Golem: 1
>Fire Golem: 1
>Revive: 1
>
>--Poison & Bone--
>Teeth: 1
>Bone Armor: 1
>Corpse Explosion: Another whopping 1!
>
>I have one point in each of all of the Curses.

Looks workable. A bit too much points in Clay Golem in my opinion, and
like another poster said, you don't need 1 point in every curse, you can
get by fine with just AD and Decepify.

Also, if you're going HC, there is one curse which you might want to max
there: Dim Vision, since HC is all about safety, and DV provides plenty of
'safety' against ranged attackers.

>Now for the items:
>I have a Wormskull Bone Helm which gives me +1 to all Necromancer
>skill levels. I also have a wand which gives me +1 to Summoning
>skills. A Gargoyle Head I've been using along with that wand gives me
>+2 to Bone Spear and a +1 to Poison Explosion and Confuse. I never
>use Poison Explosion and Confuse, so that doesn't really matter, but I
>have used Bone Spear occasionally.

Well, you have some nice stuff already, and are on the right track: you
need stuff with +skills. So keep gambling/cubing amulets, and hope for a
+necro summoning/all skills one. And hope you find other stuff with +
skills. A cheap way to boost your mana would be a pair of Frostburn
gloves. You can trade those for just a few pgems.

My necro used these, until he was turned into my main MF character, and
swapped them for a pair of Chance Guards.

There are also some nice belts which give +% to mana.

Regards,

Patrick.
 
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On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 06:37:25 +0200, Oliver Wenzel <ouuch@t-online.de>
wrote:

>dunno if it has been mentionend, but WHITE runeword (DOL, IO) in a wand is
>very good and cheap. Throw in a necro head with RHYME (SHAEL, ETH) and you
>look really nice.

Hello. I just looked those up and you're right, those RuneWords would
create useful bonuses for me. I'll have to keep those in mind... I've
been collecting and transmuting-up Runes as I've played along. I'll
probably have to seek out some especially, though, as I don't have any
Dol or Shael right now... and am not sure about Io.
 
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On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:11:31 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn
<patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

>Well, if it's Hardcore characters you're going to play (why, BTW?), there
>are some thing you should keep in mind, because as safe as a Summoning
>necro is, it can always be done even safer, and that's more or less what
>HC is about...

I'm not sure yet whether I plan to go mostly over to Hardcore or not.
In a way I like Hardcore better, but it's not as good if I don't have
good people to play with... so right now, as I'm not playing with
anyone steady, I'm playing Softcore. I'm also doing Softcore since
this is my first real attempt at a Necromancer. Why Hardcore? I
guess I just like the challenge... and it encourages me not to get in
a habit of dying.

>>Vitality: 88
>
>Hmmm, a bit low. I wonder why...?
>
>>Energy: 92
>
>Whoa! Stop putting points in energy! You don't need it! Every point put
>here, could've much better been put in Vit.

I've been alternating the extra point between Vitality and Energy for
most levels. I was planning on more Energy for my Softcore character,
so I put all 5 points from my Act 3 quest 4 into Energy.

>Yup. But even in SC, don't put any points in Energy. A summoner doesn't
>need it. Intead, either put them in Vit, or try to save up some points
>instead, so you have some spare stat point if you ever run into a 'godly'
>item you feel you should equip. It'd be too bad if you have to wait
>several level-ups for it to be equippable.

But doesn't Energy determine mana? Summoning requires mana, and I
also use a lot of Curses which require mana to help my Summons
along...

I haven't been in a habit of "saving" stat points, but it would be
nice to not have to wait, or at least not have to wait as long if I'm
ever looking forward to a special item... so you have a good point...
saving some sometimes is probably not a bad idea.

>Looks workable. A bit too much points in Clay Golem in my opinion, and
>like another poster said, you don't need 1 point in every curse, you can
>get by fine with just AD and Decepify.
>
>Also, if you're going HC, there is one curse which you might want to max
>there: Dim Vision, since HC is all about safety, and DV provides plenty of
>'safety' against ranged attackers.

Thanks for the tip; I'll have to try it out. I believe I've used that
curse before... but not extensively. It sounds like the Assassin's
Cloak of Shadows...and I *have* used that, as I've played many
Assassins before (mostly traps).

>Well, you have some nice stuff already, and are on the right track: you
>need stuff with +skills. So keep gambling/cubing amulets, and hope for a
>+necro summoning/all skills one. And hope you find other stuff with +
>skills. A cheap way to boost your mana would be a pair of Frostburn
>gloves. You can trade those for just a few pgems.
>
>My necro used these, until he was turned into my main MF character, and
>swapped them for a pair of Chance Guards.
>
>There are also some nice belts which give +% to mana.

Thanks. I may or may not use this Necro to try and MF with... if it's
possible to MF with a Summoner, I'd sure like to try sometime, and see
what I can find. I, of course, only have about 40 or 50% MF gear
right now I think, which isn't enough to "really" MF. I believe I
found a Gull Dagger one time... I lent it to someone who already had
more MF than me for a Mephisto run, only... it wasn't lending, since
the person decided not to give it back! Note to self: Never, ever do
that again.
 
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~misfit~ wrote:
>
> Watchman wrote:
> > *Dividedbyzero wrote:
> >>
> >> On 13 Apr 2005 14:54:47 -0400, Nick Vargish
> >> <nav+posts@bandersnatch.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> *Dividedbyzero <thisis@fake.ihope> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> I need to either catch him up or get a new one when I get to
> >>>> Nightmare Act 2... any suggestions for which would be best?)
> >>>
> >>> Conventional wisdom is to go with a "Might" aura mercenary, to help
> >>> everyone in your army kill faster. That's what I used for my
> >>> Skellimancer and it has worked very well indeed.
> >>>
> >>> Nick
> >>
> >> I shall try it! I actually dumped my Act 2 Combat at level 21 since
> >> I was getting impatient with leveling him up. After that I bought an
> >> Act 5 Barbarian Mercenary, because I haven't really tried one before
> >> and wanted to see what they're like... I figure I'll hang onto him
> >> until Nightmare Act 2 and get me a new Mercenary then.
> >>
> >
> > Barbarians tend to be better for a Sorceress. The offensive Might Merc
> > is probably your best bet. Still, for something different, there's
> > always the combat Thorns Merc.
>
> Since the advent of the Insight runeword act 2 mercs are the merc of choice
> for a sorc. Act 2 prayer seems to synergise with the meditation aura of
> insight and give really fast mana and life replenish. (Although I use a holy
> freeze merc with Insight for my sorc). Prayer and Insight could be a viable
> option for strafeazons though, no worries about leech at all, you could
> concentrate on resists and/or damage.
> --
> ~misfit~

Once you find a Sol, of course. Perhaps it's just me but I can never
find one when I really need it. Actually, I generally can't find one
period!

Watchman :)
--
'Anyone who isn't confused doesn't really know what's going on'
 
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In article <d3q0nc.3sg.1@fairground.synaptic.net.nz>,
~misfit~ <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote:

>> Why only in tight areas? It's also in great open spaces it shines
>> _if_, of course, you have the right (maximum!) amount of skills
>> invested in it.
>
>Because in tight places the whole of my army can't do their thing. Only the
>ones at the front can attack. Once they've downed a monster or two I hit the
>CE and clear the area so they can all go through the door.

That's the same way I do it. But because CE also works through walls and
around corners (that's been my impression at least) I like it maxed, to
clear more/faster. 😉

>> It's the best way to clear an encampment of Fallen and their Shamans,
>> for instance. Or to clear a nasty horde of Flayers. Or to remove a
>> bunch of Gloams from the map. Etc.
>
>I see where you're coming from but I play summoners. My minions do an
>admirable job of clearing open areas where they can all attack at once. I
>simply don't need CE in these areas so don't see the point in maxing it. I
>pick off shamen with bone spirit while my minions decimate everything else.

Yes, I am also talking about a Summoner. But for me, the skeleton army is
my mobile 'armour', which also does respectable damage, and I have a merc
which is geared towards maximum CB combined with an amount of raw damage
which is as high as possible. Also, after I maxed RS, SM and CE, I started
maxing Bone Spirit, and am now putting new points in Bone Spear.

Why, you ask, all of the above? The answer is simple: to get that first
body as quickly as possible, to start the CE fireworks. A necro can kill
fine without (maxed) CE, because the skeletons are quite durable. However,
he's not very quick at it. It might look quick, but it's peanuts compared
to a necro wielding a maxed CE.

Since you have more than one, try building one, and look at it's killing
speed, especially with big groups.

>> I'll repeat again (I sound like broken record here :): CE deserves to
>> be maxed! Anything less than that, is a waste of skill points.
>
>🙂. Different strokes. This may seem silly to you: I have summoners as my
>MF characters. An upped or eth Skullder's, two Nagels, Chancy's, Goldwrap,
>Wartrav's a Harly, sockets with Ptopazes in and a Gheeds with any other MF
>charms I can find and I can get up to or above 400% MF and survive in hell,
>take Baal and his minions no trouble. It seems to me that when I use CE I
>*very* rarely get any unique items. <Shrug> It could be a coincidence but
>that's what I've noticed.

Yes, my single necro, a summoner, is my main MF character: wears about the
stuff you mention, only not the War Travs: I like the necro's own killing
potential with a synergized Bone Spirit from Marrowalks too much to swap
out the marrows for wartravs. Also, I'm not wearing Nagels, but more
practical resists/mana rings. Total MF of my summoner is now probably
around 380-400% too.

Also, I'm not sure there's a difference between a CE-ing a monsters, or
having it beat to pulp by a skeleton. Also, keep in mind, a monster going
down by CE, is counted as one of your own/personal kills, and activates
any +mana per monster kill modifiers, so you regain some mana.

Regards,

Patrick.
 
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In article <8jkv51lin21a5l113ajasvbemglnior49c@4ax.com>,
*Dividedbyzero <thisis@fake.ihope> wrote:
>On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:11:31 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn

[snip]

>>>Energy: 92
>>
>>Whoa! Stop putting points in energy! You don't need it! Every point put
>>here, could've much better been put in Vit.
>
>I've been alternating the extra point between Vitality and Energy for
>most levels. I was planning on more Energy for my Softcore character,
>so I put all 5 points from my Act 3 quest 4 into Energy.

Well, stop doing that. It's really useless.

>>Yup. But even in SC, don't put any points in Energy. A summoner doesn't
>>need it. Intead, either put them in Vit, or try to save up some points
>>instead, so you have some spare stat point if you ever run into a 'godly'
>>item you feel you should equip. It'd be too bad if you have to wait
>>several level-ups for it to be equippable.
>
>But doesn't Energy determine mana? Summoning requires mana, and I
>also use a lot of Curses which require mana to help my Summons
>along...

Yes, 1 point of energy gives 2 points of mana for a necromancer. But
summoning is only a mana-hog at 1 point: when you first raise your army.
So just buy a mana potion before you start this. After that, curses take
almost no mana at all. My necro could be spamming Decrepify (and therefore
also AD) all day without ever needing to drink a mana pot.

Again: you don't need points in energy, especially not in the beginning of
a character's career. I could understand if you finished that character,
was using it for MFing or something, and put some point in energy for
convenience sakes, but not for 'survival'. You need Vit for that, and
possibly Dex, if you're going for max block.

>I haven't been in a habit of "saving" stat points, but it would be
>nice to not have to wait, or at least not have to wait as long if I'm
>ever looking forward to a special item... so you have a good point...
>saving some sometimes is probably not a bad idea.

Yup, you can quite easily save quite a lot of points, especially in SC.
I'd plan out the points a bit more precise in HC though, if I'd play that.

>>Also, if you're going HC, there is one curse which you might want to max
>>there: Dim Vision, since HC is all about safety, and DV provides plenty of
>>'safety' against ranged attackers.
>
>Thanks for the tip; I'll have to try it out. I believe I've used that
>curse before... but not extensively. It sounds like the Assassin's
>Cloak of Shadows...and I *have* used that, as I've played many
>Assassins before (mostly traps).

Yes, it seems to look like that. A maxed Dim Vision has several times been
described as a 'Sight to behold'. 😉

>>My necro used these, until he was turned into my main MF character, and
>>swapped them for a pair of Chance Guards.
>>
>>There are also some nice belts which give +% to mana.
>
>Thanks. I may or may not use this Necro to try and MF with... if it's
>possible to MF with a Summoner, I'd sure like to try sometime, and see
>what I can find.

It's quite possible, but it's not the best char if your MF strategy is to
do a 'drive-by-shooting' of one of the act bosses. Sorcs are much better
for that.

But if you want to reliably, and quickly clear for instance the Level 85
area's, a Skelliemancer's your man!

>I, of course, only have about 40 or 50% MF gear
>right now I think, which isn't enough to "really" MF. I believe I
>found a Gull Dagger one time... I lent it to someone who already had
>more MF than me for a Mephisto run, only... it wasn't lending, since
>the person decided not to give it back! Note to self: Never, ever do
>that again.

Yeah, if you ever 'lend' something, don't expect to get it back.

Anyhow, Gull Daggers aren't that valuable; if you really wanted one, a few
pgems should get you one...

But for a skelliemancer, I think a good wand as weapon does him much more
good than a Gull Dagger, so I'm personally using an Isted Arm of King
Leoric for that.

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:43:55 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn
<patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

>Yes, 1 point of energy gives 2 points of mana for a necromancer. But
>summoning is only a mana-hog at 1 point: when you first raise your army.
>So just buy a mana potion before you start this. After that, curses take
>almost no mana at all. My necro could be spamming Decrepify (and therefore
>also AD) all day without ever needing to drink a mana pot.

Alright; point well-taken. I've backed off on the Energy and have
been putting my five points into Vitality for a couple levels... and
will probably leave Strength alone for a while. He's up to 52 now,
and in Nightmare Act 3. I've maxed Raise Skeleton and am now focusing
on SM...

>Yup, you can quite easily save quite a lot of points, especially in SC.
>I'd plan out the points a bit more precise in HC though, if I'd play that.

I'm not sure when or if I'll get around to making my Hardcore
Summoner... but yeah, he'd require a lot more planning. But I like
planning... it's just a matter of getting around to being non-lazy
enough to start the character!

>A maxed Dim Vision has several times been
>described as a 'Sight to behold'. 😉

Hmm... that sounds good indeed...

>It's quite possible, but it's not the best char if your MF strategy is to
>do a 'drive-by-shooting' of one of the act bosses. Sorcs are much better
>for that.
>
>But if you want to reliably, and quickly clear for instance the Level 85
>area's, a Skelliemancer's your man!

Good! I'm not one for drive-by-shooting kills. I like to wait and
have to stare at my enemies' health bar mindlessly for a while before
the kill. That's what it's aaall about.

>Yeah, if you ever 'lend' something, don't expect to get it back.
>
>Anyhow, Gull Daggers aren't that valuable; if you really wanted one, a few
>pgems should get you one...

Really? Cool. Though I don't want one right now...

>But for a skelliemancer, I think a good wand as weapon does him much more
>good than a Gull Dagger, so I'm personally using an Isted Arm of King
>Leoric for that.

Yep.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

*Dividedbyzero wrote:
>
> I've been alternating the extra point between Vitality and Energy for
> most levels. I was planning on more Energy for my Softcore character,
> so I put all 5 points from my Act 3 quest 4 into Energy.
>
> >Yup. But even in SC, don't put any points in Energy. A summoner doesn't
> >need it. Intead, either put them in Vit, or try to save up some points
> >instead, so you have some spare stat point if you ever run into a 'godly'
> >item you feel you should equip. It'd be too bad if you have to wait
> >several level-ups for it to be equippable.
>
> But doesn't Energy determine mana? Summoning requires mana, and I
> also use a lot of Curses which require mana to help my Summons
> along...

Your energy requirements can easily be met by your equipment. Wands in
particular can give you enormous amounts of mana.
Even without huge amounts of energy/mana all you really need is some
good mana regeneration, skulls socketed in armour or head gear are good
for that.

Watchman :)
--
'Anyone who isn't confused doesn't really know what's going on'
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:04:54 +0930, Watchman
<stryder@SPAMPHOBICwhyalla.net.au> wrote:

>Your energy requirements can easily be met by your equipment. Wands in
>particular can give you enormous amounts of mana.
>Even without huge amounts of energy/mana all you really need is some
>good mana regeneration, skulls socketed in armour or head gear are good
>for that.

Ah, OK, I see. Very good. I shall keep my eyes peeled for
mana-boosting equipment... though not literally... if I actually kept
my eyes peeled... that would probably hurt. By the way, I agree with
your signature!

I have another question:

If I cast Iron Maiden on those Beetles in Act 2, does the curse return
damage of those Charged Bolts that they emit? What about frost novas
and things like that that some mini-bosses emit when they die? Or
does Iron Maiden apply only to physical damage, like AD?...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:18:01 -0400, *Dividedbyzero wrote:

> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:04:54 +0930, Watchman
> <stryder@SPAMPHOBICwhyalla.net.au> wrote:
>
>>Your energy requirements can easily be met by your equipment. Wands in
>>particular can give you enormous amounts of mana.
>>Even without huge amounts of energy/mana all you really need is some
>>good mana regeneration, skulls socketed in armour or head gear are good
>>for that.
>
> Ah, OK, I see. Very good. I shall keep my eyes peeled for
> mana-boosting equipment... though not literally... if I actually kept
> my eyes peeled... that would probably hurt. By the way, I agree with
> your signature!
>
> I have another question:
>
> If I cast Iron Maiden on those Beetles in Act 2, does the curse return
> damage of those Charged Bolts that they emit? What about frost novas
> and things like that that some mini-bosses emit when they die? Or
> does Iron Maiden apply only to physical damage, like AD?...

IM only applies to physical damage from a melee attack (wouldn't
hurt archers, for example).
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 11:32:09 -0500, Last2Know <grokkalot@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:18:01 -0400, *Dividedbyzero wrote:
*snip*
>> If I cast Iron Maiden on those Beetles in Act 2, does the curse return
>> damage of those Charged Bolts that they emit? What about frost novas
>> and things like that that some mini-bosses emit when they die? Or
>> does Iron Maiden apply only to physical damage, like AD?...
>
>IM only applies to physical damage from a melee attack (wouldn't
>hurt archers, for example).

I see. Thanks for the info.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <mcq261pnv9ae1ti5anffgpjqo1mnkj2fi6@4ax.com>,
*Dividedbyzero <thisis@fake.ihope> wrote:
>On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:43:55 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn
><patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
>
>>Yes, 1 point of energy gives 2 points of mana for a necromancer. But
>>summoning is only a mana-hog at 1 point: when you first raise your army.
>>So just buy a mana potion before you start this. After that, curses take
>>almost no mana at all. My necro could be spamming Decrepify (and therefore
>>also AD) all day without ever needing to drink a mana pot.
>
>Alright; point well-taken. I've backed off on the Energy and have
>been putting my five points into Vitality for a couple levels... and
>will probably leave Strength alone for a while. He's up to 52 now,
>and in Nightmare Act 3. I've maxed Raise Skeleton and am now focusing
>on SM...

Once you have maxed those two, your skelliemancer build is for all intents
and purposes completed. :) The rest of the points is up to personap
preference, and as you can see from the postings here, there are plenty of
very viable variants...

>>Yup, you can quite easily save quite a lot of points, especially in SC.
>>I'd plan out the points a bit more precise in HC though, if I'd play that.
>
>I'm not sure when or if I'll get around to making my Hardcore
>Summoner... but yeah, he'd require a lot more planning. But I like
>planning... it's just a matter of getting around to being non-lazy
>enough to start the character!

Precisely! :)

>>A maxed Dim Vision has several times been
>>described as a 'Sight to behold'. 😉
>
>Hmm... that sounds good indeed...

Keep in mind: I never tried it myself. I personally chose for putting the
spare points on more offensive capabilities of my necro, but if safety's
you goal, it sounds good indeed.

>>It's quite possible, but it's not the best char if your MF strategy is to
>>do a 'drive-by-shooting' of one of the act bosses. Sorcs are much better
>>for that.
>>
>>But if you want to reliably, and quickly clear for instance the Level 85
>>area's, a Skelliemancer's your man!
>
>Good! I'm not one for drive-by-shooting kills. I like to wait and
>have to stare at my enemies' health bar mindlessly for a while before
>the kill. That's what it's aaall about.

Well, you've picked the right character/build then! :)

>>Anyhow, Gull Daggers aren't that valuable; if you really wanted one, a few
>>pgems should get you one...
>
>Really? Cool. Though I don't want one right now...

The number of unique items which actually trade for anything of real value
is surprisingly low. Which is why you can (on SC Eur Ladder anyhow) buy
most of the uniques for a bunch of pgems. But there are of course
exceptions.

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:52:29 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn
<patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

>Once you have maxed those two, your skelliemancer build is for all intents
>and purposes completed. :) The rest of the points is up to personap
>preference, and as you can see from the postings here, there are plenty of
>very viable variants...

Cool. It'll take quite a few more levels to finish maxing SM... but
once I do, this'll be my best Necro accomplishment yet. I'm looking
forward to seeing how well he will do.

>The number of unique items which actually trade for anything of real value
>is surprisingly low. Which is why you can (on SC Eur Ladder anyhow) buy
>most of the uniques for a bunch of pgems. But there are of course
>exceptions.

I don't know a lot about trade values, actually. I'm getting enough
rare and unique items now, along with accumulating a few perfect gems,
that I should be able to start making some trades now though. I was
going to see if I could get someone to give me a 3-socket claw to make
a Malice RuneWord for my Martial Arts Assassin, but as it turned out
one of the Council Members in Nightmare Act 3 dropped one for me... so
that got rid of that problem. But I might want a Gull Dagger someday,
or perhaps something else... I also might want to get a complete
Natalya's set one day for my MA Assassin. I'm getting off-topic. Run
away!!
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d3tqkd.284.1@fairground.synaptic.net.nz>,
~misfit~ <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
>>
>> But if you want to reliably, and quickly clear for instance the Level
>> 85 area's, a Skelliemancer's your man!
>
>I agree. I have a couple of sorcs I've tried for MF and summoner necros.
>Each seem able to carry about the same amount of MF easilly (~400%) and the
>necro can just clear the whole lvl 85 areas on a map. The sorc keeps coming
>up against problems with elemental immunuities. If you don't mind making a
>new game every three minutes then go with a sorc and do "drive by's" (I like
>that). If you want to cruise through the same map for a while, use a
>summoner. (Especially useful if you get a good seed)

My feelings exactly! Though I must say a FO/CL orb is also quite capable
of clearing my most used lvl85 areas (The Pit, River of Flame) quite
efficiently. You just have to pay attention to the immunities of the
monsters, and switch accordingly...

But playing a Sorc is rather new for me...

>> Anyhow, Gull Daggers aren't that valuable; if you really wanted one,
>> a few pgems should get you one...
>
>Funny though, it's one of the few uniques that I've never found.

There are plenty of uniques I've never found, but which nonetheless can be
had for just a few pgems. Strange, but I like it, because that means it's
quite cheap to equip a character with at least mediocre gear...

>> But for a skelliemancer, I think a good wand as weapon does him much
>> more good than a Gull Dagger, so I'm personally using an Isted Arm of
>> King Leoric for that.
>
>I've been contemplating socketing my Leoric's and using my Ist. I can't
>decide between that and Delerium for a merc.

Depends on your need. Is that the necro's merc? If so, I'd not give him a
Delerium helmet, since the effects of that might override your own curses.
If this is a merc for more of a solo/melee type of character, I can quite
believe Delerium is a very nice hat, able to create a lot of
distraction...

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d3tta3.2q4.1@fairground.synaptic.net.nz>,
~misfit~ <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote:

[Maxing CE on a necro]

>> Since you have more than one, try building one, and look at it's
>> killing speed, especially with big groups.
>
>My current MF necro has about 8 points saved at clvl 80-something. I may put
>them all into CE then. It's been a toss-up between CE, a golem, bone spirit
>or bone wall (for the armour/spirit synergy)

Well, I can narrow down the choices a bit: don't put any more points in
any golem. 1 point is plenty. And whether you choose fire of clay, is
totally up to personal preference.

Beyond that, it depends on playing style. More points in Bone Wall is a
defensive path, the other remaining options favour a more offensive style.

I like my necro to be offensive, which is why I maxed CE, Bone Spirit, and
am now putting the final points in Bone Spear. (My necro is currently
lvl92, and lvl93 looks to be possible, if I do some more Baal runs).

>Yeah, I alternate between the Wartravs and my Marrows depending on where I'm
>MFing. (Sometimes it's good to have some low-level items for beginers so,
>when I'm MFing in norm or NM I wear the Wartravs but stick with the Marrows
>in hell usually). I have a Mara's and an Anni to help with resists. I also
>have a +25 res all, 25% MF blue ammy I swap for the Mara's if not in hell.

Now, a Mara's, that'd be something I'd like to find. I'm currently using a
rare +2 necro/resall/some other mods amulet, but a Mara would certainly
best it.

I'm also not much for swapping gear, since I can use all the
stash/backpack space I have to put all the findings in... 😉

>I've found that the only resist that is essential to have maxed for a
>skellimancer is lighning. For those ranged Gloam attacks. Most of the others
>are fine around 60, with poison workable as low as 40. After all, if you're
>playing him right Gloams (and Claw Vipers) are about the only things that
>will hit you with elemental attacks and you don't have 'magic resist' number
>(But of course cab still have "Magic damage reduced by.... or magic absorb).

Don't forget those piercing spearcat-types in Act V... I think they deal
cold damage and their spears are piercing. Very nasty, if you run into a
bad pack doing a Shenk drive-by-shooting. :)

>Maybe fire archers too. My resists are generally Lightning 75, Fire 65-70,
>cold 60 and poison 40. Of course, more is better but if it's a trade-off
>with MF then those are the numbers I work on.

Ranged attacks remain nasty, especially if they target you, and not the
army. Which is why I try to max all my resists, even poison, since that
lessens the needs for taking trips to town. And time saved when MFing,
improves efficiency! :)

>Another point that hasn't been mentioned (I think); switch weapon. I always
>use either Spellsteel or Naj's Puzzler for the teleport charges. Very handy,
>especially if:
>A) You use Leoric's and get bone imprisoned with an Urdar or two or:
>B) You want to get around the Durance/WSK quickly. (I hate being able to see
>the next level and having to walk all the way around, killing monsters).
>C) You learn the fine art of 'Telekilling' bosses.

Yup. Nicest would of course be a nice rare amulet with +2
necro/+all-res/+life/+mana and some teleport charges.

But I also have a Naj's Puzzler on switch. Spellsteel is also nice, but it
has a smaller amount of teleport charges, and the other charges on
Spellsteel are close to useless. Also, since Naj's Puzzler has +1 skill on
it, you lose less skellies/revives when you swap to it.

Enigma would be better though. :)

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

It hurts archers if they are point-blank range (usually only one in a
pack). But fire archer skeletons are still fairly safe from it since
most of their damage is fire damage.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <uqv461trrclltr8132nfgif15rlg8eldmg@4ax.com>,
*Dividedbyzero <thisis@fake.ihope> wrote:
>On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:52:29 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn
><patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:
>
>>Once you have maxed those two, your skelliemancer build is for all intents
>>and purposes completed. :) The rest of the points is up to personap
>>preference, and as you can see from the postings here, there are plenty of
>>very viable variants...
>
>Cool. It'll take quite a few more levels to finish maxing SM... but
>once I do, this'll be my best Necro accomplishment yet. I'm looking
>forward to seeing how well he will do.

He will do fine, though Hell will remain a bit of a struggle, in some
parts in any case, without the better equipment. But you will accumulate
that anyway...

>>The number of unique items which actually trade for anything of real value
>>is surprisingly low. Which is why you can (on SC Eur Ladder anyhow) buy
>>most of the uniques for a bunch of pgems. But there are of course
>>exceptions.
>
>I don't know a lot about trade values, actually. I'm getting enough
>rare and unique items now, along with accumulating a few perfect gems,
>that I should be able to start making some trades now though. I was
>going to see if I could get someone to give me a 3-socket claw to make
>a Malice RuneWord for my Martial Arts Assassin, but as it turned out
>one of the Council Members in Nightmare Act 3 dropped one for me... so
>that got rid of that problem. But I might want a Gull Dagger someday,
>or perhaps something else... I also might want to get a complete
>Natalya's set one day for my MA Assassin. I'm getting off-topic. Run
>away!!

Well, you best bet for getting the stuff you want is to build up a
collection of pgems: just keep any and all gems, of any quality, you find,
put them on a special gem mule, and cube it all up. Before you know,
you're overflowing in pgems, and while the stuff you mention above (Gull
Dagger, Natalya's stuff) trades for just a few pgems, also keep in mind
something like a Harlequin's Crest trades for about a Pul. And a Pul rune
is worth about 20 pgems...

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:00:26 +0200, Patrick Vervoorn
<patrick.vervoorn@NOSPAM.perihelion.demon.nl> wrote:

>He will do fine, though Hell will remain a bit of a struggle, in some
>parts in any case, without the better equipment. But you will accumulate
>that anyway...

Hopefully so. He just finished Act 4 Nightmare, though Act 5 is too
much for him to handle right now at level 60, I think. He should
probably spend some time leveling in Act 4... or doing Diablo runs...
or something to level him up a bit, because he keeps dying in Act 5
outside town. If that doesn't work, it's time to re-think my
strategy...

>Well, you best bet for getting the stuff you want is to build up a
>collection of pgems: just keep any and all gems, of any quality, you find,
>put them on a special gem mule, and cube it all up. Before you know,
>you're overflowing in pgems, and while the stuff you mention above (Gull
>Dagger, Natalya's stuff) trades for just a few pgems, also keep in mind
>something like a Harlequin's Crest trades for about a Pul. And a Pul rune
>is worth about 20 pgems...

Cool. I have two mules right now, one Barbarian for heavy stuff (and
gold) and one Assassin for lighter things (gems and runes?) and also
gold of course. I have maybe about 7 pgems now, so that's not too
bad...
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d40rbg.3oc.1@fairground.synaptic.net.nz>,
~misfit~ <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote:
>> In article <d3tqkd.284.1@fairground.synaptic.net.nz>,
>> ~misfit~ <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>> I've been contemplating socketing my Leoric's and using my Ist. I
>>> can't decide between that and Delerium for a merc.
>>
>> Depends on your need. Is that the necro's merc? If so, I'd not give
>> him a Delerium helmet, since the effects of that might override your
>> own curses. If this is a merc for more of a solo/melee type of
>> character, I can quite believe Delerium is a very nice hat, able to
>> create a lot of distraction...
>
>The Delerium hat would be for my frenzy barbs merc or my zealots merc. Maybe
>even my M'avina's Strafeazon's merc. I'd just like to try it out.

Sounds solid. Oliver Wenzel, who posts here quite regularly, can give you
some quite glowing reviews of a Delerium hat on his Barb's merc.

It's something I also keep in mind for the hat of my merc, but he's
managing quite ok for now with just a Reaper's Toll..

Regards,

Patrick.
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)

In article <d4330v.2c8.1@fairground.synaptic.net.nz>,
~misfit~ <misfit61nz@hooya.co.nz> wrote:
>Patrick Vervoorn wrote:

>> Sounds solid. Oliver Wenzel, who posts here quite regularly, can give
>> you some quite glowing reviews of a Delerium hat on his Barb's merc.
>>
>> It's something I also keep in mind for the hat of my merc, but he's
>> managing quite ok for now with just a Reaper's Toll..
>
>The only thing wrong with giving a Delerium to my frenzy barb's merc is that
>he has Drac's gloves and relies on the life tap quite a bit. I guess
>Delerium would keep over-casting it. It's for that reason that I took the
>Reaper's off the merc, that thing casts all the time. Usually that would be
>a good thing but with Drac's only having a 5% CTC and Reaper's having a 30%
>CTC, life tap never lasted long enough to be of use.

Quite understable, and the reason I won't give a Delerium hat to my
necro's merc, since there I'd also not like it if the Decrepify of
Reaper's Toll overrides my own curses.

For my IK Barb it's however, not a problem, and actually a blessing. But
it all depends on your own, and other, gear...

Regards,

Patrick.